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Ben 10: downgrade, upgrade & re-re-justification.

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Reiner04

Reiner04

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Like, fundamentally you could say that you have one timeline that spans multiversal space. In the beginning, that space is empty. Then you rewrite the past so that 3 universes already existed in the space (which is the same as creating 3 timelines). So you rewrite the timeline of the multiversal space.
Then you do the same again to add 5 more.

Technically, you could say you only spawned several more multiverse spanning timelines. Like, now a empty multiverse spanning timeline, a multiverse spanning timeline with 3 universes and a multiverse spanning timeline with 8 universes exist. The total number of timelines is only 11.
If you are able to travel between multiverse spanning timelines, you would also be able to switch back from the multiverse spanning timeline with 8 universes to the one without any universes/timelines.

However, if you do that specifically via time travel, then that could be a good indicator that you are actually dealing with an additional time dimension. Because that indicates that the progression of the creation of timelines is done within a (presumably continuous) flow of time and that time wouldn't be that of the regular past where those universes always existed."
Click to expand...
Anyway, i would like to have a input once more based off clarifications in recent staff thread,

As such, I don't have any justification for Universal Timeline to qualify, so should be back to possibly 2-A (later on in another crt maybe after the and in case standard changed to contrary to current one). I'll think about it later on.

for Crosstime/timestream is a time dimension that orders all of existence from past to future. Ben and Rook were able to time travel from present space beyond to all the way to white space (dimensions of no space & time), we saw them time travelling. We know they travelled each point in Crosstime which should consist of the point when chronal-randomization barrier wasn't activated, should consist of point when nullvoid didn't existed (galvans created it after all), should consist of point when Universe was erased by annhilarrgh. And so, all this achieved by time travel proving existence of extra temporal dimension as per DT's clarification. 5D.


New addition: we know post annhilarrgh event, timestream's time didn't existed but all still events happening there and events of all of timestream were still connected timeloop. Proving second layer of time axis beyond Timestream. 6D.

All this is already accepted, and most obviously known in ben ten, as such I don't think scans are necessary but here we go.

If one doubt, can check the cosmology page of vsbw, all scans and facts are stated there as it is.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Ben 10 Cosmology

It is a big Universe, Ben, full of wonder and variety and... yes, incredible grossness.Rook to Ben This page will cover Ben 10 Terminology and Cosmology. This page will use statements from the Ben 10 series, Novels, and Other verified information from secondary sources that are supported by the...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com


Note: Universal Timeline downgrade only will apply if new standard (by DT) started to work contrary of currently applied standard. If not then it'll be a upgrade for white void to even a higher lvl of time (7D).

Agree: @LuffyRuffy46307, @Boyinluv2002, @ProfectusInfinity, @TheGreatJedi13, @Killerdrone123, @zaraus

Disagree: @Georredannea15 (irrelevant)

Exist: @Fixxed, @TWILIGHT-OP
 
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Reiner said:
Anyway, i would like to have a input once more based off clarifications in recent staff thread,

As such, I don't have any justification for Universal Timeline to qualify, so should be back to possibly 2-A. I'll think about it later on.

for Crosstime/timestream is a time dimension that orders all of existence from past to future. Ben and Rook were able to time travel from present space beyond to all the way to white space (dimensions of no space & time), we saw them time travelling. We know they travelled each point in Crosstime which should consist of the point when chronal-randomization barrier wasn't activated, should consist of point when nullvoid didn't existed (galvans created it after all), should consist of point when Universe was erased by annhilarrgh. And so, all this achieved by time travel proving existence of extra temporal dimension as per DT's clarification. 5D.
Click to expand...
You left the cosmology page, but could you please leave the scan and feat here again for this? Because it is a bit too long
It would be better to see this because basically this could also be this case
Reiner said:
New addition: we know post annhilarrgh event, timestream's time didn't existed but all still events happening there and events of all of timestream were still connected timeloop. Proving second layer of time axis beyond Timestream. 6D.
Click to expand...
Is there any evidence or reference that the extra temporal dimension present in the time stream flows along a different direction and axis? Even if there is a reference, I don't think it would be 6-D, because I have no idea how 6-D got here, at best it looks like 5-D.

The space covered by it has at most "possibly 2-A", yes there is no 6-D, it only looks like 5-D.
 
Georredannea15 said:
You left the cosmology page, but could you please leave the scan and feat here again for this? Because it is a bit too long
It would be better to see this because basically this could also be this case
Click to expand...
You don't have to read the entire cosmology page, just read nullvoid section, it's written that it was created by galvans and is a separate spacetime continuum which is a part of Universal Timeline which in turn is a part of space beyond that is serviced by Crosstime. Ben was able to go from present to all the way to the beginning of creation via timetravel, means he crossed the point of nullvoid creation and all of past eventually, proving hypertimline.
Georredannea15 said:
Is there any evidence or reference that the extra temporal dimension present in the time stream flows along a different direction and axis? Even if there is a reference, I don't think it would be 6-D, because I have no idea how 6-D got here, at best it looks like 5-D.
Click to expand...
The Crosstime above which I proved is Hypertimeline aka 5D continuum in turn is serviced by the timeline of white void, it's proven by the fact that even when timestream didn't exist, timeloop was still being followed and was there which was set by paradox, proving the existence of time beyond Hypertimeline.

This case is similar to the analogy of Hypertimeline and regular spacetime continuum.
 
Since nullvoid section can be read by anyone, it's of few lines in the blog man. In case you're lazy enough to cross check then just go with trust me bro policy. I have provided the clip of ben timetravelling across Crosstime/timestream right to the beginning in the OP. So ig all good.
 
Reiner said:
You don't have to read the entire cosmology page, just read nullvoid section, it's written that it was created by galvans and is a separate spacetime continuum which is a part of Universal Timeline which in turn is a part of space beyond that is serviced by Crosstime. Ben was able to go from present to all the way to the beginning of creation via timetravel, means he crossed the point of nullvoid creation and all of past eventually, proving hypertimline.
Click to expand...
Yes, I have seen them. Thx

But time travel from the present to the past doesn't mean a different axis, as he is said here. Whether you do it on parallel timelines or on the same timeline, the times will still flow on the same axis because what DT is basically talking about is not going from the present to the beginning on a temporal dimension, it's about going from a timeline via time travel with multiverses to a different (not parallel) timeline with no universes/timelines. (Yeah, both are different)

You seem to have confused the two. This time travel can still be done in the same timeline or between parallel timelines extending along the same axis
Reiner said:
The Crosstime above which I proved is Hypertimeline aka 5D continuum in turn is serviced by the timeline of white void, it's proven by the fact that even when timestream didn't exist, timeloop was still being followed and was there which was set by paradox, proving the existence of time beyond Hypertimeline.

This case is similar to the analogy of Hypertimeline and regular spacetime continuum.
Click to expand...
You seem to have stated in the OP that cross-time and timestream are the same and in this case it comes down to what I said in the first place(maybe i could be wrong), so with what you said this could just be 5-D, but I can assume it is different and say the following;

There is a time loop before the timestream exists and I think the basic claim is that the timestream has a hyper-time after it exists.

Even if the timestream has a different timeline or time dimension of its own after it came into existence, it doesn't give you extra dimensionality in that way, just by being an "overarching" time dimension, unless it can be proven that it has a different direction and axis than the pre-existing time loop, i.e. time dimension. That was the basic thing the OP was trying to say, and that's what I did for these standards.
 
Georredannea15 said:
Yes, I have seen them. Thx

But time travel from the present to the past doesn't mean a different axis, as he is said here. Whether you do it on parallel timelines or on the same timeline, the times will still flow on the same axis because what DT is basically talking about is not going from the present to the beginning on a temporal dimension, it's about going from a timeline via time travel with multiverses to a different (not parallel) timeline with no universes/timelines. (Yeah, both are different)

You seem to have confused the two. This time travel can still be done in the same timeline or between parallel timelines extending along the same axis

You seem to have stated in the OP that cross-time and timestream are the same and in this case it comes down to what I said in the first place(maybe i could be wrong), so with what you said this could just be 5-D, but I can assume it is different and say the following;

There is a time loop before the timestream exists and I think the basic claim is that the timestream has a hyper-time after it exists.

Even if the timestream has a different timeline or time dimension of its own after it came into existence, it doesn't give you extra dimensionality in that way, just by being an "overarching" time dimension, unless it can be proven that it has a different direction and axis than the pre-existing time loop, i.e. time dimension. That was the basic thing the OP was trying to say, and that's what I did for these standards.
Click to expand...
Agree to disagree.
 
Reiner said:
Agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
Obviously it would be good for both of us if you could clarify these things, because if I feel that there is not enough support, I can open another revision for Ben10 without hesitation, addressing all the points one by one. 👀 🌚
 
Reiner said:
Who am I to assume. You got problem solve it. I'll keep going.
Click to expand...
Lmao don't say that bro. But what I mean is that this thread can be stopped for now until that issue is concluded because one of the underlying foundations is currently being revised outside this logic. And assuming this "hypertimeline" nonsense will also get a new comprehensive , "I think we should wait for both threads here. Because the draft is not prepared yet "
 
1089560527803518976.webp
 
as always DT makes sense. if time travel allowed them to return to the White nothingness without space and time which has been confirmed to be where Timestream was created or originated from then that argues a different time dimension.
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
as always DT makes sense. if time travel allowed them to return to the White nothingness without space and time which has been confirmed to be where Timestream was created or originated from then that argues a different time dimension.
Click to expand...
Even though it has a different time dimension, the important thing is that it flows in a different direction and a different axis than before. But anyway, personally I'd rather wait for that thread. Also, that's not exactly the case, it's basically time travel from the present to the past(beginning of creation.)
Ben was able to go from present to all the way to the beginning of creation via timetravel, means he crossed the point of nullvoid creation and all of past eventually, proving hypertimline.
Click to expand...
You can basically do this in the same time dimension or the same time axis.

But... anyway.

1129166506840821830.png
 
Georredannea15 said:
Even though it has a different time dimension, the important thing is that it flows in a different direction and a different axis than before. But anyway, personally I'd rather wait for that thread. Also, that's not exactly the case, it's basically time travel from the present to the past(beginning of creation.)

You can basically do this in the same time dimension or the same time axis.

But... anyway.

1129166506840821830.png
Click to expand...
You can't except unless but first I'll explain

that's the main caveat of time travel you can only travel within the constraints of time
if somehow that time travel brought you to a time before Time even began that heavily implies and points to a higher time which could be a higher layer of timeline or a hyper-timeline. (Do note this is far different from traveling to a space where time and space was deleted as those are covered by timeless void standards)
This is also basically the answer to most Time paradoxes outside timeline branching an existence of higher time

If a time dimension and Time axis is shown to be able to transcend itself by having someone travel to a time before time within that time dimension that implies the time dimension not being regular time dimension governing a single flow of time across the multiverse. but also a flow of time above it that allows time travel to work even before regular time existed and ben 10 showed this
and the continuumela's existence heavily implies this as they created the time stream. how can they create it if there isn't a time to dictate the cause and effect or the past and the future that dictates it's creation
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
You can't except unless but first I'll explain

that's the main caveat of time travel you can only travel within the constraints of time
if somehow that time travel brought you to a time before Time even began that heavily implies and points to a higher time which could be a higher layer of timeline or a hyper-timeline. (Do note this is far different from traveling to a space where time and space was deleted as those are covered by timeless void standards)
This is also basically the answer to most Time paradoxes outside timeline branching an existence of higher time

If a time dimension and Time axis is shown to be able to transcend itself by having someone travel to a time before time within that time dimension that implies the time dimension not being regular time dimension governing a single flow of time across the multiverse. but also a flow of time above it that allows time travel to work even before regular time existed and ben 10 showed this
and the continuumela's existence heavily implies this as they created the time stream. how can they create it if there isn't a time to dictate the cause and effect or the past and the future that dictates it's creation
Click to expand...
We do not assume such a thing. I have already explained each of them one by one with quotes. This situation is different from the situation DT mentioned and he also commented on this situation. But as i said, "we're still waiting for draft"
 
Georredannea15 said:
We do not assume such a thing. I have already explained each of them one by one with quotes. This situation is different from the situation DT mentioned and he also commented on this situation. But as i said, "we're still waiting for draft"
Click to expand...
However, if you do that specifically via time travel, then that could be a good indicator that you are actually dealing with an additional time dimension. Because that indicates that the progression of the creation of timelines is done within a (presumably continuous) flow of time and that time wouldn't be that of the regular past where those universes always existed.
Click to expand...
DT said this himself in response to firestorm questions
I did not assume this I followed a principle that which DT established with his examples

how explicit do you want the evidence to be? because no matter what evidence we give you. if you keep asking for evidence that doesn't exist for the verse and dismiss anything else that doesn't meet this evidence as not qualified despite multiple arguments pointing towards it more than the initial assumptions and multiple principles that make it very reasonable to conclude. then we will never have an agreement here
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
DT said this himself in response to firestorm questions
I did not assume this I followed a principle that which DT established with his examples

how explicit do you want the evidence to be? because no matter what evidence we give you. if you keep asking for evidence that doesn't exist for the verse and dismiss anything else that doesn't meet this evidence as not qualified despite multiple arguments pointing towards it more than the initial assumptions and multiple principles that make it very reasonable to conclude. then we will never have an agreement here
Click to expand...
You left the cosmology page, but could you please leave the scan and feat here again for this? Because it is a bit too long
It would be better to see this because basically this could also be this case
Click to expand...
Instead of saying anything, go to the link in this quote. You'll see what DT has to say
 
Also Where does 7D come from? What you're using for 7-D, you're already using for the 6-D rating @Reiner Because this thing wasn't a 7D even by the standards you changed
 
Georredannea15 said:
Instead of saying anything, go to the link in this quote. You'll see what DT has to say
Click to expand...
the imagery is of reference to Loki's branching timeline
Say the red arrow is the time travel. That is traveling to before the timeline branched, but still to the regular past.
Click to expand...
He is talking about a different scenario here now.

The thing is a hyper-timeline can be identical to a branching timeline based on what theory you follow
such as for example if you lay out 2 time axis in separate direction

like every snapshot has a past present and future in the multiverse time axis
or every snapshot in the universe's time axis has past present and future
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
the imagery is of reference to Loki's branching timeline

The thing is a hypertimeline can be identical to a branching timeline based on what theory you follow
such as for example if you lay out 2 time axis on separate direction

like every snapshot has a past present and future in the multiverse time axis
or every snapshot in the universe time axis has past present and future
Click to expand...
Yes, and according to him, you will need a specific statement for this, I don't know how many times I have said this. And please don't try to teach me the damn thing I'm doing

And yes, traveling from one timeline to another with time travel, or going back in time, is never extra temporal axis evidence in this case
 
Georredannea15 said:
Also Where does 7D come from? What you're using for 7-D, you're already using for the 6-D rating @Reiner Because this thing wasn't a 7D even by the standards you changed
Click to expand...
6D if the current standard changed to contrary, since then, Universal Timeline will be downgraded (by whoever who will make a crt and prove that it does). But right now, it's 7D cosmology because of additional white space timeline that DT statement approved of. As everyone knows, white space is new thing.
 
Georredannea15 said:
Yes, and according to him, you will need a specific statement for this, I don't know how many times I have said this. And please don't try to teach me the damn thing I'm doing

And yes, traveling from one timeline to another with time travel, or going back in time, is never extra temporal axis evidence in this case
Click to expand...
Ben 10 is not traveling from one timeline to another
Ben 10 specifically showed being able to travel before time existed before the whole multiverse were created in the first place
This is literally the case that DT said may possibly qualify
UNLESS
they are shown to be able to travel to this moment before time which now hints a lot at the extra time axis which makes it more likely than possibly

You're hard to talk and reason with.
I will not have this back-and-forth anymore
agree to disagree.
I'm unfollowing the thread
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
I knew I was right to not reason with him since beginning. Few ppl just don't want to be convince, they don't have in mind "how the verse can be upgraded" but rather "how it can't" and push rocket science for the latter. Well i lean towards the former, obviously. No hate to any verse.
 
Reiner said:
6D if the current standard changed to contrary, since then, Universal Timeline will be downgraded (by whoever who will make a crt and prove that it does). But right now, it's 7D cosmology because of additional white space timeline that DT statement approved of. As everyone knows, white space is new thing.
Click to expand...
for Crosstime/timestream is a time dimension that orders all of existence from past to future. Ben and Rook were able to time travel from present space beyond to all the way to white space (dimensions of no space & time), we saw them time travelling. We know they travelled each point in Crosstime which should consist of the point when chronal-randomization barrier wasn't activated, should consist of point when nullvoid didn't existed (galvans created it after all), should consist of point when Universe was erased by annhilarrgh. And so, all this achieved by time travel proving existence of extra temporal dimension as per DT's clarification. 5D.
Click to expand...
I mean, you've already used white space for the 5-D rationale, and the 6D timestream comes from the extra-temporal dimension argument. And it's kind of based on 5-D space beyond

That's why I asked you to wait, because both the standards of space beyond and inclusive/extra temporal dimensions are changing, and once they change, your temporal dimension arguments with 5-D space beyond may be refuted, causing it downgrade to 2A.
 
Georredannea15 said:
I mean, you've already used white space for the 5-D rationale, and the 6D timestream comes from the extra-temporal dimension argument. And it's kind of based on 5-D space beyond

That's why I asked you to wait, because both the standards of space beyond and inclusive/extra temporal dimensions are changing, and once they change, your temporal dimension arguments with 5-D space beyond may be refuted, causing it downgrade to 2A.
Click to expand...
Idc.
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
Ben 10 is not traveling from one timeline to another
Ben 10 specifically showed being able to travel before time existed before the whole multiverse were created in the first place
This is literally the case that DT said may possibly qualify
UNLESS
they are shown to be able to travel to this moment before time which now hints a lot at the extra time axis which makes it more likely than possibly

You're hard to talk and reason with.
I will not have this back-and-forth anymore
agree to disagree.
I'm unfollowing the thread
Click to expand...
And DT's response to Firestorm stated that time travel doesn't provide the extra axis to go back to where these timelines began, or even to before the timeline
 
Alr, I suggested that we should just wait for other threads. Since I'm going to open something comprehensive, it's not much of a problem if this thread goes through or not, mehh whatever
 
Ren1999 said:
Georredannea15 will create another Thread downgrade tier system again, so that Ben 10 doesn't become L1C
Click to expand...
Nahh..."Greater /larger than 2A = Low1-C" and "extra/different temporal dimension = Low1-C" nonsense has just been fixed.


Basically, this Low1-C(beyond space, timestream) affected because they are based on them
 
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