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BB (Fate/Extra CCC) Revisions - Part 1* (almost done here)

I guess BB'S concept hax don't get an upgrade and stay type 3 rip

I agree with the rest of the stuff though
 
No her original concept hax rating came from the first part of the justification and ignored the part about auxiliary concepts afaik

Expunging the concept of the world in the nasuverse is type 3 on its ow

I'm also ten billion percent sure that the Auxiliary Concepts part just means the supplementary or backup concepts and had nothing to do with field theory
 
From the way I understood Acausality type 4, I would say yes to that, due to her merging with the Far Side.

Higher dimensionality is discussed in another thread.

The rest is fine, though some of those abilities she already has.

Her conceptual manipulation is at least type 3, due to the meaning of "concept of the world". It was also used to reconstruct the Far Side so that others can exist there.
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Concepts BB seems to have control over
Concept of Time https://i.imgur.com/x7qgg2V.jpg

Concept of observation of the passage of time (How time is percieved)

Concept of distance

Possible Concept of Reincarnation

The Concept's of " an Entrance, Exit, and Limit's"

The Concept's of "Soul, mind, and body."

In the world of Extra CCC the Soul is redundantly stated to be an addtional axis of movement and is a higher dimensional plane, but meh.
Click to expand...
.......

Will respond to other things later

This is for those saying for a downgrade
 
Someone called me for an evaluation, let's do it i guess:

Possibely Acausality, or not??? (Type 4 - She absorbed the Mooncell, and merged with it both becoming one with each other. Thus, merging, and absorbing the Angelica Cage, where past, present, and future are merged together in parallel with each other becoming the same. Also, by using Tiamats data of "Existing across all space-time." She became Omnipresent in both the Near Side of the Moon, and Far Side of the Moon. Where both sides of the Moon have a different set of laws than reality, and are different to each other. BB was also able to come across the far side, and near side of the moo while retaining all her memories, and was perfectly fine despite, BB herself , putting the entire Near Side of the MoonCell on a continous loop .)
Well the first Acausality feat from BB where, basically Past, present and future became one is not type 4 since you're still bound by time itself, it's more a kind of Type 2 Acausality, which allow you to not being affected to temporal attacks such as Paradox or Temporal causality manipulation such has the Almighty from Yhwach since you aren't "present" in the future but your only version is in the present

Higher-Dimensional Existence (BB's mind only - Her mind exist in a higher dimensional setting. This allows her to see all of history like a book along with all alternate realities, and their history. The Mooncell also computes, and anlayzes the infinite outcomes, possibilities, destinies in under second. This is done passively as she can read the past, present, and future simultaneously, and all at the same time.) Note: This is 4D only, and an extremely high degree of 4D.

From this quote, indeen, it's pretty straightforward,it's even explained that she see the third dimension as a flat things and even the draw analogy, it's 4-D from being able to see the third dimension as a fiction, about the specificity of it, he is completly transcendent of 3-D being

Sense Manipulation , and Perception Manipulation (Was able to take Gilgamesh's basic senses over, and make him believe he is seeing Saber. Through use of her BB channel she can take over a group of people's sense of hearing, and sight. )

This one is fine too, it's clearly explained how this worked

Power Modification (BB created the Noble Phantasm's of the Alter Ego's by fusing together, and transforming the abilities of multiple goddesses, and this is how BB's Noble Phantasm "Cursed Cutting Crater" also come into existence.)

Even if there is no scan (and i understand why), it seem fine from my tiny knowledge of the verse

Aura (BB's aura caused intense fear in the Main Character, and caused the main character to freeze in place with the air pressure around him increasing to almost crushing levels. Her aura also causes the Main Character to stop breathing, and induces paralysis. This was caused by her skill "Aurea Bocula: Golden Grail")

I agree with Diinou HotHead about this one, it's not really passive according to his explanation but more an ability

Paralysis Inducement (By directing the power of "Potnia Theron" at the Main Character. He/She became paralyzed, and unable to move, or breathe. )

Look fine too

Resurrection and Summoning (BB's shapeshifting tentacles not only absorb other beings, but can also revive them, and make them work for her. She also summoned Archer Robin Hood )

Resurrection and Summoning is fine too.

Acid Manipulation (BB's shapeshifting tentacles cause beings to melt away, and be liquified . He sentiels can also corrode things away )

Ehh Never expected that BB has tentacles, but the ability is pretty straightforward

Transmutation , Energy Manipulation , and Information Manipulation (Her Shapeshifting tentacles also turn the affected target into information to be absorbed )

This isn't Energy Manipulation nor Transmutation (even if it look like), it's only Information Manipulation plus Absorption of being able to turn the target into information and absorb those information

Absorption (BB can asborb her targets in their entirety soul, mind, body, and their memories along with information, by use of her Shapeshifter's)

I agree with this too, this case of absorption negate Mid-Godly Regenerationn since it asiimilate their existence insteads of destroy them, basically, they are now a part of BB's existence so nothing no regenerate

Telepathy , and Possession (BB can project her consciousness into others, read their minds, and communicate with the affected target )

Fine too.

Electricity Manipulation (BB was able to summon lightning strikes )

Pretty agree

Stealth Mastery , and possibily Invisibility (She was able to remain undetected by the Mooncell while sneaking between the Far Side of The Moon, and The Near Side of The Moon. All that she has done in the Mooncell was kept undetected, and kept secret from the Mooncell itself )

I agree.

Morality Manipulation (BB was able to make Rin, and Rani her servants that work for her )

Fine i guess

Now about Conceptual Manipulation:

" Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3. Can expunge the concept of the world and its auxiliary concepts and replace them with one of her own choosing with C.C.C.)"

However, "Auxiliary Concepts" is an actual scientific term apparently.

From what i read, Auxiliary Concepts are apart of "Lewin's Topological System." The Concepts covered in it are the nature of force, topological space, nature of causality, nature of field, concept of analysis, aspects of law formation and topology. Topology is a non-metrical geometry of spaces, in which concepts such as "inside" and "outside" and "boundary" are used

"Lewin explains the individual behaviour on the basis of life-space. An individual's life-space depends on his psychological force. It includes the person; his drives, tensions, thoughts and his environment, which consists of perceived objects and events."

"Lewin's theory is called field theory as to a psychologist field means the total psychological world in which a person lives at a certain time. It includes matters and events of past, present and future, concrete and abstract, actual and imaginary ― all interpreted as simultaneous aspects of a situation. Lewin states that each person exists within a field of forces. The field of forces to which the individual is responding or reacting is called his life-space."

"Lewin's system leans heavily on concepts derived from topology, a branch of higher mathematics that deals with transformation in space, from vector analysis, or the mathematics of directed lines and from the sciences of chemistry and physics concepts as Valence, equilibrium and field force. Lewin's most important publication is Principles of Topological Psychology (1936)."

From what i can understand i see from the Field theory, is that it's a psychological theory concerning Human's behavior due to other factors, the formula B = f(p,e) illustrate that if B is a concept (here it's noted "Behavior"), it depend of p (the person's perception) and e (the environement) all those factor influence B, if B is a concept it's influe,nced by those factor, same for the "Life Space", it's is the combination of all the factors that influences a person's behavior at any time, represented as thie formula B=ãÆ(LS)=F(P,E), basically, LS is producted by P & E and all are the Behavior (concept) and as this theory's description say in wikipedia, it depend of Subjective view, which it isn't the case for Aristotelian and Platonic Concept, they are the same all of time

This theory of Concept mainly depend of Human's perceptions, if human think like that because of the P and E, so B will be different basically an objective view, if we consider B as a concept it depend of those factor, It's Type 4 Conceptual Manipulation

About the other Concept stuff, where they are? i want to take a tiny look at them.
 
The Causality said:
Aura (BB's aura caused intense fear in the Main Character, and caused the main character to freeze in place with the air pressure around him increasing to almost crushing levels. Her aura also causes the Main Character to stop breathing, and induces paralysis. This was caused by her skill "Aurea Bocula: Golden Grail")
Click to expand...
I agree with Diinou HotHead about this one, it's not really passive according to his explanation but more an ability
Acid Manipulation (BB's shapeshifting tentacles cause beings to melt away, and be liquified . He sentiels can also corrode things away )

Ehh Never expected that BB has tentacles, but the ability is pretty straightforward
Well, I was talking about how the Aura and Paralysis aren't the same thing. She paralyzes you with Potnia Theron, and passively has a fear Aura around her. But it was noted the aura might be from Aurea Boura. So, passive Aura via Aurea Boura?

Tentacle thingy. It's what FGO Players call "Shapeshifters" and these are like her favorite familiars. But while it was listed as Acid Manip here, I think it fits Corrosion Inducement much better.
 
1. Acausality Type 4: Seems about right, having your past, present and future fused together should cause your cause and effect to break down, and so I agree with Type 4.

2. Then, if she doesn't, she should get Supergenius intellect and and Higher Dimensional Existence, if what is all there is true.

3. Perception manip seems fine if what is there is true.

4. Memory manip seems fine.

5. She should get fusionism and power mod.

6. Aura and fear manip seems fine, as well as Air manip as it seems she can influence it using her aura.

7. Paralysis inducement seems fine.

8. Absorption, resurrection and mind control and summoning.

9. Acid manip seems fine.

10. Information manip seems fine.

11. The big boi.

Now due to the Nature of Platonic concepts, they don't function like any other (besides Archetypal concept), from what you described, while good, isn't what a Platonic (False or True) is:

Platonic concepts where made by Plato to describe how he could imagine the perfect version but never see it, and so Platonic concepts are where all other things spawn from, where the Platonic concept is the unified perfect and all encompassing version of this expression like: "Circle, beauty, Fire".

This seem closer to classical theory of concepts than Platonic.
 
Low-Godly is regen from your body being removed from existence.

Mid-Godly is regen from your mind/soul and body are erased.
 
Added these:


Corrosion Inducement (BB can corrode objects )

Immortality (Type 1 - She is an AI, and is she is existent throughtout all of history. Type 5 - BB has Tiamat's Authority, and all her data. Tiamat's in born nature is to never experience death, death will never find her . Type 8 - BB is merged with the concept of time itself after absorbing the Angelica Cage of the Mooncell where past, present, and future are processed in parallel. Type 9 - The Soul resides in a higher dimensional setting with an addtional axis of movement. ) Note: Type 9 is 4D only at the very least.

Regenerationn Negation (Up to Mid-Godly - By use of her Imaginary Spiritron Trap, she assimilates the target's existence instead of destroying it. This is achieved by absorbing their Mind, Body, and Soul.)

Possible Abstract Existence ???? (Type 2 - She is fused with history itself. Existing in the past, present, and future all across space-time. She is essentially one with the concept of time itself)

I changed the Conceptual manipulation stuff since people disagreed with it

Regarding the "Transmutation, Energy Manipualtion, and Information Manipulation"

She is breaking down the mind, body, and soul into data to be absorbed. Does this sound like transmutation? Also, energy manipulation comes from data being a form of energy they are being transmutated down into energy then absorbed? if that makes sense. I just woke up lol
 
Became one with the Concept of Time isn't Type 8 since it isn't stated that as long as time exist, she would come back, she is time so if time exist she exist, she doesn't regen. it's Type 1 Abstract Existence.
 
Corrosion looks nice, it may also qualify for Corruption as well.

For Immortality, Type 9s are usually reserved for those who uses avatars while the main body is in a higher dimension, just to point out.

I think Regen negation is not necessary, the mechanics of the absorption is more like "eleminating" the target beyond Regenerationn, rather than negating the regen.

Just as The Causality said, for the Abstract thingy.
 
Also, the first scan for Acid Manip in the OP isn't actually refering to BB's Shapeshifters. It actually noted that Shapeshifters DON'T melt their victims down.
 
Diinou HotHead said:
Also, the first scan for Acid Manip in the OP isn't actually refering to BB's Shapeshifters. It actually noted that Shapeshifters DON'T melt their victims down.
Click to expand...
Whut???

So corruption manipulation too??? May i ask how it qualifies for this???

Ah i didn't know type 9 was reserved for true body stuff lol

The Regenerationn negation i'll just leave there for discussion but i won't add it i guess.
 
Well, the Corrosion is still legit, as she still has some other corrosion feats & statements, like the one you linked in the Corrosion part.

I was just saying that the scan I noted can't be used for justification.
 
Diinou HotHead said:
Well, the Corrosion is still legit, as she still has some other corrosion feats & statements, like the one you linked in the Corrosion part.
I was just saying that the scan I noted can't be used for justification.
Click to expand...
Rani :: …So it seems. However, the phenomenon we just witnessed may be more advanced. BB's shapeshifters are "predators," capturing their target as it is and incorporating it as part of themselves. Essentially, BB would absorb her prey without dismantling them, and use them as part of her memory. There is some possibility that if we defeat BB the Servants and NPCs she consumed can be saved. However…what we just witnessed was "assimilation." All the programs that forms the NPCs' selves were melted away, and once they were reduced to simple masses of information, they became part of this Labyrinth. In other words—

Rin :: They were made into the Labyrinth's floor while still alive. Though now they don't have limbs or egos, they're nothing but memory.

Rani :: …that is how it appears. The NPCs are part of the rules, and would be dismantled with the end of the Holy Grail War, but that is not dissimilar to the religious concept of reincarnation. NPCs, new or old, are made as the Moon Cell portions out its calculating functions. Even if they're deleted, they could still be given a new role. However…this removes them from that framework. The data we just saw liquified and absorbed will never change. They're now…fixed and assimilated in the Labyrinth floor. Though their lives as NPCs have ending, until this Sakura Labyrinth is destroyed, they will never have an "ending"…

I copied and pasted the scan i used. These are simply just "Aspects" of what acids "Can do" Melting, and liquifying a target. Its also noted in the first paragraph that this was caused by BB's shape shifters.
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
So corruption manipulation too??? May i ask how it qualifies for this???
Click to expand...
Not really sure about it. I mean, she may "corrode" as in corrupting something to the point it corrode away. And the fact she seems to refer to "corrosion" as her gradual absorption of the Mooncell.
 
Milly Rocking Bandit said:
Also that mortality manipulation is just mind manipulation.
Click to expand...
Isn't Morality manipulation a subpower of mind manipulation just more specific?
 
Diinou HotHead said:
Not really sure about it. I mean, she may "corrode" as in corrupting something to the point it corrode away. And the fact she seems to refer to "corrosion" as her gradual absorption of the Mooncell.
Click to expand...
Ah i see your point. Here is another one.

"This has gotten ridiculous. BB threatening me into cutting my contract with Gilgamesh, saying she'll "end everything" if I don't obey. Of course I don't know if that's true or not. BB has corroded the far side of the Moon Cell and consumed many Servants, but even she isn't that powerful…I'd like to think."
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
(wall of texts)
Click to expand...
"I can tell what Rin's feeling even over the transmission. Rin and the others also felt disgust and fear come over them at that repulsive sight. Is this… Is this the same as BB's black noise, I wonder?

Rani :: …So it seems. However, the phenomenon we just witnessed may be more advanced. BB's shapeshifters are "predators," capturing their target as it is and incorporating it as part of themselves. Essentially, BB would absorb her prey without dismantling them, and use them as part of her memory. There is some possibility that if we defeat BB the Servants and NPCs she consumed can be saved. However…what we just witnessed was "assimilation." All the programs that forms the NPCs' selves were melted away, and once they were reduced to simple masses of information, they became part of this Labyrinth. In other words—"

Basically, Hakuno wonders if this is the Shapeshifters's doing. But Rani replies that melting its victims is not what Shapeshifters do.

In fact, if I recall, it was actually Melt Virus's doing.
 
Although, BB can still Absorb beings. She still doesn't dissmantle them, but assimilates them into her Sakura Labyrinth, or herself
 
Isn't Morality manipulation a subpower of mind manipulation just more specific?

I don't understand how it alters their morality. Really it's just... them being controlled.
 
  • Morality Control. A supernatural form of the ability. Using mind manipulating powers, the user can forcefully control the morals and loyalties of the target, making them their slave, right-hand-man or even just something who abides by their laws.
  • Perception Manipulation. Some uses of the ability can cause the target to view certain people as literal monsters, causing severe psychological stress, which can eventually make the target snap.
  • Complete Control. Complete Control, as the name may imply, is having complete control over one's morality, laws and view points of the enemy. This is effectively the same ability as Mind Manipulation.


Morality Control for making them her slaves, and changing their loyalty?
 
I guess its one of those instances where its a "Power that is too broad" and has many subpowers.
 
What does everyone think of her having Super Genius intellgence?

Supergenius: The highest level of non-omniscient intellect, possessed by those individuals with unfathomably superhuman intelligence and usually extensive mastery of most, or all, branches of science. Characters of such a scale tend to be super scientists capable of creating impossibly advanced physics-defying and reality-warping fantasy technology even with just household items, and outsmarting even other extremely intelligent individuals. Supergeniuses can often easily process calculations beyond modern humanity's combined capabilities on their own, and quickly come up with extremely complex plans.
 
I would agree with the other 2, but im unsure on it. I am thinking

At least Supergenius likely Nigh-Omniscient???

what are some other examples of Omniscient beings that aren't 1-A so i can get an idea?

Although, i do know of similar characters on the wiki that are labled Nigh-Omniscient for having similar capabilities.
 
Looking back at it, I'm unsure if it's anything past Extraordinary Genius. It merely analyzes and sees other realities, I'm not sure how it makes her smart.
 
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