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Planck69

Planck69

VS Battles Administrator
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  • Purgy
    I noticed you agreed with the OP's post early into this thread, well the thread has progressed quite a bit since then so I was wondering if your stance was still the same or had changed.

    Also, just for clarification, are you in agreement with lightspeed travel speed via reflecting through the mirrors or do you agree it should apply to combat speed as well?
    Planck69
    Planck69
    I agreed solely with travel speed through the mirrors and not combat speed. I guess I'll see what changed now.
    Purgy
    Purgy
    Thanks for the response, but there's no need if you don't want to, it's been clarified that it only applies to travel speed by the OP.
    Axscell
    Hi Planck. Hope your're doing well.

    So I finally managed to complete the improvements on the pages I was making, and I've also added the scans wherever necessary. Here are the pages: Sabrina Spellman, The Darkness, The Uninvited, The Weird, The Perverse, The Cosmic, The Endless, The Void

    As you may have noticed, there's quite a few more pages now, so hopefully you don't mind.
    I also went ahead and created a page for the verse, which I thought may be somewhat helpful and useful.
    Dereck03
    Planck... Sorry it's me bothering again... Could you close this? Anos Stomps and nobody wanna discuss it.. The Stomps threads related to Anos are getting a bit tiresome.
    View previous comments…
    Lapsad
    Lapsad
    Wait i just finished my work and i want to debate , i've thing with somwhat can be matchup.
    Planck69
    Planck69
    Alright then.
    Dereck03
    Dereck03
    Yo planck... It's me again... Please close the thread, it's already practically accepted that anos wins...
    Dereck03
    Planck... Sorry if I'm disturbing but... Can you close this? No one wants discuss this. No concrete conclusion was ever reached and the thread got completely off topic. This have been already asked for it in the All Purpose Thread but it seems to have been ignored.
    Fireld
    DCAU
    Technically it would upgrade them Batman level characters from hypersonic to mhs+ in reaction and the top tier characters' travel speed (most of them have higher hypersonic or even supersonic) to MHS+.
    I've seen people reviving old thread without getting warnings ,but whatever, I won't do it if you say so.
    Planck69
    Planck69
    Those people either had express permission or weren't caught by staff.
    Fireld
    Fireld
    What about the rest of my comment?
    Planck69
    Planck69
    Words cannot describe how little I care about the DCAU. The issue was the necro.
    Naito-desu
    Question, so if a low 2-C being has NEP2 and a 1-A being doesn't, the 1-A being can't kill low 2-C at all?
    View previous comments…
    Planck69
    Planck69
    I sincerely doubt that. Higher tiers are just raw power so this makes about as much sense as being able to interact with ghosts through sheer strength.

    Who posted this?
    Naito-desu
    Naito-desu
    In a bully thread I made for fodder CM chars that can't interact with NEP 2 lol
    Naito-desu
    Naito-desu
    I realized the link was wrong so just bumping for you to see the thread
    Sorry to bother . I had question about er gen verse . This calculation over here https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Planck69/Making_an_Entrance
    Isn't it a little too iffy .first we know that wang lin has telepathic connection with his clone so he could have told him and then he was coming up so he can meet him . Second it doesn't really work with the speed that he shows in a few chapter after that after he broke through mid stage soul transformation in chapter 490 which he travel 300000 kilometers in half a day and that was said to be his limit.
    View previous comments…
    kamangir16
    No thanks . If there was anything else i bother you another time if it's not a problem .
    Again thanks for answering
    Nepuko
    Nepuko
    I'm going to sleep soon btw. And they're canonically equivalent. Some even fight among them, and use interchangeably each other's realms. So they actually do scale to each other, it's up to Er Gen when to show feats, but if say there's a feat for 1st Spirit Severing then Soul Formations scale to it, otherwise there's no purpose in having cultivation realms.
    kamangir16
    I know it my argument was just about if we should use this feat or not based on renegade immortal not the whole cosmology i don't have problem with them being ftl
    Regidian
    Hi Planck, i'm not sure if you fully knowledge about that, but it was to see if you could give your opinion on this thread.
    It's just about to add a line in the "Nasuverse concept don't follow the usual type" that tell that these still do and act the mostly same thing as type 1/2 concept.

    Planck69
    Planck69
    I have zero knowledge on Nasuverse and honestly don't feel like reviewing this thread.
    Regidian
    Regidian
    Okay, ty for answering
    MinatoSparkle
    I had something to say to LordTracer in the thread you just closed, so yes I have an objection. vsbattles.com/threads/bm-minato-should-be-relativisitic.116294/#post-3780899
    View previous comments…
    MinatoSparkle
    MinatoSparkle
    It's not unanimous though. It's most people. For example FastestThingAlive50 didn't say anything about disagreeing.

    It's a reply to him but it's not specifically for him, it's just an addition to the thread.
    Planck69
    Planck69
    It doesn't really matter regardless. Members far more reliable disagree with it so it's been fully rejected.

    Fine then, I'll unlock it for you post then lock it immediately.
    MinatoSparkle
    MinatoSparkle
    (sigh) fair enough I guess. Not sure quantity is more important than quality but (shrugs).
    Teezar
    View previous comments…
    Teezar
    Teezar
    I just wanted your thought on them as your very knowledgeable on wiki,then you can close it.
    Planck69
    Planck69
    I commented on Mordru but I'm unsure on the New Gods. I'm not that knowledgeable on the ins and outs of DC.
    • Like
    Reactions: Teezar
    Teezar
    Teezar
    Do you know who can reply me on such? And thank you for mordru
    Teezar
    Hello,its me again am reading some comic book,and I will be creating threads based on questions and answer......so I will like to ask if it will cause issues of spamming? (Too many threads) sorry about my English.
    Planck69
    Planck69
    Try to just summarise your questions about a certain topic on a single thread dedicated to said topic.

    There's no real issue with making single question threads but just use common sense here.
    Teezar
    Teezar
    Ok thank you
    JED
    Hi I saw your comment on the Goku vs Egg Salamander thread. I was curious, you say the scaling chain the Goku side presented was greatly exaggerated? I was wondering how so. This is important because on another thread that is currently ongoing this is the key point as to why people are voting Incon.
    Planck69
    Planck69
    I meant the scaling chain involving the Gods of Destruction is exaggerated since only Beerus and Champa scale to the feat and most of the others downscale, as opposed to Sidra being at the bottom of the chain. So, MUI Goku isn't as far above half 2-C as was presented.
    • Like
    Reactions: JED
    The_Unknown_Warrior1
    I had a question if you don't mind answering.
    Can a tier be given for a character if they create a dimension where the concepts of time or space are viewed as irrelevant?
    View previous comments…
    The_Unknown_Warrior1
    The_Unknown_Warrior1
    But if it's possible, is it quantifiable for speed if the fusion is capable of moving in said dimension where time is irrelevant and where the new flow of Majide time takes an eternity to pass? That's all I need to ask
    Planck69
    Planck69
    I have no idea how you'd rate that. Honestly, it seems Unknown to me. Feats involving warped or nonexistent space-time rarely yield anything without a lot of elaboration.
    The_Unknown_Warrior1
    The_Unknown_Warrior1
    Yeah that seems to be the case though I'm still reading the manga at the moment so I'll see if there's any context to it or not, now there are potentially other quantifiable feats like Don Patch becoming an eternal, inescapable extra dimensional story which was described as being 4th dimensional, the whole Majide Time thing and some other feats but I'll save that for a future revision thread.
    Still thanks for the feedback
    Ruphas_Mafahl123
    Yo sorry to bother you with this question, but I just want to know your opinion becouse I've been debating with a guy on discord about this battle.

    How do you think the Naruto verse would be able to get rid of Pennywise's Avatar given his 1-A smurfery and type 9 Inmortality??
    Grand_Saver_Ritsuka
    zndrmme0miv61.png
    LIFE_OF_KING
    Hello, sorry bother you, I have a small question
    • "After growing and advancing for millennia, the Titans were giant, all-knowing entities of spiritual perfection, who could no longer be confined by this mortal plane. In the final stage of their evolution, they ascended into the heavens to become Metal Gods."
    They basically transcended an plane of existence by considering it limited. What can this be considered? (Tier, ability, resistence, etc)
    Planck69
    Planck69
    This is very vague. It could mean transcendence but it could just be a flowery descriptor for their civilization advancing to godhood.
    Migue79
    Hey! Hope you're having a good day.

    Would you be willing to check this CRT to see if it checks out? It's for a verse that has been forgotten in time and in desperate need of revisions lol

    If you are willing, take your time in reading this. It's a bit wordy. 😅

    Thanks in advance!
    Planck69
    Planck69
    I'll try to give it a read.
    Migue79
    Migue79
    Thank you very much for your input. :)
    WeatherShaman
    Why did you close my thread without letting me reply to you? I've only now seen your replies.
    View previous comments…
    WeatherShaman
    WeatherShaman
    I actually really really want you to understand this, so go on a journey with me:

    Let’s start by addressing this question: What is Tier 0.

    First and foremost, “Tier 0” is a terminology that you guys picked, and therefore it can mean anything you want. It can mean cats, it can mean pickle jars. Now, the meaning you ascribe Tier 0 is not reducible to either cats or pickle jars, but to an existence that holds the endpoint of infinite potentiality in a way that stands infinitely apart from every other potentiality. On top of that, you represent it through mathematics. Like how there’s an infinite amount of numbers between 1 and 2.

    Here is where the problems start. Your representation is not consistent with the meaning that you seek to ascribe Tier 0 and even with the traits possessed by characters that you attribute this tier to. Unless you want to claim that these characters are not reducible to Tier 0 and you only use it because of indexing pragmatism as you specified in that footnote on "Tiering System".

    So we have a contradiction on the table already: Your meaning of Tier 0 seems to point towards the endpoint of infinite potentiality, which is reflected by some choices you made with respect to characters that you deem as Tier 0 (The Amaranth), yet you self-admittingly represent the tier through mathematics because of pragmatism. However, the endpoint of infinite potentiality is automatically outside of mathematics and logic. And I have arguments for this.

    But why is that the case? You might ask. Go on a journey with me:

    The characters you deem as Tier 0 are more than what you represent to be Tier 0, and philosophers, theologists, etc. have thought about the proposition pertinent to the nature of infinite potentiality for a very long time. This proposition can be summed as "God". Not God as in "Zeus", but as in "The Fundamental God". Something like "Allah", "The Dao", even "Shiva" (though Shiva himself is high 1-A because he's an avatar of The Infinite Void which is Tier 0). These Gods are all Tier 0. They hold the Absolute Endpoint of Infinite Potentiality.

    And this is the quintessential understanding of what all these people came to realize about something that is the Absolute Endpoint of Infinite Potentiality. Everyone from Laozi to Carl Jung to Schopenhauer to many others has this common ground between them when it comes to this kind of Being, let's call this Being “The Absolute Being" for simplicity, and I will try to summarize this understanding:

    "The Absolute Being is that which can never be comprehended and that which is fundamental and necessary to everything."

    - Me

    And this is Tier 0: Something that is necessary and fundamental to everything. Not aleph null, not infinity, none of that. The aleph null thing might be relevant for the lower tiers but not for Tier 0. For this tier represents something upon which everything else depends on, of which its most fundamental form is most competently described as nondualistic and therefore incomprehensible for those dualistic existences depending on it (I say the most fundamental form because those dependent on it are also IT expressed in a finite way). Pretty much all the accurately tiered Tier 0 chars are that: The Amaranth, The Creator from Umineko. So Tier 0 is necessary for everything “else”. Tier 0 is necessary, everything from Tier High 1-A to the lowest depends on it. Huge difference there. I guess you could say that the only meaningful infinite disparity in potentiality is between 0 and everything else. That goes for the reason that from High 1-A to the lowest everything has a cap, no matter how far that cap is. But Tier 0 is the only existence with no cap.

    Let's break down this statement more:

    Why is this kind of being necessary?

    There's no doubt that there is existence, you can verify this with the epistemological truth "I think therefore I am". So we postulate existence. Generally, in philosophy, there are 2 types of existence: Necessary Existence, and dependent existence.

    Necessary Existence is something that can never be described by a dependant existence, but we can make some inferences about such Existence and our relationship with It. The Necessary is Absolute by definition. It has to be because otherwise, it's not Necessary. Something Necessary has to be Fundamental and something Fundamental is Absolute. There also can’t be more than 2 Absolutes because that means neither is Absolute. You can have an infinite amount of High 1-A Tiers but with Tier 0, you CAN’T.

    Now, the level of "Absolute" is debatable. There are different possibilities of Absolute:

    1. Something that can do anything no matter what it is: Can manipulate contradictions, can create square circles, can even make it so that THEY exist and not exist at the same time. Which would be "Hard Nonduality";

    2. Something that can still manipulate contradictions, create square circles, but they most likely cannot make it so that they exist and not exist at the same time. This is Soft Nonduality. (This is where I stand. THE MINIMUM we postulate is existence. So they have to at least exist. Although this doesn't exclude them being able to erase their own existence, which would not be reversible);

    3. Something maximally strong. Can do anything that can be done. Excludes making square circles (In my view, this is not likely. They. Have. To. Be. Able. To. Make. Square. Circles. ****. It [maybe].).

    So The Fundamental is characterized by being Absolute which entails being Symmetrical, Nondual, Infinite Potential-Having, and these traits can be best represented by dual beings like us through the law of noncontradiction. Why? Because logical contradictions are the most taboo things that can ever exist for us. A square circle is literally not a thing. You can’t imagine it, just like The Absolute Existence.

    This is how I represent the Absolute’s powers and subsequently nonduality through syntax:

    Absolute: p ∧ ¬ p is True (unless you want to argue that an absolute is just maximally strong and can't generate square circles & make contradictions like "The sky does and doesn't exist." coherent. But trying to define an absolute is useless so we'll put a fork in that debate.)

    Finite: p ∧ ¬ p is False, but p ∨ ¬ p can be True.

    Natural language:

    Absolute: The proposition: "The sky does(p) and(∧) doesn't(¬ p) exist." is True.

    Finite: The proposition: "The sky does(p) and(∧) doesn't(¬ p) exist." is False, but the proposition: "The sky can or(∨) can not exist." is True.

    Why is this kind of being non-describable?

    Well… explaining it kind of beats the idea. They just are. Dual beings presuppose disparity, Nondual beings don’t. You just can’t conceptualize Nonduality because your mind Works in Duality. And that is why Nonduality can never be represented through Dual languages like math. It’s like trying to describe math with physics as opposed to the reverse. And even this analogy is not a true analogy because it works in duality.

    This brings us to our main dish, my argument in the thread that you closed.

    IF we assume the aforementioned premises then we’re left with this entailment and reductio:

    The Tier 0 Being is Absolute, and that is true because we take it as a presupposition given the fact that we address the Absolute endpoint of potentiality; 2) You can't have 2 Absolutes. It doesn't make sense, saying that you can have 2 Absolutes means neither is Absolute; 3) Something Absolute is also meta-permeant. It can bypass any fictional meta. No... it does that simply by inferring the previous 2 premises.

    C: There’s only 1 Tier 0 per Omniverse. And yes, our universe is also part of that so fiction is real and every universe is connected and we can postulate that via the argument from contingency + the entailment that infinite potentiality in the nondual on every axis entails infinite potential in the dual.

    Brother Mohammed explains the argument from contingency very well. < Why is it the case that such existence exists.

    So Idk man. I honestly call for a complete revision of Tier 0. It's best represented through the law of noncontradiction and where it breaks, and we have the backed-up inferences above of what that means.

    “Armchair Philosophy”. Look, barely of what I say here is something new. I just ride on the shoulder of giants here: Schopenhauer, Carl Jung, Nietzsche, eastern religions, many great arguments, a preponderance of reason that pinpoints to these answers... etc. So watching 1 Vsauce video once doesn't warrant getting cocky over this stuff especially in front of these beasts.

    If you think this proposition is clear cut then you haven't paid attention to the literature
    Planck69
    Planck69
    You do realise that Tier 0 is a site chosen metric right? It's not a philosophical concept, it's what a bunch of people who want to tier fictional characters online decided to use as a benchmark for a certain level of power based on mathematics. This "beyond omnipotent beyond description" stuff isn't a thing here.

    Seriously, go bother the people listed as knowledgeable members on the tiering system about this. I have neither the will nor the interest to debate why our sites standards aren't wrong for not using something that doesn't exist.
    WeatherShaman
    WeatherShaman
    I realize that and even specified that I understand how Tier 0 is a metric used for pragmatic reasons. So I've been pretty perceptive of that. I'm just saying that Tier 0 CHARACTERS are more than what you take to be Tier 0. Way, way more than that. There's a lot of mis-tiering as well.. Maria shouldn't be Tier 0 and I say this as an avid Umineko fan. There are a lot more inferences to be made about such an existence than linear mathematical infinity. And you even touch that briefly in the description of Tier 0: "able to blah blah transcendental concepts and such", so you hint at more but you don't accept when that more is cleared up which is a bit puzzling but ok.

    Ok, I just wanted to clear my position up

    Have a good day

    Also, it exists.
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