And Thus a New Shitsorm Was Born: Nasuverse Massive Speed Revisions

[FallenMaou2234]

The problem is there is no way for servants to get stronger outside of getting a fame boost we already saw Saber at her peak in stay night with Rin as her master and Kiritsugu she was only able to go several times the speed of sound even after taking her armor off

Retconnig Servant strength is a thing @Regidian knows better than I do but Nasu even said it himself I believe its obvious given the showings of Servants in later works that they've had their power level adjusted with statmens of Mountain range destroying NP's or reacting to attacks in a microsecond where as showings in earlier works aren't as impressive and so I'll make this point again hahahah Servants have simply gotten stronger as a matter of necessity because the narrative introduced more powerful enemies it's the power creep

If anything shouldn't more recent showings take precedent here?? Are we going to pretend the more recent examples don't exist because of a statment from a visual novel that came out almost two decades ago?? Ofc I'm not saying we should but since that's the way you've chosen to argue your point of view I'm just highlighting the flip side

And these feats and statments are in sufficient abundance that saying they're all hyperbolic would be something akin to denial

 

[CrystalValley]

Can you stop bringing up how you think the current Top Tiers are wanked? You've made your point, if you really have an issue with it, make a CRT as it's pretty irrelevant to the current CRT.

you're acting as if I was debating the status of their current tiers. i just mentioned it with a line crossing it out which plenty of other people do. if anything i'm using their current status to debunk Servants scaling to these characters and am staying on topic. you need to calm down.

@FallenMaou2234 No one was saying Normal servants=Surtr and LBK Arjuna the premise is that they had to adjust servant strength in order to keep up with the antagonists hence the improvement in Servant showings later in the series we've seen them do it before with Extra so it's not outlandish

but no amount of upgrades, unless they were Tier 1 upgrades would boost Servants to match the GO top tiers rated as 1-C. LS, MHS, supersonic, it's all irrelevant to 1-Cs with immeasurable speed. so you can't argue that GO Servants have been upgraded to match those guys, unless you're arguing for immeasurable Servants and I know you aren't.

But that's the only reference we have no?? that she burnt up because she exceeded LS travel speed on the flip side we have instances of LS and FTL reactions like Karna punching at FTL or Musashi intercepting Castors SOL attack with no mention of the same which would indicate that its exceeding the SOL for a period like Melt did against Kiara that causes you to burn up

why would travel speed burn up a Servant almost immediately but not combat speed? they're two different types of movement, but they'd both be achieving the same speed that burns up Servants. and we have a mountain of evidence from past works and even GO that go against this. its too shaky and outlierish.

And these feats and statments are in sufficient abundance that saying they're all hyperbolic would be something akin to denial

rejecting the mountains of more speed of sound statements and detailed descriptions like 400-500 KMPH Bellerophon, Zero Kirei struggling with bullets despite being able to keep up with Servants is akin to denial honestly, not the other way around. speed of sound is the most detailed and numerous > lightning timer stuff (hyperbolic statements that are contradicted in the same novels, along with improper reaction feats like Gilgamesh's to the arrow) > anything higher like LS. LS has a lot going against it from the combined scans of the other two interpretations. at least MHS can be considered a middle ground, even if I disagree with it. that at least makes sense to some degree and is arguable. LS is ignoring literally all other showings and descriptions and using a few LS feats that are not numerous at all.

If anything shouldn't more recent showings take precedent here??

first off, I do not see anywhere where Nasu has said this. second off, no, unless he says all previous works and the early parts of GO aren't canon anymore. especially since important scenes in older Fate series would fall apart if characters were this fast.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

but no amount of upgrades, unless they were Tier 1 upgrades would boost Servants to match the GO top tiers rated as 1-C. LS, MHS, supersonic, it's all irrelevant to 1-Cs with immeasurable speed. so you can't argue that GO Servants have been upgraded to match those guys, unless you're arguing for immeasurable Servants and I know you aren't.

I don't know where 1-C Servants came from it's simple you had Jeanne she was a pretty strong servant then in the next chapter you introduce someone stronger and then in the next you give them a Demon god pillar and then in the next you make the antagonist one of the Beasts and then you give them the an entity that is Composite existence of an entire pantheon

It's clear to see that as FGO has gone on and the strength of the enemies appearing has increased the showings from avarage Servants have improved as well I'm confused as to where this whole 1-C Immeasurable regular servants came from again they've done it in Extra no reason GO can't

rejecting the mountains of more speed of sound statements and detailed descriptions like 400-500 KMPH Bellerophon, Zero Kirei struggling with bullets despite being able to keep up with Servants is akin to denial honestly, not the other way around.

This point again I don't get that how are they more detailed?? Because i fail to see how "an arrow struck his back, just where his heart was, at the speed of sound" is any more concise than "The maximum speed of the punches he delivers exceeds the speed of light."

1 speed of sound is the most detailed and numerous > lightning timer stuff (hyperbolic statements that are contradicted in the same novels, along with improper reaction feats like Gilgamesh's to the arrow) > anything higher like LS. LS has a lot going against it from the combined scans of the other two interpretations. at least MHS can be considered a middle ground, even if I disagree with it. that at least makes sense to some degree and is arguable. LS is ignoring literally all other showings and descriptions and using a few LS feats that are not numerous at all.

And were not ignoring them they've simply gotten power creeped FSN came out over 18 years ago since then a plethora of Fate content have come out it's not surprising that Servants today given the progression of the narrative are stronger than their first inception 18 years ago if you look at the more recent examples they favour the LS side of thing which I think is big here

Literally every servant who has ever fought Holmes in canon is a showing, you've Got Hessian Lobo's feats, you've got Karna's feats you Got SOL Castor and Musashi blocking his attacks, you've got mash dodging lasers, you've got statments saying they were approaching the speed of Light in Zero and counterattack at the speed of light in Stay night

And given that our current MHS is based on an individual who declared himself below burial agency members servants having much higher speed isn't outlandish

Zero Kirei struggling with bullets despite being able to keep up with Servants is akin to denial honestly,

Struggling with bullets???? And keeping up with Servants?? He got washed by Hassan in FSN and Hassan is a low tier servant who got beat up by Saber, Archer and Lancer relied on the shadow to win each time........
Edit:Rider beat him up too

 

[CrystalValley]

I don't know where 1-C Servants came from it's simple you had Jeanne she was a pretty strong servant then in the next chapter you introduce someone stronger and then in the next you give them a Demon god pillar and then in the next you make the antagonist one of the Beasts and then you give them the an entity that is Composite existence of an entire pantheon

nothing indicated Jeanne was anything more than an exceptional Servant. Demon God Pillars have nothing beyond a group of Servants needing to take them out. nothing about speed. Beasts are rated as 1-C with immeasurable speed here, meaning no mount of non tier 1 upgrades for Servants would close the gaps between them or make them anymore relevant in standing up to Beasts. so "they were upgraded to LS to contend with Beasts better" doesn't work because they are a non factor to Beasts period by this site's standards.

It's clear to see that as FGO has gone on and the strength of the enemies appearing has increased the showings from avarage Servants have improved as well I'm confused as to where this whole 1-C Immeasurable regular servants came from again they've done it in Extra no reason GO can't

Servants in CCC got a powerup the likes of which Fate has never seen before or since. average Servants did not get buffed. the main 4 got a new form. that's an entire different situation that has nothing to do with normal Servants getting better feats that invalidate their old ones.

This point again I don't get that how are they more detailed??

you keep ignoring detailed descriptions like 400-500 KMPH Bellerophon, the entire HA bridge scene, Kirei struggling with bullets, etc.

And were not ignoring them they've simply gotten power creeped FSN came out over 18 years ago

but they haven't. not outside of a few outlier feats, considering even GO has speed of sound feats. and most of the old Fate works are canon to GO still, so their feats still apply and using LS as a measurement makes entire events from the old series fall apart like the HA bridge scene and Kirei struggling to deflect bullets.

Literally every servant who has ever fought Holmes in canon is a showing, you've Got Hessian Lobo's feats, you've got Karna's feats you Got SOL Castor and Musashi blocking his attacks, you've got mash dodging lasers, you've got statments saying they were approaching the speed of Light in Zero and counterattack at the speed of light in Stay night

pretty sure there is context to some of those, but it really is just hyperbole because it does not match up with consistent showings that entire scenes rely on. Zero and Stay Night statements are clear hyperbole considering those are the same series where Saber struggles with deflecting bullets, Kirei struggles with bullets, Bellerophon is 400-500 KMPH, etc. you don't get to say we can't use older series that are still canon and then pick its clear hyperbolic statements to support your current statements either.

And given that our current MHS is based on an individual who declared himself below burial agency members servants having much higher speed isn't outlandish

again, there is constant contradictions.

Struggling with bullets????

yes, struggling with bullets considering he got hit by one of those bullets when he turned his back and couldn't dodge a shot from the Thompson. all of Kiritsugu's guns are normal guns. even the Thompson, which just fires a special bullet. the gun itself however is normal.

And keeping up with Servants?? He got washed by Hassan in FSN and Hassan is a low tier servant who got beat up by Saber, Archer and Lancer relied on the shadow to win each time........

what series are you reading? i don't even mean this in a sarcastic manner. are you watching the bad anime adaption of Heaven's Feel? Kirei preformed a drawn out fight against True Assassin in the VN and was doing well but getting tired. even then he hit and pinned True Assassin with Black Keys, exorcised Zouken, and then was ready for round two with True Assassin and even said without a master that it would be easy to exorcise and kill him. and True Assassin took this claim seriously considering he left immediately. if True Assassin was anywhere near LS, Kirei would've died instantly before he hit him with the Black Keys and he wouldn't of retreated when Kirei said he could take him on and win without a master. and FSN Kirei is inferior to Zero Kirei, let alone the one during the fight against Kiritsugu. True Assassin also has very high stats. he just sucks in actual close range combat. he has A agility and couldn't speed blitz Kirei.

Edit:Rider beat him up too

Rider? as in Medusa? they never fought.

 

[Kenboxx]

I don't know where 1-C Servants came from it's simple you had Jeanne she was a pretty strong servant then in the next chapter you introduce someone stronger and then in the next you give them a Demon god pillar and then in the next you make the antagonist one of the Beasts and then you give them the an entity that is Composite existence of an entire pantheon

It's clear to see that as FGO has gone on and the strength of the enemies appearing has increased the showings from avarage Servants have improved as well I'm confused as to where this whole 1-C Immeasurable regular servants came from again they've done it in Extra no reason GO can't


This point again I don't get that how are they more detailed?? Because i fail to see how "an arrow struck his back, just where his heart was, at the speed of sound" is any more concise than "The maximum speed of the punches he delivers exceeds the speed of light."

And were not ignoring them they've simply gotten power creeped FSN came out over 18 years ago since then a plethora of Fate content have come out it's not surprising that Servants today given the progression of the narrative are stronger than their first inception 18 years ago if you look at the more recent examples they favour the LS side of thing which I think is big here

Literally every servant who has ever fought Holmes in canon is a showing, you've Got Hessian Lobo's feats, you've got Karna's feats you Got SOL Castor and Musashi blocking his attacks, you've got mash dodging lasers, you've got statments saying they were approaching the speed of Light in Zero and counterattack at the speed of light in Stay night

And given that our current MHS is based on an individual who declared himself below burial agency members servants having much higher speed isn't outlandish


Struggling with bullets???? And keeping up with Servants?? He got washed by Hassan in FSN and Hassan is a low tier servant who got beat up by Saber, Archer and Lancer relied on the shadow to win each time........
Edit:Rider beat him up too

That scene of Kirei blocking bullets with black keys is a anime only during his fight with Kiritsugu in light novel he never blocked bullets with black keys

Kirei instinctively raise his arms to shield his head before he understood what was going on. A rain of 9mm bullets showered unceasingly upon him. His sleeves, made of Kevlar and covered in protective sigils, barely managed against the force of the bullets. Kirei was stunned.

As shown above he had to cover his head and use his clothing

The Contender once again let out a furious roar. Kirei had no time to dodge, nor did he have time to draw his Black Keys.

But Kirei had never intended to dodge.
Kirei threw a right punch a moment before the Contender fired. His arm, having transformed into a lethal magecraft Mystic Code, carved a spiral through the air, and a tornado roared into being.

Read the light novel or the manga that scene was anime only and goes against how Kirei deals with gun fire he has to predict where the bullets will go and move before they are fired or he uses his bullets resist clothes to deal with them that why he's always covered his head when ever he was fighting someone with a gun then we have this from his fight with maiya

Even the sleeves of the monk’s robes were made from thick Kevlar filaments. It was covered seamlessly with the Church’s special protection spells. 9mm caliber pistol rounds Sensing that Kirei was bulletproof from head to top, Maiya immediately tossed the Calico and pulled out the combat knife located near her thigh

And the Novel even said that if two people fire bullets from different sides they would be able to take Kirei out

From zero light novel if there were two gunners from the start, it was entirely possible to take out Kirei if a coordinated crossfire was used

So ya Kirei does struggling with bullets that anime only scene was ufotable not caring about the power levels of the characters in order to make the fight look flasher
Here is the manga fight https://imgur.com/r/grandorder/oJv89Ik its a one to one version of the fight from the light novel

 

[Hasty12345]

I disagree with the upgrade, and am starting to support the downgrade arguments....

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I disagree with the upgrade, and am starting to support the downgrade arguments....

May I ask why?

 

[Hasty12345]

May I ask why?

It's fairly clear that inverse mechanics put a cap on servant speeds, making close to light speed nigh-impossible.

and given the sheer amount of anti-feats,the current ratings seem fairly high.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I disagree with the upgrade, and am starting to support the downgrade arguments....

If this is also come off with the prize of killing the 4-D Magic Resistance Bullshit then i'm supporting the downgrade lel
EDIT: NVM Its about speed downgrade lel

 

[CrystalValley]

just a side note for fun since this thread might be creating too much tension, looking at the Zero manga Kirei vs Kiritsugu fight reminds me of how ******* Chad older Nasuverse shit was.

i mean look at this shit.

almost died from too much combined sigma and alpha male energy looking at this shit.

off topic a little, but just a single post I felt like mentioning after seeing that fight again. hopefully to settle down potential tension with people just chilling and acknowledging the Chadness of this.

with that being said, i still disagree with the Servant speed upgrades and may or may not make a speed downgrade CRT. but i'm likely too lazy to do that.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Honestly, I wonder if all these disagreements about Nasuverse speed all stem from the fact that the verse itself is suffering from The Long-Running Anime Problem of Power Escalation to make it so that new threats are more threatening than the last threats... And using this topic and another series for example, a long-running series like JJBA in where there is plenty of evidence in-verse and word of god that proves Stand is within relativistic-mftl speed range, Fate has a shit-ton of on-screen and written high-speed feats countered by narrative and WOG speed anti-feats - which makes speed revisions like this a bothersome thing to do since there is proof for and proof against each side.

 

[Kenboxx]

just a side note for fun, looking at the Zero manga Kirei vs Kiritsugu fight reminds me of how ******* Chad older Nasuverse shit was.

i mean look at this shit.

almost died from too much combined sigma and alpha male energy.

with that being said, i may or may not make a speed downgrade CRT. but i'm likely too lazy.

Real talk the zero manga fight for Kirei and Kiritsugu was amazing and was pretty much a one to one of what happened in the light novel

And Kirei being at MHS is very questionable when this guy in his prime is at best a bullet timer when using feats from the light novel even with commands seals to boost him he still had to use his clothing for the most part

Like I want people to understand MHS is around mach 100 if Kirei had that kind of combat speed than Kiritsugu guns would be useless

 

[CrystalValley]

Honestly, I wonder if all these disagreements about Nasuverse speed all stem from the fact that the verse itself is suffering from The Long-Running Anime Problem of Power Escalation to make it so that new threats are more threatening than the last threats... And using this topic and another series for example, a long-running series like JJBA in where there is plenty of evidence in-verse and word of god that proves Stand is within relativistic-mftl speed range, Fate has a shit-ton of on-screen and written high-speed feats countered by narrative and WOG speed anti-feats - which makes speed revisions like this a bothersome thing to do since there is proof for and proof against each side.

in this case, it should come down to consistency, detail, and the amount of showings.

the arguments for generally around supersonic level is the nigh infinite amount of statements describing as such. detailed descriptions beyond hyperbole at this speed, like Bellerophon. entire fights falling apart and not working if characters were faster, on-screen feats of Servant level characters like Kirei struggling with bullets, etc. this is the most reasonable interpretation I'd argue.

the arguments for MHS is that its a middle ground to take between super sonic and anything higher. also scaling Fate to Tsukihime, which doesn't work for a multitude of reasons like Tsukihime completely dwarfing Fate in feats, specifically speed on average. and this site rejects interview statements now, even ones that aren't contradicted. so heavily contradicted Fate scaling to Tsukihime interview statements are thrown out of the window immediately. the MHS interpretation is an understandable interpretation from a middle ground perspective, but too far still honestly.

LS arguments are that pretty much the rest of the feats and statements in Fate are no longer valid while the works themselves are still canon and that we should only accept more recent feats that are honestly shaky on their own and also cherry pick old light speed statements that were clear hyperbole. no offense to the creator of this CRT or the people involved. this is just how I see it. i understand you put effort into this and i'm not trying to shit on you or anything. this interpretation has to overcome both of the other interpretations combined, which on their own already massively outweigh this interpretation. so this really doesn't work.

the latter two interpretations also make entire events from the older series fall apart, like Kiritsugu being on par with Kirei with his guns and Kirei taking on Servants out of his prime, the HA bridge scene, etc. the supersonic feats are also the ones that are legit on screen feats like struggling with bullets and don't even need statements to describe their speed.

 

[Hasty12345]

I don’t think we should “settle for the middle ground” if it’s wrong. If the characters are more reliably much slower, then a downgrade is probably in order.

that’s a topic for another thread however.

 

[CrystalValley]

I don’t think we should “settle for the middle ground” if it’s wrong. If the characters are more reliably much slower, then a downgrade is probably in order.

that’s a topic for another thread however.

agreed. i'm just mentioning their low consistent showings to show how MHS is already shaky and going any higher is just way too far.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Honestly, I wonder if all these disagreements about Nasuverse speed all stem from the fact that the verse itself is suffering from The Long-Running Anime Problem of Power Escalation to make it so that new threats are more threatening than the last threats... And using this topic and another series for example, a long-running series like JJBA in where there is plenty of evidence in-verse and word of god that proves Stand is within relativistic-mftl speed range, Fate has a shit-ton of on-screen and written high-speed feats countered by narrative and WOG speed anti-feats - which makes speed revisions like this a bothersome thing to do since there is proof for and proof against each side.

It's most likely because when they're writing a new scenario they aren't exactly thinking they should keep it consistent like we are, they probably aren't thinking about what happened in F/SN or what happened in F/Z they just write the scenario it's obvious that with the more dramatic power creep post Babylonia that servant showing have improved considerably SOS and MHS all have their own arguments but if you look at Majority of them they come from older works such as Zero and FSN which coincides with the belief that rather than declaring they are Non-Canon they simply got power creeped because of the escalation

Rider? as in Medusa? they never fought.

True Assassin got beat up by Medusa dude

 

[FallenMaou2234]

no offense to the creator of this CRT or the people involved. this is just how I see it. i understand you put effort into this and i'm not trying to shit on you or anything. this interpretation has to overcome both of the other interpretations combined, which on their own already massively outweigh this interpretation. so this really doesn't work.

It's all in good faith my man we just have differing views on the subject theres no problem expressing that

Edit:That said there's always the option of making a new GO servant key given that GO Servants tend to be>>> to their counterparts in other Fate works

 

[RanaProGamer]

Btw, I think we can still use Mash’s FTL feat. The reason being that we do actually see and get statements of Mash getting stronger and faster with each Ascension (such as when she beats Lancelot on her own after ascension) which only happens in certain parts of the story and the game itself shows that there is an increase in the level cap. In which case, servants only after Babylonia would scale.

 

[Regidian]

Fate is not Dragon Ball. Servants do not just slowly get stronger over time. normal GO Servants are not randomly > all normal Servants from previous works.

Arjuna Ivan and Surtr are all wanked to 1-C with immeasurable speed on this site. so GO Servants don't scale to them regardless.

no it isn't. maybe you can argue that the dream world works differently despite nothing implying this, but the series itself is definitely canon.

i think it said they can't go LS, not just FTL. and it means they can't have LS combat speed.

you referring to wanked Beast Kiara? because she's rated as immeasurable speed on here meaning Servants don't scale to anything she does.

BB did not specifically mention travel speed. that is complete headcanon. Meltryllis's feat was travel speed, but Servants burning up was not stated to be only due to travel speed at LS. and considering how quickly it happened, Servants moving anywhere near that speed would still burn them up, but to a slower extent.

except it it never states that only LS travel speed burns up Servants and not combat speed.

They do not get slowy stronger they get better feat bcz power creep like it's tell by like the author himself for sake. Fate zero/sn it's servant being the level of jet fighter.

It said they can't travel to ls speed. Litteraly why karna can punch ftl doesn't mean he can travel to ftl.

No i mean Normal kiara she wasn't a beast at this Time for what i recall (but well even whitout that alter shirou was able to react too)

BB litteraly mentionned by talking of the feat of Meltlilith, no reaso' she talk about combat speed

Except it's show that karna doesn't burn himself while punching at ftl ?

Doesn't need a statement when we have a litteral feat.

 

[Regidian]

Anyways you like to talk about how we ignore all the travel speed statement like 400/500mph and ancient feat speed but you like ignore all the new feat and the lighting feat/ls feat and call them hyperbole when some of them are better described than what you show or litteraly came from material and description skill.

The moment we see that servant have got better feat (in dc/ap, speed) and that the author itself recognize the powerscalling through the different series i don't see the problem.

Like even if you wanted to make a downgraded crt for the speed it would have the same problem than you have with this one, which is the different range of feat, the thing is the recent one goes more higher than the one in fsn/zero.

 

[Duragoji123]

Btw, I think we can still use Mash’s FTL feat. The reason being that we do actually see and get statements of Mash getting stronger and faster with each Ascension (such as when she beats Lancelot on her own after ascension) which only happens in certain parts of the story and the game itself shows that there is an increase in the level cap. In which case, servants only after Babylonia would scale.

I for one agree with this. While I do admit the VN statements are shaky, Servants should still scale to Mash depending on if their Speed stat is D or higher. That is, if FTL Mash is accepted

 

[CrystalValley]

They do not get slowy stronger they get better feat bcz power creep like it's tell by like the author himself for sake. Fate zero/sn it's servant being the level of jet fighter.

It said they can't travel to ls speed. Litteraly why karna can punch ftl doesn't mean he can travel to ftl.

No i mean Normal kiara she wasn't a beast at this Time for what i recall (but well even whitout that alter shirou was able to react too)

BB litteraly mentionned by talking of the feat of Meltlilith, no reaso' she talk about combat speed

Except it's show that karna doesn't burn himself while punching at ftl ?

Doesn't need a statement when we have a litteral feat.

except there are those same low end feats in GO itself still. and the story falls apart when it reaches LS speed for the reasons mentioned before.

Servants moving at LS at all burns them up. Karna FTL statements are hyperbolic outliers

you know authors don't take into account combat and travel speed differences like debaters do, right? and just because BB said LS burns up Servants when Melt was going LS with travel speed doesn't mean BB was only referring to travel speed.

except we have no feat of Karna punching FTL. just a statement that is as hyperbolic as any other.

what feat?

Anyways you like to talk about how we ignore all the travel speed statement like 400/500mph and ancient feat speed but you like ignore all the new feat and the lighting feat/ls feat and call them hyperbole when some of them are better described than what you show or litteraly came from material and description skill.

you're ignoring consistent detailed feats that have existed all the way up to the series your using these high end feats for. your interpretation makes story events fall apart, like Kirei keeping up with Servants despite struggling with bullets, etc.

Like even if you wanted to make a downgraded crt for the speed it would have the same problem than you have with this one, which is the different range of feat, the thing is the recent one goes more higher than the one in fsn/zero.

idk if i'm making a downgrade CRT yet because i'm lazy. but i'd be arguing for the most consistent feats that don't make the story fall apart, so i'd hardly be having the same issues.

@FallenMaou2234 It's most likely because when they're writing a new scenario they aren't exactly thinking they should keep it consistent like we are, they probably aren't thinking about what happened in F/SN or what happened in F/Z they just write the scenario it's obvious that with the more dramatic power creep post Babylonia that servant showing have improved considerably SOS and MHS all have their own arguments but if you look at Majority of them they come from older works such as Zero and FSN which coincides with the belief that rather than declaring they are Non-Canon they simply got power creeped because of the escalation

i can't accept power creep as an argument when Nasu is probably just referring to the stronger enemies like Beasts and when the story events of older works fall apart when not acknowledging low ends.

True Assassin got beat up by Medusa dude

sorry i thought you meant Medusa beat up Kirei.

That said there's always the option of making a new GO servant key given that GO Servants tend to be>>> to their counterparts in other Fate works

better but i still have issues since GO has those same weird showings. regardless, i think we've kind of wrapped up conveying our views to each other on this.

It's all in good faith my man we just have differing views on the subject theres no problem expressing that

one thing i like giving credit to regarding this website is how civil most people are. i usually don't see that much anywhere else.

 

[Duragoji123]

one thing i like giving credit to regarding this website is how civil most people are. i usually don't see that much anywhere else.

Well, that's only for some things on this website to be fair. There is a lot of salt involved with most things, but yeah, I'm cool either way. Everyone has more leniency with comparing their headcanons (let's be real, that's what all of this is at the end of the day lol) on this CRT, it restores my faith somewhat. That's what makes VS debating so fun IMO. Anyways:

So, if Servant speed isn't accepted, I think I agree with everything else

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yeah, guess this is a wrap 100%, should we call the staffs to come here before adding the stuffs that has been accepted?
Also shameless plug for my match: https://vsbattles.com/threads/nikola-tesla-vs-minamoto-no-raikou.133339/

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Yeah, guess this is a wrap 100%, should we call the staffs to come here before adding the stuffs that has been accepted?
Also shameless plug for my match: https://vsbattles.com/threads/nikola-tesla-vs-minamoto-no-raikou.133339/

A wrap??? We've simply come to an impasse with the sides arguing their respective cases

Cause to my knowledge those in agreement with servant speed include

Myself, @RanaProGamer , @Regidian , @Duragoji123 @Mageman460

And those in disagreement include

Yourself @Hasty12345 @HyperZero95 @Kenboxx and @CrystalValley

With most others being neutral Meaning that we need just a little more input before we can call it a wrap I think unless theres some rule I don't know about or something

 

[FallenMaou2234]

With that said since I kinda lost track (teehee) and seemingly with both sides agreeing to disagree I'll call for a proper vote

So if you disagree with servant speed simply quote this post and say disagree and if you agree you should do the same but with agree

This is assuming no one has any qualms with the Void Shiki and Mash additions of course

 

[CrystalValley]

yeah i highly doubt this is considered a wrap. also i think you should update who has agreed and disagreed on stuff in the OP Maou.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

yeah i highly doubt this is considered a wrap. also i think you should update who has agreed and disagreed on stuff in the OP Maou.

Yeah i should probably do that

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Yeah i should probably do that

In addition to Void Shiki: By becoming BDE 2 the user will also have irrelevant strength, irrelevant speed, outerversal durability, higher dimensional manipulation, and large size type 11.

Also by becoming part of the Root, Void must be able to do what Root can do, such as passive Absorption and Existence Erasure: anyone who touches the Root will be absorbed and erased passively. And could be Omnipresence as well?

 

[Maxeez]

Following this, agree with Void Shiki additions and neutral on the rest

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

With that said since I kinda lost track (teehee) and seemingly with both sides agreeing to disagree I'll call for a proper vote

So if you disagree with servant speed simply quote this post and say disagree and if you agree you should do the same but with agree

This is assuming no one has any qualms with the Void Shiki and Mash additions of course

I agree with the Void Shiki stuff, but I am extremely on the fence/neutral about Servant Speed and the rest of the other stuff.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

I agree with the Void Shiki stuff, but I am extremely on the fence/neutral about Servant Speed and the rest of the other stuff.

I don't know I felt the Mash stuff was pretty straightforward her profiles been needing an update and potentially an upgrade since the beginning of LB

 

[FallenMaou2234]

In addition to Void Shiki: By becoming BDE 2 the user will also have irrelevant strength, irrelevant speed, outerversal durability, higher dimensional manipulation, and large size type 11.

Also by becoming part of the Root, Void must be able to do what Root can do, such as passive Absorption and Existence Erasure: anyone who touches the Root will be absorbed and erased passively. And could be Omnipresence as well?

LB 5.2 is about to drop and I was planning on making a full Mash revision then I'll look into it a bit and add those in the next CRT I make because I don't want to add more things to this OP

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

LB 5.2 is about to drop and I was planning on making a full Mash revision then I'll look into it a bit and add those in the next CRT I make because I don't want to add more things to this OP

For the first paragraph I didn't add a new things, it's just something you will get when you get BDE 2, you can see it on the BDE page.

Well yes, for the second paragraph maybe I will add it in the next CRT.

 

[Maxeez]

Shouldn't the Shiki part be evaluated now ? Seems like everyone is fine about it.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Shouldn't the Shiki part be evaluated now ? Seems like everyone is fine about it.

I'll get in touch with some admins then and possibly have them refer this to other Knowledgeable individuals as well

 

[Maxeez]

I'll get in touch with some admins then and possibly have them refer this to other Knowledgeable individuals as well

Alright then

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

For the first paragraph I didn't add a new things, it's just something you will get when you get BDE 2, you can see it on the BDE page.

Well yes, for the second paragraph maybe I will add it in the next CRT.

I hope that you're also going to add "Kiara servant key" as well in your CRT lel

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

I hope that you're also going to add "Kiara servant key" as well in your CRT lel

I've added that to my old CRT, but you know what's going on? yes, Crimson rejected that and said that we have to do a major revision if we want to create a Kiara servant key, so I think he will do the revision

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I can't trust him since it take so long for him to do the promised CRT, we're reaching almost a years and he still not publish it