Steven Universe Upgrade | Tier 3/5 Diamonds

[Emerald]

We have characters that can affect 4-D spaces with corruption and are not Low 2-C just saying

 

[Phsccarvalho]

A hax ability doesn't need concventional attack potency to be tiered, we've always done it that way. If a character can erase a universe away with a snap of their finger, we tier them 3-A.

It depends, there's always the universal power system that can scale that snap of a finger to AP.

But we don't differentiate between the power of someone who can do EE in a car and another EE in a planet.

At least I've never seen in a character tier something like "7-C, 5A with Erase of Existence"

The diamonds being able to tear multiple infinite spaces qualifies them for high 3-A based on our site standards.

Also, this would create a huge outlier if going to AP.

Since the corruption is just a blast of energy/power from each diamond that was intended to destroy the gems and not affect their minds, and not a special ability that corrupts, like Blue has the empathic special power or Yellow has the special power to affect the physique of the gens. It's just a wave of power.

And as we know, just a touch with the little power of a diamond is able to restore a part of a gem's mind, still infinite. And with Steven included.

That would make pure diamond energy an High 3-A, and that's a problem considering Steven.

We have characters that can affect 4-D spaces with corruption and are not Low 2-C just saying

cool

 

[DemiiPowa]

It depends, there's always the universal power system that can scale that snap of a finger to AP.

But we don't differentiate between the power of someone who can do EE in a car and another EE in a planet.

At least I've never seen in a character tier something like "7-C, 5A with Erase of Existence"


Also, this would create a huge outlier if going to AP.

Since the corruption is just a blast of energy/power from each diamond that was intended to destroy the gems and not affect their minds, and not a special ability that corrupts, like Blue has the empathic special power or Yellow has the special power to affect the physique of the gens. It's just a wave of power.

And as we know, just a touch with the little power of a diamond is able to restore a part of a gem's mind, still infinite. And with Steven included.

That would make pure diamond energy an High 3-A, and that's a problem considering Steven.


cool

1. We have several characters tiered from stuff like Tier xyz via Existence Erasure etc.
2. It's not going to Raw Attack Potency, This is based on their ability to tear these dimensions via corruption. If you really wanna get specific, we would qualify that for spatial manipulation based on garnet's statements, but I digress.
3. Yes, we are aware that the diamonds (only with the help of Steven who is also a diamond) is capable of reversing the damage they did. This would actually be used as supporting evidence since these dimensional tears can only be repaired by the diamonds and the diamonds alone.

 

[DemiiPowa]

We have characters that can affect 4-D spaces with corruption and are not Low 2-C just saying

It depends on how they affected it. Are they causing damage to these 4-Dimensional spaces with their corruption? If so, damaging a space-time or 4-D structure, can be used as evidence for Low 2-C.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It depends, there's always the universal power system that can scale that snap of a finger to AP.

But we don't differentiate between the power of someone who can do EE in a car and another EE in a planet.

At least I've never seen in a character tier something like "7-C, 5A with Erase of Existence"


Also, this would create a huge outlier if going to AP.

Since the corruption is just a blast of energy/power from each diamond that was intended to destroy the gems and not affect their minds, and not a special ability that corrupts, like Blue has the empathic special power or Yellow has the special power to affect the physique of the gens. It's just a wave of power.

And as we know, just a touch with the little power of a diamond is able to restore a part of a gem's mind, still infinite. And with Steven included.

That would make pure diamond energy an High 3-A, and that's a problem considering Steven.


cool

How would this be an outlier? The diamonds are the strongest beings in the verse and this only scales to them

 

[Phsccarvalho]

1. We have several characters tiered from stuff like Tier xyz via Existence Erasure etc.

You only have that when it's 4D.

It doesn't make sense to put in the character's tier something like "5-A/4-C via Erasure of Existence"

Because this is hax, and hax is not AP.

Even because if a character resists an EE that erases a car, he also resists an EE that can erase a planet. Because it resists EE 3D hax, and EE's range doesn't affect hax layers unless it's 4D.

2. It's not going to Raw Attack Potency, This is based on their ability to tear these dimensions via corruption. If you really wanna get specific, we would qualify that for spatial manipulation based on garnet's statements, but I digress.

Do you want to argue whether or not it's AP? Because if it's AP, the characters scale, like, everyone who is 6-B becomes High 3-A only. The 6-B itself comes from the beam moving the clouds.

Also, spatial manipulation in an infinite universe would still be a 3D hax with no layers, so it wouldn't make sense to tier it.

Also, if not for raw AP, how would this tier make a difference in this hax? Is it still a 3D Hax with no layers?. Since I don't see how the size affected would affect the layers of the hax.

It would be different if it was Low 2-C via corruption as it would be a 4D hax.

How would this be an outlier? The diamonds are the strongest beings in the verse and this only scales to them

I thought I had some scaling genes for steven. But it looks like it's just the diamonds in the profile, so I don't think so.

 

[Zabazab]

Tearing the fabric of a large number (likely thousands) of infinite 3D spaces is a High 3-A feat. Doing the same thing with reality warping for example would be a High 3-A as well. It's stated as such on the wiki.

Characters or objects that demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

 

[DemiiPowa]

You only have that when it's 4D.

It doesn't make sense to put in the character's tier something like "5-A/4-C via Erasure of Existence"

Because this is hax, and hax is not AP.

Even because if a character resists an EE that erases a car, he also resists an EE that can erase a planet. Because it resists EE 3D hax, and EE's range doesn't affect hax layers unless it's 4D.


Do you want to argue whether or not it's AP? Because if it's AP, the characters scale, like, everyone who is 6-B becomes High 3-A only. The 6-B itself comes from the beam moving the clouds.

Also, spatial manipulation in an infinite universe would still be a 3D hax with no layers, so it wouldn't make sense to tier it.

Also, if not for raw AP, how would this tier make a difference in this hax? Is it still a 3D Hax with no layers?. Since I don't see how the size affected would affect the layers of the hax.

It would be different if it was Low 2-C via corruption as it would be a 4D hax.


I thought I had some scaling genes for steven. But it looks like it's just the diamonds in the profile, so I don't think so.

False, for example Bill Cipher is tiered 3-A (which is a 3-Dimensional feat) for causing a tear in space, and the exact same thing is happening here.
With that being said, I have just proved that a feat does not need to be 4-D for the wiki to tier it using hax. I could find more profiles, but I shouldn't have to when it's already in our rules.

Are you still on the side of disagreement?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

False, for example Bill Cipher is tiered 3-A (which is a 3-Dimensional feat) for causing a tear in space, and the exact same thing is happening here.

This isn't exactly a one-to-one comparison since Bill's tear in space is specifically tiered that way because it was going to destroy "the entire universe".

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This isn't exactly a one-to-one comparison since Bill's tear in space is specifically tiered that way because it was going to destroy "the entire universe".

Is it really that different? The Diamonds do just straight up destroy the infinite sized pocket realm contained within the Gemstones of the Gems they corrupted.

Though maybe a calc of the blast itself should be done as well...

 

[DemiiPowa]

This isn't exactly a one-to-one comparison since Bill's tear in space is specifically tiered that way because it was going to destroy "the entire universe".

I don't think that's really relevant since the feat that we scaled is 3-A and it was achieved via hax, which is the argument against this thread.
All that matters is that his feat that we have recorded was achieved via hax, which we know other characters on the wiki already have, saying we don't is spreading misinformation just for the sake of this particular thread.

 

[DemiiPowa]

Perhaps environmental damage would work better?

@Maverick_Zero_X @Emerald @Phsccarvalho

 

[Ayewale]

Not sure exactly how reliable the steven universe handbook is to give them such a large boost. It wouldn't be entirely out of place since Lapis can just lift all the worlds' oceans and she's an ant in comparison to the diamonds so it seems like a "Possibly [x]" rating is fair. Though how big is the gem homeworld? That could be pretty important.

Also sidenote, but there isn't any steven universe book I can find that's referred to as a handbook.

3-A corruption seems...a bit odd. You're correct that the gemstones are mini pocket dimensions but I don't think that means any mind-hax used against the gems is 3-A. For one thing, I can't find a single source that says that the gemstones are 'minds', neither on the vsbwiki or the steven universe one. The OP even says that when a gem is shattered, their consciousness remains, so we all agree that their minds aren't connected to their gemstones, but the pocket dimensions are, but then we draw a bridge between the three anyways?

Additionally, there isn't any proof that a corrupted gem has its' pocket dimension affected, we seemingly assumed so. A tear in the fabric of a mind =/= they're destroying our pocket dimension, they're referring to how it damages your mind (as seen by how they compare it to an arm) to a child.

Although in Demii's defense, the insuinations that hax abilities can't be tiered are really funny lol. Smurf hax has always been a thing and this would qualify, full-stop.

So let's say Possibly 5-C and Possibly 3-A with Corruption Hax, sure.

 

[ByAsura]

It's from Steven Universe: End of An Era, as you can see here.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not sure exactly how reliable the steven universe handbook is to give them such a large boost. It wouldn't be entirely out of place since Lapis can just lift all the worlds' oceans and she's an ant in comparison to the diamonds so it seems like a "Possibly [x]" rating is fair. Though how big is the gem homeworld? That could be pretty important.

Earth size is safe seeing as it is noted as having a gravity close to that of Earth's

Also sidenote, but there isn't any steven universe book I can find that's referred to as a handbook.

Its from Steven Universe: End of An Era

 

[DemiiPowa]

Not sure exactly how reliable the steven universe handbook is to give them such a large boost. It wouldn't be entirely out of place since Lapis can just lift all the worlds' oceans and she's an ant in comparison to the diamonds so it seems like a "Possibly [x]" rating is fair. Though how big is the gem homeworld? That could be pretty important.

Also sidenote, but there isn't any steven universe book I can find that's referred to as a handbook.

3-A corruption seems...a bit odd. You're correct that the gemstones are mini pocket dimensions but I don't think that means any mind-hax used against the gems is 3-A. For one thing, I can't find a single source that says that the gemstones are 'minds', neither on the vsbwiki or the steven universe one. The OP even says that when a gem is shattered, their consciousness remains, so we all agree that their minds aren't connected to their gemstones, but the pocket dimensions are, but then we draw a bridge between the three anyways?

Additionally, there isn't any proof that a corrupted gem has its' pocket dimension affected, we seemingly assumed so. A tear in the fabric of a mind =/= they're destroying our pocket dimension, they're referring to how it damages your mind (as seen by how they compare it to an arm) to a child.

Although in Demii's defense, the insuinations that hax abilities can't be tiered are really funny lol. Smurf hax has always been a thing and this would qualify, full-stop.

So let's say Possibly 5-C and Possibly 3-A with Corruption Hax, sure.

The book is called "Steven Universe: End of an Era"

The proposal isnt working under the assumption that they gain high 3-A from mind hax, its from tearing multiple infinite spaces. The conciousness remains scattered across the gem, meaning that if you broke it into a million pieces, you only broke the "body", the gems mind is just scattered across those shards. The existence of the pocket dimension is based on the gem itself, completely eradicating the gem would be the only way to be rid of the pocket dimension.

A tear in the fabric of their mind is the pocket dimension as garnet states that pearls mind is her pocket dimension. It doesnt have to destroy it, its still tearing the fabric of possibly hundreds of infinitely sized dimensions.

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters or objects that demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

We don't tier based strictly on completely destroying these dimensions. The diamonds are doing this to hundreds of gems at once, mind you tearing something by definition is "to separate parts of or pull apart by force."

 

[ByAsura]

I found the book on webarchive.

It's worth noting that the people who uploaded it to other sites cut out certain parts. They are canon if not contradicted, but more of a series bible.

I think it's still acceptable with canon rules, but maybe we should leave a note on the pages and/or verse page if that's absolutely necessary.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I found the book on webarchive.

It's worth noting that the person that uploaded it to reddit, tumblr, etc cut out certain parts. They are canon if not contradicted, but more of a series bible.

I think it's still acceptable with canon rules, but maybe we should leave a note on the pages and/or verse page if that's absolutely necessary.

A note should be fine if need be, its just that in the case of the stuff in the OP, the timeline from the book is unfortunately the only information we have in regards to the origins of the Diamonds as the series was canceled before an in-show backstory was given, so the stuff from the book is kinda all we have to work with

Albeit the actual combat applicable AP of the Corrupting Light should be well above 5-B but still

 

[Ayewale]

I found the book on webarchive.

It's worth noting that the people who uploaded it to other sites cut out certain parts. They are canon if not contradicted, but more of a series bible.

I think it's still acceptable with canon rules, but maybe we should leave a note on the pages and/or verse page if that's absolutely necessary.

Then the rating should be a 'Possibly' without question.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Nah, me think a "Likely" is better

 

[Zabazab]

At least 5-C, likely High 3-A with Corrupting Light sounds good imo.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Thoughts about Gems having High 3-A reality warping within their Gemstone and Temple Room?

 

[Zabazab]

Amethyst, Garnet, and Pearl don't display any reality warping within their rooms, and Sardonyx's is iffy. Steven/Rose's is closer to creation.

Does Pearl show off any reality warping in her mind in the comic? She doesn't show any in A Single Pale Rose.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Amethyst, Garnet, and Pearl don't display any reality warping within their rooms, and Sardonyx's is iffy. Steven/Rose's is closer to creation.

Does Pearl show off any reality warping in her mind in the comic? She doesn't show any in A Single Pale Rose.

I mean, just because they dont show it directly doesnt mean they dont have it, its explicitly an ability that every Gem has

 

[Zabazab]

No I mean what is the feat/statement that suggests reality warping within their minds and/or rooms.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No I mean what is the feat/statement that suggests reality warping within their minds and/or rooms.

I'm almost positive theres a statement about it in A Single Pale Rose, but theres some definitive stuff in the comics about it

Their rooms in the Temple are just outward manifestations of their pocket realities generated by the Temple

 

[Zabazab]

I'm almost positive theres a statement about it in A Single Pale Rose, but theres some definitive stuff in the comics about it

Their rooms in the Temple are just outward manifestations of their pocket realities generated by the Temple

If it's the comics then I agree, you probably just gotta grab a scan.

Where is it stated that the rooms are just manifestations of their pocket reality/mind? Pearl's room and mind look very different, and Steven's room looks identical to Rose's.

 

[DemiiPowa]

If it's the comics then I agree, you probably just gotta grab a scan.

Where is it stated that the rooms are just manifestations of their pocket reality/mind? Pearl's room and mind look very different, and Steven's room looks identical to Rose's.

Im not really sure the rooms are the same as the dimensions, so I dont really have a take on that front.

 

[DemiiPowa]

bump

 

[DemiiPowa]

bump

 

[DemiiPowa]

Bump
Been busy, this thread needs to reach a conclusion

 

[TheShape03]

I agree with 5-C physically and High 3-A with Corruption.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

I agree with the 5-C physicals and am neutral on the Hugh 3-A stuff, leaning towards agree.

 

[DemiiPowa]

Considering this CRT has been ongoing for approximately 2 weeks, and no more votes/activity has been cast for over 48 hours, the concluding stats should be applied based on the talleys collected.

• Likely 5-C (Caused the destruction of Homeworld, just by emerging)
• High 3-A with Corruption (Released the Corrupting Light, which was capable of corrupting nearly every gem on earth, and by extension, damaging every respective gem's pocket dimension).

This CRT can be closed, less someone has something noteworthy to add.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, sure.

 

[ByAsura]

I've reopened this.

Do any profiles need to be unlocked?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

the concluding stats should be applied based on the talleys collected.

And how many votes did the staff have? I only saw two voting. And one doesn't seem to have changed his mind about High 3-A.

 

[DemiiPowa]

And how many votes did the staff have? I only saw two voting. And one doesn't seem to have changed his mind about High 3-A.

That one staff member is in the minority while most people agree that it makes sense. Are we going to overturn an entire set of votes because one staff member is on the fence about it, meanwhile another one at least agrees with one of the ratings?

Not to mention their argument has already been proven false based on the fact they claimed we dont tier hax, which we in fact do and multiple people have said that we do.

 

[DemiiPowa]

I've reopened this.

Do any profiles need to be unlocked?

I don't think so.
Blue Diamond, White Diamond, Yellow Diamond, and Pink Diamond are already unlocked.

 

[ByAsura]

Alright then. I'll re-lock this once the edits are made.

I'd do them myself, but I'm working on other stuff.