BB (Fate/Extra CCC) Revisions - Part 1* (almost done here)

[Diinou_HotHead]

Her Soul, and Mind reside somewhere higher, but her body? It became one with the Mooncell until you fight her at the end and sever her connectio

Wasn't the Mooncell Core, the one thing she actually merged (and got her mind taken over in the process) stated to be of "Recorded Universe" in nature though (basically the "Past&Present&Future are all the same thingy)

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Merging with the Mooncell's core also means merging with all the Mooncell. She was able to project a large image of herself sometime close to just before the Main character meets gilgamesh (and she herself stated that "I am the world" on that same chapter), and its continously stated that she exist in past, present, and future. Also, BB never got her mind taken over in the process until the very end. Which Rani, and Rin explain that its because her attention was shifted away from the Mooncell, and towards the MC, and her/his servant. but Past, Present, and Future is proccessed in parallel in the angelica cage of the Mooncell which is the 7th layer.


Anyways, as far as Abstract existence goes. Every BB that we see leading up to the final fight, is her past self, or possibly even avatars of her.

As we see her, because she became the Mooncell, and became one with time. She can communicate with her past selves . She is already in the past, and future. This was achieved by placing her self in the concept of "infinite time" (aka past, present, and future) thus she changed the entire history of the far side of the moon with that.

This is how she was able to absorb the Mooncell's core in both 0.00001 seconds, and 69 days before, aka "69 days ago." Her past self reached the core 0.00001 seconds ago, but because another version of her already reached the core 1st she using her authority she changed that outcone to happen 69 days ago.

So if we consider these "Past selves" of BB as being extensions of her, or avatars of the main one. Then perhaps Type 1 Abstract existence is what she is..

i probably very poorly explained that because i just woke up... im sorry..

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

bumping...

only conceputal manipualtion, and abstract existence are left to talk about realy it seems.. and immortalities*

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Looking back at the Regen Negation, is it really... negating anything? Absorbing isn't destroying anything, and it's only being destroyed on the level of mind, body, and soul AFTER they're absorbed. More so just bypasses Regenerationn, not necessarily testing it's limits.

 

[The_Causality]

Regen Négation = Preventing someone to regen. If someone is able to absorb your soul and integrate it in his body, it negate your regen since you can't regen your soul, it still exist, basically there is nothing to regenerate since the soul isn't destroyed.

It's a form of Regen Negation.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

@UpgradeMan Please, edit the OP so that people know which abilities were agreed upon.

Conceptual manipulation: I don't know if she should have type 2, but I definitely know it's nothing less than type 3.

Abstract Existence: Well, she is definitely getting this, but I am not sure which type.

Immortalities: Type 1 is a no brainer. She does not age and has eternal life. Type 5 is an interesting idea. Due to her having Tiamat's power an assumption that she also has her Type 5 Immortality has a valid basis and it isn't contradicted by anything, so I would agree to this. As explained above, I also agree to Type 9 Immortality because the Soul (which is the true form of being) exists in a higher dimension (separate plane of existence from the body). Would Type 9 be given to anyone else?

A thing to note is that, from what I've concluded, "higher dimension" does not imply 4D, but rather it would imply 5D. Since the description of a higher dimension from Extra CCC states that higher dimension views time (4th dimension) from a higher perspective, all of time at the same time, like a flat surface.

As always, constructive feedback is welcome.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

To be honest it just seems like it's bypassing it, really. I'll make a thread on it, since I kinda do understand what you're saying. If anything it should be it's own power, and have at least 2 types from what you're saying.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

@UpgradeMan Please, edit the OP so that people know which abilities were agreed upon.

I'll do that later. right now i only time to make comments or observe threads. Im away from my computer.. I am sorry...

if she is abstract existence with the concept time. does that mean she has reliant immortality??? or is that not enough??

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

As explained above, I also agree to Type 9 Immortality because the Soul (which is the true form of being) exists in a higher dimension (separate plane of existence from the body). Would Type 9 be given to anyone else?

A thing to note is that, from what I've concluded, "higher dimension" does not imply 4D, but rather it would imply 5D. Since the description of a higher dimension from Extra CCC states that higher dimension views time (4th dimension) from a higher perspective, all of time at the same time, like a flat surface.

How many people agree with this??

- we can try scaling abilities once we implement these changes if that is okay????? Although, i feel type 9 immortality would definetely extend to all gods based on Ishtar's statement.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

I think only Abstract Existence Type 2 gives you Immortality Type 8.

Can you post her statement here?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I added the "agreed" and "disagrees" but im not for sure if i got everyone's stance right... so i apologize if i misunderstood someone's stance on something...

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I think only Abstract Existence Type 2 gives you Immortality Type 8.
Can you post her statement here?

its these quotes: I guess considering that Ishtar is using Rin as a host body, and so is Ereshekigal. That could also be parasitic immortality, but im unsure....

https://i.imgur.com/UcGHEyW.png

https://i.imgur.com/Ozo97ZU.png

anyways.. how close are we to finalizing everything here???

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I don't agree with Supergenius, tbh.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I don't agree with Supergenius, tbh.

i'll subtract you from it.. I am sorry i misunderstood your intentions..

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

It's cool, don't fret.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

My stance on intelligence: Definitely supergenius. She was able to hack the Moon Cell which was considered impossible. Moon Cell's computing abilities are far beyond anything humanity can do.

Nigh-omniscient is debatable, but she definitely isn't omniscient, as that would require access to Akashic Records.

As to who would get immortality type 9 besides BB, Divine Spirits are definitely good candidates. But, it is said that soul resides within all intelligent life forms. Alter egos have it, servants have it etc.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Aren't souls in Nasuverse residing in higher D anyway?

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Yes, it seems so. But I don't think we can give Type 9 immortality to everyone, so, who is going to get it?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Aren't souls in Nasuverse residing in higher D anyway?

The souls are addtional axis of movement making them higher dimensional, but yeah there is a multitiude of statements on it

but im unfamilar with the Throne of Heroes but..... Isn't that where the true body of servants are stored, and do they use like avatar bodies to fight for them or something????? @everyone

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Yes, it seems so. But I don't think we can give Type 9 immortality to everyone, so, who is going to get it?

We could probably make a separate CRT for it after we get these other BB abiliteis out of the way..

Im just waiting for the Okay to add whats agreed upon before Monday morning chicago time...

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Yes, that would be a good idea.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Servants are like aspects of the true Heroic Spirits, as far as I know. Like, a certain part of their existence (The Warrior aspect for Extra Vlad, the king aspect for Apoc Vlad)

As for Higher Existence VS Soul, in my opinions the definition for higher D in Nasuverse is damn vague, the Ishtar&Da Vinci statement seems to indicate that higher D is somewhere inaccessible to humans, but that's it.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I guess now would also be a good time to bring up that basically all Servants have combat inapplicable type 9 immortality on their throne record, with only a few people like counter force agents able to actually use it in a combat applicable sense

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Would be nice for another CRT.

Anyways, restating my stance on the upgrades:

Acausality 4: Agree, by fusing with the Mooncell and Far Side, which are Recorded Space which do not have the same concept of time as the Observed Space.

Higher Dimension Existence: Agree, also by fusing with the Mooncell, which is a Recorded Space that Past, Present, and Future exist simultaneosly, and stated to see us like book, I think it qualifies.

Sense & Perception Manipulation: Agree, in fact, it was outright stated she did it.

Aura thingy: Agree, but personally I think being a side effect of a skill she passively has on her (She has Aurea Bocura in her... boobs) makes it passive in practice.

Transmutation thingy: Wasn't the scan the same one I told you it was Melt Virus's doing, and not the Shapeshifters? I mean, it was also blatantly stated Shapeshifters will absorb the victims as it is. But that said, I checked her Dialogue in FGO, and on her 3rd Ascension, she said she'll turn you into a pig if you want her to change into a nurse costume.

Telepathy & Possession: Agree with the Telepathy. No to Possession (Possession requires you to control the target as well). That said, I think she should get Astral Projection for this as well.

Immortalities: Agree for Type 1 and 5 (in fact, if the blue text narrating in the Jinako & Karna scene is Post-Mooncell BB, she outright stated she transcended Physical Death). As for why I disagree with Type 9, she is already Higher D herself, and Higher D for souls is still vague to me.

Abstract Existence: I prefer Type 3, as she's still using her normal body in combat, and if you destroy her physical body, I think BB dies, but at this point the Mooncell already dominated her personality, so, possibly 2?

Conceptual Manipulation: Again, staying Neutral for this.

Intelligence: I think Pre-Mooncell should be just Supergenius for the reasons you stated. But Post-Mooncell is Nigh-Omniscient for being the Mooncell having BB's personality as its judge.

Whatever I don't give my stance on is because I already agree for being so blatant.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Agree with most, if not all, of this

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Agree with most, if not all, of this

What ones are you Neutral on, or disagree with???

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Would be nice for another CRT.
Anyways, restating my stance on the upgrades:

Aura thingy: Agree, but personally I think being a side effect of a skill she passively has on her (She has Aurea Bocura in her... boobs) makes it passive in practice.

Transmutation thingy: Wasn't the scan the same one I told you it was Melt Virus's doing, and not the Shapeshifters? I mean, it was also blatantly stated Shapeshifters will absorb the victims as it is. But that said, I checked her Dialogue in FGO, and on her 3rd Ascension, she said she'll turn you into a pig if you want her to change into a nurse costume.

Possession: No to Possession (Possession requires you to control the target as well). That said, I think she should get Astral Projection for this as well.

Immortalities: 5 (in fact, if the blue text narrating in the Jinako & Karna scene is Post-Mooncell BB, she outright stated she transcended Physical Death).

Whatever I don't give my stance on is because I already agree for being so blatant.

So Aura should be Passive once she uses that skill???? Question... Im confused... is it passive.. or no???

I changed where possession is, is it possible that this quantifies as possession? "Information Manipulation, and Possession (Her Shapeshifting Tentacles "meld" with the affected target, and overwrites the targets Mind, body , and soul with it's own, new, informaito .)"

That was my mistake. I completely forgot i used that that scan for that. Though, i would need help obtaining that scan of her threatening to turn someone into a pig...

I disagree with astral projection... She was projecting her consciousness into Gilgamesh's mind basically. Or would that still quanitfy as Astra Projection???

That blue text you mention for type 5.. I was really confused on who was narratoring that lol

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Aura should be Passive once she uses that skill???? Question... Im confused... is it passive.. or no???

I changed where possession is, is it possible that this quantifies as possession? "Information Manipulation, and Possession (Her Shapeshifting Tentacles "meld" with the affected target, and overwrites the targets Mind, body , and soul with it's own, new, informaito .)"

That was my mistake. I completely forgot i used that that scan for that. Though, i would need help obtaining that scan of her threatening to turn someone into a pig...

I disagree with astral projection... She was projecting her consciousness into Gilgamesh's mind basically. Or would that still quanitfy as Astra Projection???

That blue text you mention for type 5.. I was really confused on who was narratoring that lol

Aura: IMO just think of it as a passive is enough. The player stated the fear was coming from the "power", not the "skill". Plus, near the end of the game where Post-Mooncell attempt to erase you, the Player subconsciously froze in place for subconsciously knowing the Mooncell is the Holy Grail.

New Possession: I still don't think it qualify, to quote the page "Possession is the ability of a character to take control of another character by entering their mind, body, or soul. It is different from mind control, as it is done internally instead of externally" However, It does qualify for for the new Transmutation's justification.

Turning into pig: Her Ascension 3 dialogue. I did cap it, but I don't have an imgur acc yet.

Astral Projection: Well, it was still a space in his mind, so I think it does.

Blue text: Yeah, it talked about "current me" and "not letting the Mooncell know" but Post-Mooncell BB, as far as I know, is the Mooncell taking over BB's personality while having her personality as its "judge"

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Plus, near the end of the game where Post-Mooncell attempt to erase you, the Player subconsciously froze in place for subconsciously knowing the Mooncell is the Holy Grail.

After a re-read, scratch this. The player was just damn afraid.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Aura: IMO just think of it as a passive is enough. The player stated the fear was coming from the "power", not the "skill". Plus, near the end of the game where Post-Mooncell attempt to erase you, the Player subconsciously froze in place for subconsciously knowing the Mooncell is the Holy Grail.

New Possession: I still don't think it qualify, to quote the page "Possession is the ability of a character to take control of another character by entering their mind, body, or soul. It is different from mind control, as it is done internally instead of externally" However, It does qualify for for the new Transmutation's justification.

Turning into pig: Her Ascension 3 dialogue. I did cap it, but I don't have an imgur acc yet.

Astral Projection: Well, it was still a space in his mind, so I think it does.

Blue text: Yeah, it talked about "current me" and "not letting the Mooncell know" but Post-Mooncell BB, as far as I know, is the Mooncell taking over BB's personality while having her personality as its "judge"

after re-reading do you still think its passive???

Not even mind possession?? She did project her consciousness into Gilgamesh in an attempt to control him but she learened she can't do that lel

Do you have the website where you got it from??? I don't have BB ascended yet ;~;

I do believe everything BB has is very reminscient of Tiamat. From how her tenatcles work, and Tiamat's black mud for example. How she exist throughout all history, and so does Tiamat, and the how the concept of death doesn't affect either. I got the screenshot of the blue text "being cut off from the concept of physical death."



As for Astral Projection : It appears they have to be a spirit/soul?? but for BB it was another form of her consciousness

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

so... do we have any last words on some of these???

which staff member should i get in contact for approval to add these..? Im thinking Monarch

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

after re-reading do you still think its passive???

Not even mind possession?? She did project her consciousness into Gilgamesh in an attempt to control him but she learened she can't do that lel

Do you have the website where you got it from??? I don't have BB ascended yet ;~;

I do believe everything BB has is very reminscient of Tiamat. From how her tenatcles work, and Tiamat's black mud for example. How she exist throughout all history, and so does Tiamat, and the how the concept of death doesn't affect either. I got the screenshot of the blue text "being cut off from the concept of physical death."

As for Astral Projection : It appears they have to be a spirit/soul?? but for BB it was another form of her consciousness

Yes. I still do.

I don't remember her saying she will control him. Just her disencouraging you and him from awakening Gil.

https://imgur.com/8DcO92v

Good. Also, maybe you could check on your scan's resolution, by the way.

I suppose you may be right. Maybe put "possibly" on it, and ask some more people?

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

I assume characters with Independent Manifestation are really op with Type 9 Immortality, since they manifest themselves whenever they want.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I assume characters with Independent Manifestation are really op with Type 9 Immortality, since they manifest themselves whenever they want.

if it is okay with everyone i would like to avoid type 9 immortality until someone makes another CRT about it.. seems like something that could apply to a lot of others throughout the verse.

I would like to immplement the additions soon before tomorrow...

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Yes. I still do.

I don't remember her saying she will control him. Just her disencouraging you and him from awakening Gil.

https://imgur.com/8DcO92v

Good. Also, maybe you could check on your scan's resolution, by the way.

I suppose you may be right. Maybe put "possibly" on it, and ask some more people?

Alright, i might have to word the justification differently

Which scan's have poor resolution so i can replace them with better????

Thank you for the transmutation scan!

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Yes. I still do.

I don't remember her saying she will control him. Just her disencouraging you and him from awakening Gil.

https://imgur.com/8DcO92v

Good. Also, maybe you could check on your scan's resolution, by the way.

I suppose you may be right. Maybe put "possibly" on it, and ask some more people?

Alright, i might have to word the justification differently
Which scan's have poor resolution so i can replace them with better????

Thank you for the transmutation scan!

Well, now they all have good resolution.

Maybe if I'm free enough, I might replace them with ones screencapped in-game, so downplayers won't go "Hey! You're just using random texts from a stupid website! You can't justify things with these!" (Even if the scans are capped from an Emulator)

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Do you know if its possibley to say "Abstract Existence (Type 3 likely to be type 1 instead)"????

If not.. then i would like to go with the safer lower end of "Type 3"

and is it safe for me to start adding these in...? the 1 admin i trust to give approval is busy it appears... haven't seem him online for a while but maybe make 1 or 2 comments on different threads.. and i have messages him twice.., and these all have been discussed extensively..

I start another work week tomorrow.. so if i don't get around to it today.. then i will wait until saturday, or friday of next week..

but i really don't want to get into trouble, or be banned for adding these...

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Lower end is always safer and can get fixed later. And you won't get in trouble since you are adding things that were discussed and agreed upon, even if someone doesn't like it or thinks edits are wrong, they can't accuse you of messing profiles up.

I think Monarch is the only staff member who participates in Fate revisions and has actual knowledge of the verse, so it can get hard to complete a revision.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

The arguments for her Abstract 1 are: She fused with history, and is one with space and time.

The arguments for Abstract 3 are: She's not reliant on it, she got beaten up, then she got separated from it. (She doesn't look like she fused with it hard enough)

Well, most people just give their inputs when the thread was just made, and points are not even discussed yet. So I don't recommend adding them yet.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

She still is merged with it even after she loses control of the Moon Cell, as there are no implications that she loses the fusion with the Far Side. But, it is unclear as to whether the Far Side needs to be destroyed in order for her to be killed, but the Far Side was destroyed in Gilgamesh's ending for example.

That's why I am more for Type 3. When something isn't clear, I prefer to go with what we can support in an argument, rather than speculate.