Steven Universe is so back

[Sparkive]

Monster Steven is restrained by the cluster's arm, not sparring with it. Similarly, he breaks the water chains holding him down; no striking or anything. I'm not sure how we'd go about calculating these lifting strength feats, but again, neither Lapis or the Cluster would be scaling to AP here, but LS.

The case of Lapis is maybe as you say, but the Cluster... Peridot directly says that Steven is stronger than the Cluster, the problem is not the action, but the mention
That Steven Monster surpasses the Cluster is considered within the verse as something greater than being superior to diamonds.

 

[StretchSebe]

The case of Lapis is maybe as you say, but the Cluster... Peridot directly says that Steven is stronger than the Cluster, the problem is not the action, but the mention
That Steven Monster surpasses the Cluster is considered within the verse as something greater than being superior to diamonds.

I see what you mean. That's fair enough then. Could probably extrapolate that to physical stats for monster Steven's key then (as I think it already is)

 

[Sparkive]

Another problem, White Diamond's light beams, which supposedly scale to those levels... don't do that much damage, it only controls others (and I imagine that they are the same, considering that we use them to scale the reaction of pink steven)
that is, all existing feats of the other gems are an antifeat to this being AP

That attack isn't even exclusive to diamond, as long as she controlled someone she can make them do it too, and if this is AP, what prevents White Diamond from controlling others and making them come together in one even more powerful attack? Does it mean that White Diamond can give those AP levels to other gems? whereas it is literally the same light attacks

This is what I think:
By itself the corrupting light is nothing, it's a group attack and they probably can't reach those levels otherwise.

 

[Sparkive]

Also agree that the Cluster itself wouldn't necessarily disprove Diamond potential ap with light-based attacks. Even if the Diamond's physical ap isn't as high as their light based attacks, Corrupting Light is still akin to a DBZ ki attack in which the fighter generates ap of far greater 'power level' through energy than they would be at physically as I mentioned earlier.

Like dragonball? I didn't know Steven Universe had a UES
I don't recall anything like that ever being hinted at in the series.

Even so, they have a universal pocket dimension on their gems,
to assume a UES, is to assume that things like this are generated by the energy itself, that is to say that they would all scale to universal (or so I think, I don't handle that concept completely well)

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

• Why moon level? this should have been calculated, or at least linked to something that says the basic level of similar feats

• The emergence of the four Diamonds split Gem Homeworld in half
• Splitting a planet is half is Small Planet level (5.0811706477439e+30 Joules)
• 5.0811706477439e+30 / 4 = 1.2702927e+30 Joules (303 Exatons of TNT, which is Moon level)

 

[Zabazab]

Like dragonball? I didn't know Steven Universe had a UES
I don't recall anything like that ever being hinted at in the series.

The comparison is that Ki attacks, such as the Kamehameha, are stronger than punching.

Anyways, while White herself hasn't shown it before, Yellow can use her her energy that alters physical forms as an energy attack (every occassion prior to Homeworld Bound), as can Blue use her energy that alters emotions as an energy attack (Reunited Part 2, and Change Your Mind Part 1).

And if White Diamond were to be considered as having no AP in any energy attacks, then the Corrupting Light's AP value would be divided by 2 rather than 3, since it's just the Diamonds using all 3 of their powers (Forms, Emotions, Minds) at once.

 

[StretchSebe]

Another problem, White Diamond's light beams, which supposedly scale to those levels... don't do that much damage, it only controls others (and I imagine that they are the same, considering that we use them to scale the reaction of pink steven)
that is, all existing feats of the other gems are an antifeat to this being AP

That attack isn't even exclusive to diamond, as long as she controlled someone she can make them do it too, and if this is AP, what prevents White Diamond from controlling others and making them come together in one even more powerful attack? Does it mean that White Diamond can give those AP levels to other gems? whereas it is literally the same light attacks

We're discussing the attack in terms of speed, not ap. Probably wouldn't be high ap given this light attack is an ability (not destroying anything) but still: It's light that Steven Pink reacts and blocks consistently. In controlling a gem's mind, we see she can make them physically mimic her movements, and even reproduce said light beams.

I get what you mean with her controlling other gem's to maximize effectiveness of this ability, but the face remains it is more about the speed of this feat, and that the mind control, light-based attack is unique to her even if she can temporarily grant the ability to fire mind controlling light beams to those she is controlling.

This is what I think:
By itself the corrupting light is nothing, it's a group attack and they probably can't reach those levels otherwise.

Also, maybe.

In talking about how White Diamond's mind control is a light-based attack, the Corrupting Light could similarly just be an ability thing. It seems far more insidious still. Intending to obliterate gems suggests Corrupting Light far more than just an ability in the form of a light attack.

 

[Sparkive]

• The emergence of the four Diamonds split Gem Homeworld in half
• Splitting a planet is half is Small Planet level (5.0811706477439e+30 Joules)
• 5.0811706477439e+30 / 4 = 1.2702927e+30 Joules (303 Exatons of TNT, which is Moon level)

It's still a problem
A normal user will not be able to know how they got to that level
To find out, go to "common feat reference" (which wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that it's not linked to any of the diamond profiles, so if you don't know it exists, then you will not know what to do).

 

[StretchSebe]

Like dragonball? I didn't know Steven Universe had a UES
I don't recall anything like that ever being hinted at in the series.

I've been meaning that given how much anime inspired many things in the series - from visual references to the combat itself - that it could be understood as similar to DBZ, not that there is a UES or that it's an explicit thing they took.

The comparison is that Ki attacks, such as the Kamehameha, are stronger than punching.

Like this, yeah.

Anyways, while White herself hasn't shown it before, Yellow can use her her energy that alters physical forms as an energy attack (every occassion prior to Homeworld Bound), as can Blue use her energy that alters emotions as an energy attack (Reunited Part 2, and Change Your Mind Part 1).

And if White Diamond were to be considered as having no AP in any energy attacks, then the Corrupting Light's AP value would be divided by 2 rather than 3, since it's just the Diamonds using all 3 of their powers (Forms, Emotions, Minds) at once.

I am starting to question if we could use inverse square law for it, and as the Corrupting Light does likely boil down to being a combo of their abilities to affect forms, emotions, and minds given corrupted gems struggle with all three of those things. Just applying Occam's Razor. Still, speed

 

[Zabazab]

Speed is the most important part yeah. It currently scales to all Diamond's energy attacks (good), and should scale to Pink Steven's combat or reaction speed (probably combat? since everything slows down to a crawl for Pink Steven).

It's debatable if it scales to WBY Diamonds reaction/combat speed, since Blue and Yellow got hit by White's beams. Though you can argue that since they had just made a heartfelt appeal to White, they were caught off-guard by the attack. White also seemed more annoyed by Steven blocking her attacks than shocked, which I feel she would be if he blocked an attack millions of times faster than her own speed.

 

[Sparkive]

Anyways, while White herself hasn't shown it before, Yellow can use her her energy that alters physical forms as an energy attack (every occassion prior to Homeworld Bound), as can Blue use her energy that alters emotions as an energy attack (Reunited Part 2, and Change Your Mind Part 1).

Yellow: You mean the energy that explicitly destabilizes the physical form of the gems, which by automatic is not really AP and that is copied with gem technology (destabilizers that use the same energy)
Blue: You mean the energy balls, which although they are energy, are loaded with Blue's feelings, and that Steven can survive with or without a shield even when he was physically inferior to the diamonds themselves (Steven ended up defeated with a yellow footstep even through his shield)

And if White Diamond were to be considered as having no AP in any energy attacks, then the Corrupting Light's AP value would be divided by 2 rather than 3, since it's just the Diamonds using all 3 of their powers (Forms, Emotions, Minds) at once.

That is not the point, the point is that if one of them cannot reach such high levels with its own corrupting light, it is possible that the other 2 (supposedly weaker) could do the same

We're discussing the attack in terms of speed, not ap. Probably wouldn't be high ap given this light attack is an ability (not destroying anything) but still: It's light that Steven Pink reacts and blocks consistently. In controlling a gem's mind, we see she can make them physically mimic her movements, and even reproduce said light beams.

I get what you mean with her controlling other gem's to maximize effectiveness of this ability, but the face remains it is more about the speed of this feat, and that the mind control, light-based attack is unique to her even if she can temporarily grant the ability to fire mind controlling light beams to those she is controlling.

I have no problems with speed, it is exaggeratedly faster than everything, but in this case there is nothing against it (in fact Lapislazuli being able to reach the mother planet flying supports enormous speeds in the verse)
.....
....
...
..
.
I understand the idea, but I can't agree with AP (it's not that my opinion matters much, I'm just another user)

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

It's still a problem
A normal user will not be able to know how they got to that level
To find out, go to "common feat reference" (which wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that it's not linked to any of the diamond profiles, so if you don't know it exists, then you will not know what to do).

Yeah the upgrade was admittedly applied poorly. Linking this blog on the profiles should fix those issues.

Dawn of the Diamonds (Steven Universe)

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[StretchSebe]

Yellow: You mean the energy that explicitly destabilizes the physical form of the gems, which by automatic is not really AP and that is copied with gem technology (destabilizers that use the same energy)
Blue: You mean the energy balls, which although they are energy, are loaded with Blue's feelings, and that Steven can survive with or without a shield even when he was physically inferior to the diamonds themselves (Steven ended up defeated with a yellow footstep even through his shield)

That is not the point, the point is that if one of them cannot reach such high levels with its own corrupting light, it is possible that the other 2 (supposedly weaker) could do the same


I have no problems with speed, it is exaggeratedly faster than everything, but in this case there is nothing against it (in fact Lapislazuli being able to reach the mother planet flying supports enormous speeds in the verse)
.....
....
...
..
.
I understand the idea, but I can't agree with AP (it's not that my opinion matters much, I'm just another user)

You've been very helpful, and I value your opinion. You've made compelling points, and I've become skeptical of the Corrupting Light being something usable for AP when it's likely just the combination of their abilities. I think we're just getting mixed up with discussing speed and AP together with the attack at this point.

 

[StretchSebe]

Yeah the upgrade was admittedly applied poorly. Linking this blog on the profiles should fix those issues.

Dawn of the Diamonds (Steven Universe)

vsbattles.fandom.com

This though. I was completely unaware of this thread!

I mean, I mentioned earlier about the comics being type 2 canon (each canon so long as they coincide with the show's canon). I was also completely unaware of them destroying homeworld when they emerged too. Physical stats wise, this is a great upgrade that I see has already been applied to their pages. Remember to link it when you can for the moon level stats, as it's been accepted!

Bit iffy on them being 3-A cause they can affect the gem's infinite inner worlds specifically without UES, but eh. 'Possibly 3-A' is a decent qualifier given it is through their generated energy attacks/abilities.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

What y’all waffling about anyways

 

[RandomGuy2345]

What y’all waffling about anyways

Something beyond our comprehension.

 

[StretchSebe]

That other thread at this point. But mainly a bunch of recalculations for non-diamond feats beforehand.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Seems like things are taken care of. I wonder what’s next

 

[StretchSebe]

The case of Lapis is maybe as you say, but the Cluster... Peridot directly says that Steven is stronger than the Cluster, the problem is not the action, but the mention
That Steven Monster surpasses the Cluster is considered within the verse as something greater than being superior to diamonds.

Yeah the upgrade was admittedly applied poorly. Linking this blog on the profiles should fix those issues.

Dawn of the Diamonds (Steven Universe)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Oh wait a minute.

Currently The Cluster is still only 'At least High 6-A, likely higher | 5-A,' keys being 'partially formed' and 'fully formed'.

Wouldn't the statement by Peridot - who we know is a reliable source of information and assessment on the Cluster - mean that the Cluster scales above the Diamonds in physical stats in partial formation? Shouldn't the partially formed key then be changed to 'At least 5-C, likely higher?' Or maybe even outright 'Low 5-B?'

Probably a stupid question with how much larger it is than the Diamonds, and the new calcs putting Diamonds at moon level being brought up in the thread, but still.

 

[Zabazab]

Wouldn't the statement by Peridot - who we know is a reliable source of information and assessment on the Cluster - mean that the Cluster scales above the Diamonds in physical stats in partial formation? Shouldn't the partially formed key then be changed to 'At least 5-C, likely higher?' Or maybe even outright 'Low 5-B?'

Possibly, it depends on how you interpret Peridot's words, given that it's A) an implication, and B) could be a lifting strength thing rather than an AP thing. Not too bothered about it really.

If the Semi-Formed Cluster was tier 5, then the Diamond Warships and Obsidian would also be tier 5. With Pink Steven scaling above everyone apart from Fully-Formed Cluster(?)

I wonder what’s next

When the show's scaling is finalized, the comics will probably looked at for any further scaling or feats.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

When the show's scaling is finalized, the comics will probably looked at for any further scaling or feats.

Noted.
What’s left for the show?

 

[StretchSebe]

Noted.
What’s left for the show?

Currently, I'm sitting on a number of calculations and recalculations.

Would send them to the calculations evaluation thread, or even run them by some members of the calc group, but for the former they seem backlogged already (have had to bump two Punch-Out!! calculations), and I don't want to be annoying if they are currently going through backlogged evaluations.

Not sure, but basically we've re-established a decent amount of the calculations. Still have some more work to do for certain older calculations, and editing content to be better substantiated (sources and links primarily).

 

[Sparkive]

Yeah the upgrade was admittedly applied poorly. Linking this blog on the profiles should fix those issues.

Dawn of the Diamonds (Steven Universe)

vsbattles.fandom.com

I just read the thread, and how it was applied. Why was High 6-B removed to put a Likely? Shouldn't it be High 6-B, Likely 5-C (Explanation) High 3-A with corruption ? (The discussion of whether the corrupting light is valid as AP we are just having it now, it should not have been eliminated)

Why is there so much Naruto in the explanations?

WHITE
(Alongside the other three Diamonds, was capable of splitting apart Homeworld just by emerging.[1] The Diamonds are considered to be by far the most powerful Gems in existence, so greatly superior to others that even the thought of a Diamond getting "poofed" is considered laughable. While the exact degree of the Diamonds' superiority to other Gems is unknown, the fact that any other Gem "poofing" them is seen as a joke suggests the difference could be absolutely massive. Stated by Blue and Yellow to be "different" from them with the implication that she is far above them in power, and was able to quite easily overcome both of them simultaneously and turn them into mindless puppets)


BLUE
(Alongside the other three Diamonds, was capable of splitting apart Homeworld just by emerging.[1] Exchanged blows with Yellow Diamond. It's implied that the Diamonds are much more powerful by regular Gems by an unknown degree. Additionally, WoG implies that Diamonds have never been "poofed" before, which may imply that no known Gem has matched their might

YELLOW
(Alongside the other three Diamonds, was capable of splitting apart Homeworld just by emerging.[1] Exchanged blows with Blue Diamond and was visually deconstructing her. The Diamonds are considered to be by far the most powerful Gems in existence, so greatly superior to others that even the thought of a Diamond getting "poofed" is considered laughable. Almost certainly more powerful than White Light, who was able to take multiple hits from Alexandrite and continue fighting at full efficiency. Punched through her Gem Warship, which should be much more durable than Peridot's, which could easily take the power of 4 Laser Light Cannons and Opal's Arrows)

• In the case of Yellow, most of it is probably old justifications that have been piled up with the new ones, but they take up a lot of unnecessary space (and could be formatted differently, because it feels like reading a user opinion, rather than a part of a profile)

Also links, please!!!!! (at least what the authors said should be able to be confirmed)

To be fair, I should tell this the person who applied the previous thread, but since it's not here...

By the way, thanks for that.
The level is understandable now

 

[Sparkive]

Wouldn't the statement by Peridot - who we know is a reliable source of information and assessment on the Cluster - mean that the Cluster scales above the Diamonds in physical stats in partial formation? Shouldn't the partially formed key then be changed to 'At least 5-C, likely higher?' Or maybe even outright 'Low 5-B?'

Being honest I have problems with using that "Steven Universe handbook" (Steven Universe: End of an Era) as canon, considering that the book itself is based on showing "concept art, storyboards and background painting" and not be made by Rebecca Sugar, athe image used of that is a Plot Chart...
and things there have been changed:
But overall it seems to be what makes the most sense.

And yes, if the Diamonds are 5-C and the Cluster is higher than them, then the Cluster scale to At least 5-C

 

[Sparkive]

You've been very helpful, and I value your opinion.

Thank you,
I mean, I was saying it referring to the fact that in the end my opinion remains just one more opinion that does not need to be shared by others and that it was just one more among those who are discussing...
but that you say something like that... it means a lot to me

 

[Sparkive]

And that makes 3 messages in a row... or wait, now it's 4

 

[Phsccarvalho]

And that makes 3 messages in a row... or wait, now it's 4

Don't worry, I do this all the time in another verse thread.

 

[Zabazab]

End of an Era is still usable I believe, other things like the Diamond's ages are used on the profile. Given that the image shows a planet being split as the the Diamonds emerge, and Homeworld is split in the show, the rating should be fine.

 

[StretchSebe]

Bit iffy on them being 3-A cause they can affect the gem's infinite inner worlds specifically without UES, but eh. 'Possibly 3-A' is a decent qualifier given it is through their generated energy attacks/abilities.

Update: On Season 5 Episode 18 in the rewatch.

Steven goes inside Pearl's gem to find her phone she physically stored in there. He sees the inner pearl sorting other things she physically stored and can access whenever she wants in a little pocket dimension. Then he goes in again to go to her gem into an earlier memory on earth. Then goes in again for ptsd. And again. And into Pearl Quartz gem...

So there is an episode which canonically depicts gem inner worlds possibly being infinite in scale. Real wacky space stuff going on there.

 

[Zabazab]

There is also the comics which outright state that a Gem's mind and pocket dimension are infinite. The show portraying it too was cool.

 

[StretchSebe]

Been having this calc on my mind, interested in re-calculating. Anyone know the episode it refers to? I'm thinking the Keystone Motel episode due to her creating a climate inside the room, but 'the betrayl' makes me think it's season 5. Got to that episode but not sure the exact scene it was in reference to. Dead links are(n't) fun

Regardless, I'm going to calculate Ruby vaporizing the pool from the Motel episode lol

 

[Zabazab]

Been having this calc on my mind, interested in re-calculating. Anyone know the episode it refers to? I'm thinking the Keystone Motel episode due to her creating a climate inside the room, but 'the betrayl' makes me think it's season 5. Got to that episode but not sure the exact scene it was in reference to. Dead links are(n't) fun

Sapphire's anger/depression causes it to snow in Rose's Fountain in Season 5, "Now We're Only Falling Apart", should be pretty early in as it's before Pearl gives the PD backstory.

 

[StretchSebe]

Sapphire's anger/depression causes it to snow in Rose's Fountain in Season 5, "Now We're Only Falling Apart", should be pretty early in as it's before Pearl gives the PD backstory.

Thank you for clarifying. Will go back to that and recalculate.

 

[Zabazab]

Should be this.

 

[StretchSebe]

Should be this.

Thanks!

Yeah the upgrade was admittedly applied poorly. Linking this blog on the profiles should fix those issues.

Dawn of the Diamonds (Steven Universe)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also, just saw this scene in the show. Forgot it was in the show, and not just in a handbook or something.

 

[StretchSebe]

Connie takes a hit from one of the Diamond's ship arms alongside Peridot. She may be a bit higher than Wall level, at least in durability like how she has 'likely Relativistic combat and reaction speed,' and 'Lifting Strength Class 50' (I know she has Island level for dura, but the reasoning doesn't include this, only using Pearl, Jasper, and Topaz as example, and only through Connie using hers and Rose Quartz's sword).

 

[Zabazab]

Being above wall level is very possible, but she didn't actually take a hit from the Diamond Mech. Peridot got hit and was launched away, while Connie who was holding ontonthe flying Peridot dropped straight downbto be caught by Obsidian.

 

[StretchSebe]

Fair point.

 

[Zabazab]

Thinking Connie might deserve instinctive action given that in Mindful Education (S4 E4), she breaks a kids arm unintentionally when he brushed past her because "[her] training instincts kicked in, [she] just reacted".

 

[StretchSebe]

Thinking Connie might deserve instinctive action given that in Mindful Education (S4 E4), she breaks a kids arm unintentionally when he brushed past her because "[her] training instincts kicked in, [she] just reacted".

Maybe. Also, in watching the SU movie I had three takeaways. Main one was Connie easily slicing a car in half, but when bringing it to the official calculation discussion thread, I was told that such a feat is too inconsistent to meaningfully calculate unfortunately (with regard to the mixture of materials beyond the main steel encasing).

Second one was that I was reminded that all of Steven Universe takes place within a galaxy, and we get a vague sense of range between homeworld and earth when he beams back. He beams past two solar systems at least; there are a few planets in a scene which could be indicative of him beaming past a third. Could help with range by using average solar system lengths for Corrupting Light speed.

Last one was just the injector explosion lol