As Planck explained succinctly. Another thing is, we use parallelism + non-insignificant size of 5D RBR.
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TyphonEX
Alright, so if they're just observable universe sized, then why is a non-insignificant 5-D space necessary to contain them?Planck69 said:
Would you mind explaining or pointing me to where I can find an explanation then? Your blog doesn't explain the whole parallelism thing and how it relates to God of War, and that seems to be where my issue is. And where is parallelism shown?Planck69 said:
Planck69
The core point is that since these 4-dimensional spaces are parallel to each other, they'd need to be displaced across a higher-dimensional space. Since the branches of the Yggdrasil are infinitely long, this space is infinite as well.
All of this and more was already brought up on both threads.
All of this and more was already brought up on both threads.
TyphonEX
Also, even if it were the case that one could not travel between realms even WITH the ability to fly the gigantic distances necessary, this could be explained by the fact that the realms were sealed at the time instead of being parallel, a better explanation considering the fact that in the clip you linked to in one of the threads, Matt Sophos confirmed that you could indeed travel from Alfheim to the Egyptian version of Alfheim (something you misquoted elsewhere as the "Alfheim version of Egypt") by "walking", which would be a separate realm.
Or they could be unreachable due to some weird spatial shenanigans such as non-euclidean geometry, like how the shape of the spacetime of the universe might send you back to where you began if you traveled long enough in one direction, or how Chaos in FGO has space warped around itself to prevent enemies from reaching it.
In short, there's several explanations for why realm travel is usually restricted to bifrost and realm tear usage that are much more reasonable than the RBR and Yggdrasil being 5D.
I could make a thread if it would be preferable to discussing it here.
Alright, I looked into the thread, and I get why parallelism would logically lead to the RBR being 5D. However, I realized that there is a problem that has not been addressed. I haven't seen any proof that the Norse GOW mythology has parallelism, ie. that no matter how far you travel in one direction spatially, you cannot reach another realm. While it is stated that the Realm Travel Room is the ONLY way for Kratos to travel between realms, this is contradicted by the fact that travel is possible through other means such as the gate that was destroyed when Kratos encountered Baldur again and this gate that Brok and Sindri built along with a couple other places. Restrictions to realm travel could also simply be due to Kratos and other beings in Norse GOW lacking the ability to fly universe-sized distances with sufficient travel speed.Planck69 said:
Also, even if it were the case that one could not travel between realms even WITH the ability to fly the gigantic distances necessary, this could be explained by the fact that the realms were sealed at the time instead of being parallel, a better explanation considering the fact that in the clip you linked to in one of the threads, Matt Sophos confirmed that you could indeed travel from Alfheim to the Egyptian version of Alfheim (something you misquoted elsewhere as the "Alfheim version of Egypt") by "walking", which would be a separate realm.
Or they could be unreachable due to some weird spatial shenanigans such as non-euclidean geometry, like how the shape of the spacetime of the universe might send you back to where you began if you traveled long enough in one direction, or how Chaos in FGO has space warped around itself to prevent enemies from reaching it.
In short, there's several explanations for why realm travel is usually restricted to bifrost and realm tear usage that are much more reasonable than the RBR and Yggdrasil being 5D.
I could make a thread if it would be preferable to discussing it here.
Planck69
We don't scale things via "it could be X" or any such assumptions. So unless you can actually bring out proof for "it could just be far/maybe it's sealed", this is meaningless fluff. Explanations need backing beyond "well, it's lower tier so it makes sense".
They are verbatim called parallel planes of existence and reflections of each other. Not one character has ever been capable of physically flying across realms and every single other method is via portals (the doors), Dimensional Travel (Bifrost) or magical means (Odin's ravens, Realm Tears etc.). So the burden of proof would be to show that they're spatially the same.
The sealing is irrelevant because that doesn't stop them from being parallel planes of reality, like what is that point?
I'm sorry but a lot of this stems from either a misunderstanding of standards or of the verse. Every single contention here was addressed as much as 5 years ago.
They are verbatim called parallel planes of existence and reflections of each other. Not one character has ever been capable of physically flying across realms and every single other method is via portals (the doors), Dimensional Travel (Bifrost) or magical means (Odin's ravens, Realm Tears etc.). So the burden of proof would be to show that they're spatially the same.
The sealing is irrelevant because that doesn't stop them from being parallel planes of reality, like what is that point?
I'm sorry but a lot of this stems from either a misunderstanding of standards or of the verse. Every single contention here was addressed as much as 5 years ago.
Planck69
A thread would be a meaningless endeavour seeing as nothing new was brought up so I'd suggest saving the effort. You're welcome to disagree but I'm really not going to get into a back-and-forth over arguments that have been seen since 2019 and debunked accordingly.
TyphonEX
Also, this assertion you're making that no character has ever physically flown across realms is extremely misleading. This clip confirms that physical travel between realms (In this case, between Alfheim and an Egyptian version of Alfheim) is possible, further hinting against your "parallelism" interpretation. Additionally, the point of your argument is to prove that my position does not fulfill the burden of proof, but counterintuitively, you make an assumption when you assume that Odin's ravens are using magical and NOT physical means to fly between realms. Using your own assumptions to help prove your point is circular reasoning.
What do you mean? It's literally just Occam's Razor. Explanations that are simpler/more parsimonious/make the least assumptions are the best explanations, and lower tier explanations are precisely that as long as they don't make a bunch more assumptions to justify the lower tier. This is due to the fact that assigning a higher tier is an assumption that the lower tier explanation doesn't make.Planck69 said:
But I suppose that, especially considering the fact that we're arguing on a message wall thread, it would be better to focus on one explanation, my most parsimonious explanation: the fact that the realms were sealed. There is actual proof that travel between realms is restricted by Odin sealing them. This is a sufficient explanation for why beings in God of War never fly between realms without using additional magical aid. All this talk about parallelism is unnecessary and is merely a bunch of assumptions that do not logically follow from God of War's lore. You criticized me for making "well, maybe this is true"-type claims, but this applies to you just as much if not more than it does to me. It is invalid to take your interpretation as true just because "well, MAYBE GOW has parallelism and is thus 5D." You have to show that your interpretation is preferable to mine.Planck69 said:
This is a fallacy of equivocation. You're fallaciously assuming that the meaning of the word "parallel" as used by the God of War franchise is the same as the meaning of "parallel" that you use. The word "parallel," especially in relation to worlds/planes/etc has many different meanings, many of which are entirely different from the meaning that you use.Planck69 said:
No, the burden of proof is on you to show that they're spatially different. The burden of proof has always been on you to justify your upgrade. On the other hand, the point of me messaging you is not to make a claim that all parts of Norse GOW cosmology are spatially the same, but to call into question whether or not you have fulfilled the burden of proof. Thus, the burden of proof does not fall on me. Characters being unable to physically fly across realms is not proof that these realms are separated by displacement along the 5th dimension, you need to either show more proof or make some sort of logical argument that somehow proves that characters being unable to physically fly across realms proves that the Nine Realms have parallelism.Planck69 said:
Also, this assertion you're making that no character has ever physically flown across realms is extremely misleading. This clip confirms that physical travel between realms (In this case, between Alfheim and an Egyptian version of Alfheim) is possible, further hinting against your "parallelism" interpretation. Additionally, the point of your argument is to prove that my position does not fulfill the burden of proof, but counterintuitively, you make an assumption when you assume that Odin's ravens are using magical and NOT physical means to fly between realms. Using your own assumptions to help prove your point is circular reasoning.
GilverTheProtoAngelo
Just make thread then, no point in writing essays here.
Planck69
That entire essay amounted to "I like this lower tier regardless of what the material says".
Like I said, you can disagree and rant about it but not a single complaint or argument here is new. Not one.
You can make a redundant thread I suppose but good luck with that.
Edit: Just to cap this off, cause I only just saw it
I did over the course of two threads, and over a dozen staff evaluations agreed with it. This inane trend of people assuming nobody noticed their very basic observations is baffling to me.
Like I said, you can disagree and rant about it but not a single complaint or argument here is new. Not one.
You can make a redundant thread I suppose but good luck with that.
Edit: Just to cap this off, cause I only just saw it
I did over the course of two threads, and over a dozen staff evaluations agreed with it. This inane trend of people assuming nobody noticed their very basic observations is baffling to me.
And we assume by default that an independent time axis extends infinitely on this site.
So, nothing new here has been brought up.
Edit: Your ocean/bubble analogy tells me you don't seek to understand why they're Low 1-C to begin with. Parallelism isn't the same as just being contained in a greater volume of the same dimensionality.