Some minor aditions to Black Clover

[ElAlekaPL]

This is my first thread here, and for start I prefere propose some minor aditions (next time if this is acepted I will propose some things for the general scaling). Well, let's start this.

General Aditions:

• Limited Ki Manipulation for all characters: All wizards unconsciously control Ki and transform it into magic power.
• Text Manipulation: Wizards can create magic paswords writting with mana in the are.
• Acelerated Develoment, Reactive Evolution and Empowerment: Wizards can develop new spells thanks to the increase in their emotions. This is also consistent with this other scans. So they can have supernatural willpower to? I going to talk later for the supernatural willpower.
• Limited Mana Manipulation: Tabata stated that when someone performs a spell, they unconsciously grab the natural mana to cast it. However, when someone uses natural mana, such as mana method users or elves, they have better control of mana and therefore can have an increase in power. For them it would not be limited and they would also have Statics Amplificaciont. In summary: Mana Manipulation is limited for everyone, but for those who use natural mana it would not be and it is also added Statics Amplificaciont.
• Mana Projection: This goes hand in hand with the above hax. Tabata stated that mages are capable of casting Magic Bullets without the need for a grimoire.

Some things that are not General:

• Limited Animal Manipulation: Tabata did a ranking to rank the characters from best to worst, based on the most favored by animals, for what it might qualify for it? This hax only is applicable for the first five of the ranking.
• Ki can Detec Objets that have no life. Ki can Detec invisible people.
• Enchanced Aura: Those who were possessed by the elves gained some of their magical power.

Invidual Hax:

• Asta:
  • Supernatural Willpower: Asta have 5/5 of Willpower in the databook. Asta could get up in the gravity of Lucifero with his willpower, even being extremely weakened and in not conditions to fight.
  • Dimensional Storage: His grimoire acts like a dimensional storage since his swords storage there and he can invoke from there.
  • Limited Law Manipulation: Lucius stated that the Anti-Magic flies the natural law.
  • Black Asta should have all the Resistences given by Mana Skin since act similar to that technique.
  • Resistance to Heat and Electricity Manipulation: Tank a lighting.
  • Limited Death Manipulation: Zetten combine with Anti-Magic wither the plants.
• Yami and Nacht:
  • Supernatural Willpower: I don't now why this didn't get approved, but this scan have more than a year old.
  • Pocket Reality Manipulation for Nacht: Monument of Atonement allows to seals his opponent in a world of shadows.
• Yuno:
  • Supernatural Willpower: After being possessed by an elf and hearing Asta's determination to become Magic King, his will allowed him to keep his soul intact.
  • Information Analysis: Due to being a Wind Magic user, he has an extremely good magic sensor, allowing him to detect enemies and attacks. He also should scale to the detection of the Lightning Magic users like Luck or Gaja.
  • Attack Reflection: Spirit of Notos creates a shield that creates a strong current of wind that redirects attacks that hit the shield.
• Mimosa:
  • Information Analysis: Mimosa's specialty is mana detection and she can differentiate magic power between different races. Therefore, she sould scale to other characters who have a extremely good magic sensor.
• Julius:
  • Temporal Sealed: Julius was able to seal Conrad and the Imperial Sword temporarily. This also scale to Lucius, but I believe he need a thread only for him.
• Grey:
  • Matter Manipulation: His magic allows her to disassemble the structures to assemble them like other.
• Jack:
  • Non-Physical Interaction: Able to interact with his blades of mana.
• Zagred:
  • Rage Power and Body Control: When he gets angry, he can open more mouths in his body.

There are more characters that they may have aditions, but are not important or are so long that need a thread appart like Lucius or Megicula. So that's all for this thread I think.

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Arnoldstone18]

You sure we don’t already have most of these?

 

[Xinsignia1]

I think this all looks alright, except I would remove limited mana manipulation and only give it to those that have demonstrated it.

For external mana manipulation, it was never stated that everyone subconsciously manipulates external mana and add it to their spells, that language isn't even stated in the scan you linked, so im not exactly sure how you arrived to that conclusion.

External mana manipulation is skill that's learned. What Theresa is saying is that among those that can manipulate manipulate external mana, its more beneficial for those that have higher magic power, since the significance of the boost is dependent upon how much magic power you actually have, that doesn't mean or even imply all mages subconsciously add external mana to their spell.

When Yuno first controlled mana with Bell's help during the capital invasioni arc, Catherine the witch who uses ash msgic was perplexed and stated "he controlled mana" so it'sa learned skill. So I don't think we should designate every mage external mana manipulation, unless they've been stated to.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I agree with what the new waifu posted in the thread. Arinsu

 

[ElAlekaPL]

You sure we don’t already have most of these?

I revised the profiles and they don't have this. With Nacht strange me because in the tecnics section explains that and when I go to the hax seccion he doesn't have it. With Jack is the same thing for example.

For external mana manipulation, it was never statesd that everyone subconsciously manipulates external mana that language isn'teven in the scan you linked. External mana manipulation is skill that learned. What Theresa is saying that among those that can manipulate manipulates external mana, its more beneficial for those that have higher magic power, since the significance of the boost is dependent upon how much magic power you actually have.

I misunderstood then, sorry. I'm agree with you.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

This is my first thread here, and for start I prefere propose some minor aditions (next time if this is acepted I will propose some things for the general scaling). Well, let's start this.

Welcome. I too started with general ability additions. Nice.

Make sure you check our pages to make sure you aren’t proposing stuff that is already on there. I do see some new abilities here but still make the effort to make the OP targeted towards just new abilities.

 

[Epsilon_R]

The new legacy maybe?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The new legacy maybe?

Led by me

 

[Epsilon_R]

Led by me

You old it's time to pass the torch

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I only started like a year or two ago

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I only started like a year or two ago

Time to retire Lightning McQueen

 

[Passersby]

I only started like a year or two ago

your time ends now old man

 

[ElAlekaPL]

I only started like a year or two ago

I don't want to remove your position .

the new waifu posted in the thread

New waifu...

 

[Passersby]

I don't want to remove your position .


New waifu...

hello there newbie, there is a reply button on the right corner of each post and you can select/highlight any statement and a reply button will appear over them, click it and you will have what you want to reply to right away

hope this helps

also prepare to waste and throw away your life if you had any now that you're on this site

 

[ElAlekaPL]

hello there newbie, there is a reply button on the right corner of each post and you can select/highlight any statement and a reply button will appear over them, click it and you will have what you want to reply to right away

hope this helps

also prepare to waste and throw away your life if you had any now that you're on this site

Thx. And I know the risk of being here

 

[Passersby]

at least you know

i hope your first CRT goes smoothly

 

[CloverDragon03]

Led by me

NO

 

[CloverDragon03]

Alright, time to go through these one by one (assuming these abilities aren't already on the profiles):

This is my first thread here, and for start I prefere propose some minor aditions (next time if this is acepted I will propose some things for the general scaling). Well, let's start this.

General Aditions:

• Limited Ki Manipulation for all characters: All wizards unconsciously control Ki and transform it into magic power.
• Text Manipulation: Wizards can create magic paswords writting with mana in the are.
• Acelerated Develoment, Reactive Evolution and Empowerment: Wizards can develop new spells thanks to the increase in their emotions. This is also consistent with this other scans. So they can have supernatural willpower to? I going to talk later for the supernatural willpower.
• Limited Mana Manipulation: Tabata stated that when someone performs a spell, they unconsciously grab the natural mana to cast it. However, when someone uses natural mana, such as mana method users or elves, they have better control of mana and therefore can have an increase in power. For them it would not be limited and they would also have Statics Amplificaciont. In summary: Mana Manipulation is limited for everyone, but for those who use natural mana it would not be and it is also added Statics Amplificaciont.
• Mana Projection: This goes hand in hand with the above hax. Tabata stated that mages are capable of casting Magic Bullets without the need for a grimoire.

Mana Manipulation isn't an ability. Neither is Mana Projection. I'd say the latter can fall under Energy Projection, though.

The rest looks good though

Some things that are not General:

• Limited Animal Manipulation: Tabata did a ranking to rank the characters from best to worst, based on the most favored by animals, for what it might qualify for it? This hax only is applicable for the first five of the ranking.
• Ki can Detec Objets that have no life. Ki can Detec invisible people.
• Enchanced Aura: Those who were possessed by the elves gained some of their magical power.

• Being liked by animals doesn't give you Animal Manipulation, not even a limited form. If a dog likes me, that doesn't give me Animal Manipulation
• This would be Extrasensory Perception, which Ki users already have
• Mages already have Aura, so this is pretty redundant. The most I'd advocate for is an addition to the justification, saying that this aura becomes more potent when the mage is possessed by an elf (if they were possessed by an elf in the story)

Invidual Hax:

• Asta:
  • Supernatural Willpower: Asta have 5/5 of Willpower in the databook. Asta could get up in the gravity of Lucifero with his willpower, even being extremely weakened and in not conditions to fight.
  • Dimensional Storage: His grimoire acts like a dimensional storage since his swords storage there and he can invoke from there.
  • Limited Law Manipulation: Lucius stated that the Anti-Magic flies the natural law.
  • Black Asta should have all the Resistences given by Mana Skin since act similar to that technique.
  • Resistance to Heat and Electricity Manipulation: Tank a lighting.
  • Limited Death Manipulation: Zetten combine with Anti-Magic wither the plants.

• Surprised he doesn't have this. Agree
• I was originally iffy on this, but we actually do see that when Liebe is sealed into Asta's grimoire, it's shown as being another dimension, so mark me as agreeing with this
• I'd actually consider this a Resistance to Law Manipulation, since he's acting independently of the natural laws rather than manipulating them himself
• Agree
• Already exists on his profile (his Black Asta form passively withered the surrounding plants)

• Yami and Nacht:
  • Supernatural Willpower: I don't now why this didn't get approved, but this scan have more than a year old.
  • Pocket Reality Manipulation for Nacht: Monument of Atonement allows to seals his opponent in a world of shadows.

Agree with both of these

• Yuno:
  • Supernatural Willpower: After being possessed by an elf and hearing Asta's determination to become Magic King, his will allowed him to keep his soul intact.
  • Information Analysis: Due to being a Wind Magic user, he has an extremely good magic sensor, allowing him to detect enemies and attacks. He also should scale to the detection of the Lightning Magic users like Luck or Gaja.
  • Attack Reflection: Spirit of Notos creates a shield that creates a strong current of wind that redirects attacks that hit the shield.

• Agree with this
• Agree with this, though the first reasoning you gave isn't that good. I'd use the reasoning of scaling to the detection of Luck and Gaja due to being a Wind Magic user.
• This is just a shield which defends him from incoming attacks. "Rebuff" also means "to reject," not "to reflect," so there's no indication the attack is being reflected back at Lucius. Yuno should just get a higher durability rating with Spirit of Notos

• Mimosa:
  • Information Analysis: Mimosa's specialty is mana detection and she can differentiate magic power between different races. Therefore, she sould scale to other characters who have a extremely good magic sensor.
• Julius:
  • Temporal Sealed: Julius was able to seal Conrad and the Imperial Sword temporarily. This also scale to Lucius, but I believe he need a thread only for him.
• Grey:
  • Matter Manipulation: His magic allows her to disassemble the structures to assemble them like other.

I think Mimosa's would just be an especially potent case of Extrasensory Perception. Differentiating magic power between different races isn't grounds for Information Analysis, especially since each race is noted to have a different kind of magic power, like devils having magic that is notably sinister.

Everything else is fine though. Julius's ability should just be called "Sealing" like how it is on VS Battles Wiki

• Jack:
  • Non-Physical Interaction: Able to interact with his blades of mana.

Disagree with this. He's solidifying his magic into solid blades, which is how he can cut his opponents

• Zagred:
  • Rage Power and Body Control: When he gets angry, he can open more mouths in his body.

Disagree with Rage Power, as this is simply Zagred's full power, as Charla and Yami state immediately after. Agree with Body Control though

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I revised the profiles and they don't have this. With Nacht strange me because in the tecnics section explains that and when I go to the hax seccion he doesn't have it. With Jack is the same thing for example.

Click on reply on my post so that I don't miss your messages.

• Limited Ki Manipulation for all characters: All wizards unconsciously control Ki and transform it into magic power.
• Text Manipulation: Wizards can create magic paswords writting with mana in the are.
• Acelerated Develoment, Reactive Evolution and Empowerment: Wizards can develop new spells thanks to the increase in their emotions. This is also consistent with this other scans. So they can have supernatural willpower to? I going to talk later for the supernatural willpower.
• Limited Mana Manipulation: Tabata stated that when someone performs a spell, they unconsciously grab the natural mana to cast it. However, when someone uses natural mana, such as mana method users or elves, they have better control of mana and therefore can have an increase in power. For them it would not be limited and they would also have Statics Amplificaciont. In summary: Mana Manipulation is limited for everyone, but for those who use natural mana it would not be and it is also added Statics Amplificaciont.
• Mana Projection: This goes hand in hand with the above hax. Tabata stated that mages are capable of casting Magic Bullets without the need for a grimoire.

Aside from Text Manipulation (which is fine btw). The rest are already on the pages or are supposed to be on the pages based on past accepted revisions. We (mostly @Epsilon_R tbh) are currently working on improving our pages. It is quite a slow process, but we will get there. Feel free to help us out.

Some things that are not General:

• Limited Animal Manipulation: Tabata did a ranking to rank the characters from best to worst, based on the most favored by animals, for what it might qualify for it? This hax only is applicable for the first five of the ranking.
• Ki can Detec Objets that have no life. Ki can Detec invisible people.
• Enchanced Aura: Those who were possessed by the elves gained some of their magical power.

Enhanced aura is already on the pages (or are supposed to be) under "Aura".

Invidual Hax:

• Asta:
  • Supernatural Willpower: Asta have 5/5 of Willpower in the databook. Asta could get up in the gravity of Lucifero with his willpower, even being extremely weakened and in not conditions to fight.
  • Dimensional Storage: His grimoire acts like a dimensional storage since his swords storage there and he can invoke from there.
  • Limited Law Manipulation: Lucius stated that the Anti-Magic flies the natural law.
  • Black Asta should have all the Resistences given by Mana Skin since act similar to that technique.
  • Resistance to Heat and Electricity Manipulation: Tank a lighting.
  • Limited Death Manipulation: Zetten combine with Anti-Magic wither the plants.
• Yami and Nacht:
  • Supernatural Willpower: I don't now why this didn't get approved, but this scan have more than a year old.
  • Pocket Reality Manipulation for Nacht: Monument of Atonement allows to seals his opponent in a world of shadows.
• Yuno:
  • Supernatural Willpower: After being possessed by an elf and hearing Asta's determination to become Magic King, his will allowed him to keep his soul intact.
  • Information Analysis: Due to being a Wind Magic user, he has an extremely good magic sensor, allowing him to detect enemies and attacks. He also should scale to the detection of the Lightning Magic users like Luck or Gaja.
  • Attack Reflection: Spirit of Notos creates a shield that creates a strong current of wind that redirects attacks that hit the shield.
• Mimosa:
  • Information Analysis: Mimosa's specialty is mana detection and she can differentiate magic power between different races. Therefore, she sould scale to other characters who have a extremely good magic sensor.
• Julius:
  • Temporal Sealed: Julius was able to seal Conrad and the Imperial Sword temporarily. This also scale to Lucius, but I believe he need a thread only for him.
• Grey:
  • Matter Manipulation: His magic allows her to disassemble the structures to assemble them like other.
• Jack:
  • Non-Physical Interaction: Able to interact with his blades of mana.
• Zagred:
  • Rage Power and Body Control: When he gets angry, he can open more mouths in his body.

Asta:
Supernatural Willpower: Already on the page but i don't mind more justifications.
Dimensional Storage: I Agree
Limited Law Manipulation: Lucius stated that the Anti-Magic flies the natural law.
Resistance to Heat and Electricity Manipulation: Addition justification if it isnt there already.
Limited Death Manipulation: Should already be on page
Asta already has mana skin resistance

Yami and Nacht:
Im sure these are already on the pages if not they should be cuz its already accepted

Yuno:
I agree if its not on the page for some weird reason.

Mimosa:
Yes but not just her. I agree

Julius:
I agree

Grey:
I Agree

Jack:
Agreed, this should apply to all mages too btw. Unless you think that manipulating or interacting with mana and magic power doesn’t count.

Zagred:

Devil Physiology (Black Clover)

Devils are an ancient race of magical and malevolent beings that dwell in the Underworld, a bleak world where the only amusement comes from tormenting each other and toying with the humans of the living world. Normally, devils cannot appear in the living world on their own. A mage in the living...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also feel free to check out the following CRTs. I should probably see which I haven’t added yet.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/black-clover-crt-raw-talent-max-prestige-more-additions-2-of-3.140014/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/black-clover-crt-the-underworld-1-of-3-additions.138745/

 

[ElAlekaPL]

Sorry for being late to response, I went to sleep xd.

Alright, time to go through these one by one (assuming these abilities aren't already on the profiles):

I read a lot of time the profiles and athe ability aren't there.

Mana Manipulation isn't an ability. Neither is Mana Projection. I'd say the latter can fall under Energy Projection, though.

I thought that this could be understood inmediatly, but I think I doesn't explein well. I know that the hax isn't an abality, but my idea was to linked to energy manipulation.

• Being liked by animals doesn't give you Animal Manipulation, not even a limited form. If a dog likes me, that doesn't give me Animal Manipulation
• This would be Extrasensory Perception, which Ki users already have
• Mages already have Aura, so this is pretty redundant. The most I'd advocate for is an addition to the justification, saying that this aura becomes more potent when the mage is possessed by an elf (if they were possessed by an elf in the story)

• I know that, that's why I cuestion if could cualificed, because I know is kinda sus.
• I only share more scans to the ki. The first one is the most important, beacuse this provides that ki is a better hax than before since they not only detects living beings, they can also detect objects and that means it can detect everything. It's just an improvement to the Extrasensory Perception of Ki users.
• I know they have aura, I don't think I explained it well. This can also provide the forcefield creaton to mages like Luck and also this can be a buff for the stamina after being possesed.

• I'd actually consider this a Resistance to Law Manipulation, since he's acting independently of the natural laws rather than manipulating them himself
• Already exists on his profile (his Black Asta form passively withered the surrounding plants)
• This is just a shield which defends him from incoming attacks. "Rebuff" also means "to reject," not "to reflect," so there's no indication the attack is being reflected back at Lucius. Yuno should just get a higher durability rating with Spirit of Notos

• I didn't considered a resistence before, Is more ajusted to the context of the series.
• I know this alrredy exist in Black Asta form, but this is for base Asta.

I think Mimosa's would just be an especially potent case of Extrasensory Perception. Differentiating magic power between different races isn't grounds for Information Analysis, especially since each race is noted to have a different kind of magic power, like devils having magic that is notably sinister.

I make more sense

Disagree with this. He's solidifying his magic into solid blades, which is how he can cut his opponents

Like Arnorld says, one solution can be putting NPI for all people, since they can interact with mana in more ways.

Disagree with Rage Power, as this is simply Zagred's full power, as Charla and Yami state immediately after.

I didn't remember this, and I have the physical chapter, how stupid of me .

Aside from Text Manipulation (which is fine btw). The rest are already on the pages or are supposed to be on the pages based on past accepted revisions. We (mostly Epsilon_R tbh) are currently working on improving our pages. It is quite a slow process, but we will get there. Feel free to help us out.

I don't have problem to help with the pages, I know how painfull is editing more than 70 pages, I'm not a noob. For the rest, I revised the profiles a lot and I didn't saw the haxs there.

Also feel free to check out the following CRTs. I should probably see which I haven’t added yet.

Most of the hax I wanted to put in the thread were in those threads lol.

 

[Faa_Tzy]

• • Limited Law Manipulation: Lucius stated that the Anti-Magic flies the natural law.

Disagree about this, Where is it that anti-magic violates the laws of the world? That's just hyperbole statement, because Asta's Anti-magic doesn't literally break the law. If that's the case, provide proof.

 

[Xinsignia1]

Disagree about this, Where is it that anti-magic violates the laws of the world? That's just hyperbole statement, because Asta's Anti-magic doesn't literally break the law. If that's the case, provide proof.

It's actually consistent with what's been shown in the series. Dante states arcane stages are those that manipulate natural laws Asta was also confirmed to be an arcane stage mage so it tracks. Julius' time magic was also stated to "transcend" natural laws in the official guidebook, and he is also a confirmed arcane stage mage. Moreover, mana isn't even magic, it's simply stated that mana is "super natural energy" and that it's something fundamental that exist yet anti-magic can still slash it apart and even erase it. Magic is only one application of mana, but not the only application.

So i'm not sure why that should be considered a hyperbole.

 

[Faa_Tzy]

It's actually consistent with what's been shown in the series. Dante states arcane stages are those that manipulate natural laws Asta was also confirmed to be an arcane stage mage so it tracks. Julius' time magic was also stated to "transcend" natural laws in the official guidebook, and he is also a confirmed arcane stage mage. Moreover, mana isn't even magic, it's simply stated that mana is "super natural energy" and that it's something fundamental that exist yet anti-magic can still slash it apart and even erase it. Magic is only one application of mana, but not the only application.

So i'm not sure why that should be considered a hyperbole.

Only the statement that the arcane stage is able to manipulate the laws of nature, then where does it do that? What is needed here is a statement that corresponds to the events that occurred. And I am also confused why mana is referred to as "fundamental"? Even though it is known that mana is natural energy, which can be converted into magic power. And also, the problem here is why do you relate Asta's Manipulation law statement in the op with Mana? Even that has nothing to do.

Even if it's literal, I'll support it too.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Only the statement that the arcane stage is able to manipulate the laws of nature, then where does it do that? What is needed here is a statement that corresponds to the events that occurred.

to various feats, such as megicula's curse magic that causes anyone who mentions her name to be cursed, Morris who is able to fuse two grimoires so that one person can use two spells which is considered something that goes against the laws of magic, Vanessa who is able to manipulate the laws of nature (in particular chance and probability) to manipulate fate, Yami who with his magic of darkness is the key to opening and connecting the underworld and its layers that are being torn apart through a barrier that prevents any being with Mana from passing

 

[Xinsignia1]

Only the statement that the arcane stage is able to manipulate the laws of nature, then where does it do that?

That's not the only statement. For one, laws let's just establish what natural laws are, or just "laws" our wiki standards consider laws as "rules, mandates and even fundamental logical principles/truths/facts that are the way in which a reality may function" They're essentially aspects or principles or logics that government reality," mana is fundamental mean it always existed and is a part of that verses foundation. This is further supported by the fact that mana also exist in other dimensions, Regardless, that's not the only statement considering, there are several other times that "natural laws" are brought regarding arcane types. As stated earlier, the raws from the official guidebook describes time magic as "great magic that transcends the laws of nature" (also arcane) Vanessa's thread magic was stated on separate occassions to manipulate natural laws. Witches are described women who specialized in special magic, including familiars. Once they elves saw the effect of Vanessa's fate manipulation make all of her attacks miss via her familiar Rouge, they once again stated that she was manipulating natural laws . Regarding the other arcane attributes, dark magic was stated to interfere with the underworld a completely different different dimension . Even Anti-magic is considered a natural counter to time magic, since the only other known counter which is wind x star magic had to be artificially made.

What is needed here is a statement that corresponds to the events that occurred. And I am also confused why mana is referred to as "fundamental"?

What other statements? Mana isn't simply just a form of energy, Tabata already defined what mana is, it's defined as "supernatural energy" not "a" supernatural energy or even magical energy that fundamentally exist in the world and inside people. In addition to the viz translation + the raws used the term "超常的なエネルギー" which translates to paranormal/supernatural energy which is very specific.

Things that are fundamental can't be broken down further and Tabata treats it as such, yet anti-magic can slash mana apart and erase it, I'm sure the Tabata was intentional about his intent when Lucius stated anti-magic violates natural laws, considering every other instance and usage of that term were of instances that manipulation some type of foundation of reality, causaility or concept of the world around them, no? so what about that would be hyperbolic?

Even though it is known that mana is natural energy, which can be converted into magic power. And also, the problem here is why do you relate Asta's Manipulation law statement in the op with Mana? Even that has nothing to do.

Even if it's literal, I'll support it too.

This might be a bit extensive, so bare with me. Mana can be found in nature, but it's not natural, it's supernatural/paranormal. The term for natural mana is shizen no mana 自然 の マナ which simply means "mana from nature" or "supernatural energy from nature" it's simply denoting where the energy is coming from, not what the energy is. In Japanese the "no" aka "の " denotes "of" or from when Tabata wants to describe a different type of energy, Tabata does not use "no" beacause it implies something else entirely. It tells us nothing about the actual nature of the energy, only where it's coming from. For example the raw kanji for described ki as 「せいたいエネルギー seitai enerugī」 which directly translates to "vital/bodily energy" ( which could be considered a type of "life energy" but that's distinct from "life force"「生命力 seimeiyoku」 and using that actually kills you/deteorites you, ki (life energy)=/= life force ) I guess I'm saying life energy, and life force are actually two separate things. There a few times where viz mistakingly translated "life force" as "life energy" but they're actually different. Anywho, much like how mana is described as 「超常的なエネルギー" chōjōtekina enerugī」 which translates to "supernatural energy" magical power is 「魔力 maryoku」 not 「魔法の力 mahō no chikara」 and anti-magical power is 「反魔力 anchi maryoku」 life force is 「生命力 seimeiyoku」 (which is different from ki)

The term "natural mana" is an adjective that just describes where the supernatural energy is coming from, which is nature. The nature of the energy is supernatural, but it has a natural quality.

Mana is supernatural energy that exist in reality, which also extends to other dimensions. Negative mana is fu no mana 負の マナ which again literally means "negative supernatural energy" not "magical energy" and just like regular mana, it can be used for other non-magical, yet supernatural phenomena, so there's an intent for it to be all encompassing considering mana can still be used for non-magical applications? Tabata has gone through great lengths to not only differentiate various energies, but also the was very selective with the term "natural laws" and used it in specific circumstances.

 

[ElAlekaPL]

Bump

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Bump

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

It seems that Asta's law manipulation would not be limited

Asta with law-based Powernull looks cool :V

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I mean if he didn’t have Law Manipulation people like Vanessa wouldn’t be able to manipulate natural laws with her anti magic rogue

 

[Xinsignia1]

It seems that Asta's law manipulation would not be limited

Asta with law-based Powernull looks cool :V

That actually has me wondering if our wiki/definition of mana needs to updated. Because the canon definition is "supernatural/paranormal energy" that is invisible, and can only be felt, while our wiki just says "a form of energy" its never been defined as "magical" so does that mean it just means any supernatural energy in general? (Just spit ballin) because we've already seen mana used in ways that are not considered "magical" in verse, but yet still "supernatural"

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I mean I did say that in the Fairy Tail vs Black Clover stuff. That Mana is just a supernatural energy innate to the BC world like FT’s particles. And kept getting told it’s magic despite magic being the refinement of the supernatural energy and not the energy itself like Etherano is to magic in FT.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I mean I did say that in the Fairy Tail vs Black Clover stuff. That Mana is just a supernatural energy innate to the BC world like FT’s particles. And kept getting told it’s magic despite magic being the refinement of the supernatural energy and not the energy itself like Etherano is to magic in FT.

The fact that you brough a verse match shows that your resentment is still on

 

[Epsilon_R]

"Mana「マナ Mana」: A form of energy that is fundamental and invisible. It exists absolutely everywhere in nature and can make home into a living creature. Elves and Spirit Magic users are known for their ability to manipulate Mana."

I wrote it as clear and easy to understand on the verse page.

 

[Xinsignia1]

I mean I did say that in the Fairy Tail vs Black Clover stuff. That Mana is just a supernatural energy innate to the BC world like FT’s particles. And kept getting told it’s magic despite magic being the refinement of the supernatural energy and not the energy itself like Etherano is to magic in FT.

I mean, you're not wrong (infact I agree with you) I'm just wondering if adding the supernatural bit would make things clearer since things often get conflated. Like is mana a form of supernatural or any supernatural energy in general?

Because I think there might be some bits that need to be examined. For curses are stated to not be magic: https://i.ibb.co/6NXTDs3/not-magic.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/jZ56kCF/william-s-scar.jpg

But curses can be combined with magic to create a different form of magic called "curse magic" which has the properties of both magic and curses. And curses are stated to use curse power instead of magic power (but it can be combined with magic power) And in turns out Asta actually used anti-magic to take out curse power specifically in early BC:
https://i.ibb.co/7tbxVWj/curse-0.jpg

And Rades specifically stated the shells were loaded with "curse power" 「呪力 juryoku 」: https://i.ibb.co/Kh1KD4p/Screenshot-20230906-152552-Shonen-Jump.jpg

So do we associate mana with any supernatural energy in general?
as in the energy necessary to do anything supernatural, whether it be magic, curses or even other supernatural arts/more?

 

[Xinsignia1]

"Mana「マナ Mana」: A form of energy that is fundamental and invisible. It exists absolutely everywhere in nature and can make home into a living creature. Elves and Spirit Magic users are known for their ability to manipulate Mana."

I wrote it as clear and easy to understand on the verse page.

I get that, which is fair, but should it also mention that it's supernatural energy? Which seem a bit more inclusive for all the other "supernatural phenomenon" it can empower

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

That actually has me wondering if our wiki/definition of mana needs to updated. Because the canon definition is "supernatural/paranormal energy" that is invisible, and can only be felt, while our wiki just says "a form of energy" its never been defined as "magical" so does that mean it just means any supernatural energy in general? (Just spit ballin) because we've already seen mana used in ways that are not considered "magical" in verse, but yet still "supernatural"

yes , and in my personal opinion it has always existed more as a building block of the verse , I had already mentioned this in the BC thread once , however the conversation was lost when I said that mana also fits as a type 2 concept as well '-'

 

[Xinsignia1]

yes , and in my personal opinion it has always existed more as a building block of the verse , I had already mentioned this in the BC thread once , however the conversation was lost when I said that mana also fits as a type 2 concept as well '-'

I see what you mean, a change like that probably would require some time to put together (because that's pretty massive) but I can see the argument depending on what supernatural energies applies, and I can also see arguments against it, and I think there might be a case for it thought. The discussion could be tabled for now, depending on how people feel, but i'm definitely open to discuss with others, and get their thoughts down the line or whenever, cause this has piqued my interest.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Bump

 

[Xinsignia1]

Bump

I just came across something quite interesting, it seems raw mana doesn't physically exist since it cant be seen, physically felt, touched, smelt, tasted or heard. It's not physically sensed, since it can be sensed without any of your 5 senses. The narrator states Yuno detected mana after all 5 of his senses were shut off meaning the only thing that he had access to was his mana, not even his ki which is comprised of his physical senses, and requires you to use all 5 of your senses (or at least one if you're that good)

And then here it's stated that mana is the origin of souls which again suggest that it's some fundamental supernatural force, yet it completely devoid of physical interaction in it's most raw form.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

I just came across something quite interesting, it seems raw mana doesn't physically exist since it cant be seen, physically felt, touched, smelt, tasted or heard. It's not physically sensed, since it can be sensed without any of your 5 senses. The narrator states Yuno detected mana after all 5 of his senses were shut off meaning the only thing that he had access to was his mana, not even his ki which is comprised of his physical senses, and requires you to use all 5 of your senses (or at least one if you're that good)

And then here it's stated that mana is the origin of souls which again suggest that it's some fundamental supernatural force, yet it completely devoid of physical interaction it's most raw form.

There are several things in addition to this that also prove that mana is a fundamental building block, for example when Patolly has his mana corrupted along with this his entire being was corrupted as his body, soul, mind, Grimoire and body (ch 196), the The characters' mana zone allows them to manipulate the mana of their element in a given area (ch 138), resulting in them having full control over the element of their magic in this area and there are several examples with Yuno using the existing wind to form attacks and defenses (ch 132, EP 84, 100), Loropechica having total control over the Water of the kingdom of heart(ch 227 EP 128), Zenon having total control over space(ch 276, 305), Nacht having control of all shadows( ch 272, 280) also has many other things that imply that mana is abstract such as Henry sensing the mana of the other Black Bulls when they were inside Dorothy's World of Glamor (ch 183/4) which is made of dreams (ch 222), Mereoleona who with her Hellfire Incarnate which assimilates her body a lot with the mana being able to burn the arms of Morris's modification magic (ch 358) which is declared conceptual (ch 311/2)

Sorry for not linking any links, my Imgur doesn't want to open