And Thus a New Shitsorm Was Born: Nasuverse Massive Speed Revisions

[FallenMaou2234]

As I said before I don't know much about grand order sense I can't bring myself to play it mobile games are just not my thing so your saying that servants movements speed are around or lower than sound but their combat speeds are relativistic or ftl

That was what was proposed in the OP although at Minimum it would be the current MHS that Servants have currently for Movment speed that is

 

[Regidian]

I don't know much about grand order but if there are statements like the ones CrystalValley showed then I don't think servants should have Relativistic speed or Ftl I mean when looking at Saber in fate zero light novel



Saber with a good master and after taking off her armor is going at 3 times her normal speed with mana burst is only several times the speed of sound

and from what CrystalValley as shown there are similar statements in grand order I think Relativistic for normal servants is to much I mean Tomoe arrow being only speed of sound but servants Relativistic speed makes no sense

If anything I think having characters like Kirei at MHS might be the problem sense the only way he could deal with Kiritsugu calico m950 is by covering his head with his bullet resist clothes he could not dodge them even in his prime with command seals or block them for that matter the scene the in the anime that has him block them with black keys is filler a character that can move at MHS should easily be able to dodge that sense MHS is around mach 100 which Kirei and for that matter most humans characters in nasuverse are nowhere near so maybe the humans should be down graded

But I don't know much about grand order so maybe I'm wrong and stay night and zero really are no longer important but I'm up to date on case files and strange fake translation I don't think the feats in these light novels are that much higher

Like in strange fake they bring up Alcides normal arrows being faster than sound


Even sound as if that was impressive and we know his arrows are only supersonic




These statement are from strange fake so are you guys trying to say that Alcides normal arrows are useless cause if Relativistic speed is true for servants than his arrows might as well be moving in slow motion for most servants

Relativistic speed is to much I think

For alcides just after we got statement about him sending arrow faster than lightning you know??? I don't know where you get the "it sound impressive" when tell just after than he can send arrow faster.

But the second shot had already been fired.
The bolts of lightning from the autodefensor activated and went to intercept the incoming arrow, but while several bolts had struck it, the arrow managed to slip through the firing interval and came for Gilgamesh. The speed at which electricity transmitted through the air, the speed of lighting in other words, is slower than light, but it should have been fast enough to catch a normal arrow. But the speed of the arrow went beyond the limits of humanity. Gilgamesh instantly manifested his armor and knocked the arrow away with his left gauntlet."


Either way we still got many statement for servant above lightning.

Arthur Pendragon can strike faster than the speed of lightning in Fate/Prototype: Fragments of Sky Silver Drama CD:

Immediately after that, the curved great monster appeared before his eyes. Right in front of him. Slashing it up even faster than lightning, the King of Knights controlled the flash with his wind blade, but the giant beast’s moves were even faster

..

 

[Vietthai96]

Theres already a Saber Shiki profile and the second key on her Ryougi Shiki is the one where the changes proposed here would be added if they are accepted

No, what i mean is Void Shiki should be separate, one for Avatar one for True Form

 

[Paul_Frank]

No, what i mean is Void Shiki should be separate, one for Avatar one for True Form

No, the reason Saber Shiki is an illusion or dream is because of the nature of the crossover, the Shikis and Fujino are the "dreams" of the dead Fujino and Shiki burnt up in the human order incineration

She doesn't mean she's a dream of the root, so there's no reason for an avatar/true form key of Void

 

[CrystalValley]

For alcides just after we got statement about him sending arrow faster than lightning you know??? I don't know where you get the "it sound impressive" when tell just after than he can send arrow faster.

But the second shot had already been fired.
The bolts of lightning from the autodefensor activated and went to intercept the incoming arrow, but while several bolts had struck it, the arrow managed to slip through the firing interval and came for Gilgamesh. The speed at which electricity transmitted through the air, the speed of lighting in other words, is slower than light, but it should have been fast enough to catch a normal arrow. But the speed of the arrow went beyond the limits of humanity. Gilgamesh instantly manifested his armor and knocked the arrow away with his left gauntlet."


Either way we still got many statement for servant above lightning.

Arthur Pendragon can strike faster than the speed of lightning in Fate/Prototype: Fragments of Sky Silver Drama CD:

Immediately after that, the curved great monster appeared before his eyes. Right in front of him. Slashing it up even faster than lightning, the King of Knights controlled the flash with his wind blade, but the giant beast’s moves were even faster

..

that speed of lightning attack was shot down by the auto defensors and likely got slowed down for Gilgamesh to block. also the guy with SNI blocking it doesn't really say much. Strange Fake also has numerous Speed of Sound statements, which is much more consistent with everything presented and speed ranges around there have more consistent detailed statements, meaning hyperbole cannot be argued.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

that speed of lightning attack was shot down by the auto defensors and likely got slowed down for Gilgamesh to block. also the guy with SNI blocking it doesn't really say much. Strange Fake also has numerous Speed of Sound statements, which is much more consistent with everything presented and speed ranges around there have more consistent detailed statements, meaning hyperbole cannot be argued.

Assuming SNI was even active in the first place cause it's active SNI that gives him advanced precog passive SNI is just the information Analysis

 

[CrystalValley]

Assuming SNI was even active in the first place cause it's active SNI that gives him advanced precog passive SNI is just the information Analysis

this is true, but it's just even less credible that Gilgamesh of all people blocked it, along with his auto defensors hitting it and likely slowing down the speed of it, along with speed of sound statements from the same novel.

 

[HyperZero95]

But the second shot had already been fired.
The bolts of lightning from the autodefensor activated and went to intercept the incoming arrow, but while several bolts had struck it, the arrow managed to slip through the firing interval and came for Gilgamesh. The speed at which electricity transmitted through the air, the speed of lighting in other words, is slower than light, but it should have been fast enough to catch a normal arrow. But the speed of the arrow went beyond the limits of humanity. Gilgamesh instantly manifested his armor and knocked the arrow away with his left gauntlet."

So the arrow was not faster than lightning, as the bolts hit it several times. It simply managed to slip past the firing interval.

 

[Regidian]

that speed of lightning attack was shot down by the auto defensors and likely got slowed down for Gilgamesh to block. also the guy with SNI blocking it doesn't really say much. Strange Fake also has numerous Speed of Sound statements, which is much more consistent with everything presented and speed ranges around there have more consistent detailed statements, meaning hyperbole cannot be argued.

You didn't read correctly man. The text litteraly tell that the arrow was not shot down the auto defense just stuck and a little slowed down. + The bolt lightning thing was the auto defensor not arrow

And it was to argue about the guy saying that alcides arrow was juste supersonic...

And not strange of fake have more statement with lightning speed with than sound.. you know not juste because a thing is mentionned to surpass sound that it's only supersonic

 

[Regidian]

So the arrow was not faster than lightning, as the bolts hit it several times. It simply managed to slip past the firing interval.

I mean you need to be faster to pass through the first bolt like it tell just after.

The speed at which electricity transmitted through the air, the speed of lighting in other words, is slower than light, but it should have been fast enough to catch a normal arrow.

 

[CrystalValley]

You didn't read correctly man. The text litteraly tell that the arrow was not shot down the auto defense just stuck and a little slowed down. + The bolt lightning thing was the auto defensor not arrow

And it was to argue about the guy saying that alcides arrow was juste supersonic...

And not strange of fake have more statement with lightning speed with than sound.. you know not juste because a thing is mentionned to surpass sound that it's only supersonic

i didn't say it shot it down. i said it shot it and by extension slowed it down. Fate has way more speed of sound statements than anything else.

I mean you need to be faster to pass through the first bolt like it tell just after.

getting past the auto defensors intervals of firing =/= dodging the bolts of lightning.

 

[Regidian]

i didn't say it shot it down. i said it shot it and by extension slowed it down. Fate has way more speed of sound statements than anything else.

getting past the auto defensors intervals of firing =/= dodging the bolts of lightning.

Most of fate speed of sound statement are in fsn and fate zero tho. If we go to the other we have way more relativist speed. And one more time feat with surpassing the speed of sound doesn't mean only supersonic many time .

I mean the explanation litteraly tell that it couldn't catch it too "but it should have been fast enough to catch a normal arrow." To getting past the interval of firing you obliglatory dodge the first bolt

 

[Regidian]

Anyways we have a massive amount of feat with mention fo servant being equal or above lightning speed. I don't see why all of them should be discarded because for you surpassing the sound = supersonic.

Some other here with okita J who jet pack goes this speed and people was still have to fight her in the summer event.

"Lightless Light that Sparkles at Daybreak: Blue Sky, Three-Stage Thrust
A miraculous blow caused by over-boosting the jet-pack's internal super engine, MAKOTO Drive.

The three-stage thrust is unleashed at sub-light speed level by means of transcending jet acceleration to exceed physical limitations to cause an event saturation in the local space."

 

[CrystalValley]

Most of fate speed of sound statement are in fsn and fate zero tho. If we go to the other we have way more relativist speed. And one more time feat with surpassing the speed of sound doesn't mean only supersonic many time .

I mean the explanation litteraly tell that it couldn't catch it too "but it should have been fast enough to catch a normal arrow." To getting past the interval of firing you obliglatory dodge the first bolt

a normal arrow would not reach Gilgamesh in time within the firing intervals, while a speed of sound one would be. that same character and the arrows were also described to be the speed of sound.

A tiny point of death was closing in on the girl, too close
for her to react in time. No matter what she tried to do now, there was no way of avoiding the
supersonic arrow.-Fate/strange fake Vol 2

The female officer on the third floor drew her bow back to its limit, her aim fixed on him,
and loosed three golden arrows simultaneously. They inscribed a triplicate curve as they sped

towards Jester’s heart at nearly the speed of sound.

But it was the horsewoman who moved first. She was refining a divine aura, even more po-
tent than before, behind the archer’s back. She had leapt off her steed as she fired, and, using it

as a decoy, had gotten behind her enemy.
“...Impudent,” the archer muttered, and started to turn. Before he had the chance, however,
an arrow struck his back, just where his heart was, at the speed of sound.

supersonic descriptions are always the most detailed as well beyond hyperbole, as mentioned with specifics travel speeds, etc.

Most of fate speed of sound statement are in fsn and fate zero tho.

which are canon to GO and GO also has these.

 

[Regidian]

a normal arrow would not reach Gilgamesh in time within the firing intervals, while a speed of sound one would be. that same character and the arrows were also described to be the speed of sound.




supersonic descriptions are always the most detailed as well beyond hyperbole, as mentioned with specifics travel speeds, etc.

which are canon to GO and GO also has these.

I'm not the best in term of bow and arrow but i'm fairly sure normal human with bow can already approach the speed of sound for their arrow

And like the litteral text showed that the arrow was faster than the previous one so where you talk about described to be the speed of sound ? And in which world a speed of sound arrow can pass through lightning bolt.. i mean to pass through the firing interval you obligated to dodge the first bolt even more in the distance that alcide was.

Lightning speed description are too detailed, in which world being more detailed make you more real? And the scene you mentionned here was not even that detailled except the mention of speed of sound + it's like a novel compared to fgo

And the feat you mentionned here was done by who already ?

Early work like Fsn and fate zero got powercreep it's like tell by Nasu himself. Fgo in the late stage have way less of these thing. Except for the travel speed.

 

[Regidian]

Anyways Crimson have tell he have other feat so will wait what he have to tell

 

[CrystalValley]

I'm not the best in term of bow and arrow but i'm fairly sure normal human with bow can already approach the speed of sound for their arrow

And like the litteral text showed that the arrow was faster than the previous one so where you talk about described to be the speed of sound ? And in which world a speed of sound arrow can pass through lightning bolt.. i mean to pass through the firing interval you obligated to dodge the first bolt even more in the distance that alcide was.

Lightning speed description are too detailed, in which world being more detailed make you more real? And the scene you mentionned here was not even that detailled except the mention of speed of sound + it's like a novel compared to fgo

And the feat you mentionned here was done by who already ?

Early work like Fsn and fate zero got powercreep it's like tell by Nasu himself. Fgo in the late stage have way less of these thing. Except for the travel speed.

no an arrow shot from a classic bow does not reach the speed of sound.

the auto defensors struck the arrow several times. it just slipped through the firing intervals before getting hit any further to stop completely.

all lower end speed descriptions are more numerous and more detailed such as Bellerophon being described as 400-500 KMPH.

FSN and Zero got powercreeped by GO higher tiers like Goetia who isn't multiversal, not because of Servants being consistently far superior.

the only hope Fate could have of being fairly rated as lightning timers is trying to scale them to Tsukihime, which can't happen considering there is way too many contradictions and rectons in those interview statements and massive feat differences. Servant speeds should be getting downgraded if anything.

and FYI, both speed of sound and speed of lightning descriptions combined heavily out weigh anything higher like light speed.

 

[Kenboxx]

I would say I agree with crystalvalley however we do have statements of characters who are nowhere near servant level dodging lightning in case files Svin who got owned by Touko was able to dodge Atram lighting magecraft and the text does say that it moves at the speed of real lightning

With those words, the electricity became an enormous hand.

The speed with which it attacked was on par with that of lightning. Powering through the resistance in the air as if it was nothing, in the blink of an eye it struck out at the boy.
How deeply must those words have struck home? Atram's eyes were wide, boiling over with rage. Drawing forth many times the amount of magical energy he had used earlier through his Magic Circuits, he activated his Crest while pouring it into the Battery. The spell bought by the Galiasta family converted that magical energy into lightning with the utmost efficiency.

It was like a dragon.

Anyone looking at that scene would surely be able to envision the jaws of that terrible creature opening wide before him.

Brooking no attempts at flight, the lightning-born dragon soared forward to swallow Svin - who disappeared a moment before contact.

With a speed no human's eyes could follow, Svin leapt away.

Svin is a character who is one of Waver best students but he got one shot by Touko not long after this fight and its clear Touko was holding back sense she just used her runes and not her projector and Nasu said in a interview that Touko runes are not that strong after Mahotsukai with her real strength being her puppets

Eyes burning with fighting spirit, Svin appeared even more intimidating than before. The magical energy feeding his phantasmal form, refined by the boy's powerful Magic Circuits, set the air of the forest to shivering.

"What a reliable knight you have there. Though perhaps he should think more about who exactly he's protecting," Touko muttered.

"...in any case, I'll have to deal with this first," Svin said, prompted by the startling truth his nose had already revealed.

Around him, at a radius of about ten meters, countless Runes had been engraved into the ground. It was absurd to think she had drawn them all since she had arrived a short time ago. At what should have been the origin point were the Runes Naudiz, Jera, and Uruz.

(...no way!)

The meaning behind that string of Runes was most likely "creation." Which meant Touko Aozaki's skill in Runes was so great, she could use Rune magecraft to draw the Runes themselves.

Feeling his hair stand on end, Svin leapt backwards. Thanks to his Bestial Magecraft, he had more than enough speed to outpace even the activation of a Single Action spell.

"Gah!"

Even so, his foot was caught.

One of the magi that had collapsed earlier was grabbing on to his leg. On top of the collapsed magus' body was a Mannaz Rune.

(Mannaz!)

The name was the extent of his knowledge of the Rune. But that Rune, whose meaning was "Man," was almost certainly being used to manipulate-

"Sorry. I don't like letting good tools go to waste," Touko's voice felt distant. Despite standing in the rain, at some point she had lit a cigarette which she now held in her mouth. "Ugh, tastes as bad as I thought."

Before she even finished speaking, the countless Runes surrounding Svin exploded, and dozens of impacts blew away both the Phantasmal Wolf and Svin's consciousness.

And Svin had Flat to back him up and still got rekt Touko herself was shown to not be able to put up a good fight vs Faker if we take Svin being able to dodge lightning magecraft and he's way below Touko then I think a case could be made for servants being way faster

 

[FallenMaou2234]

supersonic descriptions are always the most detailed as well beyond hyperbole, as mentioned with specifics travel speeds, etc

I don't get what you're trying to point out here are you trying to say that the Light speed statments are Hyperbolic and because the statments pertaining to speed of sound are precise SOS Statements>>SOL Statements???

Because i fail to see how "an arrow struck his back, just where his heart was, at the speed of sound" is any more concise than "The maximum speed of the punches he delivers exceeds the speed of light." or how "
there was no way of avoiding the
supersonic arrow" is anymore concise than "At the Speed of Light, the counter attack comes" or "The black calvary man dashes at the Swordsman with light speed"

So i don't know about saying that the speed of sound statments are concise therefore they should be taken more seriously because a good number of these SOL statments are pretty concise too

 

[RanaProGamer]

Nice arguments, I’ll try to explain each feat.

Saber needed command seal amps to cross the distance of around 4 kilometers from the bridge to the building Archer was on and was struggling to deflect shots from him with long intervals.

It states she’s struggling cuz Archer’s shots are getting stronger, not faster. Also crossing 4 km would require Travel Speed, not combat speed.

Bellerophon is only this fast, despite it being a dangerous NP.

if Bellerophon was this fast and Servants were MHS, let alone higher Saber would not have issue getting out of the way completely without any risk of harm.

Not necessarily, the threat of Bellerophon isn’t the speed, but the fact that it’s an AOE NP, not a single target, doesn’t matter if she’s charging at 500 kmph, the AOE after she lands would be faster. This is why Saber had to nuke her with Excalibur instead of evading. Be aware of the circumstances during both the times we saw Rider use Bellerophon. First case, Saber was fatigued and couldn't get out of the AOE range even if she wanted to, she literally passes out afterwards. Second case, Rider needs help from Shirou to block Salter and uses Bellerophon while she's still using Excalibur, which doesn't give Salter any chance to evade.

faster than sound makes Zero Saber struggle

It doesn't state that. It's literally explaining the Invisible Air of Excalibur, and how Lancer is using its sound to determine its length. Nothing about its actual speed.

Saber's with prana burst is only several times faster than sound despite a three times increase in speed.

I mean it does say that the bullets don't match Excalibur's speed, her only being able to parry would mean that she herself isn't able to outrun it, which would make parrying the only choice.

even GO has similar feats, with an NP arrow being this fast.

Roman calls 10 to 20 km a warm-up, meaning it's extremely casual.

Again, travel speed =/= combat or reaction speed.

Tomoe's arrows are only the speed of sound.

Might be the only good argument here.

The light novels and the game make it very clear when its referring to reaction speed, combat speed and even travel speed. Which is why they throw 'sound', 'lightning' and 'light' around instead of sticking to one.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

-Fate/Stay Night:
During Saber Alter vs Rider, Rider was stated as being able to dash at light speed: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551346778021298186/552402261704441866/ACwqu74.png

This is a mistranslation, original states "high speed"

"高速の脚を 以って、黒い騎兵が剣士へと疾走する."
"With her high-speed legs, the black cavalry sprints towards the swordsman"

 

[John985]

also, people to my knowledge haven't even reacted to Archimedes and his NP mid attack.

Its not only the NP of Archimedes that use light, one of his attacks in Link use light as well.

Archimedian Reflection
Summon four reflective mirrors which shoot out lasers. The lasers reflect from mirror to mirror in a forward zig-zag motion.

 

[CrystalValley]

Its not only the NP of Archimedes that use light, one of his attacks in Link use light as well.

still can be aim-dodged. also scaling from Extella is wonky, considering Servants are either summoned by the Moon Cell or Regalia wielders and seem to be way superior to their normal counterparts, considering they can also fight said regalia users.

@RanaProGamer It states she’s struggling cuz Archer’s shots are getting stronger, not faster. Also crossing 4 km would require Travel Speed, not combat speed.

i was saying that she's struggling with arrows that take some considerable time to cross that distance. also it isn't travel speed when said travel feat was going to be preformed with a single jump. not only that, but that jump was going to be so fast that Archer wouldn't have time to even draw out and fire another arrow before Saber reached him.

It doesn't state that. It's literally explaining the Invisible Air of Excalibur, and how Lancer is using its sound to determine its length. Nothing about its actual speed.

you must of not read the right quotes.

The two machine guns were not in any way inferior to the black knight’s angry howl; screeching hotly, they attacked Saber. The bullets, faster than the speed of sound, were still unable to surpass the speed of Saber’s sword. Nevertheless, the speed of twenty-odd bullets per second left her only able to parry.

prana burst is only several times faster than sound despite a three times speed increase.

The Invisible Air that compresses the air and refracts light in an illusion can be used in another way. The instant the bounded field is released it can blow the opponent with a single long distance strike with a gale made out of the super high pressure of the condensed air.

And this was the application of Saber's plan. The point of holding the sword backward in a wide stance was for that― to accelerate the air strike even more.

Released from the golden sword, a jet of air comes out from behind Saber. By releasing her armor to increase her prana burst further, her body changes into a supersonic bullet.

At this point, Saber's speed is three times higher than normal. It's already too late for an ambush attack or an evasion the instant she steps forward. Even if Lancer's spear can deal a serious wound to Saber, he will receive a lethal strike the same instant. That is certainly a strike made to risk one's life for a certain victory, ready to even have her flesh cut or her bones severed. Breaking through the wall of air at several times the speed of sound, the shockwave of the rush blew the surrounding rubbles like leaves.

this is really specific and undeniable.

I mean it does say that the bullets don't match Excalibur's speed, her only being able to parry would mean that she herself isn't able to outrun it, which would make parrying the only choice.

combat speed would also include quick burst of movement like side stepping and other things.

Roman calls 10 to 20 km a warm-up, meaning it's extremely casual.

Roman is trying to make the others feel comfortable. the guy actually firing the arrow says he's doing it with everything he's got.

Again, travel speed =/= combat or reaction speed.

his arrow is an attack that is being used in a unique way to travel. but it is an attack and translates to combat speed.

The light novels and the game make it very clear when its referring to reaction speed, combat speed and even travel speed. Which is why they throw 'sound', 'lightning' and 'light' around instead of sticking to one.

no, they don't stick to one because of hyperbole.

 

[Duragoji123]

Agree with most things here, maybe except the F/SN statements. They seem just a bit like hyperbole tbh, lol.

I can see Relativistic, possibly going up to the FTL ranges based on the Mash calc, but other than that I've got nothing.

So in other words:

Agree with: Mash speed, Void Shiki stuff, most of the Servant stuff

Questionable: Fate/stay night statements

 

[KLOL506]

@Paul_Frank @CrimsonStarFallen

 

[FallenMaou2234]

still can be aim-dodged. also scaling from Extella is wonky, considering Servants are either summoned by the Moon Cell or Regalia wielders and seem to be way superior to their normal counterparts, considering they can also fight said regalia users.

I don't know Simultaneously aim dodging 4 mirrors bouncing light speed attacks off each other seems like it would be a little difficult for an individual that is several times the speed of sound.......

Edit: This came off more sarcastic than I thought the point of this is to say is that for someone who is only several times the speed of sound dodging 4 mirrors bouncing light speed attacks off each other would be almost Impossible in a Combat situation

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Agree with most things here, maybe except the F/SN statements. They seem just a bit like hyperbole tbh, lol.

I can see Relativistic, possibly going up to the FTL ranges based on the Mash calc, but other than that I've got nothing.

So in other words:

Agree with: Mash speed, Void Shiki stuff, most of the Servant stuff

Questionable: Fate/stay night statements

It's all about consistency with those because as you can see if you go through the thread a lot of statments that would go against FTL or Rel servants come from those earlier works such as Stay Night and Zero so it's more to demonstrate that there are statments even that far back

 

[Duragoji123]

It's all about consistency with those because as you can see if you go through the thread a lot of statments that would go against FTL or Rel servants come from those earlier works such as Stay Night and Zero so it's more to demonstrate that there are statments even that far back

True. I just said that they were questionable, not that I flat-out disagreed with them. It's just that it becomes a bit more consistent later on. Though, this still means that most Servants they'd either scale to or past Mash's calc, depending on the Speed stat and such

 

[RanaProGamer]

i was saying that she's struggling with arrows that take some considerable time to cross that distance. also it isn't travel speed when said travel feat was going to be preformed with a single jump. not only that, but that jump was going to be so fast that Archer wouldn't have time to even draw out and fire another arrow before Saber reached him.

you must of not read the right quotes.

prana burst is only several times faster than sound despite a three times speed increase.


this is really specific and undeniable.

combat speed would also include quick burst of movement like side stepping and other things.

Roman is trying to make the others feel comfortable. the guy actually firing the arrow says he's doing it with everything he's got.

his arrow is an attack that is being used in a unique way to travel. but it is an attack and translates to combat speed.

no, they don't stick to one because of hyperbole.

Fair enough, though it seems in later works, there is a clear power cliff as we see with Mash's calc and other high tier servants.

 

[CrystalValley]

Fair enough, though it seems in later works, there is a clear power cliff as we see with Mash's calc and other high tier servants.

i mean even GO has these problems still and it says Servants cannot reach light speed.

@FallenMaou2234 I don't know Simultaneously aim dodging 4 mirrors bouncing light speed attacks off each other seems like it would be a little difficult for an individual that is several times the speed of sound.......

well it's dodging the attack before it actually happens by knowing where it will appear. but again, Extella is also wonky to scale normal Servants off of because they are either summoned by the Moon Cell as Top Servants or are summoned by Regalia wielders with the power of the Moon Cell and can fight other Regalia users. even this site seems to acknowledges this with 1-C immeasurable (ugh) Artoria and Jeanne.

Edit: This came off more sarcastic than I thought

it's fine.

 

[Regidian]

i mean even GO has these problems still and it says Servants cannot reach light speed.

The crt is about relativist servant so i mean itns not a prob (and it say servant with A agility and below can't under normal condition)

 

[FallenMaou2234]

i mean even GO has these problems still and it says Servants cannot reach light speed.

Theres lots of ways to interpret what BB's Statment means specifically because it's noted that Servants CAN go past the speed of Light

"For one, you would need to exceed the speed of light. I mean, that's definitely possible"

but they'd simply burn up after traveling at those speeds which again isn't what's going to be FTL

If you also look at the statment itself it says they wouldnt be able to handle the "stress" of moving at those speeds indicating that it's moving at FTL for a period of time leads to destruction which Melt did as she was launched like a spear during SE.RA.PH

Which leads into the interpretation wherein she is talking about travel speed rather than Combat and reaction speed after all the topic was escaping SE.RA.PH and to do so youd need to exceed the speed of light in terms of travel speed and that would be as you guessed it travel speed which once again as stated in the OP is not what's FTL here

This inturptetaion of BB's statment pertaining to Travel speed is further compounded by the fact that even if you look at most of the Feats and evidence learning towards FTL most of them are in combat and reactions and not let's say running at the speed of Light like Musashi intercepting Castors SOL attack or people being able to fight against Holmes without instantly getting tagged by his Mystic codes which fire beams of light or Saber and Diarmud approaching the speed of Light whilst in combat, Lobo dodging a trap in a microsecond and then a second one even faster than the first

All of these things lend credence to the opinion that whilst Servants generally can't exceed LS travel speed under normal circumstances which coincides with BB's statment and is not what is FTL here, there are showings that do indicate that reacting to LS attacks is possible normally we shouldn't let a single statment gatekeep the verse when there are several showings that would indicate FTL reaction speed is possible

 

[CrystalValley]

The crt is about relativist servant so i mean itns not a prob (and it say servant with A agility and below can't under normal condition)

this is still relevant to the current speed upgrades presented, since my argument is that MHS is already extremely shaky, let alone anything higher.

@FallenMaou2234 Theres lots of ways to interpret what BB's Statment means specifically because it's noted that Servants CAN go past the speed of Light

under special circumstances like Meltryllis and Dantes, yes.

but they'd simply burn up after traveling at those speeds which again isn't what's going to be FTL
If you also look at the statment itself it says they wouldnt be able to handle the "stress" of moving at those speeds indicating that it's moving at FTL for a period of time leads to destruction which Melt did as she was launched like a spear during SE.RA.PH

by that logic Servants would be slowly burning up over time to varying extents if their combat speed was innately in that realm. it also makes entire scenes like the HA bridge scene non-canon which is just not true.

Kirei can also keep up with Servants, yet he struggled with bullets multiple times.

Which leads into the interpretation wherein she is talking about travel speed rather than Combat and reaction speed

moving at those speeds period breaks down a Servant meaning while Meltryllis's feat was a travel feat, since moving at that speed in general can burn Servants up, consistent LS combat preformed by two Servants would burn them up.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

by that logic Servants would be slowly burning up over time to varying extents if their combat speed was innately in that realm. it also makes entire scenes like the HA bridge scene non-canon which is just not true.

It doesnt mean the bridge scene is Non-Canon it simply got power creeped again Servants have simply gotten stronger in later works because they need to adjust power levels to combat later and more powerful antagonists like LBK Arjuna or Ivan again Jeanne Alter was once a legitimate final boss in the game a huge threat but if you compare her to someone like Surtr then you'll find that she'd barely consititue a threat

 

[FallenMaou2234]

It doesnt mean the bridge scene is Non-Canon it simply got power creeped again Servants have simply gotten stronger in later works because they need to adjust power levels to combat later and more powerful antagonists like LBK Arjuna or Ivan again Jeanne Alter was once a legitimate final boss in the game a huge threat but if you compare her to someone like Surtr then you'll find that she'd barely consititue a threat

Hahahahaha plus HA's canonicity itself has always been questionable not saying it isn't just that its questionable

 

[Regidian]

this is still relevant to the current speed upgrades presented, since my argument is that MHS is already extremely shaky, let alone anything higher.

under special circumstances like Meltryllis and Dantes, yes.


by that logic Servants would be slowly burning up over time to varying extents if their combat speed was innately in that realm. it also makes entire scenes like the HA bridge scene non-canon which is just not true.

Kirei can also keep up with Servants, yet he struggled with bullets multiple times.

moving at those speeds period breaks down a Servant meaning while Meltryllis's feat was a travel feat, since moving at that speed in general can burn Servants up, consistent LS combat preformed by two Servants would burn them up.

How it's revelant ? Not being able to go above lightspeed doesn't mean you can't go to relativist or have ftl reaction.

Kiara litteraly could have stopped melt speed when she was doing this you know?

How? It's tell it's can burn if they surpass it not if they are below (and for even for that BB talk about travel speed). 95% of the feat we talk her are either just rela or ls not faster.

We already tell that most of fsn/fgo feat got rectonned many time. Like even at that time servants was described as having only the power of a jet fighter, i suppose we need to call every feat that happen after outlier or hyperbole ?

And no travel speed=/=combat speed it's a thing that pretty much everyone know here and a thing that exist even in normal life. Like even the lore show it. Karna can punch above ftl yet he can't move at ftl... Which it's why he don't burn himself doing it....

 

[CrystalValley]

It doesnt mean the bridge scene is Non-Canon it simply got power creeped again Servants have simply gotten stronger in later works because they need to adjust power levels to combat later and more powerful antagonists like LBK Arjuna or Ivan again Jeanne Alter was once a legitimate final boss in the game a huge threat but if you compare her to someone like Surtr then you'll find that she'd barely consititue a threat

Fate is not Dragon Ball. Servants do not just slowly get stronger over time. normal GO Servants are not randomly > all normal Servants from previous works.

more powerful antagonists like LBK Arjuna or Ivan again Jeanne Alter was once a legitimate final boss in the game a huge threat but if you compare her to someone like Surtr then you'll find that she'd barely consititue a threat

Arjuna Ivan and Surtr are all wanked to 1-C with immeasurable speed on this site. so GO Servants don't scale to them regardless.

plus HA's canonicity itself has always been questionable not saying it isn't just that its questionable

no it isn't. maybe you can argue that the dream world works differently despite nothing implying this, but the series itself is definitely canon.

@Regidian How it's revelant ? Not being able to go above lightspeed doesn't mean you can't go to relativist or have ftl reaction.

i think it said they can't go LS, not just FTL. and it means they can't have LS combat speed.

Kiara litteraly could have stopped melt speed when she was doing this you know?

you referring to wanked Beast Kiara? because she's rated as immeasurable speed on here meaning Servants don't scale to anything she does.

How? It's tell it's can burn if they surpass it not if they are below (and for even for that BB talk about travel speed). 95% of the feat we talk her are either just rela or ls not faster.

BB did not specifically mention travel speed. that is complete headcanon. Meltryllis's feat was travel speed, but Servants burning up was not stated to be only due to travel speed at LS. and considering how quickly it happened, Servants moving anywhere near that speed would still burn them up, but to a slower extent.

And no travel speed=/=combat speed it's a thing that pretty much everyone know here and a thing that exist even in normal life.

except it it never states that only LS travel speed burns up Servants and not combat speed.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Fate is not Dragon Ball. Servants do not just slowly get stronger over time. normal GO Servants are not randomly > all normal Servants from previous works.

Arjuna Ivan and Surtr are all wanked to 1-C with immeasurable speed on this site. so GO Servants don't scale to them regardless.

No one was saying Normal servants=Surtr and LBK Arjuna the premise is that they had to adjust servant strength in order to keep up with the antagonists hence the improvement in Servant showings later in the series we've seen them do it before with Extra so it's not outlandish

i think it said they can't go LS, not just FTL. and it means they can't have LS combat speed.

"Theoretically, yes, as long as you get the coordinates right.
Problem is, once you're in SE.RA.PH, escaping Kiara's sexual allureーkinda like a gravitational field reallyーis no easy task!
For one, you would need to exceed the speed of light.
I mean, that's definitely possible in the digital world, but the Spiritrons that compose Spirit Origins wouldn't be able to survive the stress of those speeds."

There's nothing explicitly saying they can't move at LS all it says here is that if they exceed it then the stress from the Movment would cause them to "burn up" so moving at close to light speed doesn't seem to be in the equation here and arguably SOL as well doesn't cause them to burn, but once you exceed those speeds their Spirit origins can't handle it

BB did not specifically mention travel speed. that is complete headcanon. Meltryllis's feat was travel speed, but Servants burning up was not stated to be only due to travel speed at LS. and considering how quickly it happened, Servants moving anywhere near that speed would still burn them up, but to a slower extent.

But that's the only reference we have no?? that she burnt up because she exceeded LS travel speed on the flip side we have instances of LS and FTL reactions like Karna punching at FTL or Musashi intercepting Castors SOL attack with no mention of the same which would indicate that its exceeding the SOL for a period like Melt did against Kiara that causes you to burn up

no it isn't. maybe you can argue that the dream world works differently despite nothing implying this, but the series itself is definitely canon.

You kinda weren't meant to take this seriously though.........twas a joke commrade

 

[Mageman460]

Arjuna Ivan and Surtr are all wanked to 1-C with immeasurable speed on this site. so GO Servants don't scale to them regardless.

Can you stop bringing up how you think the current Top Tiers are wanked? You've made your point, if you really have an issue with it, make a CRT as it's pretty irrelevant to the current CRT.

 

[Kenboxx]

No one was saying Normal servants=Surtr and LBK Arjuna the premise is that they had to adjust servant strength in order to keep up with the antagonists hence the improvement in Servant showings later in the series we've seen them do it before with Extra so it's not outlandish


"Theoretically, yes, as long as you get the coordinates right.
Problem is, once you're in SE.RA.PH, escaping Kiara's sexual allureーkinda like a gravitational field reallyーis no easy task!
For one, you would need to exceed the speed of light.
I mean, that's definitely possible in the digital world, but the Spiritrons that compose Spirit Origins wouldn't be able to survive the stress of those speeds."

There's nothing explicitly saying they can't move at LS all it says here is that if they exceed it then the stress from the Movment would cause them to "burn up" so moving at close to light speed doesn't seem to be in the equation here and arguably SOL as well doesn't cause them to burn, but once you exceed those speeds their Spirit origins can't handle it

But that's the only reference we have no?? that she burnt up because she exceeded LS travel speed on the flip side we have instances of LS and FTL reactions like Karna punching at FTL or Musashi intercepting Castors SOL attack with no mention of the same which would indicate that its exceeding the SOL for a period like Melt did against Kiara that causes you to burn up

You kinda weren't meant to take this seriously though.........twas a joke commrade

The problem is there is no way for servants to get stronger outside of getting a fame boost we already saw Saber at her peak in stay night with Rin as her master and Kiritsugu she was only able to go several times the speed of sound even after taking her armor off

Having taken off her armor, Saber didn't gain just agility. The prana needed to form and maintain her armor was now available for use in her offensive. This means a lot for the skill of "prana burst" that Saber possessed.
At this point, Saber's speed is three times higher than normal. It's already too late for an ambush attack or an evasion the instant she steps forward. Even if Lancer's spear can deal a serious wound to Saber, he will receive a lethal strike the same instant. That is certainly a strike made to risk one's life for a certain victory, ready to even have her flesh cut or her bones severed. Breaking through the wall of air at several times the speed of sound, the shockwave of the rush blew the surrounding rubbles like leaves.

To say these statement don't matter and putting her anywhere even close to light speed is overkill