- 674
- 193
AWWWWWW YEAH BABY HERE WE GO
Shout out to @Migue79 for hooking me up with the Calc
you knew it was gonna come eventually and here it is IT WAS INEVITABLE
So let's get straight into it. We all know Servants and everyone who Scales to them are given an MHS rating as a result of this calc and this calc. Buuuut as you might imagine I wouldn't have made this thread if these were perfectly fine
First Enkidu's calculation is wonky because it's an NP animation and may only be for Gameplay reasons and I'm pretty sure Ishtar's old 5-B rating was removed for similar reasons
Secondly The Hansa calc is legit however the main problem with that as many of you may already know is that it's a flat out Lowball
As we can see here he declares himself well under the level of burial agency members and as a result he should be even further below the level of Servants. Which means that scaling some of the Fastest servants to this Calc is an obvious lowball.
However, it's not like we could do anything about it to this point. After all there was no way to comfortably scale them Higher well....until now that is. So now bear witness for MASHU-SAMA has graced us with a usable feat for servant speed scaling
MASHU-SAMA SUPREMACYYYYYY
Anyways ya'll probably know this feat and I've seen it come up in a one or two other attempted Speed revision however here we've got a Calc however what you're probably thinking is "but are the lasers Light Speed tho" and "Even if they are is it consistent" well strap in were gonna get to that now
Starting with the "Are they light speed" according to Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats the main thing to consider with these lasers is that they come from a visible source of light and now you also may be tempted to say but "Hey didn't Mash deflect them and interact with them?" And yes yes Mashu-Sama did however we know that one she isn't a normal human and two that her sheild is capable of such things as shown when she defended against Goetias Noble Phantsam Ars Almadel Salomonis which are stated to be beams of light with her sheild. So yeah light speed lasers we good?? Cool.
Now onto consistency..... look it's no secret how many Light Speed statmens and light beam dodging Feats there are in the Nasuverse so imma just drop them for yalls
-We've got the likes of Sigurd and everyone else who fights Holmes reacting to and dodging attacks from his specially made mysic codes which produce beams of light
-We have people fighting against and reacting to Archimedes's Noble Phantasm which collects and accelerates particles of sunlight
-Santa Karna being stated to be able to punch things at faster than Light speed
Flashing Fists: A
This Karna does not carry a spear, he only has his fists. But, that doesn't mean there is a decrease in his combat power. For he was trained by Drona, an expert in all aspects of martial arts, so he is accustomed to fighting with empty hands.
In fact, when he recalls the past when he was studying martial arts along with Arjuna and Ashvatthaman, it gives him a fresh sensation that makes his body lighter than it was when he was burdened with the weight of his spear.
The maximum speed of the punches he deliver exceeds the speed of light.
- We have Musashi intercepting a light speed attack from Castor in LB 5(however note this feat in particular should be taken with a grain of salt as the official Translations aren't out yet)
castor: "a human mixed with a god is still a human, pollux. indistinct from the likes of that loser, caenis."
pollux: "brother ..."
mashu: "the twin gods, the dioscuroi. we previously encountered them in atlantis! they're divine spirit servants!"
castor: "hm? you look upon me, point at me, and call my name. human -- i haven't permitted such a thing"
castor attacks mashu, but musashi blocks
musashi: "was this disrespectful of me, perhaps? though, for a great and powerful kami-sama, your blade was far too light. whether it be in speed or purpose, it wasn't of any weight at all -- to the point that somebody like me could block it as easily as if you were wielding a feather"
musashi (in thought): "what the hell was that weight and speed!? if it isn't light itself, that sort of speed isn't possible, no!?"
"or perhaps, was it truly light itself? that sort of attack would be beyond the means of even a sword-saint!"
"it was only on account of holmes-san's predictions that i was able to intercept it!"
"if not for that, mashu might've been beheaded just now!"
-Saber and Diarmud were stated to be approaching the speed of light in their fight
-Fate/Stay Night:
During Saber Alter vs Rider, Rider was stated as being able to dash at light speed: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551346778021298186/552402261704441866/ACwqu74.png
Which Saber Alter was able to react to casually: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551346778021298186/552402288728342538/AmrQtT5.png
Light speed attacks are again stated when Saber Alter attacks Shirou: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551346778021298186/552397947296415755/y06Z1gt.png
And even cases of thought processes surpassing light speed by Emiya: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/587131738980089916/588956717799178242/unknown.png
Fate/Grand Order:
The Avenger Of Shinjuku is able to react to a trap, which Da Vinci said would require few microseconds to react to. It then reacts to the second trap much faster than the first trap a stated by Mash.
Shout out to @RanaProGamer for the last 5 or so feats cause I just copied and pasted some of the stuff he had on his attempted Speed revision here and shout out to @ShadowWhoWalks for the LB 5 feat
So now looking at all the Feats posted above I don't particularly think that the Mash calc here can be ruled out as inconsistent as there are various showings that leand credence to the consistency of her dodging those lasers.
However, yeah I know you probably thought I wasnt gonna mention it but I am and here it is the infamous BB statment saying that Servants can't go faster than Light
Now look this is pretty straight foward however given all the statments and feats I believe we can come to a compromise in that we'll give Servants and those who scale to them FTL combat speed and reactions whilst their movement Speed will still be below that as most of the Feats I posted lend credence to their reaction and Combat speed rather than their movement speed itself.
Now to into the Particulars of what should actually be written on the Profiles
Given that they were stated to be Approaching the speed of light after passing the speed of sound I think for anyone who Scales it should be:
For any servant with E to B-Rank Speed and those who scale directly off Saber and those she has fought
Relativistic with FTL Reaction speed(Comparable to Saber and Diarmud, scales to this calc)
"This Calc" obviously being The Mashu sama one posted in this thread
And for particularly fast Servants who are much faster than your avarage Servant like an Achilles or a Quetz or an Okita you could either give them
Relativistic+ with FTL reaction speed(Faster than Saber and Diarmud, and superior to Mash Kyrielight who performed this feat)
Or
Relativistic with FTL Reaction speed(Comparable to Saber and Diarmud, scales to this calc), Higher (Insert a statment about them being a particularly fast servant and as a result should scale above Mash, Diarmud and Saber)
Depending on how generous ya'll are feeling
Now onto the second topic of discussion that being Ryougi Shiki and her Speed and a minor addition for her true self.
We know that Ryougi Shiki IS the Root via this passage
-“The spiral of origin is
the primordial beginning of all things in this pattern of reality. All things
pass through the great wheel, their natures and their histories—past, pres-
ent, and future—are connected to it. It is thus a vast and empty place. It
reflects what I am, in a way. I am connected to it, and I am a part of it as
well. I am it. Which is why the greatest feats that mages can only dream of
are allowed me. - Kara no kyoukai - Vol 3 -page 227
And we know that the root is accepted as being:
Is the "Spiral of Origin", the grand mass of nothingness that all concepts in existence sprang forth from, and is where everything returns when it is destroyed. Controls[2] and exists at the summit of all dimensional theories[3], existing independently of it's definitions. It is completely transcendent of the rest of reality, an unrestrained domain free from binary opposition[4]
And additionally
the prelude to the Garden Of Sinners event Shiki states that the player has a name and as a result should not be there
and as we know The Root
"While spoken of as the "Spiral of Origin", this term cannot be applied to its true essence as 「 」, and any possible description or definition one could try giving is immediately separated into its own idea unrelated to 「 」"
So depending on how you interpret the connection between these two pieces of information you could even say that the place that the player reached was the spiral of origin
Therefore, because that is a place that stands at the summit and controls all Dimensional theory being independent of its definitions and that in her true form she IS the Root itself and she was possibly able to move within the domain known as "The Spiral of origin" she should be granted
Irrelevant Speed in her Void Shiki key
As well as Beyond-Dimensional Existence(Type 2) same as the root
And Outerversal Durability because her true form is the Spiral of origin itself
And last but not least some additions for Mashu-Sama
To which I propose the making of an Ortenaus Key now look I wont discuss her Tier here because the official TL's for LB 5.2 aren't out and I figure we should wait for those but at the very least I think the key should contain
Conceptual Manipulation: via Black barrel The gun is a "Conceptual Weapon of natural life-span", capable of imposing the notion of limited life-span into the body of near-immortal creatures.
And Immortality Negation(Type 8): As she was able to kill Demeter, Zeus and Aphrodite with it and as we know Gods can only die after all who remember them are gone
So in summary:
Servants should get Rel Movement Speed along with FTL reaction speed based on the calc
Void Shiki should get BDE Type 2, 1-A Durability and Irrelevant Speed due to her true self being The Root itself
And Mashu-Sama should get a new Ortenaus key with Conceptual Manipulation and Immortality Negation
Agree: @RanaProGamer (agree with Servant speed and Mash additions, Neutral on Void Shiki additions), @HyperZero95 (Agrees with Void shiki and Mashu additions,), @TrueKingOfHeroes (Neutral on servant speed, Agree with Mashu and BDE Void shiki), @CrystalValley (with Mash and Void shiki additions),@Veloxt1r0kore (Neutral on Servant speed, Agree's with Mash and Void Shiki additions), @Mageman460 (Agree with servant speed and Mash Additions, neutral on Void Shiki),@Duragoji123 (With servants speed), @Regidian (with Servant speed),@FantaRin_The_First (with servant speed), @DaReaperMan (with Servant Speed),@John985 (with servant speed), @Setsuna_tenma (with servant speed),@Expectro2000xxx (With servant speed), @Maxeez (With servant speed)
Disagree: @CrystalValley(With Servant speed) @HyperZero95 (With Servant Speed) @Hasty12345 (with servant speed), @Kenboxx (With servant speed) @Veloxt1r0kore (with servant speed), @MrBallins(with servant speed), @Harith0cell (With Servant speed)
Have a feeling this may get fiesty but nothing ventured nothing gained is what they say i suppose hahahahahah
Shout out to @Migue79 for hooking me up with the Calc
you knew it was gonna come eventually and here it is IT WAS INEVITABLE
So let's get straight into it. We all know Servants and everyone who Scales to them are given an MHS rating as a result of this calc and this calc. Buuuut as you might imagine I wouldn't have made this thread if these were perfectly fine
First Enkidu's calculation is wonky because it's an NP animation and may only be for Gameplay reasons and I'm pretty sure Ishtar's old 5-B rating was removed for similar reasons
Secondly The Hansa calc is legit however the main problem with that as many of you may already know is that it's a flat out Lowball
As we can see here he declares himself well under the level of burial agency members and as a result he should be even further below the level of Servants. Which means that scaling some of the Fastest servants to this Calc is an obvious lowball.
However, it's not like we could do anything about it to this point. After all there was no way to comfortably scale them Higher well....until now that is. So now bear witness for MASHU-SAMA has graced us with a usable feat for servant speed scaling
MASHU-SAMA SUPREMACYYYYYY
Anyways ya'll probably know this feat and I've seen it come up in a one or two other attempted Speed revision however here we've got a Calc however what you're probably thinking is "but are the lasers Light Speed tho" and "Even if they are is it consistent" well strap in were gonna get to that now
Starting with the "Are they light speed" according to Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats the main thing to consider with these lasers is that they come from a visible source of light and now you also may be tempted to say but "Hey didn't Mash deflect them and interact with them?" And yes yes Mashu-Sama did however we know that one she isn't a normal human and two that her sheild is capable of such things as shown when she defended against Goetias Noble Phantsam Ars Almadel Salomonis which are stated to be beams of light with her sheild. So yeah light speed lasers we good?? Cool.
Now onto consistency..... look it's no secret how many Light Speed statmens and light beam dodging Feats there are in the Nasuverse so imma just drop them for yalls
-We've got the likes of Sigurd and everyone else who fights Holmes reacting to and dodging attacks from his specially made mysic codes which produce beams of light
-We have people fighting against and reacting to Archimedes's Noble Phantasm which collects and accelerates particles of sunlight
-Santa Karna being stated to be able to punch things at faster than Light speed
Flashing Fists: A
This Karna does not carry a spear, he only has his fists. But, that doesn't mean there is a decrease in his combat power. For he was trained by Drona, an expert in all aspects of martial arts, so he is accustomed to fighting with empty hands.
In fact, when he recalls the past when he was studying martial arts along with Arjuna and Ashvatthaman, it gives him a fresh sensation that makes his body lighter than it was when he was burdened with the weight of his spear.
The maximum speed of the punches he deliver exceeds the speed of light.
- We have Musashi intercepting a light speed attack from Castor in LB 5(however note this feat in particular should be taken with a grain of salt as the official Translations aren't out yet)
castor: "a human mixed with a god is still a human, pollux. indistinct from the likes of that loser, caenis."
pollux: "brother ..."
mashu: "the twin gods, the dioscuroi. we previously encountered them in atlantis! they're divine spirit servants!"
castor: "hm? you look upon me, point at me, and call my name. human -- i haven't permitted such a thing"
castor attacks mashu, but musashi blocks
musashi: "was this disrespectful of me, perhaps? though, for a great and powerful kami-sama, your blade was far too light. whether it be in speed or purpose, it wasn't of any weight at all -- to the point that somebody like me could block it as easily as if you were wielding a feather"
musashi (in thought): "what the hell was that weight and speed!? if it isn't light itself, that sort of speed isn't possible, no!?"
"or perhaps, was it truly light itself? that sort of attack would be beyond the means of even a sword-saint!"
"it was only on account of holmes-san's predictions that i was able to intercept it!"
"if not for that, mashu might've been beheaded just now!"
-Saber and Diarmud were stated to be approaching the speed of light in their fight
-Fate/Stay Night:
During Saber Alter vs Rider, Rider was stated as being able to dash at light speed: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551346778021298186/552402261704441866/ACwqu74.png
Which Saber Alter was able to react to casually: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551346778021298186/552402288728342538/AmrQtT5.png
Light speed attacks are again stated when Saber Alter attacks Shirou: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551346778021298186/552397947296415755/y06Z1gt.png
And even cases of thought processes surpassing light speed by Emiya: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/587131738980089916/588956717799178242/unknown.png
Fate/Grand Order:
The Avenger Of Shinjuku is able to react to a trap, which Da Vinci said would require few microseconds to react to. It then reacts to the second trap much faster than the first trap a stated by Mash.
Shout out to @RanaProGamer for the last 5 or so feats cause I just copied and pasted some of the stuff he had on his attempted Speed revision here and shout out to @ShadowWhoWalks for the LB 5 feat
So now looking at all the Feats posted above I don't particularly think that the Mash calc here can be ruled out as inconsistent as there are various showings that leand credence to the consistency of her dodging those lasers.
However, yeah I know you probably thought I wasnt gonna mention it but I am and here it is the infamous BB statment saying that Servants can't go faster than Light
| BB: Theoretically, yes, as long as you get the coordinates right. Problem is, once you're in SE.RA.PH, escaping Kiara's sexual allureーkinda like a gravitational field reallyーis no easy task! For one, you would need to exceed the speed of light. I mean, that's definitely possible in the digital world, but the Spiritrons that compose Spirit Origins wouldn't be able to survive the stress of those speeds. Accelerating to those speeds would make short work of even an A-rank Servant. So even if you did try to escape SE.RA.PH, you'd probably burn up in the process. At least, that's what would normally happen |
Now to into the Particulars of what should actually be written on the Profiles
Given that they were stated to be Approaching the speed of light after passing the speed of sound I think for anyone who Scales it should be:
For any servant with E to B-Rank Speed and those who scale directly off Saber and those she has fought
Relativistic with FTL Reaction speed(Comparable to Saber and Diarmud, scales to this calc)
"This Calc" obviously being The Mashu sama one posted in this thread
And for particularly fast Servants who are much faster than your avarage Servant like an Achilles or a Quetz or an Okita you could either give them
Relativistic+ with FTL reaction speed(Faster than Saber and Diarmud, and superior to Mash Kyrielight who performed this feat)
Or
Relativistic with FTL Reaction speed(Comparable to Saber and Diarmud, scales to this calc), Higher (Insert a statment about them being a particularly fast servant and as a result should scale above Mash, Diarmud and Saber)
Depending on how generous ya'll are feeling
Now onto the second topic of discussion that being Ryougi Shiki and her Speed and a minor addition for her true self.
We know that Ryougi Shiki IS the Root via this passage
-“The spiral of origin is
the primordial beginning of all things in this pattern of reality. All things
pass through the great wheel, their natures and their histories—past, pres-
ent, and future—are connected to it. It is thus a vast and empty place. It
reflects what I am, in a way. I am connected to it, and I am a part of it as
well. I am it. Which is why the greatest feats that mages can only dream of
are allowed me. - Kara no kyoukai - Vol 3 -page 227
And we know that the root is accepted as being:
Is the "Spiral of Origin", the grand mass of nothingness that all concepts in existence sprang forth from, and is where everything returns when it is destroyed. Controls[2] and exists at the summit of all dimensional theories[3], existing independently of it's definitions. It is completely transcendent of the rest of reality, an unrestrained domain free from binary opposition[4]
And additionally
the prelude to the Garden Of Sinners event Shiki states that the player has a name and as a result should not be there
and as we know The Root
"While spoken of as the "Spiral of Origin", this term cannot be applied to its true essence as 「 」, and any possible description or definition one could try giving is immediately separated into its own idea unrelated to 「 」"
So depending on how you interpret the connection between these two pieces of information you could even say that the place that the player reached was the spiral of origin
Therefore, because that is a place that stands at the summit and controls all Dimensional theory being independent of its definitions and that in her true form she IS the Root itself and she was possibly able to move within the domain known as "The Spiral of origin" she should be granted
Irrelevant Speed in her Void Shiki key
As well as Beyond-Dimensional Existence(Type 2) same as the root
And Outerversal Durability because her true form is the Spiral of origin itself
And last but not least some additions for Mashu-Sama
To which I propose the making of an Ortenaus Key now look I wont discuss her Tier here because the official TL's for LB 5.2 aren't out and I figure we should wait for those but at the very least I think the key should contain
Conceptual Manipulation: via Black barrel The gun is a "Conceptual Weapon of natural life-span", capable of imposing the notion of limited life-span into the body of near-immortal creatures.
And Immortality Negation(Type 8): As she was able to kill Demeter, Zeus and Aphrodite with it and as we know Gods can only die after all who remember them are gone
So in summary:
Servants should get Rel Movement Speed along with FTL reaction speed based on the calc
Void Shiki should get BDE Type 2, 1-A Durability and Irrelevant Speed due to her true self being The Root itself
And Mashu-Sama should get a new Ortenaus key with Conceptual Manipulation and Immortality Negation
Agree: @RanaProGamer (agree with Servant speed and Mash additions, Neutral on Void Shiki additions), @HyperZero95 (Agrees with Void shiki and Mashu additions,), @TrueKingOfHeroes (Neutral on servant speed, Agree with Mashu and BDE Void shiki), @CrystalValley (with Mash and Void shiki additions),@Veloxt1r0kore (Neutral on Servant speed, Agree's with Mash and Void Shiki additions), @Mageman460 (Agree with servant speed and Mash Additions, neutral on Void Shiki),@Duragoji123 (With servants speed), @Regidian (with Servant speed),@FantaRin_The_First (with servant speed), @DaReaperMan (with Servant Speed),@John985 (with servant speed), @Setsuna_tenma (with servant speed),@Expectro2000xxx (With servant speed), @Maxeez (With servant speed)
Disagree: @CrystalValley(With Servant speed) @HyperZero95 (With Servant Speed) @Hasty12345 (with servant speed), @Kenboxx (With servant speed) @Veloxt1r0kore (with servant speed), @MrBallins(with servant speed), @Harith0cell (With Servant speed)
Have a feeling this may get fiesty but nothing ventured nothing gained is what they say i suppose hahahahahah
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