Fate revision thread (continuation)

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

The chain branches:
CCC only: Baseline < Kiara < Lv.999 Meltlilith < Mooncell & Pre-Mooncell BB < Post-Mooncell BB < CCC Playables < Amaterasu

It then branches off at Kiara and goes:

FGO: CCC Kiara = Beast Kiara = Kama < Hindu Gods < Arjuna Alter & Super Karna

As for Authority chain, I think Buddha is somewhere above the Mooncell, but I don't see much that suggest he's above Post-Mooncell BB

Goetia would be above Kiara physically, since it was stated they are comparable threats to humanity but he focused more on raw destruction

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Would he scale above, or below the Hindu Gods though?

 

[Paul_Frank]

Considering the fact that it took all the hindu gods to keep Mara contained and that failed, and he should scale above Mara because of that whole complete beast thing, he would be above them

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

question, didn't GIlgamesh one-shot BB?

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

question, didn't GIlgamesh one-shot BB?

Nope. He just beat her up so hard she lost control of the Mooncell.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

"Kiara discovered her most excellent self among the multitudes of parallel worlds and fused with her. Bringing over the imaginary number phenomenon of the CCC world to the FGO world, she turned her own body into SE.RA.PH and grew by using Servants as a source of nutrients."

I think this statements is good enough to back the claim that Grand Order Kiara is equal to CCC Kiara at strongest, due to "her most excellent self among the multitudes of parallel worlds and fused with her". It would be safe to say that "most excellent" implies her strongest version.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Also, does anyone have the scan of BB merging with the Far Side and stalemating the Moon Cell? I think UpgradeMan posted it in some thread, but I can't find it.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Didn't we already have a scaling chain when they see buffed up to High 3-A/Low 2-C?

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

It's not really discussed on how the scaling was. Heck, there's still "Kiara is above BB" and "BB can't do anything to K&K" in the profiles.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yare yare.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

I wanted to discuss those things. Most agreed, even on "Kama thread" that Kiara doesn't actually have feats of being above BB, so that should be removed.

"BB can't do anything to KK". I don't know where that came from, because the actual feat is KK preventing passive deletion from the Moon Cell. I don't remember an instance of BB fighting Karna. Karna was forced to work for BB because she would simply throw Jinako into imaginary numbers space if he didn't comply.

 

[John985]

I said this before. Nasuverse run on compatibility thing. You can be stronger than someone and also weaker. Just like Herc vs Asterios in Okeonos, in pure stats Asterios above Herc, but Herc is use to fighting monster and he was able overpower him.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

I said this before. Nasuverse run on compatibility thing. You can be stronger than someone and also weaker. Just like Herc vs Asterios in Okeonos, in pure stats Asterios above Herc, but Herc is use to fighting monster and he was able overpower him.

That would be the likes of: K&K resisting Mooncell erasure (Karna outright said it), Angra Mainyu/CCC nearly oneshotting the Player (Specifically kill things with desires)

 

[Paul_Frank]

The BB can't affect k&k comes from it resisting the passive deletion.

It resisted the deletion because the authority of the armor exceeded that of the mooncell completely, BB uses the authority of the mooncell for the majority of her stuff besides her EMG stuff so that's where that comes from.

It's basically Mooncell can't do anything to k&k so BB who uses the mooncell's power also shouldn't be able to

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

That is an invalid argument. It should just include "prevented deletion by the Moon Cell".

Non-boosted Gilgamesh resists deletion by the Moon Cell. Still, boosted Gilgamesh gets deleted by Cursed Cutting Crater. That's why it's important to be accurate. She has stuff from gods and stuff from the Moon Cell. Cursed Cutting Crater, for example, is full output of both of those power sources.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I have more to say but I'm at work ;~;

 

[Paul_Frank]

Yeah it should probably just say that the mooncell can't do anything to k&k instead

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

We'll fix those minor stuff. I think that we all agree on upgrading all the current low 2-C characters, with Kiara being the link between CCC and Grand Order.

Worst case scenario, we know which characters are diretly involved with this, so we can undo revisions on those who maybe shouldn't get upgraded.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Saying it resist BB would mislead people thinking it also resist Potnia Theron and Ten Crowns EX as well. Plus, the feat is actually resisting the SE.RA.PH. reset at the end of Extra.

 

[Paul_Frank]

The authority of Surya, the god backing the armor, is supposed to be above the authority of the mooncell via the whole Sun>Moon thing

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Indeed. Though, I assume the armor still grants him resistance to basic "Authority abilities".

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

The authority of Surya, the god backing the armor, is supposed to be above the authority of the mooncell via the whole Sun>Moon thing

Yup, Karna explicitly stated that. But when facing other Authorities, it ranks somewhere in the Hindu Gods category.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Oh yeah, by the way, are there any Nasu characters who can regenerate from just their soul? They should have type 9 immortality by default due to the whole higher dimensional souls thing

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Enkidu can.

Don't know how characters with Independent Manifestation work with this. Can they manifest themselves into reality whenever they want?

 

[John985]

Well, you can argue that every servant should have type 9. Because they're true self is in the throne of heroes. Because servant is just a copy of they're true self.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I'll give Enkidu type 9 since the higher dimensional soul thing was already accepted

 

[Paul_Frank]

Characters with independent manifestation are able to manifest themselves wherever and whenever they want. They could manifest themselves within the past or the far future in any location.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

So, should those characters also have type 9? In a functional way.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

People like Tiamat should, since they have some kind of quazi higher form that they are manifesting from

 

[SleepyTBubble]

IIRC type 9 is more along the lines of "Hey i am being who's true self exists elsewhere, kill me all you want. I'll just keep coming back and you can't do anything unless you hit the true me".

I don't think Servants would actually have it since you're more or less summoning a copy of themselves.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Soul is the true form of beings. Physical form is just a container.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

IIRC type 9 is more along the lines of "Hey i am being who's true self exists elsewhere, kill me all you want. I'll just keep coming back and you can't do anything unless you hit the true me".
I don't think Servants would actually have it since you're more or less summoning a copy of themselves.

I don't think all servants have it. Just ones with independent manifestation, like Merlin (Who already has type 9, mind you)

 

[John985]

It's not combat applicable for Servants outiside of Merlin and the Beast.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Give it to Gilgamesh, maybe. He has Independent Manifestation in Extra universe.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

The Regenerationn upgrade got aproved btw, but I am gonna need help updating all the Servant profiles. Maybe we can give all the servants combat inapplicable type 9 then too. Solomon would be the only one with combat applicable type 9 on the throne of heroes record since he can summon himself from the throne of heroes

 

[John985]

And the resistance of Karna should be updated too. Like most of the abilities of BB should be added as resistance. I think Kama is included too.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The luck Stat stuff on another thread monarch approved of recently if anyone wants to find it. I can't link it because I'm at work. Sssooooo....


Also, we should probably discuss authorities at some point??? Because... We should really list everything they resist, and Grant on profiles... And I kinda want too see those scan justifications...

 

[John985]

For luck stat.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3344568

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Authority CRT should be next.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

We can't scale Karna's resistances from BB. We will need to discuss Authority abilities in general and resistances to those, but not here.

This is just for 2-A.