DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (2024–2025) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

[XXBenShapiroXx]

'Get real buddy' immediately makes me want to stop engaging with you btw

 

[BlackDarkness679]

As for Cell, this isn't a counter arguement, my point was characters can be far stronger than the series hypes them to be.

in manga Cell isnt above solar system level, Toei on the other hand with what counts canon to their version of the series has way more stuff, Toei Frieza is as powerful as he is cuz of z movies and the fact the anime adds stuff manga doesnt, despite some claims that are adapted from manga

We scale GT Pan to low multi, she doesn't exactly have many statements saying she can blow up universes.

I assume she has scaling from others, which some characters have in dragon ball over claims

Besides, attacking this point about Toei scaling works against you, as Kai, which has tons of Toei scaling and statements, just got accepted as being canon to Super.

DBZ Kai is them trying to cut Toei filler and be as close as it can to the manga, dunno why you even bring it up as if relevant

Me understanding the reality of scaling doesn't always perfectly line up with the narrative of a story isn't me being too generous, it's power scaling 101.

So we making a mostly supersonic verse to be FTL cuz of a one time feat? Kengan Ashura i remember in a social media group argued FTL by statements of such, despite the series going on its way to explain in detail its impossible to dodge even a bullet by your speed alone and they gotta predict them in advance

If you wanna do that for DBS, why not for others in similar cases

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Pretty sure Hit improved his Time Skip a bunch since the U6 tournament, sorta was already doing so in his fight with Goku.

Goku needed kaioken on him back then, since then he used only blue, so moot

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Goku needed kaioken on him bsck then, since then he used only blue, so moot

Do you seriously not know that Goku with just Blue is stronger than he was with KKx10 in his rematch with Hit? That's some of the most basic Super scaling.

Even worse, do you think Goku didn't get 10x stronger from U6 to the end of ToP?

Do you think he just suddenly can't use Kaioken despite doing so onscreen with higher multipliers than x10?

I genuinely can't take anything you say seriously now if you are trying to argue what I think you are arguing.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

in manga Cell isnt above solar system level, Toei on the other hand with what counts canon to their version of the series has way more stuff, Toei Frieza is as powerful as he is cuz of z movies and the fact the anime adds stuff manga doesnt, despite some claims that are adapted from manga

I assume she has scaling from others, which some characters have in dragon ball over claims

DBZ Kai is them trying to cut Toei filler and be as close as it can to the manga, dunno why you even bring it up as if relevant

So we making a mostly supersonic verse to be FTL cuz of a one time feat? Kengan Ashura i remember in a social media group argued FTL by statements of such, despite the series going on its way to explain in detail its impossible to dodge even a bullet by your speed alone and they gotta predict them in advance

If you wanna do that for DBS, why not for others in similar cases

You didn't make any arguement here, this is just a bunch of yap and then a ridiculous comparison that's not at all alike to the situation with DBS immeasurable speed scaling.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Shockwaves crossing differently axis of time being regarded as mftl is an indictment on our standards, not the feat.

If it was immeasurable one would have brought up these once to argue higher speeds

Whis is super inconsistent with how fast he actually is, saying he is going top speed only to perform a much faster speed feat later. He is inconsistent because he never really tries, and a bad metric for capping speed.

If he is inconsistent, dunno why you mention him, that shows his immeasurable speeds arent clear cut, let alone the verse

Hit can increase the potency of his timeskip, it working on immeasurable characters just means he is capable of increasing that potency to that level. Besides, Jiren was hyper fcking casual and in the anime Hit's time skip explicitly works on people stronger than him as far back as the U6 fight.

Jiren wasnt so casual, he clearly shown he put effort to even move from his best move, also earlier in their battle Hit used time skip a bunch of times to escape his punches, yet you wanna tell me mister "above time itself" is consistent in that regard

You have yet to provide proper examples of that go against these notions, as the ones you have provided so far have pretty easy explanations.

Your arent clear cut and if they were so good, you would see threads with them brought up for upgrade attempts, so you just reaching in this instance

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You didn't make any arguement here, this is just a bunch of yap and then a ridiculous comparison that's not at all alike to the situation with DBS immeasurable speed scaling.

You saying no no no basically and others dont have an argument isnt making yours look any better, but keep telling yourself that

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The fact you didnt even reply properly on those means you cant argue anything against them

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

If it was immeasurable one would have brought up these once to argue higher speeds

If he is inconsistent, dunno why you mention him, that shows his immeasurable speeds arent clear cut, let alone the verse

Jiren wasnt so casual, he clearly shown he put effort to even move from his best move, also earlier in their battle Hit used time skip a bunch of times to escape his punches, yet you wanna tell me mister "above time itself" is consistent in that regard

Your arent clear cut and if they were so good, you would see threads with them brought up for upgrade attempts, so you just reaching in this instance

People have tried to argue the shockwaves to those speeds. Stupid site standards prevented those arguments from going through.

Whis being inconsistent with what he says his top speed is doesn't suddenly mean he didn't perform those feats. That's a ridiculous arguement.

Jiren was holding back massively throughout 99% of the tournament. He didn't actually use his full power until episode 129. So him mildly struggling, struggling less than he did UI Goku mind you, isn't at all a counter arguement.

People have been trying to make immeasurable speed a thing for DBS forever, and changing standards and loose assertions of outliers have made it near impossible. Hell the supporters just had a general discussion thread going over the arguements against immeasurable speed being an outlier.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

You saying no no no basically and others dont have an argument isnt making yours look any better, but keep telling yourself that

I have responded and debunked literally every single point you've made at every turn.

 

[ZeNoviceArtist]

Did you guys know that characters die in death battle?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

The fact you didnt even reply properly on those means you cant argue anything against them

Uhh, no, I didn't reply because there was nothing there to reply to. You didn't bring up any counter arguement for my point on how characters can scale above what the story hypes them up to be, you brought Kai not having filler when it blatantly does and still includes things like Kid Buu being the strongest Buu, and then you made some random comparisons that's not at all alike to what we've been discussing.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Did you guys know that characters die in death battle?

Liar

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Do you seriously not know that Goku with just Blue is stronger than he was with KKx10 in his rematch with Hit? That's some of the most basic Super scaling.

First of all im aware goku gets stronger over the series, its irrelevant in regards to Hit whom by the tournament of power was surpassed by most, even sparking zero what if story had Frieza beat Hit in ToP

Even worse, do you think Goku didn't get 10x stronger from U6 to the end of ToP?

Nowhere i claimed that, you just make up things and then associate them on me out of your mind

Do you think he just suddenly can't use Kaioken despite doing so onscreen with higher multipliers than x10?

Only time he ever did since then was in goku black saga, then a bunch of times with Jiren

I genuinely can't take anything you say seriously now if you are trying to argue what I think you are arguing.

I cant take you seriously by thinking the cast is immeasurable by one feat vs several instances, once again supersonic verses are FTL by one feat only yes or no? Following your logic you got over here

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

First of all im aware goku gets stronger over the series, its irrelevant in regards to Hit whom by the tournament of power was surpassed by most, even sparking zero what if story had Frieza beat Hit in ToP

Nowhere i claimed that, you just make up things and then associate them on me out of your mind

Only time he ever did since then was in goku black saga, then a bunch of times with Jiren

I cant take you seriously by thinking the cast is immeasurable by one feat vs several instances, once again supersonic verses are FTL by one feat only yes or no? Following your logic you got over here

Did you just use unironically use Sparking Zero as an arguement?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I have responded and debunked literally every single point you've made at every turn.

This gaslighting is what either Bowser or Eggman needs to win their upcoming fights by how much you give

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Did you guys know that characters die in death battle?

Lies! Scooby Doo vs Courage showed me that they're simply knocked unconscious!

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

This gaslighting is what either Bowser or Eggman needs to win their upcoming fights by how much you give

I'm not gaslighting, you are just genuinely making nonsensical arguements and being snide about it.

I'm going to stop replying so we stop clogging up the thread. If you want to keep arguing about this go to the Dragon Ball discussion thread.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

People have tried to argue the shockwaves to those speeds. Stupid site standards prevented those arguments from going through.

Proof of these, if i see the link to such a thing, you have a point, till then no

Whis being inconsistent with what he says his top speed is doesn't suddenly mean he didn't perform those feats. That's a ridiculous arguement.

He has clear limits how fast he can go, the ones i mentioned arent to be brushed off just cuz you wanna believe in this agenda, even if that is true, its travel speed, not reaction or combat which dragon ball differentiate

Jiren was holding back massively throughout 99% of the tournament. He didn't actually use his full power until episode 129. So him mildly struggling, struggling less than he did UI Goku mind you, isn't at all a counter arguement.

Being casual means he didnt try ever till he clearly shown in that episode you pointed, he wasnt as casual to literally all, Hit fight he clearly put effort to break out, unlike the headcanon he was being Saitama in all of it except near end

People have been trying to make immeasurable speed a thing for DBS forever, and changing standards and loose assertions of outliers have made it near impossible. Hell the supporters just had a general discussion thread going over the arguements against immeasurable speed being an outlier.

Proof as above said or its just yapping

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Proof of these, if i see the link to such a thing, you have a point, till then no

He has clear limits how fast he can go, the ones i mentioned arent to be brushed off just cuz you wanna believe in this agenda, even if that is true, its travel speed, not reaction or combat which dragon ball differentiate

Being casual means he didnt try ever till he clearly shown in that episode you pointed, he wasnt as casual to literally all, Hit fight he clearly put effort to break out, unlike the headcanon he was being Saitama in all of it except near end

Proof as above said or its just yapping

Dude I'm done slogging through your arguements and insults. Stop clogging the thread and drop it.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Uhh, no, I didn't reply because there was nothing there to reply to. You didn't bring up any counter arguement for my point on how characters can scale above what the story hypes them up to be, you brought Kai not having filler when it blatantly does and still includes things like Kid Buu being the strongest Buu, and then you made some random comparisons that's not at all alike to what we've been discussing.

Yeah sure, you got nothing to counter, stop with these excuses, i have been a part of the vs community since 2015, you think i never seen those arguing like you before across internet? You got no arguments on those simple as that

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I'm not gaslighting, you are just genuinely making nonsensical arguements and being snide about it.

I'm going to stop replying so we stop clogging up the thread. If you want to keep arguing about this go to the Dragon Ball discussion thread.

Im good, i aint involving myself with their fans or group, its a pain to debate DB

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Yeah sure, you got nothing to counter, stop with these excuses, i have been a part of the vs community since 2015, you think i never seen those arguing like you before across internet? You got no arguments on those simple as that

I could counter them, as I've done with literally every single one of your other points, but you'd just respond with more nonsense stonewall and it'd never end. I'll just cut my losses and decide arguing with someone who tried to use a Sparking Zero what-if as an arguement is a waste of time.

Im good, i aint involving myself with their fans or group, its a pain to debate DB

Good, then you agree to stop talking about it.

 

[Executor_N0]

What even is or isn't an outlier? Is there any agreed upon standard?

There is none because it's really impossible to be. Even calling it an "outlier" is more of a misnomer because it's not like statistics just ignores outliers as if they never happened with no explanation, they are either accepted as something that happened, but not a representative of the "average" population, a mistake that was wrongly input, or something that is not a part of what you want to measure, but is there nevertheless.

The notion that you can just ignore something that happened without any care about it as an "outlier" is one of the many things VS Debating took from science that if you were to apply to science, you would be laughed at. (Like, one of the many things you do with outliers is try to explain how it happened, how it ended up on your sample to begin it, and find a source for it, while here Outliers just exist to be ignored as if they never existed).

So it's just a Vs Debating term that exists on the many "anyone has a different definition of what is and what counts" states like a tiering system.

 

[TartaChocholate]

When's the Final Fantasy and Legend of Zelda film adaptations damn

For FF, there's Advent Children and Kingslaive. Advent Children's visuals and animation certainly left its mark in people's minds (like 90% of Sephiroth's trailer in Smash were Advent Children iconic scenes and memes). I think Square Enix is also cautios with movies after what happened with Spirits Within.

Regarding Zelda, isn't a Live Action one on the works?

 

[TartaChocholate]

Any MU that based on a fad (e.g Among Us, Fall Guys, Palworld, etc).

Does FF7 Advent Children count? (the animation has aged pretty well and looks better than certain "modern day" animations).

Or creepy pasta MU's like Sonic.exe vs underfell sans or something.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I could counter them, as I've done with literally every single one of your other points

Except you didnt as you claim, stop the gaslighting to yourself

but you'd just respond with more nonsense stonewall and it'd never end.

Says you? Imagine arguing immeasurable dragon ball, still no answer to my question, further shows you argue on DB only out of sheer bias and favoritism lol

I'll just cut my losses and decide arguing with someone who tried to use a Sparking Zero what-if as an arguement is a waste of time.

Sparking Zero tells the same story as the canon, with some what if timelines being existent from choices you make to alter it, so this argument to slander me over is lame from you and desperate

Good, then you agree to stop talking about it.

I agree you cant debate as you claim it, if you wanna stop talking over it, be my guests, cuz i have other things to do tjen waste my time with you anymore

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Except you didnt as you claim, stop the gaslighting to yourself

Says you? Imagine arguing immeasurable dragon ball, still no answer to my question, further shows you argue on DB only out of sheer bias and favoritism lol

Sparking Zero tells the same story as the canon, with some what if timelines being existent from choices you make to alter it, so this argument to slander me over is lame from you and desperate

I agree you cant debate as you claim it, if you wanna stop talking over it, be my guests, cuz i have other things to do tjen waste my time with you anymore

Sparking Zero or it's what-ifs aren't canon lmao

You can't be an ass for no reason and also have bad arguements, but yeah, happy to finally stop wasting time arguing with a brick wall.

 

[DoggoTron]

What the hell happened

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

What the hell happened

3 counts of felony tomfoolery

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Sparking Zero or it's what-ifs aren't canon lmao

Neither is Toei DB or GT, yet ate brought up, so moot point and nitpicking at its finest

You can't be an ass for no reason and also have bad arguements.

I wasnt and didnt have, you on the other hand another story, now you dont put and end to it? Why you continue it?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Neither is Toei DB or GT, yet ate brought up, so moot point and nitpicking at its finest

I wasnt and didnt have, you on the other hand another story, now you dont put and end to it? Why you continue it?

 

[Dust_Collector]

alright time for this buffoonery to cease

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Question: can Bowser or Eggman match Ganon's sweet dancing skills? Because that's one advantage he's got over them.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You dont need to show your face, the pfp is enough for that

 

[koopa3144]

Question: can Bowser or Eggman match Ganon's sweet dancing skills? Because that's one advantage he's got over them.

 

[Tipper17]

Eggman and Metal Sonic seeing the community consensus change from them being stomped to being insanely debatable even if they lose the episode:

Who knew shit can change when folks actually do research on the other side

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

You dont need to show your face, the pfp is enough for that

Malding

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Who knew shit can change when folks actually do research on the other side

I had no idea the community consensus beforehand was Bowser winning soundly.

 

[Theuser789]

Who knew shit can change when folks actually do research on the other side

We truly were goofy doomers in the end.