And Thus a New Shitsorm Was Born: Nasuverse Massive Speed Revisions

[FallenMaou2234]

regardless, this somehow is likely to get accepted. so there's no point in continuing. no offense to you, but these interpretations have been debunked heavily. it's just that no one here seems to actually care and has completely arbitrary standards based on a vague powercreep statement that doesn't tell us anything.

You say debunked but to be fair all you've done is deny the statmend made by Nasu as being vague and therefore unusable therefore lower end feats should apply and as a result the lower ends should be used and sure that's great and all if everyone else believes that the statment is vague as well but that obviously isn't the case here

I don't get what's so Vague about him saying "Post FSN Nasuverse standards would make DAA's redundant so he had to amp them" and why it's too large of an assumption when he obviously meant the Franchise as a whole but that's down to a difference in interpretations

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Why would a statement of sublight speed be noteworthy

Am I missing something

Because they clashed at that speed which would serve as evidence for Rel or were you looking specifically for FTL/SOL feats???

 

[MrBallins]

I don't get what's so Vague about him saying "Post FSN Nasuverse standards would make DAA's redundant so he had to amp them"

That's not what he said

He said that FGO has a series of World-Ending threats so the DAAs would feel lacking in comparison, since they are supposed to be Tsuki's big schlong baddies. He was talking exclusively about Beasts and Gods (who actually have SoL and FTL feats), not Servants

 

[CrystalValley]

You say debunked but to be fair all you've done is deny the statmend made by Nasu as being vague and therefore unusable therefore lower end feats should apply and as a result the lower ends should be used and sure that's great and all if everyone else believes that the statment is vague as well but that obviously isn't the case here

I don't get what's so Vague about him saying "Post FSN Nasuverse standards would make DAA's redundant so he had to amp them" and why it's too large of an assumption when he obviously meant the Franchise as a whole but that's down to a difference in interpretations

well Hyper and Ballins added two things that completely disprove Servants being factored in, so i don't need to comment further.

Beasts (supposedly) make the 27 DAAs seem not as strong in comparison, which is probably true for the most part, excluding the top-tiers like Roa, Nrvnqsr, Type-Moon, Type-Mercury, Primate Murder, Wallachia, etc that can fight the strongest True Ancestor. so Nasu probably wants to buff the normal DAAs beyond what he initially envisioned, even though we haven't seen normal DAAs in action in the original canon. this has nothing to do with Servants though.

 

[MrBallins]

Ballins

Aww, don't be shy~

You can call me *****

 

[FallenMaou2234]

That's not what he said

He said that FGO has a series of World-Ending threats so the DAAs would feel lacking in comparison, since they are supposed to be Tsuki's big schlong baddies. He was talking exclusively about Beasts and Gods (who actually have SoL and FTL feats), not Servants

You're quoting a different part of the interview there

"Back when we established the abilities of the 27 Ancestors, we thought having a cetrain levl of power was enough to make one a top ranker among Dead Apostles. But, judging our dear members of the 27 Ancestors by the post-Fate/stay Night Kinoko Fantasy standards, the ones who are just "relatively amazing" will have to leave... In our current era, having decent strength and abilities doesn't cut for someone trying to call themself a Dead Apostle Ancestor"

This is what he actually said pertaining to DAA's in other words "Post Fate/Stay Night" means that the entire franchise has gotten stronger after the fact

"FGO introduced a lot of new lore. But FGO's scale is only that large because TsukiR was produced first and laid that groundwork. Without TsukiR, FGO would have ended as a much smaller story. In that sense, pausing TsukiR's production to produce FGO paid off, and we'll get the brand new experience of seeing people learning what those plot points they've seen in FGO were about."

He says that the scale of the Plot itself has escalated so again Beasts, Servants, Antagonists, the stakes all of them apply here I don't know why were so intent on picking and choosing

 

[CrystalValley]

You're quoting a different part of the interview there

"Back when we established the abilities of the 27 Ancestors, we thought having a cetrain levl of power was enough to make one a top ranker among Dead Apostles. But, judging our dear members of the 27 Ancestors by the post-Fate/stay Night Kinoko Fantasy standards, the ones who are just "relatively amazing" will have to leave... In our current era, having decent strength and abilities doesn't cut for someone trying to call themself a Dead Apostle Ancestor"

This is what he actually said pertaining to DAA's in other words "Post Fate/Stay Night" means that the entire franchise has gotten stronger after the fact

"FGO introduced a lot of new lore. But FGO's scale is only that large because TsukiR was produced first and laid that groundwork. Without TsukiR, FGO would have ended as a much smaller story. In that sense, pausing TsukiR's production to produce FGO paid off, and we'll get the brand new experience of seeing people learning what those plot points they've seen in FGO were about."

He says that the scale of the Plot itself has escalated so again Beasts, Servants, Antagonists, the stakes all of them apply here I don't know why were so intent on picking and choosing

no.

This is what he actually said pertaining to DAA's in other words "Post Fate/Stay Night" means that the entire franchise has gotten stronger after the fact

that is never stated at all and is completely random extrapolation. the fact he mentioned world ending threats means the entire subject was in regards to that.

 

[MrBallins]

This is what he actually said pertaining to DAA's in other words "Post Fate/Stay Night" means that the entire franchise has gotten stronger after the fact

Weirdly enough, Servants in specific haven't. We just got feats affirming some statements about them (like Herk being able to bust mountains)

What made Fate stronger was the inclusion of characters that shit on Servants like Beasts, Gods, BB, etc. Every time the power bar is raised it isn't by a Servant

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Because they clashed at that speed which would serve as evidence for Rel or were you looking specifically for FTL/SOL feats???

Are you aware that "sublight" is just a phrase for "everything below the speed of light"?

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Are you aware that "sublight" is just a phrase for "everything below the speed of light"?

I thought Sublight meant "Respectable fraction of the speed of Light"

 

[DaReaperMan]

What made Fate stronger was the inclusion of characters that shit on Servants like Beasts, Gods, BB, etc. Every time the power bar is raised it isn't by a Servant

Fate Strange Fake: Am I a joke to you? (Enuma Elish being capable of nuking the world)

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Weirdly enough, Servants in specific haven't. We just got feats affirming some statements about them (like Herk being able to bust mountains)

Yeah and then Bunyan being able to destroy an entire mountain range and Dragons being able Destroy an entire country and Siegfried being able to match them.........so idk seems like a little escalation there

that is never stated at all and is completely random extrapolation. the fact he mentioned world ending threats means the entire subject was in regards to that.

Post-Fate Stay Night: am I a joke to you???
Nah but seriously if he says the entire story of FGO has escalated and he says that "DAA's aren't impressive Post-FSN" were just meant to say that post FSN only applies to everything except GO??? Because if you look at what was released after FSN originally its Mahoyo and FGO that were the first in a wave of new Type-Moon content so I don't know

 

[FallenMaou2234]

What made Fate stronger was the inclusion of characters that shit on Servants like Beasts, Gods, BB, etc. Every time the power bar is raised it isn't by a Servant

Weirdly enough I never said that Servants are raising the bar in fact I specifically stated that because the bar was raised by Beasts and LB kings like Yeetjuna increasing servant strength was necessary to keep up somewhat

 

[MrBallins]

Fate Strange Fake: Am I a joke to you? (Enuma Elish being capable of nuking the world)

Less impressive than CCC, actually, and not anywhere near Ea's full power considering that they were about to clash again with even greater force

increasing servant strength was necessary to keep up somewhat

Because Servants definitely win without special circumstances being in place...

Karna had to get a power boost as well as a training arc to keep up with a nerfed GodJuna, every other "Servant" that fights big pp enemies on equal grounds is not really a Servant but has some other circumstances in place

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I thought Sublight meant "Respectable fraction of the speed of Light"

Nosir. All speeds below the speed of light are "sublight".

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Less impressive than CCC, actually, and not anywhere near Ea's full power considering that they were about to clash again with even greater force

But I mean CCC is Extra and Extra is Welll.........built different

Karna had to get a power boost as well as a training arc to keep up with a nerfed GodJuna, every other "Servant" that fights big pp enemies on equal grounds is not really a Servant but has some other circumstances in place

Yup you're right on that front that going up against a beast isn't possible for a normal servant and that's not what I'm trying to imply I'm trying to imply that escalation has taken place same way Jeanne Alter was once a legitimate threat servant showings have steadily improved since FGO's inception, wheren in FSN the Strongest servant summoned (not including The King Of GG of course) being stated to be a Mountain Buster to Bunyan yeeting Mountain ranges with her NP

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Nosir. All speeds below the speed of light are "sublight".

You're sure about that, it's not like what Subsonic is to The speed of sound??

 

[MrBallins]

taken place same way Jeanne Alter was once a legitimate threat servant showings have steadily improved since FGO's inception

Jalter was a threat because she could control and summon dragons and also had several Servants with Mad Enhancement. If not for that then Siegfried would have slapped her ass on his own

You're sure about that, it's not like what Subsonic is to The speed of sound??

Yes it is, subsonic just describes anything slower than the speed of sound

 

[CrystalValley]

Less impressive than CCC, actually, and not anywhere near Ea's full power considering that they were about to clash again with even greater force

to be fair, everything in Nasuverse outside of like two characters have been massively less impressive than anything in the Extra series.

@FallenMaou2234 Nah but seriously if he says the entire story of FGO has escalated and he says that "DAA's aren't impressive Post-FSN" were just meant to say that post FSN only applies to everything except GO??? Because if you look at what was released after FSN originally its Mahoyo and FGO that were the first in a wave of new Type-Moon content so I don't know

Mahou was actually the first Nasuverse series back in 1996 that was always canon. the VN is just a public adaption. and everything released after FSN was every Fate series, including HA Zero SF Extra CCC and many others. the problem is that Nasu talked about world ending threats. average DAAs are not world ending threats. neither are Servants outside of potential Noble Phantasms that no one physically scales to.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Jalter was a threat because she could control and summon dragons and also had several Servants with Mad Enhancement. If not for that then Siegfried would have slapped her ass on his own

Hahahahha Damn Siegfried tapping Jalter booty now sumanai coming up in the world

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You're sure about that, it's not like what Subsonic is to The speed of sound??

I am absolutely certain. Technically subsonic means the same (everything below the speed of sound), but on this wiki we ascribe it a particular meaning for our speed ratings. We do no such thing for "sublight", nor would we inherently take statements of "subsonic" speeds to mean specifically our definition of "subsonic". It can be a bit confusing.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

I am absolutely certain. Technically subsonic means the same (everything below the speed of sound), but on this wiki we ascribe it a particular meaning for our speed ratings. We do no such thing for "sublight", nor would we inherently take statements of "subsonic" speeds to mean specifically our definition of "subsonic". It can be a bit confusing.

You learn something everyday I guess, well I'd still submit to you that the statment in that skill description Likley meant "a respectable fraction of the speed of light" given the context

~plus if that's the case I could wank and say that Okita is actually 99% the speed of light heheheh~

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Mahou was actually the first Nasuverse series back in 1996 that was always canon. the VN is just a public adaption

So what you mean to tell me is that I haven't been waiting 9 years for a Full official Mahoyo TL but actually 26.........................

 

[MrBallins]

You learn something everyday I guess, well I'd still submit to you that the statment in that skill description Likley meant "a respectable fraction of the speed of light" given the context

Well, technically speaking the first entry would be the Fate that Nasu wrote in Highschool, though that one is not official

 

[CrystalValley]

So what you mean to tell me is that I haven't been waiting 9 years for a Full official Mahoyo TL but actually 26.........................

yes. you can check the translation progress here however. a new team is almost finished. though they haven't updated in two months, which is a little weird.

Redirecting…

ghpages.hollow-moon.org

Mahou besides Aoko's moon busting feat that was also light speed doesn't bring too much new to the table, considering most of the characters in there are below Tsukihime characters by a lot until Aoko obtains the Fifth and Soujuurou.

Prime Soujuurou however is stated to be the strongest Type-Moon protagonist, so he should be comparable to Nanaya Shiki at his peak that vastly dwarfs 90% of the verse. so he's a serious heavy hitter. though he lacks hax, he shouldn't need it against most characters due to the speed he would have rivaling Nanaya's at his peak.

Alice is also strong with her abilities like summoning Flat Snark and various other things, but Mahou hasn't really brought a lot new to the table in terms of ground breaking physical stats and hax besides Prime Soujuurou and more descriptions on how Aoko's Fifth Magic works. and I don't like using Aoko's light speed feat so i ignore it to use for scaling Tsukihime, even though you could in theory. but even then, this was all technically back in 1996.

this is why I say repeatedly that pre-Fate Nasuverse has always been a lot stronger on average. multiple continental and moon feats in Angel Notes Melty Blood and Mahou, plus lots of True Ancestor and Type scaling. Void Shiki and Archetype are also from the old stuff, so yeah. post-FSN Nasuverse really only surpasses Nasu's initial idea of average DAAs we've never seen in the original, since we've consistently seen the best of the best. the only weaker one we've seen is SHIKI Roa, but that was more of physical durability and strength. his speed was still abnormally fast.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

yes. you can check the translation progress here however. a new team is almost finished. though they haven't updated in two months, which is a little weird.

Redirecting…

ghpages.hollow-moon.org

I already follow these guys on Twitter been keeping up with their updates soon the promised land shall be upon us

Mahou besides Aoko's moon busting feat that was also light speed doesn't bring too much new to the table, considering most of the characters in there are below Tsukihime characters by a lot until Aoko obtains the Fifth and Soujuurou.

Prime Soujuurou however is stated to be the strongest Type-Moon protagonist, so he should be comparable to Nanaya Shiki at his peak that vastly dwarfs 90% of the verse. so he's a serious heavy hitter. though he lacks hax, he shouldn't need it against most characters due to the speed he would have rivaling Nanaya's at his peak.

Alice is also strong with her abilities like summoning Flat Snark and various other things, but Mahou hasn't really brought a lot new to the table in terms of ground breaking physical stats and hax besides Prime Soujuurou and more descriptions on how Aoko's Fifth Magic works. and I don't like using Aoko's light speed feat so i ignore it to use for scaling Tsukihime, even though you could in theory. but even then, this was all technically back in 1996.

this is why I say repeatedly that pre-Fate Nasuverse has always been a lot stronger on average. multiple continental and moon feats in Angel Notes Melty Blood and Mahou, plus lots of True Ancestor and Type scaling. Void Shiki and Archetype are also from the old stuff, so yeah. post-FSN Nasuverse really only surpasses Nasu's initial idea of average DAAs we've never seen in the original, since we've consistently seen the best of the best.

I just mentioned Mahoyo because it came out in 2012 making it the first work aside from the various Anime that was "Post FSN" not that I was particularly talking about scaling Mahoyo

 

[RanaProGamer]

Never before has the title of a thread been more accurate. I do feel we’re going in circles at this point.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Never before has the title of a thread been more accurate. I do feel we’re going in circles at this point.

I got that Clairvoyance EX boiiiii

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The NA release of the Olympus chapter is out, and I got the script for the Dioscuri Twins fights.
Holmes buffed Musashi when she intercepted the surprise light speed attack against Mash (Mash didn't have Ortinax's combat mode activated when she got blitzed, but seems able to keep up at 60-70% output), but later on the characters are able to fend off bloodlusted light speed attacks on their own with extreme difficulty.
Before the second fight they get access to Klironomia nanomachine boost, and Mash says that it allows her to use Ortinax's output at 90%, so seems to be a 1.5x buff.
In the third fight we get a statement that Holme's light beams (which Sigurd dodged on his own) scale to the speed of the Discouri Twins. The Discouri are pushed back due to the protagonists being rested and Mash/Caenis getting a shield/spear upgrade, and the twins are only able to blitz if they move FTL at the risk of destroying their Spirit Core.

Spoiler: First Fight

Dioscuri - Castor
Oh? I'm surprised to see that you deign to speak to them, Queen Europa.

Dioscuri - Pollux
Don't be rude, Big Brother. Remember, Queen Europa has assimilated with Lady Hera.

Dioscuri - Pollux
That thing is no longer human, but a demigod. You mustn't glare at it like that.

Dioscuri - Castor
Hmph.
It may have a god inside now, Pollux, but it is still human. That makes her no different from that failure Caenis.

Dioscuri - Pollux
Oh, Big Brother...

Fou
Fo... Fou!

Mash
The Dioscuri, the twin gods!
Master, those are the Divine Spirits we encountered once back in Atlantis!

Dioscuri - Castor
Hm?
Did you look at me, human? Did you point at me and speak my name?
How dare you?

Mash
!

Musashi
Not so fast!

Choices

• Mash!

Mash
M-Master. I...
I couldn't...even budge...

• Musashi!

Musashi
Don't worry, I'm totally fine☆ Just make sure Mash is all right, okay?

Dioscuri - Castor
Why you⸻

Musashi
Oh, was that rude of me? I'm sorry, I was just so surprised at how light your pitiful little god sword was.
If I hadn't known better, I'd have thought I was batting away a feather pillow!
(Yeah, right! I don't know how I'd even begin fighting back against swordplay like that!)
(How the hell was his strike that strong? Or that fast!? That blade was practically moving at light speed!)
(Maybe it actually was light or something? What the hell!? Not even a bona fide sword saint could manage that strike!)
(Thank goodness for Holmes and his quick thinking. He must have figured something like this would happen when he cast that support spell on me!)
(If he hadn't...Mash's head would be lying on the ground right about now...)

Europa
Please, stay your blade, Castor.

Dioscuri - Castor
...Are you speaking to me in your capacity as queen?

Dioscuri - Pollux
Big Brother.

Dioscuri - Castor
Tch.
...I won't forget that insolent face of yours, human woman. I'll kill you myself when the time comes.

Musashi
Oh my, whatever will I do?

Dioscuri - Pollux
Welcome back, Big Brother.

Dioscuri - Castor
Thank you, Little Sister.

Dioscuri - Pollux
You did wonderful, obeying the queen's orders. I knew you could do it, Big Brother.

Dioscuri - Castor
...Stop praising me, Little Sister. Not in front of the humans.

[...]

Dioscuri - Castor
Haha. Hahahahahahahahaha! You're getting my hopes up, Father!

Dioscuri - Pollux
Hehe. Hehehehehehehehehe! You said it, Big Brother.

Aphrodite
Make it quick.

Demeter
Oh my... I was hoping to at least let them have some wine first.

Europa
Zeus has made his decision. Do not let them suffer.
Make their deaths quick and painless, Dioscuri.

Dioscuri - Pollux
Did you hear that, Big Brother? We have permission now!
At last, you'll get to indulge in your favorite pastime: killing humans!
Since you're usually forbidden from doing so, this is your chance to really enjoy yourself!

Dioscuri - Castor
Oh yes, you bet I'm going to kill them! Watch this, Little Sister! I'm about to show you the full extent of my wrath!
Die, humans!

Mash
...Master! I managed to activate the Ortinax's emergency mode!
Output is at sixty percent! Spirit Origin stabilized!
Our opponents are one Divine Spirit and one hostile giant!

Musashi
Dammit! Dammit, dammit, dammit! These are the meanest gods I've ever met!
They couldn't even wait until this damn headache wears off before attacking us!
But if that's how it's gonna be, then that's fine with us! Right, Fujimaru!?
Our opponents mean business, and they're more powerful than anything we've ever faced! What do you do!?

Choices

• ...You need to ask? We fight!
• ...We fight back as hard as we can!

Musashi
You got it! One god destroyer, coming right up! When we're done, they won't know what hit them!

[...]

I hear...cheers.
Cheers so loud they echo all around us.
Cheers demanding the intruders be punished. Cheers demanding the wicked Chaldeans be obliterated.
Women and men, young and old alike, are shouting from their windows, united in a single wish:
The death of Chaldea.

Mash
Khh...!

Musashi
...
(Looks like Aphrodite, Demeter, and Europa aren't joining in the fight...)
(...just to maintain their dignified image in front of their human audience.)
(Those goddesses clearly aren't about to start working together anytime soon. I guess this means gods have their own special way they prefer to win.)
(In which case, that just leaves the giant and the unhinged Divine Spirit Servant to worry about...)
(I could probably take out one of them if I wasn't worried about making it out of this alive, but not both...)
(Ordinarily I wouldn't mind sacrificing myself to take them down, but that really doesn't seem like an option here.)
(Sigh)
(This must be just how Lord Inshun felt back then. How ironic that it took a situation like this for me to realize it.)
...Fujimaru!
It looks like we're all out of options! I'll hold them off here while the rest of you⸻

Choices

• We're not going anywhere.
• We're not running away unless you're coming with us.

Musashi
...Dammit, why'd you have to say that?

Holmes
I understand this may not be convincing, seeing how I just tried to do the very same thing, but that would not be the best course of action. No, I believe this is where I come in.
I have some experience with finding ways out of desperate odds, you see.

Musashi
Wait, really? So you've still got some kind of trump card up your sleeve?
Then what're you waiting for!? Odds don't GET much more desperate than this!

Holmes
It's not the sort of solution I like to employ with any frequency, especially when there are so many unknown variables.
All right

Musashi
Huh? What was that!?

Choices

• The sky just went dark again!
• I don't like the look of those clouds...

Fou
Fooou!

Mash
Fou, please, get back in the storage space! It's not safe outside right now!

Fou
Fo fo fou!

Holmes
Hmm...
The god of the heavens, eh. I see. Apparently, he doesn't care for my trump card.
Fujimaru. Ms. Kyrielight. Ms. Miyamoto. I suggest you focus on your battle with the Dioscuri and the bronze giant.
And one more thing: do keep your distance from me.

Spoiler: Second Fight

Holmes
All right, we can continue this chat later. Right now, we need to return to base as quickly as possible.
Most of this district's citizens may be gone now, but it's only a matter of time until more soldiers and autonomous weapons make their way here.
We completely exhausted our magical energy in our fight against Aphrodite, so our priority now is to recuperate.
From there, we can plan our next objective and⸻

Man's Voice
Do you really think there will be a “next” for you?

Swordfighter & Warrior
!

Caenis
It's you! Goddamn twin bastards!

Choices

• The Dioscuri!

Mash
The Dioscuri, the twin gods! Kirschtaria's Servant...!

• Are you okay, Holmes!?

Holmes
Oh yes. If not for Caenis's spear, my head would be tumbling across the floor right now.
...I must express my gratitude for that.

Fou
Fo fou, fooou!

Dioscuri - Castor
Congratulations, Chaldeans!

Dioscuri - Pollux
We're going to kill you here, Chaldeans!

Musashi
C'mon, guys. Now? Seriously?
We just finished a battle against a machine god, and we're worn right the heck out.
There's no honor in taking us out while we're completely exhaus⸻

Dioscuri - Pollux
Don't be ridiculous! My swordsmanship is light itself!

Dioscuri - Castor
It's useless! No mere human could ever take us by surprise!
If I were Ares, I might commend you for destroying two machine gods⸻four, if you count the ones in Atlantis...
But you'll get no such praise from me! God Destroyers? What a joke!
Your efforts amount to nothing more than killing gods with the power of other gods! And if that weren't bad enough, you're even brazenly using Klironomia...

Dioscuri - Pollux
Go ahead. Try to fire that black light at us, humans.

Dioscuri - Castor
We ARE light. We are what shines forth in the wake of a storm!

Dioscuri
This is where...
The God Destroyer Alliance dies!

[...]

Dioscuri
Is that all you've got!?

Musashi
...!
(Divine Spirits, huh? Wow. I've never come up against a sword and shield made of light before!)
(Their magical energy is tough enough as is, but the worst part is their insane speed! Even their fists move like light!)
(These two aren't at all like the machine gods who just grind away at you with their Authority.)
(They're just a ludicrously powerful Servant!)

Dioscuri - Pollux
You think you can compete with my sword? Or with Big Brother's shield?
You?
Do you think you're competing now? How are you going to string enough moves together to cut us down?
Go on, human swordfighter. Tell me.

Musashi
Niten Ichiryu!

Holmes
...Niten Ichiryu baritsu beam! Well, that last part was only in jest, but it did take you by surprise, didn't it?
Caligula!

Caligula
Hraaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Hear me, O goddess...
Flucticulus Diana!

Dioscuri - Pollux
That's Artemis's⸻Big Brother!

Dioscuri - Castor
Worry not, Pollux. A little mental attack like this is noth⸻
Khh!

Adele
Everyone, hurry!

Macarios
The smoke screen spell won't last long! We need to fall back, now!


Mash
Senpai!

Choices

• Fall back!

Mash
Understood! Falling back at full speed!

• Let's go!

Mash
Right!

Dioscuri - Castor
Curse you!!!
How dare you escape from me not once, but twice!?
Such insolence! Such impudence! Such irreverence! How dare you disrespect us like this!?

Dioscuri - Pollux
Big Brother

Dioscuri - Castor
Chaldea! Chaldea! Chaldea! Raaaaaaaaaaaah!!!
I'll kill every last one of you humans myself!

Spoiler: Third Fight

Dioscuri - Castor
You talk too much, barbarian.

Dioscuri - Pollux
Yes, he does. Shall we kill them now, Big Brother?

Limbo
Ahh, yes, I do hope you'll forgive me! Very well then, I will leave the massacre to you two.
After all, it would be quite absurd for a Disciple of the Foreign God to clean up a mess brought about by negligence on your family's behalf!

Dioscuri - Castor
...Hmph. That's right, it would be. Now be quiet.
So, we finally found you, humans.

Dioscuri - Pollux
...We found them, Big Brother.

Macarios
The Dioscuri! You... You always...!
You always snatch our hope away from us! Every single time...!

Adele
...Well this time, you won't.
We won't let you take anything from us ever again!

Mash
Both of you, be careful! The Dioscuri are a Divine Spirit Servant!
Please, get back before they hurt you!

Dioscuri - Castor
... ...
...You've kept me waiting a long time. Now, this is where it ends.
Don't think I've forgotten how you humiliated us with your filthy, worthless spell, lowly humans.
Though our light will never be sullied by the pitiful death struggles of weaklings like yourselves...
...you should be thrilled that you managed to injure my pride.

Dioscuri - Pollux
You're all in for it now. No human has incurred Big Brother's wrath and survived.

Dioscuri - Castor
Now, prepare...

Dioscuri - Pollux
...for divine justice.

Dioscuri - Castor
Death to all of you!

Caenis
Goddamn bastard twins!

Caenis
The hell're you so worked up over a bunch of humans for, huh!?
...This is just like what happened last time, too.
You sure you little ***** aren't forgetting anyone?
Ha! You thought I'm the one who didn't belong among the gods?
You got balls saying that to my face after Kirschtara ground your asses into the dirt like it was nothing! Did you forget how you had to go crying to big daddy Zeus, pleading for your lives?
You got the great Caenis to deal with, and you dumb ***** stay focused on these weaklings... Well I've HAD it!
Die, shitheads!

Dioscuri - Pollux
The sea-god's spear! I knew it was too good for the likes of you!

Caenis
I said shut the hell up and DIE!

Dioscuri - Pollux
...Are you all right, Big Brother?

Dioscuri - Castor
I'm fine. Mere magical energy light from an ordinary Heroic Spirit can never hope to match ours.

Holmes
The Dioscuri, gods of light. They may indeed move at near-light speed, but it seems they aren't capable of nullifying all forms of light directed at them.
Does that mean they have openings we can take advantage of? As they say nowadays, the jury is still out.

Caenis
Stay out of my way, Trench Coat! Your magical energy light show isn't gonna do shit, anyway!

Musashi
Hey now, don't go throwing out the baritsu beam with the detective. Anyway...
As far as we're concerned, gods of light, you're just one more milestone on the road to slaying all the gods!
I'm not exhausted like last time, and to top it off I'm feeling better than ever thanks to the queen's amazing food!

Mash
Activating Ortinax's emergency combat mode! Adjusting operational output to seventy percent!
I'm ready, Master!

Choices

• Don't forget to keep Europa safe!
• First order of business: get past the Dioscuri!

Mash
Understood!

Caenis
LET'S FREAKIN' GOOOOOO!!!

[...]

Dioscuri - Castor
Insolent worms!

Dioscuri - Pollux
Don't bother fighting back, humans! You'll never escape death at my brother's hands!

Mash
The Dioscuri are still alive and well! Our current fighting forces just can't beat them!

Musashi
Gah, my eyes! It's like looking into the sun!
(I don't know if they're actually moving at light speed or not, but I do know both their sword and discus are really freaking fast!)
(Mash is doing a great job defending against them. Caenis's spearplay is as sharp as it's ever been.)
(And despite his injuries, Emperor Caligula's fists haven't slowed down. Berserkers gotta berserk, I guess...)
(Still, the way things are going, it's only a matter of time until one of us gives up the ghost. I might just have to sacrifice one of my swords after all!)

Minerva
Hoooooot!

Dioscuri - Castor
!

Dioscuri - Pollux
That trick again!?

Limbo
Oh yes, of course it won't work! Not against mighty gods of Olympus!
But just to be safe...allow me to use my sorcery to negate it!

[...]

Mash
Limbo's magical energy signal has vanished! I'm not seeing Europa's signal anywhere in our vicinity, either!

Caenis
He got away!? How'd that piece of shit jester pull that off!?

Holmes
He appeared to be using some manner of instantaneous travel...although such a thing shouldn't even be possible with existing magecraft.
Perhaps it's some ability unique to the Foreign God's Disciples, or a kind of spell still unknown to us.
(Or, alternatively, it could be a form of an Eastern technique, Jinsokutsu⸻)

Dioscuri - Castor
Worry not. You'll never need to know.
For what use would such knowledge be to corpses?

Dioscuri - Pollux
Right you are, Big Brother. Come, let's kill them all here and now.

[...]

Dioscuri - Pollux
Sh-shut up! Shut up, shut up, shut up!
One more word insulting my brother, and you'll live just long enough to regret it, pitiful human!

Caenis
Ha! See, that right there's why you idiots keep getting taken advantage of! That's how I ended up free enough to turn down the winning team and side with these Chaldea dipshits!
You think Kirschtaria trusts you implicitly, huh? Well, I guess you're not wrong.
'Cause he definitely trusts you to keep to your absurd hatreds like the drooling morons you are!

Dioscuri - Pollux
We've heard enough, Big Brother! Nothing more need be said! All that's left to do is to kill every last one of them!

Dioscuri - Castor
Pollux...!

Dioscuri - Pollux
We are the Dioscuri, the twin gods! Though our light may normally serve as a guiding beacon...
...for you lot, it will be an inescapable blade of death punishing you for your sins!

Choices

• Mash!
• Keep Adele and Macarios safe!

Mash
Understood! I'm ready, Master!
Preparing to engage in Anti-Divinity combat!

[...]

Mash
Oh no you don't!

Dioscuri - Castor
That rigidity! That immobility! It can't be!
The light radiating from your shield... Is that⸻

Dioscuri - Pollux
Athena's protection, the Aegis!?
Impossible! Now that Odysseus is gone, the Aegis should no longer exist in this Lostbelt!

Prometheus-Hephaestus
Indeed, that is not the true Aegis.
But by extracting and purifying Athena's Theos Klironomia⸻Nike Sophia, her final Authority of victory...

Prometheus-Hephaestus
...I was able to change it... into a form suitable for ingestion.
...and, h-hehe, mixed it in... with Queen Europa's cooking!

Dioscuri - Castor
!

Prometheus-Hephaestus
And that's not all... Heroic⸻or rather, Divine Spirit Caenis!

Prometheus-Hephaestus
I know this may be overstepping my bounds...but I took the liberty of tweaking your Spirit Origin a bit...so as to better synchronize with Poseidon's Authority.

Prometheus-Hephaestus
Forgive me...exalted tyrant...

Caenis
Tch.
How the hell'm I supposed to complain to a guy who's already dead, you idiot?
So I'll save that shit for later. Meanwhile...
I'll just help myself to every last bit of that asshole god's vortex power!
Ha! Get ready, you little *****! Now that my spear is sharper than ever...
Caenis is unleashed!
And I'm gonna pay you back for what you did to me in Atlantis, and for your pathetic, whiny grudge...
...a thousand times over!

Dioscuri - Pollux
Is that...Poseidon's trident I'm sensing!? She must have raised her spiritual rank!
Be careful, Big Brother!

Dioscuri - Castor
Humans! Stupid, pathetic, insignificant humans! What use could the likes of you have for a divine artifact!?
Killing a god will forever be beyond your means!
Have at you, human scum!
I am the god of light! I will tear you to pieces and scatter you to the winds!

Caenis
Let's do this thing!

Mash
I'll follow your lead!

Musashi
Same!

Musashi
(Looks like we've got one more shot at victory. Fine by me! Let's make the most of it!)
(Now we've got Athena's Aegis, and a spear that's been imbued with the power of Poseidon's trident!)
(Between an invincible shield and an unparalleled spear, we should be able to take them both out simultaneously!)
(Get ready, Dioscuri!)
(I'm taking both your heads as soon as I get the chance!)

Dioscuri - Castor
Ghh...!

Dioscuri - Pollux
Big Brother!

Dioscuri - Castor
This ends now! I already know exactly what to do to kill both humans and Heroic Spirits alike!

Choices

• ...!
• (He just looked my way!)

Musashi
Wha...!?

Mash
Senpai!!!

Dioscuri - Castor
Hahahahahahahaha!!!

Choices

• (He snuck up behind me!?)
• (He's got me by the head! I can't even move!)

Dioscuri - Castor
Nobody move!
...On second thought, I take that back.
Move, if you like.
Just know that if you do, I will use my light speed to rip his spine clean out through his neck! Haha!

Dioscuri - Pollux
Well done, Big Brother.
I'm so impressed that you keenly ascertained the enemy's key weakness even in the midst of this tumultuous battle.
I was looking for a chance to take his head myself, but the little Aegis girl was irritatingly consistent about protecting him.

Dioscuri - Castor
Hahahahaha, it was nothing, Little Sister. After all, this is far from my first time killing humans!
It's always the same with them. First they stupidly commit to fighting, then they die while trying to protect the weak.
Once you zero in on a target... there is nothing they can do against our light speed.

Dioscuri - Pollux
Big Brother, you're bleeding from your mouth...
Oh no! Please tell me you didn't use your Authority to move faster than light!?
Have you forgotten that we're now only Divine Spirits, not proper gods!? Making true use of our Authority could destroy our entire Spirit Core!

Dioscuri - Castor
...Heh.
A little blood is nothing to me⸻

Choices

• ...Getting pretty desperate, huh?

Dioscuri - Castor
!!!

• If you push yourself beyond your limits, you'll only make things worse for yourself.

Dioscuri - Pollux
!?

Dioscuri - Castor
How dare you!?
Let's see if you're still as mouthy after I've torn your head off!

Mash
Senpai!!!

Dioscuri - Pollux
Don't move!

Dioscuri - Castor
...Hold it. You just moved, didn't you?
Then it seems I'll need to give you a fitting punishment, shield girl!
Use that great shield of yours to cut off your own head, and I may just spare this man's life!

Choices

• Don't do it!!!

Choices

• Dioscuri!

Dioscuri - Castor
......!
What...?
You... What was that, human?
That power I just felt...from your head... Was that...?
No. It couldn't be...
...the power to kill a god?

Dioscuri - Pollux
!

Dioscuri - Castor
You...
It was you!
That black light that killed Demeter and Aphrodite! The vile god-killing weapon that shouldn't exist!
You're its ammunition!
Damn you, Proper Human History!

Dioscuri - Pollux
Big Brother! Why did you let go of him!?

Musashi
Caenis!

Dioscuri - Castor
Gaaaaaah!

Dioscuri - Pollux
Big...Brother!

Mash
Senpai...!

Choices

• Mash!
• Thanks!

Mash
Senpai is safe! The rest of you, please take it from here!

Caenis
...Take 'em down, twins.

Adele
Death to mine enemies! Hades!

Macarios
Let the blade of bravery shine forth! Athena!

Holmes
Are those special Mystic Codes...? No! They're using some form of magecraft!

Holmes
And since they were calling out the names of gods...they must be using Age of Gods magecraft that makes use of Divine Spirit power!

Olympus Twins
Rrraaaaaaaaah!

Dioscuri - Castor
Damn you, humaaaaaans!

Dioscuri - Pollux
What could you be hoping to achieve by allying yourselves with these revolting people from Proper Human History!?
Even if their help does enable your foolish rebellion against the gods to succeed...there will be nothing waiting for you afterwards!

Macarios
Even if that's true!

Adele
We're still not going to let this end here!
We refuse to let this be our final resting place!

Mash
...!

Macarios
No matter how many times we are made to submit to the gods' power, at least we can keep shouting “This isn't over yet!”

Adele
We may just be humans, not gods, but we can at least do that!

Macarios
Even if the heavens we seek are impossibly far away... we'll still never stop saying it!

Olympus Twins
This isn't over yet!

Dioscuri - Pollux
...Then I'll ask you this.
Tell me, alliance woman: Why do you not stop your brother?
Surely you both know where this path you're on leads?
Death.
Yes, death! From this point on, no matter what you do, you will die!
Either we gods will tear you to pieces... or you'll be destroyed along with this Lostbelt!
So then, why!?
Why do you two⸻

Adele
... ...
...Because both my brother and I believe...
...that a real tomorrow would be far better than an endless today.

Dioscuri - Castor
Heh... What a joke.
Now that Hades is gone, and there is no one left to ensure the souls of the dead find new lives, death is truly the end. Don't you see that!?

Macarios
Yeah... We see it.

Adele
But even so, I...

Macarios
We...

Olympus Twins
...want to finally see a tomorrow that's different than yesterday.

Dioscuri - Pollux
Ahh... Big...Brother...

Mash
...The two enemy Servants' magical energy is rapidly vanishing. They're about to disappear.

Choices

• (Quietly nod)

Holmes
The Dioscuri certainly had a tough Spirit Origin, but it seems our attacks finally reached their Divine Core.

Caligula
Behold what has transpired here.
You both said it was impossible, but it was none other than humans of Olympus who shattered your Divine Core.

Dioscuri - Castor
...So it would seem.
Very well then, humans, keep pushing your luck. Go ahead and forge your path to a future where only despair awaits!
And know that it will never be anything more than a single step⸻right into a dead end!

---

Confirmation that Holmes' magical light beams scale to light speed is a pleasant surprise, and opens the door for Excalibur's movement being likened to a laser beam and Gae Bolg's FTL statement since they now have a lower burden of proof.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Well isn't that a pleasant suprise, thought someone might bring this up since Olympus dropped today

 

[Antvasima]

I am absolutely certain. Technically subsonic means the same (everything below the speed of sound), but on this wiki we ascribe it a particular meaning for our speed ratings. We do no such thing for "sublight", nor would we inherently take statements of "subsonic" speeds to mean specifically our definition of "subsonic". It can be a bit confusing.

Thank you for helping out, Bambu. I suppose that the Nasuverse characters can not be scaled from this then.

Everybody else in this thread:

So what do we currently need to do here based on this development?

 

[Antvasima]

@Mr._Bambu

What do you think about the following post?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/and-thus-a-new-shitsorm-was-born-nasuverse-massive-speed-revisions.133215/post-4600606

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Thank you for helping out, Bambu. I suppose that the Nasuverse characters can not be scaled from this then.

Everybody else in this thread:

So what do we currently need to do here based on this development?

This was just another supporting feat, With Sherlock's mystic codes being confirmed to scale to LS that means that we could scale off Sigurd and any other servant who has ever fought Holmes on top of the Mash dodging mechanical lasers

Additionally we could simply scale off all the Servants who withstood LS attacks from the Dioscuri twins

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Well anyways had a talk with Crimson today and as the main purpose of this thread, that being getting Relativistic servants accepted seems to have been achieved. I'll be continuting this in a follow up thread with a more organized feat list and final proposals for what precisely should be applied to the pages. As well as some Calcs (hopefully) so see ya'll then

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So have all of the accepted suggested changes here been applied already then? There is no further discussion necessary in this thread?

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Okay. So have all of the accepted suggested changes here been applied already then? There is no further discussion necessary in this thread?

Yes they have all been applied and yes there is no further discussion to be had

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this thread then. Thank you to everybody who helped out here.

Feel free to reopen this thread and comment here again if there are any remaining issues that you wish to discuss, Bambu.