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Diamond Days Discussion

I'm not saying that at all. It's very mature when it comes to themes of emotion and love and family and the like. But that's because that's the central theme of the show. It treats its primary audience (children) with respect in that regard because it's important to teach children about that stuff. What the show ISNT about is the overthrowing of fascist regimes (which yes I love destroying fascism as much as the next guy, but still). Are there themes of imperialism and colonialism in the show, especially with the villains? Of course. But is that what the show is about in the end? No. And therefore we can't expect the show to drop some of its core complements to accommodate that. Given the show's core themes and values, this was a very appropriate way of dealing with the villains.
 
Here's my take. In real life, when tyrants are violently overthrown, the results are usually less than pretty. Granted, most dictators aren't going to peacefully back down like here, but this show has always been really optimistic about that sort of thing and did present a somewhat realistic possibility. Lots of the worst people in human history aren't complete sociopaths and genuinely think that what they're doing is right. When the worldview they have and the world they've created goes against them, causes them unspeakable pain, anguish, and grief, their empire begins crumbling and family turns against them, who's to say they wouldn't change their tone?

We see this very clearly with Yellow and Blue, but it's a bit more subtle with White however. Notice how when Yellow and Blue start talking, she doesn't mind control them or cut them off in any way. She very easily could've at any time, but she doesn't. It's because she's going through a crisis. And likely has been for awhile. White thought of herself as perfect, as God, more or less. She could do no wrong. And then the rebellion happens. 'Aw well, Pink's just playing a game. She'll come around and and we'll put this behind us. She has a history of this kind of thing after all, it's why I took her pearl.' Only it doesn't go that way. Resources are lost, morale plummets, the diamonds she created to reflect her inherent perfection are going through an emotional crisis. For once, reality has slapped her across the face and showed that she and her empire aren't nearly as perfect as she so childishly pretends. So she hides from it all. Up in her tower, it's easy to think that everything is fine, why no she's not sad, that's just Blue again. Silly Blue. Everything is perfect, Yellow and Blue can practically run things themselves! They can't, of course, especially not now, but try telling her that.

Steven's arrival even plays into this initially. It wasn't a problem! It was just a game! Everything is back to normal. But then it wasn't. And here her two other diamonds are telling her that she messed up. Notice that she doesn't blast them immediately. She stays silent. Suffering in silence just like everyone around her in an attempt to appease her own ego. So she doubles down. It's all Pink's fault, she needs to justify herself by surrounding herself with lower lifeforms, nevermind that White did the exact same thing. She's trying to justify her worldview with everything she has left in her system, with every excuse she can think of. She doesn't ruin things, she fixes! Look at how much happier the Crystal Gems are now, under her control! The rest is self evident, Steven undermines both her world view and her understanding of the situation, causing her to throw a tantrum. Steven calls her out and White fells something she hadn't felt sense she created Pink, revealing that her attempt to perfect herself by giving her flaws to her fellow diamonds abd dividing bits of her personality all across gem kind didn't work. And it's the staw that breaks the camel's back. If a real life equivalent happened to someone IRL, who's to say they wouldn't change too?

Now, I'm not saying the diamonds are off the hook now. They aren't. At all. And that's why Season 6 exists. They're still plenty of things that need to be addressed, just be patient. My hopes are high, but we'll likely have to wait another hundred years too see if I'm right.
 
See, the thing is that the fandom always comes up these amazing ideas and theories that Rebecca herself doesn't present to us. If it is true, what you said about White Diamond, why was she never given an arc? We never learnt about what she did during her time as tyrannical dictator, and saying that they killed billions is just an assumption. It's never even alluded to us that they had colonised other sentient occupied worlds as they have never mentioned any other life outside humans and gems. And this is all because Rebecca tried telling a story of love and family through the eyes of a traumatised war veteran.

If the entire story had just been a bunch of normal people in beach city with Steven interacting with them on a day to day basis, it you could make the love and family argument. But people fight and people die in this show and no one ever gets consequenses for anything. Hell, in the context of SU, forced fusions would be our equivalent of the human centipede. Are you going to defend thr doctor in human centipede for what he did? I definately wouldn't.

If you genuinely want a good show about love and family, watch Star vs the Forces of Evil or OK KO. The creators understand that not everyone is redeemable realistically, and even when they are, it's done right. They don't do a complete 180 on their beliefs and have an actual arc done for them. Just look at Ludo, whom I dare say has the best redemption arc of our decade, and he didn't even become good in the end. He's still insane, but you actually understand where he's coming from now.

You can still like the show by all means, I do too. But the show has problems. Bigger ones than most. And it all stems from Rebecca trying to push an agenda.
 
Do either of you guys even realize that Undertale has this whole "nobody has to be killed" memo regardless of whether it's a goofy, gullible skeleton guy or a genocidal flower? Its best ending can only be gotten if nobody (not even genocidal Flowey) is killed. If Undertale was allowed to do that, I don't see any reason why Steven Universe CAN'T do the same (especially since White Diamond was more or less Flowey-like in behavior/background).
 
@Sir Ovens I had just assumed that my theory was ment to be the implication all along and that the audience would only get that once they are older upon revisiting the show in order to add rewatch value. I can see how you think that wouldn't be the case and I understand where you're coming from though.

@Flashlight Flowey had a tragic backstory going in and knew he would have a way to reverse any damage he did. He also didn't remove his emotions on purpose and never committed any nearly as atrocious acts as the Diamonds did. Plus, Flowey still gets punished in all endings while the Diamonds kind of don't.
 
I don't know why people wanted an all out bloodbath. That's not the theme of the show.

Look at Steven's powers. He's defense, healing, and support. The show puts emphasis on mending bonds and growing emotionally.

I like that Steven Universe keeps to this idea and using violence at the last aspect. There is no good vs. evil. There are only different sides and people who think they are right. White diamond isn't evil. To her point of view, everything she does correct. That's why it was possible for her to change her ways.

Whereas things like Naruto, where Naruto constantly complains about the war and wanting to stop the cycle of violence, but the entire premise of the show is set around fighting. The entire culture of the people are all about violence. Does Naruto try to change the culture? Not in anyway that's meaningful. The series ends with a huge destructive all out fight. Pain is the only closest

Steven is trying to change the culture of Homeworld. And I don't like the comparison of the Diamonds to real world tyrants.

I understand people want to see a true revolution, but that's not what's going to happen. The revolution you want isn't real. it's idealized and made up idea of what revolutions are. Even righteous revolutions aren't really righteous nor solved anything.

The French Revolution was extremely bloody and chaotic. Many innocent people died. The American Revolution was not for freedom. The majority of the American people did not want it. It only benefited a very few privileged people and for everyone else there was no difference between before and after.

The Haitian Revolution, one of the most justified revolutions, is a great example. While extremely bloody and violent, the Haitians were justified. However, they were punished extremely. For example, France forbid other colonies from trading with Haiti and punished those who did. All of Haiti's problems today can be traced to how they were punished for winning their revolution.

Let's say, Steven fought White Diamond and shattered her. What happens next? Will everyone fall in line and do what he says? Does he become the new tyrant? Does he go back to earth and leave homeworld to itself? There will be a power vacuum. Will Blue and Yellow agree with this?

The problems with homeworld are two things:

1. Life wiping planets 2. Totalitarianism of Gems

Neither of those two issues will be immediately or directly solved by shattering White Diamond.

But changing white diamond's mind by teaching her that Organic life has value and that it's okay for gems to be themselves puts a direct end to those two problems.
 
I'm ok with White not getting shattered. I'm not ok with her getting off scot-free as a season finale. She did terrible things to a lot of people under the pretense of seeing them as below her. What she did by our standards would be vile and cruel, just look at the cluster. Just because the cluster is ok with being what it is, doesn't mean that what WD did was ok. There should be consequences.

And as for the Flowey comparison, pacifist route had an actual story for Asriel. A reason for me to care if he dies or not. WD has no story save for she made all the Diamonds as aspects of her colour spectrum.
 
I see your point, but that's not what people are on about here. They don't want a bloodbath, they want consequences. But the situation couldn't be solved by violence because of both the reasons you outlined and because of how powerful the diamonds are. I disagree on a few points, the diamonds are evil, just as real world extremists are, but that doesn't mean they can't be redeemed. People were just wishing for more from this redemption. Remember Peridot? That's what people were expecting, not this last minute heel turn White did (which I don't see as last minute but anyways).
 
Sir Ovens said:
I'm ok with White not getting shattered. I'm not ok with her getting off scot-free as a season finale. She did terrible things to a lot of people under the pretense of seeing them as below her. What she did by our standards would be vile and cruel, just look at the cluster. Just because the cluster is ok with being what it is, doesn't mean that what WD did was ok. There should be consequences.

And as for the Flowey comparison, pacifist route had an actual story for Asriel. A reason for me to care if he dies or not. WD has no story save for she made all the Diamonds as aspects of her colour spectrum.
Click to expand...
I still think consequences are coming during season 6, but again, I see your point. Having this as a finale can leave a bad taste in your mouth.
 
Like, there are many ways to write a story with a pacifist ending, just look at Doctor Who. But SU is just not smart about it. Talk no jutsu is the worst way to redeem a character if not done without tons of character development and understanding from both sides. Hell, half the wars The Doctor stops is though blackmail. The other half, he gives a genuine and heartfelt speech about war and conflict that you can actually feel because he's been through those things. He genuinely doesn't want war. Just like Steven. But Rebecca can't write a good speech about the stupidity of conflict, so she just writes a fast one about acceptance of flaws.

If Rebecca was smart, she would have made Steven tell White or show her how she hurt Garnet, the cluster, and every other Gem that feels like they are less than nothing.
 
I can understand the want for consequences. I hope they explore that. (although you can't really arrest her and put her on trail lol) But I don't think White diamond did a last minute heel turn. She gave into Steven's request and helped the corrupted gems and will probably listen to the other diamonds and be nicer, but she was very taken backa and physically confused when she was on Earth. I believe we will see her go through a change. This was the first step.
 
I gotta go with Obsidian on that front honestly. All of the other fusions were like, fun and quirky and full of personality, but Obsidian is just, Intimidating. They should use her more often.
 
Did she mine them tho, or did she "mine" them, know what I mean?

C'mon guys, Zach got banned, someone has to be the lewd one here.
 
Is there much point in making profiles for the new fusions (minus obsidian) when they were on screen for around a minute?
 
Still, I love Obsidian because the other fusions were all just mixed personalities of two or 3 gems. Obsidain was a hulking 5 fusion Gem. She's not even unfeeling or mad like Alexandrite. She's just a tank. A really scary tank.
 
Obsidian is a goddess of war. A force of nature. An ultimate last resort. And I love everything about her. .. or them since Steven's in there, but still.
 
I think steel would be fair. Not to over the top and it would make a nice material for the ship to be made out of.

I mean, obviously it's some magic space metal that's stronger than a planet but still.
 
Oooookay well im making a profile for the Harmony Core. Any weapon that is able to rip the collective consciousness from an entire planet's population deserves a profile.
 
Hmm, yes I have seen some theories about the similarities. Though, I hope it's a new story and they don't just recycle the story from the comics. Also still doesn't explain the new villains motives, if everything is hunky-dory, I don't see it being a villain with a vendetta against the gems.
 
The Harmony Cores are things that were spread across the galaxy and likely other galaxies as a means of subduing organic life so Gems could invade without any resistance. If an alien race got ahold of one it can subdue an entire planet's worth of people
 
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