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Black Clover: Speed Upgrade After a Downgrade

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CloverDragon03

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VS Battles
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So I've become the enemy of many by downgrading Black Clover's speed, lovely. But, there is some silver lining (hopefully), as there is an upgrade to be found in all this. Specifically, for the final arc. Let's talk about it.


This is a calc I put out some time ago that was recently accepted. This CRT is intended to implement it onto the profiles. However, I know there is a question that'll be on a number of people's minds, given how high the result of this calc is:

"Is this calc an outlier?"

The short answer is: No, it's not. The long answer, though, will require us to go through each of the guidelines of the Outliers page, which is exactly what I will do now:

1. Is it a big jump or drop in speed?
Yes, but that's not a dealbreaker on its own, especially given that this point later goes on to say that if the character in question has very few feats/calcs, this point can be discarded.

2. Is it a unique or exceptional incident?
Yes, but like with point 1, Yuno lacks speed calcs (the verse does as a whole, really) so this can be skipped as stated in this very point.

3. Is the event unexplained and unjustified?
No, it is very much explained and justified via the fact that this is after a 15 month timeskip, wherein everyone improved vastly, with Yuno even achieving the title of Grand Magic Knight (literally one step away from becoming Wizard King). Even the likes of Yami are also astounded by his growth in this time period

4. Does the event break the previously established power-scaling?
No, as the 15-month timeskip puts everyone at a significantly greater level than before. The only one who could potentially scale that isn't in the final arc is Complete Lucifero, who himself has no scaling to anyone else. (Edit: He doesn't even scale anyway as of now, supporting this point even further)

5. Does the event break the narrative of the work?
No. Although I've mentioned the cap of light speed for Black Clover, this is only relevant until the Elf Arc. Afterwards, such a cap doesn't appear to exist, as evidenced by Lucifero being FTL, Demon Light Magic literally being FTL itself, and the lack of light speed being stated or even hinted as an ultimate level of speed in the Spade Arc onwards.

So, I believe that with each guideline having been gone through, I can safely come to the conclusion that this feat is not an outlier.

With that done, I'd now like to go over who scales to this calc. The characters that scale are as follows:
  • Judgment Day Base Yuno + Spirit Dive Yuno
  • Sacred Power Lucius
  • Judgment Day Base Asta + all higher forms
And then there are some that might scale, but honestly, I don't wanna get into those at the moment. They might get more concrete scaling later, and I'd rather wait for that in the coming months or so.

And with that, I've said all I've needed to say. Feel free to discuss!

Agree: 9 (@KingTempest, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Excel616, @SuperStar, @Arnoldstone18, @ssgengar, @Xinsignia1, @Joshyyy_64, @Lonkitt)
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
Last edited:
Alright

I think that this is solid to be put in, but 1 question exists that needs to be answered

What makes those attacks light speed
 
Last edited:
Alright

I think that this is solid to be put in, but 1 question exists that needs to be answered

What makes those attacks light speed
  1. They reflect off of an appropriate material, that being Yuno's reflective barrier. Now, I looked around for other instances of this barrier, and the only other instance is this, which doesn't say much tbh. However, I think it's worth noting how these sorts of things in Black Clover closely resemble their real-world counterparts, as far as the whole "non-magical mirror" thing is concerned. To give a very direct comparison, the mirrors summoned by Gauche's Mirror Magic function like real mirrors, including how they reflect light appropriately. So I'd say it's more likely that the light reflecting off of Yuno's barrier (which is similar in construction and function) is a point in its favor
  2. Rays of Light Magic have a precedent for being light speed in Black Clover, as shown with Patry's Ray of Divine Punishment, making it more likely that these rays of light are also light speed
  3. It also helps that the verse has multiple near-light speed calcs and even some FTL scaling, which considerably reduces the burden of proof for light speed.
  4. More of a supporting point considering "not moving in a straight line" is an anti-feat for light speed lasers, but uh... Yeah they move in straight lines.
 
So I've become the enemy of many by downgrading Black Clover's speed, lovely.

And nobody is your enemy.

The speed being that high was always wrong and it wasn’t even accepted to begin with. Rather than fixing it myself I let it slide which led to the whole damn thing getting removed. So that was more so a punishment for me than me hating you.

We have our beliefs and we won’t let that get in the way of our friendship. We should only settle our views and ideas in the form of a CRT.

Also this isn’t one piece or JJK nobody gives a ****.

I’ll call @Dereck03 to check this out. Then if he agrees, I guess after two days this can be applied.
 
Can you explain the reasoning that would cause the characters listed in the OP to scale to the calc?
 
Can you explain the reasoning that would cause the characters listed in the OP to scale to the calc?

Oh they are the only ones who were visibly shown to could keep up with Spirit Dive Yuno. Keep in mind Base Yuno performed the feat.

0368-012.png



0368-013.png


0368-014.png



More could scale but these three are the safest option since they’re shown.
 
The calc is essentially for the magic of Yuno's barrier connecting the dots between his star points as far as I understand it, in order to form the barrier.

Does Yuno move at a comparable speed to the magic connecting his stars together?
 
Can you explain the reasoning that would cause the characters listed in the OP to scale to the calc?
Yuno did the feat in base. His Spirit Dive is faster. Sacred Power Lucius kept up with Spirit Dive Yuno. Base Asta attacked Sacred Power Lucius from far away and Lucius could only raise an arm to block in response (on mobile rn, source is Chapter 368), and his higher forms like Black Asta and Devil Union are faster than his base form

Edit: Ninja’d
 
The calc is essentially for the magic of Yuno's barrier connecting the dots between his star points as far as I understand it, in order to form the barrier.

Does Yuno move at a comparable speed to the magic connecting his stars together?
Yes. For instance, during Chapter 309, he connects them together to form a barrier against Zenon’s Bone Magic, which travels a similar distance to the connecting of these “dots” in that moment. He then goes on in that chapter and the next one to move at comparable speeds to Zenon’s Bone Magic on multiple occasions
 
The calc is essentially for the magic of Yuno's barrier connecting the dots between his star points as far as I understand it, in order to form the barrier.

Does Yuno move at a comparable speed to the magic connecting his stars together?

Yep.

Asides teleportation, all his star magic spells work the same way. His stars fire magic to other stars or to his enemies to damage them or even shoots at himself to grab and use as a whip. He also fought Zenon who was comparable to Yuno using both his star and wind magic.

Edit: Ninja’d lmao.
 
To be honest, this seems fair, and much better and in line with the narrative.

And for the record, I do feel that inflation from prior speed scaling was the result of incorrectly applying valid multipliers, and I can see why that was a problem (not even sure how it got THAT bad) I guess things sometimes slip through the cracks, and it seems people are going to be more mindful moving forward, which is good.

Nevertheless, I think this looks good, and seems much more reasonable,
Thanks again.
 
I disagree with the speed of the rays. We have no idea what these rays are and the only attacks described as light speed were the giant ones. Are these stated to be that attack? Normal light magic, while fast, isn’t inherently light speed and utilizes certain moves that move at light speed. Light speed movement and the divine ray, and I see no reason for this to comparable to those attacks.
 
This is a better way of getting Massively FTL Black Clover so I agree.

I disagree with the speed of the rays. We have no idea what these rays are and the only attacks described as light speed were the giant ones. Are these stated to be that attack? Normal light magic, while fast, isn’t inherently light speed and utilizes certain moves that move at light speed. Light speed movement and the divine ray, and I see no reason for this to comparable to those attacks.
The issue with Light Magic scaling was that not all of Patry's spells are inherently lightspeed because some of them like his Light Swords and Whip are constructs made of Light Magic which doesn't necessarily mean they moved at lightspeed especially when it's noted that their speed could vary unlike the movement spell which is outright stated to be lightspeed and the Ray of Divine Punishment is accepted as being lightspeed because it is an actual ray of light that ticks the boxes for light beams, if these beams also tick those boxes then I don't see why they don't qualify as well.
 
This is a better way of getting Massively FTL Black Clover so I agree.


The issue with Light Magic scaling was that not all of Patry's spells are inherently lightspeed because some of them like his Light Swords and Whip are constructs made of Light Magic which doesn't necessarily mean they moved at lightspeed especially when it's noted that their speed could vary unlike the movement spell which is outright stated to be lightspeed and the Ray of Divine Punishment is accepted as being lightspeed because it is an actual ray of light that ticks the boxes for light beams, if these beams also tick those boxes then I don't see why they don't qualify as well.
The divine ray is only considered light speed because its stated to be light speed. These light attacks aren’t shown to be normal rays like the divine ray. They bend and warp, like the whip, and honestly have no reason to be light speed.
I disagree with this.
 
The divine ray is only considered light speed because its stated to be light speed. These light attacks aren’t shown to be normal rays like the divine ray. They bend and warp, like the whip, and honestly have no reason to be light speed.
I disagree with this.
They don't bend, what? That's patently false

I've explained why they qualify
 
They don't bend, what? That's patently false

I've explained why they qualify
Your only explanation was it was light magic, that’s essentially it. When he first fire off the barrage that was going to destroy the kingdom, many of them bend. Check with a ruler, they’ll literally bending. They also bent when they were punched away,
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/clover_356_never_006.png
 
Your only explanation was it was light magic, that’s essentially it. When he first fire off the barrage that was going to destroy the kingdom, many of them bend. Check with a ruler, they’ll literally bending. They also bent when they were punched away,
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/clover_356_never_006.png
It travels in a straight line here until Sol deflects it

Also, it not being a straight line isn't an anti-feat if you can prove reflection or refraction, which I did
 
You'd also have to do more gymnastics to assume the same kind of ray of Light Magic (which has already been accepted as light speed) is not light speed, and that's not even mentioning the lessened burden of proof due to the existence of light speed scaling and calcs
 
No.
It's because it's stated to be lightspeed
The Ray of Divine Punishment isn't actually stated to be light speed iirc, it just fits our criteria. The only thing actually stated to be light speed is the movement spell (RoDP is just said to have "speed you'll never avoid" compared to Yami and Asta in the Cave Arc)
 
Your only explanation was it was light magic, that’s essentially it. When he first fire off the barrage that was going to destroy the kingdom, many of them bend. Check with a ruler, they’ll literally bending. They also bent when they were punched away,
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/clover_356_never_006.png

That’s a golem hand being blown off…
 
It travels in a straight line here until Sol deflects it

Also, it not being a straight line isn't an anti-feat if you can prove reflection or refraction, which I did
Light literately doesn’t bend. Of course fiction gets some pass, but it’s a hard contradiction when your argument for LS is that it’s light. Tge reflection argument doesn’t work. It’s a shield, it simply bounced off of it.
I don’t think there’s enough proof to suggest it’s light speed.
 
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