And Thus a New Shitsorm Was Born: Nasuverse Massive Speed Revisions

[FallenMaou2234]

yet masters can see Servants and command them. FTE clearly isn't constant.

It's more the only reason it's not constant is for the sake of the plot, so certain masters can serve as narrators to give us the play by play on servant combat in the setting of the novel

Which is why given that a lot of showings indicate that Servants are FTE to masters makes the most sense we still get Inconsistencies here and there for the sake of the narrative

 

[FallenMaou2234]

I don't think it was really intended for comedic effect, since Nightingale just before and after in the same singularity proved she is trigger happy and reckless

Yeah exactly reinforcing that fact thay she is trigger happy

 

[CrystalValley]

First she does specifically say that the richocheting is the main issue add on top of that the small space plus the fact that they were fired by Helters and Nightingale doesn't make this much of an Anti-Feat and additionally this is before Mashu-Sama got her Ascension which amped her so much she was able to Solo Saberlot so it doesn't even matter.

Helters are fodder and there is no reason that those bullets should be any different from normal and would be consistent with what we've constantly seeing. and I don't see how it ricocheting in a small space changes anything. actually, normal humans with guns assist Servants in combat even against those units and can avoid dying instantly to them even if they are outmatched.

and since when are ascensions anything more than a gameplay mechanic? regardless ascensions aren't amping Servants from supersonic to relativistic.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Helters are fodder and there is no reason that those bullets should be any different from normal and would be consistent with what we've constantly seeing. and I don't see how it ricocheting in a small space changes anything.

and since when are ascensions anything more than a gameplay mechanic? regardless ascensions aren't amping Servants from supersonic to relativistic.

They are an actual thing you think of examples like Maou Nobu, Cu Alter, Kotaro in Shimousa, Mash in Camelot, Even Zhuge Liang in the accel Zero event. Ascensions are definitely an actual thing, and Mash went from literally having to high tail it to the mountains the moment he arrived because they were outmatched to beating Saberlot one on one wit no help so idk that's a pretty big jump. and that's assuming that servants are Supersonic in the first place which on this site isn't exactly true

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

.... Question, how is the progress for Servant Speed? It is obvious, but might as well try to get a direct answer.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

.... Question, how is the progress for Servant Speed? It is obvious, but might as well try to get a direct answer.

Well votes favour it being accepted but were waiting on some input from people tagged by Ant to finally conclude the thread

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Awesome!

 

[DaReaperMan]

Helters are fodder and there is no reason that those bullets should be any different from normal and would be consistent with what we've constantly seeing. and I don't see how it ricocheting in a small space changes anything. actually, normal humans with guns assist Servants in combat even against those units and can avoid dying instantly to them even if they are outmatched.

and since when are ascensions anything more than a gameplay mechanic? regardless ascensions aren't amping Servants from supersonic to relativistic.

The bullets that are richocheting are from Nightingale. You know, a servant. and fodder tends to be somewhat of a threat in FGO regularly, you speak as if calling them fodder automatically means they fit what you want, and spoiler alert, Helters are made and developed by a servant in both S4 and S5, so they also scale to weaker Servants and such since they actually tend to pose a threat.

Ascensions are acknowledged throughout FGO as being amps, from Caster Guilles stating it cause he was pissed to Mash gong from "run the **** away or be overwhelmed" right to "take on one of the strongest members of the Round Table and one of the most skilled individuals in the series" in S6.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Shouldn't Shiki also have irrelevant Lifting Strength? judging by the BDE page it says one possible use is an irrelevant LS, should be same as the Root which has irrelevant LS.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

yet masters can see Servants and command them. FTE clearly isn't constant

The point is that your claim that Rin is normally as fast as Saber/Archer is false. Being able to perceive them is not the same as being able to physically keep up, and when they get more serious she can't even perceive them.

adaptions even if canon are overshadowed by the original source material whenever they clash.

Not necessarily correct, especially since we are talking about a complex multiverse; in the vast majority of cases both different portrayals co-exist rather than clash.
Also the anime can retcon the source material. For example Atrum (tan blonde oil baron playboy mage with magic-tech child sacrifice factory) retconned Caster's Master who was originally described as an unremarkable middle aged man. Atrum is a character in Lord El-Melloi's Case Files which is in the exact same timeline as Fate/Stay Night, and Nasu jokingly acknowledged the retcon.
In Fate/Zero's novel, Kayneth carries Volumen Hydrargyrum in a large vase that has weight-reduction Magecraft added to it. In the anime he is carrying Volumen Hydrargyrum in a small test tube. In official FGO art, Kayneth is portrayed carrying Volumen Hydrargyrum in a test tube like with the anime.

but she was keeping up with Caster before that. are you saying her jewels amp her from supersonic to relativistic? why didn't she just use that from the start then?

If Caster wanted to crush her rather than toy with her she would.
Because she needed the element of surprise to get close.

they don't because they have too many anti feats.

Begging the question.
Also why won't said anti-feats reflect on Tsukihime?

i have never seen on screen lightning timing or anything that couldn't be aim dodging.

There are quite a few lightning users in Fate, even if they aren't the main villain of the story. A small handful of examples:

Tesla begins the battle during a cutscene with his lightning Noble Phantasm, which also has durability-negation by dislocating space-time:



Katsushika stating she can easily dodge or deflect lightning attacks like she does with bullets and arrows:

Katsushika Hokusai All right! Now that I got a look at the tall drink of water's face, I've got a pretty good handle on what it entails, and I'm ready to take it all on my own self! Arrows? Bullets? Cannonballs? Lightning? Bring 'em! I'll handle 'em all without breakin' a sweat!

Svin deflects lightning and blitzes a stronger lightning attack:

And so they gained control of a power considered to be entirely within the realms of the gods in any number of ancient lands. Utilizing that power, they accrued tremendous prosperity. And of course, in having access to that power, spells that manipulated the weather came only a few steps later. “Rage (Gush Out).” With those words, the electricity became an enormous hand. The speed with which it attacked was on par with that of lightning. Powering through the resistance in the air as if it was nothing, in the blink of an eye it struck out at the boy. In answer, the phantasmal wolf roared. Both were techniques overflowing with magical energy. Lightning and Sound - though the medium was different, the motive force behind both Mysteries remained unchanged. In short, the greater Mystery would no doubt overwhelm it’s opponent. As the lightning and the howl made contact, they threw off invisible sparks that deflected the rain around them, whirling together into a mess of magical energy that rapidly broke down. It appeared to be a tie. Though in terms of power Atram’s lightning was certainly the stronger of the two, once the rain and wind washed awaythe ensuing cloud of dust, the phantasmal wolf Svin had become still stood defiant. [...] How deeply must those words have struck home? Atram’s eyes were wide, boiling over with rage. Drawing forth many times the amount of magical energy he had used earlier through his Magic Circuits, he activated his Crest while pouring it into the Battery. The spell bought by the Galiasta family converted that magical energy into lightning with the utmost efficiency. It was like a dragon. Anyone looking at that scene would surely be able to envision the jaws of that terrible creature opening wide before him. Brooking no attempts at flight, the lightning-born dragon soared forward to swallow Svin - who disappeared a moment before contact. With a speed no human’s eyes could follow, Svin leapt away.

Alcides deflects lightning launched from the Gate of Babylon:

A large distortion in space formed beside him. “...how well that pelt of yours can recognize the works of man.” From the air to his left, blazing white flames. From the air to his right, shining silver liquid. To be precise, the liquid itself was colorless, but the moisture in the air around it froze instantly, giving its appearance a silvery gleam. As they were in the King of Heroes’ treasury, both fire and liquid must have been human creations. They were joined by manmade thunderbolts, and the storm of fire, ice, and lightning assailed Alkeides. “...” Alkeides, for his part, drew his bow back especially far. The longbow bent back. Just as it seemed about to snap in two, it was released... and “it” took form in the sky above the church. It were nine arrows shrouded in ominous magical energy whose twisting trajectories looked like titanic serpents. They covered the sky over Main Street like the Hydra of legend, devouring not only the onrushing Noble Phantasms, but flame, cold, and even lightning alike.

Mash reacts to Iskander's lightning:


Xuanzang reacting to Mordred's lightning:



Carnival Phantasm (Hollow Ataraxia was full of comedic scenes shrug) Cu deflects cloud-to-ground lighting:

when they start overshadowing the lower end statements in both consistency quantity and detail.

Vague. Your perception is anti-status quo so it would be helpful if you are more clear.
What is the quantity, given in numerical value, do you find reasonable?

i clearly have stated Nrvnqsr is one of the best even among the elite. but Nasu Servant comparisons to DAAs included all 27 in a general comparison.

So in general the knight class Servants are better than the average non-elite DAA, such as Vlov and properly Nrvnqsr base form. Where is the issue exactly?

that ability is canonically creating a mirror replica of the moon. not everything in fiction is drawn to size, like how you'll see the moon be vastly bigger than our real moon randomly in both Melty Blood and Tsukihime. but that is Type-Moon's moon drop which creates a mirror replica of the moon. that reality marble and piece of land has an unknown size to it. and again people have physically destroyed Nrvnqsr, which would at the very least require continental force.

In this case looks like weaker Arcueid only created a smaller replica of the moon. The size is drawn clearly; if it was large chunk of the planet's surface getting slammed it would be obvious.
Nrvnqsr was destroyed through Mystic Eyes of Death Perception hax, and destroying separately doesn't require as much force.

the Servant comparison is contradicted by feats from his own works and even from a lore perspective, since most of the Tsukihime cast can fight Arcueid, who is the strongest True Ancestor above Demon Lords that are above normal True Ancestors that are vastly above average DAAs. later things include some Melty Blood feats like Roa's lightning feats and the moon drop from the manga. though that canonically existed in the original game in 2002 as well.

Arcueid during most of Tsukihime is weakened due to creating a body despite MEoDP, and her power is capped by the Counter Force which adjusts her power level to be only be slightly stronger than her opponent. As shown in the remake, her unshackled power is represented by her Luminous form and Event Storage.
Otherwise a Servant as versatile as Gilgamesh would beat her per Nasu, and two Servants tag teaming her would likely win per Nasu. Ciel's most powerful prepped attack reaches Excalibur level, meaning that the rest are weaker.

Thoughts about the statement from Kiri Nanaya (who scales to Kouma Kishima) that he and his demon hunting clan can't dodge regular bullets?

Thoughts about the statement that Sion (whom Shiki found to be fast) isn't fast enough to dodge a bullet even if she predicts its path, despite the acknowledgment that she can keep up with Arcueid in the same statement?

i said it being light speed was put into question, but even if we do accept it, she needed help predicting it and its an outlier at worst.

So if she knows what's coming and isn't caught off-guard, Musashi can move fast enough to parry light speed attacks. Sweet.

this is such an arbitrary standard that makes no sense and isn't grounded in reasoning at all. i've already mentioned three from GO. here's two more even.

Mash also wasn't used to handling bullets from mechs made with magecraft.

If the "90%" percentage you claim has kept constant over the years, my standard wouldn't make any iota of difference from one that doesn't restrict the years. If my request becomes much more difficult if we add a recency restriction, then I have made my point.

A Servant firing her magical gun to destroy a prison cell, and magical guns from mech made with Magecraft. Sorry but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel; unlike what is requested the two examples are ambiguous at best and can't be considered serious arguments.

what are you talking about exactly? what do you mean by stat equalization on this site for Servants? i don't follow. FYI I'm not even here to downgrade them even though they should be. i'm just here to stop further speed upgrades on this thread.

Due to a large amount of repeated incidents where Servants with different physical stats keep up with each other regardless of their stats (even if one of them has Rank E Strength/Endurance/Agility), the difference between ranks is not considered significant. So almost all Servants get the same rating and scale with each other.

the power creep argument has been shot down already.

This isn't acknowledged by others in the thread so a declaration won't cut it.

Can you succinctly articulate why you think the argument is untenable?

 

[Antvasima]

So currently the things that are being proposed:
-Relativistic combat and movment speed with FTL reactions based on the calc in the OP

based on feats such as
-Katsushika Houkusai blocking attacks from Okita j. Souji who is stated to have a jetpack that allows her to travel at sub light speed
-Sigurd and every other servant who has ever fought Sherlock Holmes who possesses a Mystic Code that fires beams of natural sunlight
-Musashi intercepting Castor who was moving at SOL
-Santa Karna being stated to punch at speeds exceeding the speed of light in his skill materials
-Hessian Lobo dodging an attack in a microsecond and then a second trap even faster than that
-Saber and Diarmud being stated to be approaching the speed of light in their battle in the F/Z novel
-Achilles' chariot being stated to move at LS within its description in his materials

which is further consolidated by this:
Takeuchi: Also, not something we can bring to the forefront, but we updated the order of the Dead Apostle Ancestors.

Nasu: Back when we established the abilities of the 27 Ancestors, we thought having a cetrain levl of power was enough to make one a top ranker among Dead Apostles. But, judging our dear members of the 27 Ancestors by the post-Fate/stay Night Kinoko Fantasy standards, the ones who are just "relatively amazing" will have to leave... In our current era, having decent strength and abilities doesn't cut for someone trying to call themself a Dead Apostle Ancestor. I'm sorry, better luck next incarnation!

The world of Dead Apostle is in a tough fight for survival...

Nasu: Taking TsukiR's final destination into consideration, I organized which members needed to be laid off, which new members needed to be added, and which pre-existing members needed to be upgraded. That said, it's already been 10 years since I came up with the new Dead Apostle Ancestore lore, so now I regret not having made them a bit stronger.

Yeah, FGO has a series of world-threatening enemies, so the Dead Apostle Ancestors could feel lacking if strong enough in comparison.

Nasu: FGO introduced a lot of new lore. But FGO's scale is only that large because TsukiR was produced first and laid that groundwork. Without TsukiR, FGO would have ended as a much smaller story. In that sense, pausing TsukiR's production to produce FGO paid off, and we'll get the brand new experience of seeing people learning what those plot points they've seen in FGO were about.

which is an Interview by Nasu Kinoko the main author of Fate saying that he has adjusted the power levels of the franchise as a whole after FSN which supports the interpretation

@Antvasima counterarguments include the vast majority of feats being in the supersonic ranges and potentially even lower due to numerous characters of this tier struggling with bullets and many other feats and statements.

the opposition argues this should all be ignored due to a vague power creep statement from the author that never specifically mentioned the characters in question here.

the older series are canon still and the series with these high end feats also have those same low ends is a counterargument to that.

one could argue their current ratings of MHS are a good middle ground between supersonic and relativistic or higher.

the rest has just been people throwing feats at each other and cycling debating points and trying to argue which feats are more consistent and trying to reconcile low ends and high ends in their own ways and discussing who scales to who.

i know you asked Maou, but I was just throwing in the summary of the opposition here to sum up everything.

@Mr._Bambu @Sir_Ovens @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this please?

 

[Maxeez]

Damn, this is endless. Also, count my vote for the speed revision, pro side.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Other thing that could support FTL reactions and/or combat movements (so short/brief movements) wouldn't be Mandricardo barely reacting to Chiron NP in Atlantis?

I obviously agree with the upgrade btw though I don't think my opinion really matter, just remembered that case and wanted to point it.

 

[CrystalValley]

The bullets that are richocheting are from Nightingale. You know, a servant. and fodder tends to be somewhat of a threat in FGO regularly, you speak as if calling them fodder automatically means they fit what you want, and spoiler alert, Helters are made and developed by a servant in both S4 and S5, so they also scale to weaker Servants and such since they actually tend to pose a threat.

Ascensions are acknowledged throughout FGO as being amps, from Caster Guilles stating it cause he was pissed to Mash gong from "run the **** away or be overwhelmed" right to "take on one of the strongest members of the Round Table and one of the most skilled individuals in the series" in S6.

and we already know how fast Servants are consistently. that is to say not that fast. and normal soldiers could briefly survive and fend off the mechanized units that shot guns. so those guns clearly aren't abnormal in speed.

interesting thing to note on the ascension thing at least.

@ShadowWhoWalksThe point is that your claim that Rin is normally as fast as Saber/Archer is false. Being able to perceive them is not the same as being able to physically keep up, and when they get more serious she can't even perceive them.

except that she can as we've seen with Medea before she even amped herself with her jewels. Shirou was also able to defend against some attacks from a restricted Cu (who was still Servant level) even if briefly.

Not necessarily correct, especially since we are talking about a complex multiverse; in the vast majority of cases both different portrayals co-exist rather than clash.

you can't say two contradicting feats from the same series can coexist.

Also the anime can retcon the source material.

a much less detailed and descriptive adaption is certainly not overriding the original source material that is much more in depth and has more info.

Atrum is a character in Lord El-Melloi's Case Files which is in the exact same timeline as Fate/Stay Night, and Nasu jokingly acknowledged the retcon.

which doesn't mean all of the others are rectons, especially since it basically took an entirely separate series for Nasu to confirm the recton.

In Fate/Zero's novel, Kayneth carries Volumen Hydrargyrum in a large vase that has weight-reduction Magecraft added to it. In the anime he is carrying Volumen Hydrargyrum in a small test tube. In official FGO art, Kayneth is portrayed carrying Volumen Hydrargyrum in a test tube like with the anime.

from craft essences? using those as canon is pretty shaky to say the least.

If Caster wanted to crush her rather than toy with her she would.

Medea was superior certainly, but speed blitzing was never on the table for her clearly.

Also why won't said anti-feats reflect on Tsukihime?

because those are anti-feats for Fate scaling. though I don't care if Tsukihime gets downgraded due to Fate speed getting downgraded on this site.

There are quite a few lightning users in Fate, even if they aren't the main villain of the story.

i already know this. Telsa comes to mind immediately especially. but we never really see how people fare against said lightning due to the game. aim dodging is a possibility. do we actually have a lot of feats of Servants blocking lightning attacks or dodging them while they are firing?

Katsushika stating she can easily dodge or deflect lightning attacks like she does with bullets and arrows

the quote you sent sounds like boasting honestly.

Svin deflects lightning and blitzes a stronger lightning attack:

this is the best evidence you've brought so far. problem is we need much more for it to actually contend with bullet timer struggles and numerous speed of sound statements and measurements.

Alcides deflects lightning launched from the Gate of Babylon:

Strange Fake lightning statements are basically unusable because this is the same series that calls someone's arrow lightning speed then turns around and says it's the speed of sound.

Mash reacts to Iskander's lightning:

nothing showed she reacted to the lightning. looks like she just got down before it even appeared.

Xuanzang reacting to Mordred's lightning

two problems here. one, is said lightning magecraft lightning or even stated to be lightning. two, you're using the anime adaption. i mean i'm fine with that if we also properly downgrade Goetia to where he isn't 1-C or even planetary physically, considering he got damaged and contested by a group of Servants.

Carnival Phantasm

no.

Vague. Your perception is anti-status quo so it would be helpful if you are more clear.

status quo is irrelevant to reasoning and logic. and how more clear can i get? my reasoning is pretty straight forward.

What is the quantity, given in numerical value, do you find reasonable?

when we get enough lightning feats to start contesting supersonic and bullet timing feats. and not only in quantity, in detail and descriptions.

So in general the knight class Servants are better than the average non-elite DAA, such as Vlov and properly Nrvnqsr base form. Where is the issue exactly?

base Nrvnqsr is stomping other DAAs and Servants. and the issue is that SHIKI Roa, who isn't one of the top tiers is already a casual lightning timer and can go at least twice as fast as the speed of lightning due to MBAA.

In this case looks like weaker Arcueid only created a smaller replica of the moon.

nope. that ability is canonically a mirror replica of the moon. and that same Arcueid is already not too far off from Type-Moon in power. he's only about 70% stronger.

The size is drawn clearly

the moon in the same manga is also drawn to be 10x the size of ours randomly at times. it's not drawn to scale and we know how the ability works.

if it was large chunk of the planet's surface getting slammed it would be obvious.

they were in a reality marble with a landmass of unknown size regardless.

Nrvnqsr was destroyed through Mystic Eyes of Death Perception hax, and destroying separately doesn't require as much force.

he was killed by multiple Melty Blood characters that wouldn't have the hax to do that. he was even killed by White Len Tatari Nanaya who does not have MEoDP. and you cannot kill Nrvnqsr separately over time. you have to kill all of his lives at once.

Arcueid during most of Tsukihime is weakened due to creating a body despite MEoDP, and her power is capped by the Counter Force which adjusts her power level to be only be slightly stronger than her opponent.

her power isn't capped. Gaia can just boost here whenever fit. and Arcueid during Melty Blood is stronger than herself before she even got cut down by Nanaya, since she also got some of her power back from Roa.

As shown in the remake

Remake is a different canon with different logic. don't even know why you brought this up as an example. not even acknowledging it.

Otherwise a Servant as versatile as Gilgamesh would beat her per Nasu

Nasu's comparison of Gilgamesh Vs. Arc was just comparing how her Gaia backup is useless against certain types of enemies and how she is horribly matched against some. Gilgamesh is one of the best examples. but it was just a comparison of how he counters her and that ability so badly. when factoring in actual stats, he gets casually speed blitzed.

And two Servants tag teaming her would likely win per Nasu.

massively contradicted since DAAs couldn't do that. not to mention one of Nasu's comparisons between Arc and Servants he said was specifically "non-serious."

Ciel's most powerful prepped attack reaches Excalibur level, meaning that the rest are weaker.

Remake canon. invalid argument.

Thoughts about the statement from Kiri Nanaya (who scales to Kouma Kishima) that he and his demon hunting clan can't dodge regular bullets?

yep. too bad Kiri scales to no one of relevance in Tsukihime and Kouma was toying with him. and if you bring up some Nanaya potential comparison to Kiri, that never talks about stats. would be referring to assassination skills. White Len Nanaya beat the guy who soloed Kiri and his entire clan. just in case you try to bring that up out of context. we also don't know how strong the real Kouma is in comparison to his Tatari self born from Shiki's nightmares.

Thoughts about the statement that Sion (whom Shiki found to be fast) isn't fast enough to dodge a bullet even if she predicts its path, despite the acknowledgment that she can keep up with Arcueid in the same statement?

that was a complete metaphor. are you really serious right now? that's just silly dude. that was a metaphorical analogy of how Sion may know what Arcueid will do but can't stop it. why do you think she used the sinking ship analogy? that's just desperate on your part man.

So if she knows what's coming and isn't caught off-guard, Musashi can move fast enough to parry light speed attacks. Sweet.

outlier at worst. but she needed help predicting it and was so amazed by it that she thought it was vastly beyond anything a Servant could do. and it being light speed was already put into question.

If the "90%" percentage you claim has kept constant over the years, my standard wouldn't make any iota of difference from one that doesn't restrict the years. If my request becomes much more difficult if we add a recency restriction, then I have made my point.

don't really know what you're saying here.

A Servant firing her magical gun to destroy a prison cell, and magical guns from mech made with Magecraft. Sorry but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel; unlike what is requested the two examples are ambiguous at best and can't be considered serious arguments.

except the mechanized helters could be defended off by normal humans and their guns and canons.

Due to a large amount of repeated incidents where Servants with different physical stats keep up with each other regardless of their stats (even if one of them has Rank E Strength/Endurance/Agility), the difference between ranks is not considered significant. So almost all Servants get the same rating and scale with each other.

yes, i agree the stats aren't a huge difference. but being slightly below the average supersonic Servant would put you at subsonic and mana burst could amp you into the higher ends of supersonic.

This isn't acknowledged by others in the thread so a declaration won't cut it.

in terms of the CRT going through? maybe. in terms of what is reasonable and logical? what most think here is irrelevant.

Can you succinctly articulate why you think the argument is untenable?

the powercreep argument never even addresses Servants and just vaguely says that Fate has gotten stronger over the years, which could be referring to beasts or any number of things. to automatically assume it means servants and we can by extension ignore all low ends and all feats and statements from series that are still canon to GO is just false. it makes no sense and isn't grounded in reason. you guys are even ignoring mid tier feats like the supposed lightning timing. how is magecraft and natural lightning relevant if these characters are relativistic or higher?

 

[FallenMaou2234]

the powercreep argument never even addresses Servants and just vaguely says that Fate has gotten stronger over the years, which could be referring to beasts or any number of things.

You see then why aren't we applying the statment to "Fate" why can't it mean that both Servants have gotten stronger and stronger antagonists have been introduced why is it one or the other??? He said the entire Franchise as a whole has gotten a power boost, so why are we so intent on attempting to only apply it to what's relevant to our argument here?? That doesn't make sense if he said "FATE" got stronger then why are we picking and choosing when "FATE" includes servants and Beasts???

outlier at worst. but she needed help predicting it and was so amazed by it that she thought it was vastly beyond anything a Servant could do. and it being light speed was already put into question.

She never states that she thinks that its vastly beyond capabilities so I don't think this is a particularly reliable interpretation when she mentioned specifically that it was the weight and speed that suprised her making no reference to anything like whether she thought Servants were normally capable of it or not so I don't know about "she thought it was vastly beyond anything a servant could do".....

 

[Antvasima]

Have you reached any conclusions here yet?

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Have you reached any conclusions here yet?

I do think that currently those in favour of the revisions being implemented outweigh those that don't now but I'm not sure if we can go ahead and start applying them without the point of view of Knowledgeable staff members

 

[Antvasima]

Well, unfortunately it doesn't seem like any staff members that I have called for have been interested in helping out here yet.

Can you summarise what the consensus here currently leans towards accepting to be applied and why please?

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Well, unfortunately it doesn't seem like any staff members that I have called for have been interested in helping out here yet.

Can you summarise what the consensus here currently leans towards accepting to be applied and why please?

The consensus currently is that most would agree that Servants are Relativistic based on current showings as the author himself has stated that the franchise as a whole has gotten a power boost after the inception of FSN meaning a wide variety of lower end statments are now unusable and looking at current works the higher end interpretations become more consistent as a result and that's fine however FTL reactions for now should be given a "Possibly" as it seems there is definite opposition against that interpretation

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Mr._Bambu @Sir_Ovens @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this please?

Sorry I'm late to reply. Going off the post you linked I'm in favor of the upgrade. They seem consistent and if a power creep was made it wouldn't really matter if they struggled before. Also, the characters having low end feats aren't evidence against the upgrade unless they struggled to preform them.

So I agree with the upgrade so long as the characters don't consistently struggle with lesser fears. However if even after the power increase said characters are struggling with normal firearms on a consistent basis I'm going to disagree.

 

[Antvasima]

The consensus currently is that most would agree that Servants are Relativistic based on current showings as the author himself has stated that the franchise as a whole has gotten a power boost after the inception of FSN meaning a wide variety of lower end statments are now unusable and looking at current works the higher end interpretations become more consistent as a result and that's fine however FTL reactions for now should be given a "Possibly" as it seems there is definite opposition against that interpretation

Okay, and are there any reliable and accepted calculations with results of that level for the verse?

 

[Antvasima]

Sorry I'm late to reply. Going off the post you linked I'm in favor of the upgrade. They seem consistent and if a power creep was made it wouldn't really matter if they struggled before. Also, the characters having low end feats aren't evidence against the upgrade unless they struggled to preform them.

So I agree with the upgrade so long as the characters don't consistently struggle with lesser fears. However if even after the power increase said characters are struggling with normal firearms on a consistent basis I'm going to disagree.

Thank you very much for helping out so much. You are awesome.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Sorry I'm late to reply. Going off the post you linked I'm in favor of the upgrade. They seem consistent and if a power creep was made it wouldn't really matter if they struggled before. Also, the characters having low end feats aren't evidence against the upgrade unless they struggled to preform them.

So I agree with the upgrade so long as the characters don't consistently struggle with lesser fears. However if even after the power increase said characters are struggling with normal firearms on a consistent basis I'm going to disagree.

Thanks for the input

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Okay, and are there any reliable and accepted calculations with results of that level for the verse?

There is the Calc in the OP that has Mash at FTL after dodging mechanical lasers however whether or not it is reliable isn't my field expertise I know @Migue79 is part of the calculation group but I don't know really

 

[Maxeez]

Okay, and are there any reliable and accepted calculations with results of that level for the verse?

Yeah, the FTL Mash Calc in the OP (still maybe needs some input) and the various feats/statements with such speed degrees shown throughout the CRT.

 

[DaReaperMan]

and we already know how fast Servants are consistently. that is to say not that fast. and normal soldiers could briefly survive and fend off the mechanized units that shot guns. so those guns clearly aren't abnormal in speed.

Imagine calling soldiers from a Holy Grail "normal"

 

[Antvasima]

There is the Calc in the OP that has Mash at FTL after dodging mechanical lasers however whether or not it is reliable isn't my field expertise I know @Migue79 is part of the calculation group but I don't know really

Yeah, the FTL Mash Calc in the OP (still maybe needs some input) and the various feats/statements with such speed degrees shown throughout the CRT.

I see. This is probably fine to apply after the calculation in question has been evaluated then.

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Armorchompy @DMUA

Would any of you be willing to evaluate the following calculation blog, and then tell us here, please?

Grand Order: Mash dodges potential lasers

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Mr._Bambu @Sir_Ovens @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this please?

Without proof and statements I can only really work on a summary of the individual you quoted. I'm loathe to do it but if I have time I can try to parse through the sludge and mud to assist. Maybe send me a link to evidence, besides calcs? I want only the most relevant shit, mind. I don't want to read their entire anime/manga/gacha/what have you.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody here willing to help Mr. Bambu get something concrete to more easily evaluate please?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Alternatively, I could just go over the calc you linked, if that's all you need.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Alternatively, I could just go over the calc you linked, if that's all you need.

That would be much appreciated

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, thank you for helping out.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Without proof and statements I can only really work on a summary of the individual you quoted. I'm loathe to do it but if I have time I can try to parse through the sludge and mud to assist. Maybe send me a link to evidence, besides calcs? I want only the most relevant shit, mind. I don't want to read their entire anime/manga/gacha/what have you.

0.35 seconds of this clip is where the feat happens

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yes Bambu this is a secret to get you to watch weeb shit lol

 

[CrystalValley]

You see then why aren't we applying the statment to "Fate" why can't it mean that both Servants have gotten stronger and stronger antagonists have been introduced why is it one or the other??? He said the entire Franchise as a whole has gotten a power boost, so why are we so intent on attempting to only apply it to what's relevant to our argument here?? That doesn't make sense if he said "FATE" got stronger then why are we picking and choosing when "FATE" includes servants and Beasts???

because it's too large of an assumption just to completely ignore all feats from series that are still canon to GO. that makes no sense.

She never states that she thinks that its vastly beyond capabilities so I don't think this is a particularly reliable interpretation when she mentioned specifically that it was the weight and speed that suprised her making no reference to anything like whether she thought Servants were normally capable of it or not so I don't know about "she thought it was vastly beyond anything a servant could do".....

we're talking about the Musashi feat, yes?

"or perhaps, was it truly light itself? that sort of attack would be beyond the means of even a sword-saint!"

regardless, this somehow is likely to get accepted. so there's no point in continuing. no offense to you, but these interpretations have been debunked heavily. it's just that no one here seems to actually care and has completely arbitrary standards based on a vague powercreep statement that doesn't tell us anything.

 

[MrBallins]

Carnival Phantasm (Hollow Ataraxia was full of comedic scenes shrug) Cu deflects cloud-to-ground lighting:

I don't think that you should be using CP for feats... that aside, I do generally agree that you can put Servants at lightning speed (Even if there are anti-feats)

Imagine calling soldiers from a Holy Grail "normal"

Was there a statement of Mebd's soldiers being superhuman to some extent? Iirc the issue with them was their numbers

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Without proof and statements I can only really work on a summary of the individual you quoted. I'm loathe to do it but if I have time I can try to parse through the sludge and mud to assist. Maybe send me a link to evidence, besides calcs? I want only the most relevant shit, mind. I don't want to read their entire anime/manga/gacha/what have you.

5:37:42 Okita and Katsushika Houksai clash at full speed and Okita is stated to move at Sublight speed

The miraculous single hit emitted by over-boosting the super MAKOTO DRIVE engine installed in the jetpack.
Extreme jet acceleration beyond the physical limitations of any person causes the three-stage thrust to execute at sublight speed, which results in its velocity consuming the surrounding air and induces an outrageous power output that swallows up and annihilates the target's surroundings, despite it being a single target attack.

 

[MrBallins]

5:37:42 Okita and Katsushika Houksai clash at full speed and Okita is stated to move at Sublight speed

Tbh I am... kinda skeptical of using a lot of event feats. Remember that a lot of events are not even in the same continuity as the main FGO story and instead happen in a world where the Alien God took longer to arrive

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Why would a statement of sublight speed be noteworthy

Am I missing something

 

[HyperZero95]

Yeah, FGO has a series of world-threatening enemies, so the Dead Apostle Ancestors could feel lacking if strong enough in comparison.

So how is this proof that Servants had a power creep? World-threatening clearly refers to Beasts and such. It doesn't mean that Servants specifically got so much faster.