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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (2024–2025) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

DRW001 said:
All araki did was supervise the story and design H.A Dio. That's it. Not withstanding interviews where people who work on media like this say that araki gives them 100% creative freedom to do whatever they want. The story also has showings that blatantly contradict what is shown in Canon.

Eyes of Heaven's story is 100% non-canon
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It is absolutely non canon, but that I don't see how that invalidate things within it. When it's not as if the stands are completely alternate universe characters.

Most of the characters within it largely follow the same history as their main counterparts do.
 
Deidalius said:
The more I hear about SMT the more unappealing it is to me personally since apparently you kill God and all.

I dunno if any religious person in general would even like any game or medium where their god is killed.
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As a Christian, I have a weird relationship with SMT. Ultimately I just acknowledge it as a work of fiction and a very much innacurate portrayal of the Lord (and this is pretty much intended) and continue to enjoy the fiction as just that.

Still, I do get uncomfortable at times since portrayals range, with Devil Survivor having one of the most favourable depictions of "God" while the og SMT V Law ending being the happiest of the bunch (for the protag). SMT IV Apocalypse and SMT II on the other hand... yeah...

Also, tbf, SMT has you kill gods from all kinds of myths and religions (but Law seriously needs more to it, they're way too often just bad guys or extremists).
 
Tyranno223 said:
As a Christian, I have a weird relationship with SMT. Ultimately I just acknowledge it as a work of fiction and a very much innacurate portrayal of the Lord (and this is pretty much intended) and continue to enjoy the fiction as just that.

Still, I do get uncomfortable at times since portrayals range, with Devil Survivor having one of the most favourable depictions of "God" while the og SMT V Law ending being the happiest of the bunch (for the protag). SMT IV Apocalypse and SMT II on the other hand... yeah...

Also, tbf, SMT has you kill gods from all kinds of myths and religions (but Law seriously needs more to it, they're way too often just bad guys or extremists).
Click to expand...
Yeah, big man up in the sky isn't the only God you beat or kill across Megaten. In fact you beat up Lucifer more often than not in mainline. Or the Demiurge in NINE, or Hazama in IF, or Shekinah in Strange Journey Redux....

But yeah, the constant usage of Abrahamic deities as the end all be all for the final portions of the games is getting a bit stale. Kagutsuchi was cool in the original version of Nocturne, until Lucifer came around in the re-releases. Asura too in SMT 1, depending on how you go about things.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
It is absolutely non canon, but that I don't see how that invalidate things within it. When it's not as if the stands are completely alternate universe characters.

Most of the characters within it largely follow the same history as their main counterparts do.
Click to expand...
It would invalidate things if you try to scale things that characters do in the story to their Canon counterparts. Otherwise you'll get shit like 8-A Jotaro and literally everyone being acausal, which obviously isn't true
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
How is it 'factual'? And people don't need to be Japanese citizens to dunk in the game
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Do you actually know what this controversy was about?

Edit: it was people being upset that a black man was on the cover. They dressed it up with other asinine claims, but all it was was a racist temper tantrum.
 
Darkmon_cns said:
I was around for that controversy and I promise you, the Japanese didn't care about the black samurai, they weren't mad about a Japanese historical figure being used that's used all the time over there.
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So was I, I read several translated Japanese articles discussing the commotion it had caused among the Japanese online community. A few scholars even wanted to take legal action against one dude who wrote the book used as a main source on Yasuke for years only for it to come out he basically made up most of it.
 
Darkmon_cns said:
Do you actually know what this controversy was about?

Edit: it was people being upset that a black man was on the cover. They dressed it up with other asinine claims, but all it was was a racist temper tantrum.
Click to expand...
Yes, Yasuke the Black Samurai. People pointed out the historical inaccuracies of treating him like an official samurai, and how it took away from getting a male Asian lead. They were quickly called racist
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Yes, Yasuke the Black Samurai. People pointed out the historical inaccuracies of treating him like an official samurai, and how it took away from getting a male Asian lead. They were quickly called racist
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Because they were. Because he had been referred as a Samuri by Japanese media for years, it was just another culture war bull temper tantrum. I'll leave this at that Because this has nothing to do with death battle and leads no where nice.
 
Darkmon_cns said:
Because they were. Because he had been referred as a Samuri by Japanese media for years, it was just another culture war bull temper tantrum. I'll leave this at that Because this has nothing to do with death battle and leads no where nice.
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No they weren't. He was called that by japanese media for years because as I said, some western dude wrote a book about it, claimed it had been fact checked by one Japan's leading historians of that time period, and then it came out that historian said he never did so, people looked into the book and found most of it was conjecture. That's not racism.

If anything putting hip hop music in the trailer for Yasuke when it's supposed to be a medival Japanese themed game is way more racist.
 
Theyll probably give Ash all his Pokes even released ones, maaaybe they note that Ash has never commanded that many at once?

Yugi seems to have hax to one shot a lot of them, but depending if you argue that Ash can speedblitz and prevent that he might be able to handle it. Tbh I dunno if theyll use that or say Creation Trio scaling.
 
Imagine losing a Death Battle to this ******* guy
xRIDsYG.png
 
WCMM said:
As far as killing God goes as a Japanese trope, I think that's just a Japanese mythology thing being imposed on Christian imagery. In Japan, godhood is something that's a lot more easily won and lost. Gods dying or being supplanted is a lot more normal for them.
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There's generic JRPG killing god. And there's SMT denying Bible verses and demonising (as in turning into a demon)before killing god.
 
Tyranno223 said:
As a Christian, I have a weird relationship with SMT. Ultimately I just acknowledge it as a work of fiction and a very much innacurate portrayal of the Lord (and this is pretty much intended) and continue to enjoy the fiction as just that.

Still, I do get uncomfortable at times since portrayals range, with Devil Survivor having one of the most favourable depictions of "God" while the og SMT V Law ending being the happiest of the bunch (for the protag). SMT IV Apocalypse and SMT II on the other hand... yeah...

Also, tbf, SMT has you kill gods from all kinds of myths and religions (but Law seriously needs more to it, they're way too often just bad guys or extremists).
Click to expand...

If it's any food for thought, I have:

- An article on base SMT V's endings (see here)

- A review on SMT Strange Journey redux, and a writeup on how New Law is probably my favourite of it's endings.

Often times, I jokingly call SMT 'Satan Simulator' (that anti-law bias is an understandable perception). I find myself reminded of a video by Tony4You on the matter, and while I disagree with some of his takes on the matter now that I've embroiled myself a little more, it's still a well structured video regardless:

 
Multipize said:
As much as I'd hate to say it but there's a kernel of truth to what he's saying.
JoJo fights & Persona gameplay of trying to find an opponent's weak point to exploit.
Thing is Joker's weak spots aren't anything Giorno can take advantage of they're elemental against a guy with only one type of attack being physical.
Once Joker finds that out equip Shiki-Ouji or Arahabaki and call it a day
On the flip side Giorno doesn't have a way to meaningfully play off Joker's higher scale attacks like Ziodyne, Morning Star or god rest his soul if he pulls out Sinful Shell
Or any status moves like Makajama, Marin Karin. list goes on.
It's a dynamic where Joker was just have to avoid winning strategies so a conflict can foster.
Which I'm not against (it's basically how Smash Bros handled his portrayal if you think about it) but I would understand if someone was.
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If you're able to articulate this many points in favor of my argument, there's probably more than a "kernel of truth," but banter aside, this is well-said, and it gets at what I was trying to say. The only meaningful interaction of their abilities that goes beyond the general concept of Stands and Personas looking similar is potentially how their respective attack-reflection abilities would affect each other. Otherwise, base Giorno simply doesn't have enough versatility to play against everything base Joker can throw at him, and GER is a binary "yes/no" wincon, which Joker easily resists from feats from his own games.
 
EJthe24th said:
image.png

image.png

image.png

Reading Speedy's reasoning doesn't fill me with confidence on how he researched this
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Yeah it's mostly conjecture and yap. Most of it isn't even worth responding to because he doesn't provide calcs. He just says 'this makes sense' again and again in several different ways.

The King Piccolo struggled to blow up a city shit alone makes everything else he says sus at best.

I've already seen several other calcs that actually show their work that don't come close to Speedy's work.

I don't know if anyone in the discord has responded or confronted him about this.
 
WCMM said:
The guy who did the SB calc for the sundisk posted a google doc going over it in more detail. Definitely worth a read.

docs.google.com

Tackling the Solar Disc Feat

Tackling the Solar Disk Feat Introduction to the Feat I admittedly made this in reaction to the Death Battle. Before it came out I thought the whole thing was a joke and there was no way Death Battle would take the feat seriously. To put it simply, Nolan wants to conquer a planet. He decides to ...
docs.google.com docs.google.com
Click to expand...
This pretty effectively calls out what Speedy did wrong calc wise.
 
I'm not a calc guy, but I can pretty safely safely Ultraguy didn't do that much better for Bardock. Not using Vegeta's planet and moon bust, (250 quettaton), for base Bardock is iffy. Giving Super Saiyan some insane form of stamina drain it's never been shown it have is worse.

For some reason not using Toei's Planet Vegeta destruction (anywhere from 3.7k quettatons to .634 foe) over Super's rendition (20-80 quettatons) when that's not even the Supernova that sent Bardock back in time to get Super Saiyan is down right incompetent.

Speed was fine, but a 300 quettaton range for SSJ Bardock is laughable
 
Deidalius said:
The more I hear about SMT the more unappealing it is to me personally since apparently you kill God and all.

I dunno if any religious person in general would even like any game or medium where their god is killed.

I guess others might like it because it's like Pokemon from what I've been told. Speaking of Pokemon. My mother might have an aneurysm if she saw SMT lol, since it's basically Pokemon if it was truly satanic/anti-Christian XD.
Click to expand...
Personas okay if that’s a problem for you. You do fight A VERSION of God in 5 but it’s also like not God, Gnosticism is weird is all I’m saying
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
The calcer Magdalenus als brought up that Speedy's suggestions basically mean the planet has a gravity hundreds of times to trillions of times of Earth's, based on a black hole feat that is from the TV show exclusively apparently
Click to expand...
Was that the guy who made the Google doc a few posts above this one?
 
Tipper17 said:
Again it's falls apart just by one factor
The narrative
Click to expand...
Come on man, people have Dragon Ball characters being able to destroy more universes than exist in their entire cosmology trillions of times over. Do you really think that fits the narrative? You think Bardock being billions of times FTL fits the narrative? Why the hell would Zeno of all people be considered so terrifying if any random asshole in the Tournament of Power could clench their asscheeks and wipe out the entire multiverse in the narrative?

Powerscaling and a story's narrative are the two most incompatible things ever. Months ago you had Ida from MHA going at Transonic speeds be considered this insane feat of speed within the story when people already say that he was breaking the sound barrier way early on.
 
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