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Black Clover General Discussion thread

Arnoldstone18 said:
Smh

Why do you all make the speed so damn personal.

This is not about how high can we go nor is it how low we believe it should be.

It's about what is logically accurate at the end of the day.
Click to expand...
And I don’t find this to be logically accurate
 
I do not agree with the logic of Zenon not having a soul, this goes against the logic of Zenon not having a soul, this goes against the function of the soul portrayed in the work, see the other examples of souls removed from the verse, cap 149 for example when Patolly gathers all the stones of Sephiroth and completes the reincarnation spell, non-elven members have their souls and mana absorbed by the forbidden magic and they simply disappear. Another example is the new movie where the imperial sword carries shards of the sages' souls and thus Conrad revives the other sages to fight him, and when the sword is destroyed the sages also disappear. And we also have Lucius' direct statement that the soul is the source of a person's existence,

1-Zenon still had his soul from him and Beelzebub would take it afterwards (which is also unfeasible due to the way the demonic contract works)

2-Zenon gained another form of source/soul which in this case would be the demonic heart, which matches the fact that demonic hearts are the source of demons as well
 
WTF said:
I do not agree with the logic of Zenon not having a soul, this goes against the logic of Zenon not having a soul, this goes against the function of the soul portrayed in the work, see the other examples of souls removed from the verse, cap 149 for example when Patolly gathers all the stones of Sephiroth and completes the reincarnation spell, non-elven members have their souls and mana absorbed by the forbidden magic and they simply disappear.
Click to expand...
No the Eye of midnight sun members were literally used as a sacrifice, and they didn't disappear they just died. Even if you wanna say Zenon should die without a soul because humans can't live without one you're missing the biggest factor here: Zenon is no longer human so it doesn't apply to him
WTF said:
Another example is the new movie where the imperial sword carries shards of the sages' souls and thus Conrad revives the other sages to fight him, and when the sword is destroyed the sages also disappear.
Click to expand...
This is also false. The souls of the previous kings within the Imperial Sword were left intact, Julius even says they lent him power, if the souls were affected by Asta's strike, no wizard kings would have been able to lend him power . The resurrected kings only disappear because their existence relied on being powered by the sword, the moment Asta removes the magic out of it they disappear.

WTF said:
And we also have Lucius' direct statement that the soul is the source of a person's existence,
Click to expand...
This is a mistranslation

When Lucius talks about the soul, he refers to it as "reikon" (Spirit), which is different from "tamashi" which is what is used to all the other instances where soul is mentioned, including Zenon's Bargain.


WTF said:
1-Zenon still had his soul from him and Beelzebub would take it afterwards (which is also unfeasible due to the way the demonic contract works)
Click to expand...
Unproven and the dialogue quite literally says the opposite
WTF said:
2-Zenon gained another form of source/soul which in this case would be the demonic heart, which matches the fact that demonic hearts are the source of demons as well
Click to expand...
The Devil Heart isn't a soul, Zagred has both a soul and a devil heart. proving that both are different. And even then, you can very well have a source that acts like a fundamental aspect of one's existence without it being a soul.
 
Lastly, we currently don't treat the Devil Heart to act as a soul anyway so unless you make a CRT for it, it's pointless to argue about it
 
Epsilon_R said:
No the Eye of midnight sun members were literally used as a sacrifice, and they didn't disappear they just died. Even if you wanna say Zenon should die without a soul because humans can't live without one you're missing the biggest factor here: Zenon is no longer human so it doesn't apply to him
Click to expand...
they were disintegrating, and anime shows that they really disappeared
Epsilon_R said:
This is also false. The souls of the previous kings within the Imperial Sword were left intact, Julius even says they lent him power, if the souls were affected by Asta's strike, no wizard kings would have been able to lend him power . The resurrected kings only disappear because their existence relied on being powered by the sword, the moment Asta removes the magic out of it they disappear.
Click to expand...

The soul in BC exists in several states the soul of the wise men was "asleep" inside the sword this is the state of the soul when a person dies, we have other examples of this within the work like Licht
Epsilon_R said:
This is a mistranslation

When Lucius talks about the soul, he refers to it as "reikon" (Spirit), which is different from "tamashi" which is what is used to all the other instances where soul is mentioned, including Zenon's Bargain.
Click to expand...
Well, Lucius's magic is soul magic so that's kind of irrelevant
Epsilon_R said:
The Devil Heart isn't a soul, Zagred has both a soul and a devil heart. proving that both are different. And even then, you can very well have a source that acts like a fundamental aspect of one's existence without it being a soul.
Click to expand...
Yes , I know , my point is not that the demonic heart = soul , but that the demonic heart is a source as well as the soul
 
Negative Mana is an energy that can interact with souls. Forbidden magic, also known as Negative Mana, is what Nero used to seal Zagred's Soul. It has been stated multiple times that negative mana can interact with and harm the soul. Exposure to it corrupts and reshapes the very soul of one's existence. Thus, devils have limited resistance to soul alterations and corruption (already in their profiles) for resisting it and can theoretically block spiritual attacks using negative energy, based on the argument that it can interact with souls.
 
Regarding Black Clover's discussion rule:
  • Please do not attempt to change the statistics of Asta with Black Divider without new, relevant information from the anime or manga, based on whether or not it scales above Licht's Conquering Eon. This topic has been addressed numerous times, with the majority of prevailing arguments being shown and refuted here, and it has become tiring to deal with them over and over again. This discussion rule was agreed on here.
Click to expand...
This rule came from https://vsbattles.com/threads/posible-downgrade-for-astas-black-divider.127347/ and https://vsbattles.com/threads/black-clover-discussion-rule-proposal.128222/ and was added at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=7345236&oldid=7345225. However, https://vsbattles.com/threads/black-clover-revisiting-black-divider-scaling.130084/ later changed the logic for the scaling, so should this rule even exist anymore?
@CloverDragon03 @Starter_Pack @Duedate8898 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Shadowbokunohero Your help would be appreciated here.
 
On another note, it appears Asta can fly in base now without any external aids since he'sshowb floating next to Yuno. Much like how it was stated/shown that Gadja could levitate ewithout using magic (so just manipulating his raw magical power to to fly)

Consideing before Asta manipulates manipulates the anti-magic power in demon-slayer sword to fly, it's likely he's manipulating the anti-magic power in his body to fly similar to DS. Asta's really come a long way
 
 
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