DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

[DoggoTron]

High outer bowser sweep

 

[TMaakkonen]

The OST for this episode? Eh...I guess it's fitting since they're both villains that have caused plenty of game overs for gamers, but it's definitely not my favorite name in the world.

I like the name of this commission from a few years ago more personally.

Im bit opposite. HBF is bit cheesy.

I kinda like "Game Over" because Bowser & Eggman are THE video game badguys, so it asserts dominance. Tho I guess Sephiroth & Ganondorf arguably challenge them.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I'm expecting Bowser to win, but I'm still rooting for the doctor regardless of the fact. Glory to the Eggman Empire.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Im bit opposite. HBF is bit cheesy.

I kinda like "Game Over" because Bowser & Eggman are THE video game badguys, so it asserts dominance. Tho I guess Sephiroth & Ganondorf arguably challenge them.

Ganondorf maybe can stand wiith them, but while Sephiroth is popular he's nowhere near ther level of iconic.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

That would just mean Dypso is immeasurable since he scales to beginning of ToP Blue level characters like Hit and Ultimate Gohan, who are > SSBKK10 Goku from the U6 Tournament, so that's just not an inconsistency.

What is to you an inconsistency or outlier if to you none of that is....lets also scale spiderman for his fights with Hulk or Batman to the battles with Superman

 

[Dust_Collector]

Ganondorf maybe can stand wiith them, but while Sephiroth is popular he's nowhere near ther level of iconic.

I'd say Sephiroth is def iconic enough to hang with Bowser and Eggman (And a few years ago before the movies and all that I'd argue moreso than Eggman)

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

What is to you an inconsistency or outlier if to you none of that is....lets also scale spiderman for his fights with Hulk or Batman to the battles with Superman

Lmao no this is a disingenuous comparison.

There is no inconsistency with Dyspo, you never argued why.

That's pretty clearly fcking different than Spiderman fighting off Hulk one time in Spiderman issue 1456.5, but getting one shot a dozen other times.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

In fairness: Dyspo is a character who's so quick that not even Zeno, a character who's attacks can destroy the cosmology in mere moments and could perceive Goku's fight with Hit, can keep track of his speed.

I dont count Zeno instance as anything serious, since other characters later are clearly beyond Dyspo power, if anything Zeno doesnt have the reactions of some characters in order to see them, plus angels were capable to see it just fine unlike him

Now that's not me saying Dyspo is faster than GoDs or Angels obviously, but what I'm saying is that Dyspo's speed is nothing to scoff at.

Yeah but at the same time they brag he surpassed light in speed, not saying he is only FTL now by that, cuz even characters with trillion times are simply put as above light by a lot for example

But you would think a speedster like Dyspo would be bragged as more then just that, like say he is instantenous or match Goku IT by speed, even later since Hit vs Goku, he didnt get anything of such magnitude for speed

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

When's the Final Fantasy and Legend of Zelda film adaptations damn

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I'd say Sephiroth is def iconic enough to hang with Bowser and Eggman (And a few years ago before the movies and all that I'd argue moreso than Eggman)

Let's not forget the reaction to Sephiroth's inclusion in Smash Ultimate. Even people who didn't know anything about FF7 heard that theme playing and immediately screamed that Sephiroth was in Smash.

So he's a pretty iconic villain, even to casuals and non FF fans.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I dont count Zeno instance as anything serious, since other characters later are clearly beyond Dyspo power, if anything Zeno doesnt have the reactions of some characters in order to see them, plus angels were capable to see it just fine unlike him

Yeah but at the same time they brag he surpassed light in speed, not saying he is only FTL now by that, cuz even characters with trillion times are simply put as above light by a lot for example

But you would think a speedster like Dyspo would be bragged as more then just that, like say he is instantenous or match Goku IT by speed, even later since Hit vs Goku, he didnt get anything of such magnitude for speed

This is a foolishness argument. Next to no writer actually knows wtf infinite/immeasurable speed even means. Holding them to the standard of 'they need to announce it by name' is unrealistic.

Dyspo was hyped up as being much faster than sound and light, which is objectively true. So there is no inconsistency, just writers not knowing how strong their characters are.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

There is no inconsistency with Dyspo, you never argued why.

I did now and you just give too much benefit of the doubt in scaling

That's pretty clearly fcking different than Spiderman fighting off Hulk one time in Spiderman issue 1456.5, but getting one shot a dozen other times.

If you think comic book characters fought each other once in over 90+ you tripping, Namor fought Hulk a lot yet not many scale him to the green goliath, what makes you think Goku performing an immeasurable speed feat once and with no other comparable feats of him and others is more fair lol

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I did now and you just give too much benefit of the doubt in scaling

If you think comic book characters fought each other once in over 90+ you tripping, Namor fought Hulk a lot yet not many scale him to the green goliath, what makes you think Goku performing an immeasurable speed feat once and with no other comparable feats of him and others is more fair lol

And I just pointed out how nonsensical your reasoning is.

I was being hyperbolic to make a point at how ridiculous your comparison was. Besides Marvel and DC scaling is a whole other shit show, using that as a one to one example is flawed from the get go.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

This is a foolishness argument. Next to no writer actually knows wtf infinite/immeasurable speed even means. Holding them to the standard of 'they need to announce it by name' is unrealistic.

Not unrealistic at all, when dragon ball does it a lot, announcing their shit, like kefla blowing a universe at her peak easily, cell busting a star system or vegeta in early days blowing Earth, what stops DBS to say a speedster is as fast as described lol

Dyspo was hyped up as being much faster than sound and light, which is objectively true. So there is no inconsistency, just writers not knowing how strong their characters are.

Hyped to levels which arent impressive at that point if we are being real, faster then sound is worth hyping for? At least FTL isnt precisely set in stone as just slightly anove light and can be argued its any finite value above it

 

[ZeNoviceArtist]

What is the most low hanging fruit of an MU could DB do?

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

Also i just noticed this moments ago

This a league themed fighter?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

And I just pointed out how nonsensical your reasoning is.

So 1 immeasurable feat is consistent when they have nothing else close to it even later, thats like saying a supersonic series is FTL cuz of a one time feat with nothing remotely close to it ever since, the argument of "they got stronger since" isnt working here

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Not unrealistic at all, when dragon ball does it a lot, announcing their shit, like kefla blowing a universe at her peak easily, cell busting a star system or vegeta in early days blowing Earth, what stops DBS to say a speedster is as fast as described lol

This happened in the same arc btw

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Not unrealistic at all, when dragon ball does it a lot, announcing their shit, like kefla blowing a universe at her peak easily, cell busting a star system or vegeta in early days blowing Earth, what stops DBS to say a speedster is as fast as described lol

Hyped to levels which arent impressive at that point if we are being real, faster then sound is worth hyping for? At least FTL isnt precisely set in stone as just slightly anove light and can be argued its any finite value above it

Dude if you talked to toyotaro and told him goku could blow up the universal seventy billion times over and move at shittillion times the speed of light at the very least, he'd have no idea what the **** you are talking about.

Yes, Dragon Ball's actual power is more in line with its narrative than most other verses, doesn't mean there isn't a disconnect.

Besides, we scale Toei Cell to High 3A despite the solar system claim, so that argument holds no ground, even on this site.

The hyping up can just be discounted as the writers having inconsistent knowledge about the power of their character which happens in nearly every other work of fiction. This isn't an arguement.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

This a league themed fighter?

Yeah its a LoL fighting game, its not that new at this point since its been revealed for a while

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

So 1 immeasurable feat is consistent when they have nothing else close to it even later, thats like saying a supersonic series is FTL cuz of a one time feat with nothing remotely close to it ever since, the argument of "they got stronger since" isnt working here

Yes it absolutely fcking does. We have the shockwaves from Goku and Beerus fist clash reaching other space times, we have Angels flying to these other space times through sheer speed alone we have Jiren being stated to be beyond time.

Breaking the laws of spacetime is something Dragon Ball have been doing since forever. An immeasurable speed feat isn't at all out of left field.

 

[Kontororou]

Im bit opposite. HBF is bit cheesy.

I kinda like "Game Over" because Bowser & Eggman are THE video game badguys, so it asserts dominance. Tho I guess Sephiroth & Ganondorf arguably challenge them.

Sephiroth challenges Eggman for the runner up, but Bowser is the most iconic one here.

... would the Ghosts from Pac-Man be in the discussion? Obviously not on the same level of Bowser, Eggman or Sephiroth, but still, probably a runner-up...

Let's not forget the reaction to Sephiroth's inclusion in Smash Ultimate. Even people who didn't know anything about FF7 heard that theme playing and immediately screamed that Sephiroth was in Smash.

So he's a pretty iconic villain, even to casuals and non FF fans.

Which is more iconic - the first four notes of One-Winged Angel, or the first four notes of MEGALOVANIA?

 

[Tipper17]

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Dude if you talked to toyotaro and told him goku could blow up the universal seventy billion times over and move at shittillion times the speed of light at the very least, he'd have no idea what the **** you are talking about.

Toyotaro doesnt do consistency in general and all can say that of him

Besides, we scale Toei Cell to High 3A despite the solar system claim, so that argument holds no ground, even on this site.

Toei Cell has claims of universal destruction but keep going in that regard as if its an argument, also last i checked they were talked to downscale from ssj3 feat vs fat buu, Toei versions have buffed showings compared to their canon plus movies also counted in their continuity which buffs others coming later too

The hyping up can just be discounted as the writers having inconsistent knowledge about the power of their character which happens in nearly every other work of fiction. This isn't an arguement.

And when you draw the line then, again you are giving too much benefit like death battle does to some characters

 

[Theuser789]

Eggman and Metal Sonic seeing the community consensus change from them being stomped to being insanely debatable even if they lose the episode:

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Toyotaro doesnt do consistency in general and all can say that of him

Toei Cell has claims of universal destruction but keep going in that regard as if its an argument, also last i checked they were talked to downscale from ssj3 feat vs fat buu, Toei versions have buffed showings compared to their canon plus movies also counted in their continuity which buffs others coming later too

And when you draw the line then, again you are giving too much benefit like death battle does to some characters

Okay you didn't even attempt to make an arguement on that first part so I'll accept the concession I guess.

As for Cell, this isn't a counter arguement, my point was characters can be far stronger than the series hypes them to be. We scale GT Pan to low multi, she doesn't exactly have many statements saying she can blow up universes.

Besides, attacking this point about Toei scaling works against you, as Kai, which has tons of Toei scaling and statements, just got accepted as being canon to Super.

Me understanding the reality of scaling doesn't always perfectly line up with the narrative of a story isn't me being too generous, it's power scaling 101.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Yes it absolutely fcking does. We have the shockwaves from Goku and Beerus fist clash reaching other space times

Afaik thats counted as mftl only

We have Angels flying to these other space times through sheer speed alone

Yet Whis says it takes roughly the time of an anime episode to reach Earth from their location, let alone Whis is worried of Beerus not holding his stomach long enough to go back in the Arale episode

We have Jiren being stated to be beyond time.

Yet Hit still had his power work on him a bunch of times to avoid or trap him, an immeasurable speed character wouldnt have been affected if he was by speed alone

Breaking the laws of spacetime is something Dragon Ball have been doing since forever. An immeasurable speed feat isn't at all out of left field.

And yet ignore the instances agsinst these notions, get real buddy

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Yet Hit still had his power work on him a bunch of times to avoid or trap him, an immeasurable speed character wouldnt have been affected if he was by speed alone

Pretty sure Hit improved his Time Skip a bunch since the U6 tournament, sorta was already doing so in his fight with Goku.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

What is the most low hanging fruit of an MU could DB do?

Any MU that based on a fad (e.g Among Us, Fall Guys, Palworld, etc).

When's the Final Fantasy and Legend of Zelda film adaptations damn

Does FF7 Advent Children count? (the animation has aged pretty well and looks better than certain "modern day" animations).

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Afaik thats counted as mftl only

Yet Whis says it takes roughly the time of an anime episode to reach Earth from their location, let alone Whis is worried of Beerus not holding his stomach long enough to go back in the Arale episode

Yet Hit still had his power work on him a bunch of times to avoid or trap him, an immeasurable speed character wouldnt have been affected if he was by speed alone

And yet ignore the instances agsinst these notions, get real buddy

Shockwaves crossing differently axis of time being regarded as mftl is an indictment on our standards, not the feat.

Whis is super inconsistent with how fast he actually is, saying he is going top speed only to perform a much faster speed feat later. He is inconsistent because he never really tries, and a bad metric for capping speed.

Hit can increase the potency of his timeskip, it working on immeasurable characters just means he is capable of increasing that potency to that level. Besides, Jiren was hyper fcking casual and in the anime Hit's time skip explicitly works on people stronger than him as far back as the U6 fight.

You have yet to provide proper examples of that go against these notions, as the ones you have provided so far have pretty easy explanations.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

'Get real buddy' immediately makes me want to stop engaging with you btw

 

[BlackDarkness679]

As for Cell, this isn't a counter arguement, my point was characters can be far stronger than the series hypes them to be.

in manga Cell isnt above solar system level, Toei on the other hand with what counts canon to their version of the series has way more stuff, Toei Frieza is as powerful as he is cuz of z movies and the fact the anime adds stuff manga doesnt, despite some claims that are adapted from manga

We scale GT Pan to low multi, she doesn't exactly have many statements saying she can blow up universes.

I assume she has scaling from others, which some characters have in dragon ball over claims

Besides, attacking this point about Toei scaling works against you, as Kai, which has tons of Toei scaling and statements, just got accepted as being canon to Super.

DBZ Kai is them trying to cut Toei filler and be as close as it can to the manga, dunno why you even bring it up as if relevant

Me understanding the reality of scaling doesn't always perfectly line up with the narrative of a story isn't me being too generous, it's power scaling 101.

So we making a mostly supersonic verse to be FTL cuz of a one time feat? Kengan Ashura i remember in a social media group argued FTL by statements of such, despite the series going on its way to explain in detail its impossible to dodge even a bullet by your speed alone and they gotta predict them in advance

If you wanna do that for DBS, why not for others in similar cases

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Pretty sure Hit improved his Time Skip a bunch since the U6 tournament, sorta was already doing so in his fight with Goku.

Goku needed kaioken on him back then, since then he used only blue, so moot

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Goku needed kaioken on him bsck then, since then he used only blue, so moot

Do you seriously not know that Goku with just Blue is stronger than he was with KKx10 in his rematch with Hit? That's some of the most basic Super scaling.

Even worse, do you think Goku didn't get 10x stronger from U6 to the end of ToP?

Do you think he just suddenly can't use Kaioken despite doing so onscreen with higher multipliers than x10?

I genuinely can't take anything you say seriously now if you are trying to argue what I think you are arguing.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

in manga Cell isnt above solar system level, Toei on the other hand with what counts canon to their version of the series has way more stuff, Toei Frieza is as powerful as he is cuz of z movies and the fact the anime adds stuff manga doesnt, despite some claims that are adapted from manga

I assume she has scaling from others, which some characters have in dragon ball over claims

DBZ Kai is them trying to cut Toei filler and be as close as it can to the manga, dunno why you even bring it up as if relevant

So we making a mostly supersonic verse to be FTL cuz of a one time feat? Kengan Ashura i remember in a social media group argued FTL by statements of such, despite the series going on its way to explain in detail its impossible to dodge even a bullet by your speed alone and they gotta predict them in advance

If you wanna do that for DBS, why not for others in similar cases

You didn't make any arguement here, this is just a bunch of yap and then a ridiculous comparison that's not at all alike to the situation with DBS immeasurable speed scaling.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Shockwaves crossing differently axis of time being regarded as mftl is an indictment on our standards, not the feat.

If it was immeasurable one would have brought up these once to argue higher speeds

Whis is super inconsistent with how fast he actually is, saying he is going top speed only to perform a much faster speed feat later. He is inconsistent because he never really tries, and a bad metric for capping speed.

If he is inconsistent, dunno why you mention him, that shows his immeasurable speeds arent clear cut, let alone the verse

Hit can increase the potency of his timeskip, it working on immeasurable characters just means he is capable of increasing that potency to that level. Besides, Jiren was hyper fcking casual and in the anime Hit's time skip explicitly works on people stronger than him as far back as the U6 fight.

Jiren wasnt so casual, he clearly shown he put effort to even move from his best move, also earlier in their battle Hit used time skip a bunch of times to escape his punches, yet you wanna tell me mister "above time itself" is consistent in that regard

You have yet to provide proper examples of that go against these notions, as the ones you have provided so far have pretty easy explanations.

Your arent clear cut and if they were so good, you would see threads with them brought up for upgrade attempts, so you just reaching in this instance

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You didn't make any arguement here, this is just a bunch of yap and then a ridiculous comparison that's not at all alike to the situation with DBS immeasurable speed scaling.

You saying no no no basically and others dont have an argument isnt making yours look any better, but keep telling yourself that

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The fact you didnt even reply properly on those means you cant argue anything against them

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

If it was immeasurable one would have brought up these once to argue higher speeds

If he is inconsistent, dunno why you mention him, that shows his immeasurable speeds arent clear cut, let alone the verse

Jiren wasnt so casual, he clearly shown he put effort to even move from his best move, also earlier in their battle Hit used time skip a bunch of times to escape his punches, yet you wanna tell me mister "above time itself" is consistent in that regard

Your arent clear cut and if they were so good, you would see threads with them brought up for upgrade attempts, so you just reaching in this instance

People have tried to argue the shockwaves to those speeds. Stupid site standards prevented those arguments from going through.

Whis being inconsistent with what he says his top speed is doesn't suddenly mean he didn't perform those feats. That's a ridiculous arguement.

Jiren was holding back massively throughout 99% of the tournament. He didn't actually use his full power until episode 129. So him mildly struggling, struggling less than he did UI Goku mind you, isn't at all a counter arguement.

People have been trying to make immeasurable speed a thing for DBS forever, and changing standards and loose assertions of outliers have made it near impossible. Hell the supporters just had a general discussion thread going over the arguements against immeasurable speed being an outlier.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

You saying no no no basically and others dont have an argument isnt making yours look any better, but keep telling yourself that

I have responded and debunked literally every single point you've made at every turn.