The Marvels [Spoilers] Upgrade

[Iamunanimousinthat]

What exactly are we waiting for here?

 

[Dalesean027]

What exactly are we waiting for here?

Ig more evaluation on the new version aside from DMUA's and mine

 

[ReturnofKhadz]

Just bump her up to low 4C already. And yeah I agree with the premise that she herself has never tried or felt she has exerted/outputted that much power before then. Besides, wasn’t the aura planet+++++ sized? It isn’t exactly combat-applicable. Other characters shouldn’t scale to this energy output, regardless of if they faced against her physically, unless there’s proof that her physical strength is = to this.

 

[Dalesean027]

Just bump her up to low 4C already. And yeah I agree with the premise that she herself has never tried or felt she has exerted/outputted that much power before then. Besides, wasn’t the aura planet+++++ sized? It isn’t exactly combat-applicable. Other characters shouldn’t scale to this energy output, regardless of if they faced against her physically, unless there’s proof that her physical strength is = to this.

I can see that you are clearly new to the site but this ain't how it works, please wait for thr CGMs requested in the blog to review the calculation and outside of that just what are you even talking about? It'd be quite the opposite in fact you'd have to prove she can't use her literal own power in combat when its never been stated or shown like that prior.

Burden of proof falls on you for making this silly claim

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Just bump her up to low 4C already. And yeah I agree with the premise that she herself has never tried or felt she has exerted/outputted that much power before then. Besides, wasn’t the aura planet+++++ sized? It isn’t exactly combat-applicable. Other characters shouldn’t scale to this energy output, regardless of if they faced against her physically, unless there’s proof that her physical strength is = to this.

The aura size is just a representation of the energy she is using at the moment so while you are right in saying that the size of her aura is an indicative she never used such power before, you are wrong saying it isnt combat applicable, she can use it anytime she wishes as long as she has such energy, and her physical strength is= to this since her strength is amped by her energy, the more energy she uses the stronger physically she gets, that's why she overpowered Thanos her aura increased because she was using more energy which allowed her to become strong enough to physically overpower Thanos.

 

[ReturnofKhadz]

I can see that you are clearly new to the site but this ain't how it works, please wait for thr CGMs requested in the blog to review the calculation and outside of that just what are you even talking about? It'd be quite the opposite in fact you'd have to prove she can't use her literal own power in combat when its never been stated or shown like that prior.

Burden of proof falls on you for making this silly claim

Please do explain to me how one would use a planet-sized aura in combat. I’d think the burden of proof goes to you to prove she can concentrate her MASSIVE aura down into a smaller size such that it is small enough to be used in combat wherein the very much human-sized enemy would feel the full power. Like, a planet-sized aura on a human-sized object wouldn’t result in the human-sized object being inflicted to planet/star or whatever level power.

The aura size is just a representation of the energy she is using at the moment so while you are right in saying that the size of her aura is an indicative she never used such power before, you are wrong saying it isnt combat applicable, she can use it anytime she wishes as long as she has such energy,

I don’t think so. More of the same above. I agree she can use it anytime in combat, but how exactly would it be useful, seeing as most enemies would be human-sized or a little bigger? They won’t be tanking the total amount of energy radiated from the planet+ sized aura, in their own size.

and her physical strength is= to this since her strength is amped by her energy, the more energy she uses the stronger physically she gets, that's why she overpowered Thanos her aura increased because she was using more energy which allowed her to become strong enough to physically overpower Thanos.

Ok? That just implies proportionality. Not that they’re exactly 1:1 equal. It’s silly to assume that the KE of her blows would be equal to the amount of raw energy she can radiate from her aura and energy projection. I agree that her energy aura being brighter/greater means her strength is increased/augmented, but I disagree that it is to the same degree. Zero proof to substantiate that she can punch with small star-busting power, just because her planet-sized aura could radiate this much heat-energy. I can’t even fathom how you could equate the two from a logical basis anyway. Physical blunt power and energy emitting power, etc.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Please do explain to me how one would use a planet-sized aura in combat. I’d think the burden of proof goes to you to prove she can concentrate her MASSIVE aura down into a smaller size such that it is small enough to be used in combat wherein the very much human-sized enemy would feel the full power. Like, a planet-sized aura on a human-sized object wouldn’t result in the human-sized object being inflicted to planet/star or whatever level power.

What burden of proof dude? Nothing stops her from going through an enemie the same way she went through the star, the planet level aura is her energy if she wants to make a photon blast with all that energy concentrated in a fist and destroy the enemy and a planet at that same time nothing would stop her, her whole deal is manipulating energy, the aura that she had around her body is a result of Carol releasing her energy that was inside her body and spreding it throughout her body, if she can keep it contained inside her body without leaking and then spread it out when she needs to, nothing stops her from doing it to a blast or even just to her fist.

I don’t think so. More of the same above. I agree she can use it anytime in combat, but how exactly would it be useful, seeing as most enemies would be human-sized or a little bigger? They won’t be tanking the total amount of energy radiated from the planet+ sized aura, in their own size.

So? Have you heard of AoE (Area of effect), let's see a character like the flash superfast but unable to breath in space dodge to an attack that destroys the entire planet with the opponent together.

Ok? That just implies proportionality. Not that they’re exactly 1:1 equal. It’s silly to assume that the KE of her blows would be equal to the amount of raw energy she can radiate from her aura and energy projection. I agree that her energy aura being brighter/greater means her strength is increased/augmented, but I disagree that it is to the same degree. Zero proof to substantiate that she can punch with small star-busting power, just because her planet-sized aura could radiate this much heat-energy. I can’t even fathom how you could equate the two from a logical basis anyway. Physical blunt power and energy emitting power, etc.

What does 1:1 even matter here? The calc of her aura energy is nowhere even near the amount of energy she used to go through the star or the energy she had to release to jumpstart the star. Her aura is just a representation of her power it doesnt need to be one on one her aura is not necessarily the size of a star if she is releasing the energy of a star. If something Aura is more likely the energy that leaks of her so it's a very small fraction of her actual energy. So again no one is saying she is planet because her aura is planet size.

 

[Lacku]

Quickly read through this thread and if we’re still considering how to go forward applying Low 4-C if the calc is correct I believe Post-Awakening characters should fully scale.

The rating is consistent with the Tesseract being a world-killer and both Hela and Odin being above it to an unknown degree.

We also have the statement from Rocket in Endgame where iirc he says the snap made by Thanos on Titan gave off cosmic energy never seen before, which would make it bare minimum more powerful than his 5-C Hadron Enforcer and the 5-A world wipe caused by the Power Stone that Rocket saw with his own eyes in GotG1. Thanos survived that and then even while severely injured withstood attacks from Captain Marvel so him being Low 4-C is pretty believable.

Additionally there’s more supporting evidence from L&T with Zeus being one of the strongest gods in the universe, putting him above 5-A Ammit and Ra who is meant to be stronger.

There's no anti-feats I can think of either that would go against the rating so I think the high tiers should fully scale.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I’m not for Zeus scaling based on pure statements. Especially when he seemed out of shape in the movie.

Zeus being the most powerful god can also be a lot of hot air considering how ridiculous LT made the gods look.

 

[Lacku]

I’m not for Zeus scaling based on pure statements. Especially when he seemed out of shape in the movie.

Zeus being the most powerful god can also be a lot of hot air considering how ridiculous LT made the gods look.

There’s nothing that suggests Zeus is weaker than he’s made out to be in the movie. Thor goes to Omnipotence City to gather the strongest gods and he names Ra along with Zeus. It can be presumed that since he didn’t name Khonshu or Ammit in the scene Ra is the strongest of the Egyptian Gods, making him superior to Ammits 5-A rating. Zeus is considered to be in the same tier as Ra by Thor so them being Low 4-B makes sense. Saying otherwise is just an assumption.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Quickly read through this thread and if we’re still considering how to go forward applying Low 4-C if the calc is correct I believe Post-Awakening characters should fully scale.

The rating is consistent with the Tesseract being a world-killer and both Hela and Odin being above it to an unknown degree.

From world killer to star level there is a big difference. Sincerely tesseract being weaker than Hela or Oden is ridiculous it's like saying they wouldnt be affected by the power of the stones which clearly isnt true, or the Dark Elfs plan to use the reality stone would be useless. It's more likely that Odin and Hela had no ideia how to use the tesseract.

We also have the statement from Rocket in Endgame where iirc he says the snap made by Thanos on Titan gave off cosmic energy never seen before, which would make it bare minimum more powerful than his 5-C Hadron Enforcer and the 5-A world wipe caused by the Power Stone that Rocket saw with his own eyes in GotG1. Thanos survived that and then even while severely injured withstood attacks from Captain Marvel so him being Low 4-C is pretty believable.

That "gave off cosmic energy never seen before" the screen says its 5 megatons nowhere even remotely close to 5-C much less 5-A, just because it's cosmic energy never seen before doesnt mean it's a big deal, different energy doesnt mean more powerful.

Additionally there’s more supporting evidence from L&T with Zeus being one of the strongest gods in the universe, putting him above 5-A Ammit and Ra who is meant to be stronger.

If Zeus was the strongest God he would be above Konshu's 4-A feat as an Egiption god supposedly should be bellow Ra. But assume that Zeus used a 4-A attack on Thor and got destroyed back despite Thor seeing them as stronger than even himself, and actually got disappointed by what he saw there, maybe Thor judged them as strong because of their past but that doesnt mean that in Love and Thunder they are as powerful as they were in the past.

 

[Lacku]

Literally every single one of these rebuttals is based on a misunderstanding of the source material.

From world killer to star level there is a big difference. Sincerely tesseract being weaker than Hela or Oden is ridiculous it's like saying they wouldnt be affected by the power of the stones which clearly isnt true, or the Dark Elfs plan to use the reality stone would be useless. It's more likely that Odin and Hela had no ideia how to use the tesseract.

The Reality Stone is already weaker than Hela and Odin at 6-B so I don't understand how it somehow invalidates them being stronger than the Tesseract. Iirc the Reality Stone back when it was the Aether was going to be used by the Dark Elves to cover the whole universe in darkness, I don't see why it would need to be stronger physically than Odin and Hela to do this since this is a hax feat. Additionally implying that Asgardians didn't know how to use the Tesseract is hilarious considering how it's used constantly by the likes of Loki to teleport around, used by Thor to bring Loki home to Asgard after Avengers 2012, and then used to repair the Bifrost Bridge. This is just blatant headcanon. Regardless, Hela and Odin being stronger than the Tesseract has already been accepted in a CRT and is currently used for the AP on their profiles.

That "gave off cosmic energy never seen before" the screen says its 5 megatons nowhere even remotely close to 5-C much less 5-A, just because it's cosmic energy never seen before doesnt mean it's a big deal, different energy doesnt mean more powerful.

The number was actually in the gigatons and still rising by the time the statistic was off-screen so we don't know for certain how high it went. We can only determine that it's the strongest power surge seen in the universe up to that point or at least by Rocket Raccoon, who saw a Celestial do a 5-A world wipe with his own eyes. It's also very important to detail that it's a power surge, meaning that it's destructive and not just "energy".

If Zeus was the strongest God he would be above Konshu's 4-A feat as an Egiption god supposedly should be bellow Ra. But assume that Zeus used a 4-A attack on Thor and got destroyed back despite Thor seeing them as stronger than even himself, and actually got disappointed by what he saw there, maybe Thor judged them as strong because of their past but that doesnt mean that in Love and Thunder they are as powerful as they were in the past.

Khonshu's 4-A feat is performed through Spatial Manipulation and doesn't apply to his physical AP so this point is irrelevant. Assuming that Thor was disappointed in the strength of the gods in Omnipotence City is also more headcanon as this is never alluded to in the actual movie. Additionally, Ra is never actually seen in L&T so assuming that he isn't as strong as he used to be just doesn't make sense when we've never even met him.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I agree with Lacku as well

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Literally every single one of these rebuttals is based on a misunderstanding of the source material.

The Reality Stone is already weaker than Hela and Odin at 6-B so I don't understand how it somehow invalidates them being stronger than the Tesseract. Iirc the Reality Stone back when it was the Aether was going to be used by the Dark Elves to cover the whole universe in darkness, I don't see why it would need to be stronger physically than Odin and Hela to do this since this is a hax feat. Additionally implying that Asgardians didn't know how to use the Tesseract is hilarious considering how it's used constantly by the likes of Loki to teleport around, used by Thor to bring Loki home to Asgard after Avengers 2012, and then used to repair the Bifrost Bridge. This is just blatant headcanon. Regardless, Hela and Odin being stronger than the Tesseract has already been accepted in a CRT and is currently used for the AP on their profiles.

The tesseract is also used as hax yet Hela is using it has scaling, there is nothing stopping someone from making a huge black hole with the tesseract that can easily surpass even tier 4.
Is it? Loki depended on Earth's knowledge to create the portal for the chitauri, Thor uses a device to teleport back to asgard, and it's unknown how he repaired the bifrost, and even if they know how to use it it doesnt mean they knew how to use it in the old days over a thousand years of the present of Asgard.

The number was actually in the gigatons and still rising by the time the statistic was off-screen so we don't know for certain how high it went. We can only determine that it's the strongest power surge seen in the universe up to that point or at least by Rocket Raccoon, who saw a Celestial do a 5-A world wipe with his own eyes. It's also very important to detail that it's a power surge, meaning that it's destructive and not just "energy".

Except that we saw the 5 gigantons not long after Rocket stated that it was the biggest power surge he ever saw, he was stating that based on what he saw on the screen we have no reason to believe Rocket somehow knew the limits of the power surge prior to what the screen shows.
Rocket stated that Earth was ground 0 for the power surge including showing that the power surge spreed to outer space if the power surge was destructive and as you say 5-A it would have obliterated the entire planet or close, another power surge happened when Thanos snapped again to destroy the stones again no damage seen despite almost killing Thanos and Rocket detecting it on Earth.

Khonshu's 4-A feat is performed through Spatial Manipulation and doesn't apply to his physical AP so this point is irrelevant. Assuming that Thor was disappointed in the strength of the gods in Omnipotence City is also more headcanon as this is never alluded to in the actual movie. Additionally, Ra is never actually seen in L&T so assuming that he isn't as strong as he used to be just doesn't make sense when we've never even met him.

Is it? Why is it the God of the moon can move stars but the god of the sun Ra cannot? That makes literally no sense. And being most powerful doesnt apply to only physical but also hax Thor lets it very clearly when he defeated Zeus despite Thor going there to ask his help because he was strong enough to deal with Gorr.

 

[Lacku]

The tesseract is also used as hax yet Hela is using it has scaling, there is nothing stopping someone from making a huge black hole with the tesseract that can easily surpass even tier 4..

I'm struggling to understand what you mean by this. You're talking about a hypothetical feat that the Tesseract has never performed. Additionally, the Tesseract can still have physical power along with being able to perform hax so I don't get what point you were trying to make about Hela using it for scaling. Yet again, Hela and Odin being above the Tesseract has already been accepted.

Is it? Loki depended on Earth's knowledge to create the portal for the chitauri, Thor uses a device to teleport back to asgard, and it's unknown how he repaired the bifrost, and even if they know how to use it it doesnt mean they knew how to use it in the old days over a thousand years of the present of Asgard.

It's an insane assumption to say that Odin as wise and knowledgeable on the Nine Realms and arcane magic as he is doesn't know how to use one of the most powerful items in his possession. Additionally, on MCU Hela's Marvel.com page, knowledge of mysticism is listed as one of her main abilities, with it saying word for word "Hela’s knowledge of Asgardian mysticism and occult relics made it easy for her to distinguish what artefacts were real and worthy within Odin’s vault." WoG says you're wrong about her not knowing the full capabilities of the Tesseract. I also believe her being stated as "Odin's strongest weapon" is another WoG statement but the image it comes from that's linked on her profile doesn't work anymore. Still, that would disprove your point again.

Except that we saw the 5 gigantons not long after Rocket stated that it was the biggest power surge he ever saw, he was stating that based on what he saw on the screen we have no reason to believe Rocket somehow knew the limits of the power surge prior to what the screen shows.
Rocket stated that Earth was ground 0 for the power surge including showing that the power surge spreed to outer space if the power surge was destructive and as you say 5-A it would have obliterated the entire planet or close, another power surge happened when Thanos snapped again to destroy the stones again no damage seen despite almost killing Thanos and Rocket detecting it on Earth.

Yet again, the number was still rising and we never saw it stop so 5 gigatons is still a massive lowball for the actual potency of the snap. Saying that Rocket doesn't know the full details of the power surge is also an assumption that has no basis in what we see in the movie. The same can be said for the other points made about the surge.

Is it? Why is it the God of the moon can move stars but the god of the sun Ra cannot? That makes literally no sense. And being most powerful doesnt apply to only physical but also hax Thor lets it very clearly when he defeated Zeus despite Thor going there to ask his help because he was strong enough to deal with Gorr.

I don't even know what to say for that last part.

 

[ThanatosX]

Except that we saw the 5 gigantons not long after Rocket stated that it was the biggest power surge he ever saw, he was stating that based on what he saw on the screen we have no reason to believe Rocket somehow knew the limits of the power surge prior to what the screen shows.

Yeah, just no. Are you actually saying that Rocket, someone with Extraordinary Genius intelligence, that instantly understood the flaw in the machine of the High Evolutionary despite him not noticing, that is able to create weapons able to destroy moons, that is able to build virtually anything and is possibly one of, if not the most intelligent characters in the MCU actually thought that 5 gigatons gave off cosmic energy levels "never seen before"? I thought that after GotG Vol 3 this argument could be put to rest since now we know for certain how intelligent Rocket is, and if he says something like this than he is a more than trustworthy source.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

This 5 gigaton stuff is giving me mosquito-level black hole flashbacks

I also believe her being stated as "Odin's strongest weapon" is another WoG statement but the image it comes from that's linked on her profile doesn't work anymore.

I can confirm this statement. It's from the Marvel Studios Visual Dictionary

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I'm struggling to understand what you mean by this. You're talking about a hypothetical feat that the Tesseract has never performed. Additionally, the Tesseract can still have physical power along with being able to perform hax so I don't get what point you were trying to make about Hela using it for scaling. Yet again, Hela and Odin being above the Tesseract has already been accepted.

The tesseract is stated to have infinite energy that is not just 5-A and Tesseract being capable of destroying a planet is a statement with no indication of how it would destroy a planet, transporting an entire planet to somewhere else could destroy it something Tesseract is likely to be capable of considering that the quantum bands can even transport part of the sun.

It's an insane assumption to say that Odin as wise and knowledgeable on the Nine Realms and arcane magic as he is doesn't know how to use one of the most powerful items in his possession. Additionally, on MCU Hela's Marvel.com page, knowledge of mysticism is listed as one of her main abilities, with it saying word for word "Hela’s knowledge of Asgardian mysticism and occult relics made it easy for her to distinguish what artefacts were real and worthy within Odin’s vault." WoG says you're wrong about her not knowing the full capabilities of the Tesseract. I also believe her being stated as "Odin's strongest weapon" is another WoG statement but the image it comes from that's linked on her profile doesn't work anymore. Still, that would disprove your point again.

And Zeus is also the wisest of all the gods stated by Thor and we know how it turned out. Considering that the wise Odin dropped the space stone on Earth the knowledgeable part of him seems to have dropped a few IQ points. It's funny considering that Hela could use the space stone to destroy asgard much more easily and forgot about that.

Yet again, the number was still rising and we never saw it stop so 5 gigatons is still a massive lowball for the actual potency of the snap. Saying that Rocket doesn't know the full details of the power surge is also an assumption that has no basis in what we see in the movie. The same can be said for the other points made about the surge.

If the power surge= the snap then the explosion would be universal care to scale Thanos to universal now? Sure because Rocket has an increadible power that allows him to calculate the power surge the moment it happened, he depends on the information he gets from the computers that measured it, the computers show 5 gigatons thats all he knows.
Again if the power surge was to scale in destruction at the very least all humans on wakanda would have been instantly killed that includes Captain America.
The screen very clearly shows the expansion of the power surge if you look at it and then you see it expanding to outer space

I don't even know what to say for that last part.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Yeah, just no. Are you actually saying that Rocket, someone with Extraordinary Genius intelligence, that instantly understood the flaw in the machine of the High Evolutionary despite him not noticing, that is able to create weapons able to destroy moons, that is able to build virtually anything and is possibly one of, if not the most intelligent characters in the MCU actually thought that 5 gigatons gave off cosmic energy levels "never seen before"? I thought that after GotG Vol 3 this argument could be put to rest since now we know for certain how intelligent Rocket is, and if he says something like this than he is a more than trustworthy source.

Lol he saw a celestial he actually was inside a celestial should we assume the power surge is the same tier as a celestial? And it's hard to believe Rocket never saw a star should we assume the power surge is more powerful the energy on a star? Heck he said that after he saw a Neutron star that is stronger than even our sun. If youwant to go that way better scale Everyone to celestial level or at least the full power of our sun

 

[Lacku]

snip

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I cry

 

[Lacku]

The tesseract is stated to have infinite energy that is not just 5-A and Tesseract being capable of destroying a planet is a statement with no indication of how it would destroy a planet, transporting an entire planet to somewhere else could destroy it something Tesseract is likely to be capable of considering that the quantum bands can even transport part of the sun.

Can you please make one point that isn't a series of assumptions? Being stated to be a "world killer" isn't that vague of a statement, obviously, it refers to raw power.

And Zeus is also the wisest of all the gods stated by Thor and we know how it turned out. Considering that the wise Odin dropped the space stone on Earth the knowledgeable part of him seems to have dropped a few IQ points. It's funny considering that Hela could use the space stone to destroy asgard much more easily and forgot about that.

What suggests that Odin is anything like Zeus at all when it comes to their knowledge of subjects? You're arguing against WoG here, it's pretty clear-cut Hela and Odin are stronger than the Tesseract. Also, Hela's plan was never to destroy Asgard, she wanted to rule the Nine Realms. More evidence you don't know what you're talking about.

If the power surge= the snap then the explosion would be universal care to scale Thanos to universal now? Sure because Rocket has an increadible power that allows him to calculate the power surge the moment it happened, he depends on the information he gets from the computers that measured it, the computers show 5 gigatons thats all he knows.
Again if the power surge was to scale in destruction at the very least all humans on wakanda would have been instantly killed that includes Captain America.
The screen very clearly shows the expansion of the power surge if you look at it and then you see it expanding to outer space

You're once again assuming everything here. We don't see how Rocket got all his data but we know that he's one of the greatest minds in the MCU and through that we can trust his statements since nothing suggests that he'd be wrong.

Lol he saw a celestial he actually was inside a celestial should we assume the power surge is the same tier as a celestial? And it's hard to believe Rocket never saw a star should we assume the power surge is more powerful the energy on a star? Heck he said that after he saw a Neutron star that is stronger than even our sun. If youwant to go that way better scale Everyone to celestial level or at least the full power of our sun

This is just complete nonsense and not even worth rebutting.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Can you please make one point that isn't a series of assumptions? Being stated to be a "world killer" isn't that vague of a statement, obviously, it refers to raw power.

Stated to have infinite energy is not an assumption, and where in world killer says it refer to raw power? If I teleport you to the sun am I not a killer?

What suggests that Odin is anything like Zeus at all when it comes to their knowledge of subjects? You're arguing against WoG here, it's pretty clear-cut Hela and Odin are stronger than the Tesseract. Also, Hela's plan was never to destroy Asgard, she wanted to rule the Nine Realms. More evidence you don't know what you're talking about.

Zeus is supposedly the wisest of the gods wiser than Odin by Thor's statement.
If stopped in place even an infinity stone does not have any destruction power.
No, her plan wasn't to destroy Asgard but It sure would have helped to be able to transport the entire Asgard around since it's the source of her power, and would have saved her if she transported Surtur out of Asgard

You're once again assuming everything here. We don't see how Rocket got all his data but we know that he's one of the greatest minds in the MCU and through that we can trust his statements since nothing suggests that he'd be wrong.

They literally state right there that they got the information from earth satellites.
Again if he isn't wrong better scale the power surge to the celestials since he saw one before he "measured" the power surge let's scale Thanos to 3-C or higher I don't remember what is the current scaling for celestials, even if not that then it would certainly scale to the neutron star he saw on nidavellir or the sun itself both likely much higher than 4-C

I don't know how to answer so I'm gonna say it doesn't need rebuttal

Sure

 

[Dalesean027]

With Lacku on this one man

 

[Lacku]

Stated to have infinite energy is not an assumption, and where in world killer says it refer to raw power? If I teleport you to the sun am I not a killer?

Literally on the Tesseracts profile its justification for 5-B is a statement of it having the "potential energy to wipe out Earth". That doesn't suggest teleportation to me. What's actually vague is that infinite energy statement, I don't have time to explain what a no-limits fallacy is but that statement is a prime example.

Zeus is supposedly the wisest of the gods wiser than Odin by Thor's statement.
If stopped in place even an infinity stone does not have any destruction power.
No, her plan wasn't to destroy Asgard but It sure would have helped to be able to transport the entire Asgard around since it's the source of her power, and would have saved her if she transported Surtur out of Asgard

The difference is Zeus is clearly a hack and Odin has consistently been wise, has cosmic awareness and knows what he's talking about. I don't even need to say any of this though since you very obviously dance around the fact that WoG has proven you wrong more than once and just choose not to acknowledge it.

They literally state right there that they got the information from earth satellites.
Again if he isn't wrong better scale the power surge to the celestials since he saw one before he "measured" the power surge let's scale Thanos to 3-C or higher I don't remember what is the current scaling for celestials, even if not that then it would certainly scale to the neutron star he saw on nidavellir or the sun itself both likely much higher than 4-C

The neutron star from IW was calculated to only be outputting 7-B levels of energy iirc so it wouldn't make the power surge 4-C. Additionally, the only 3-C Celestial is Arishem, who isn't the one in the clip. It wouldn't make sense to scale the surge to the strength of a normal Celestial anyways since it was the Power Stones 5-A world wipe that Rocket saw, so the power surge upscales that and not a Celestials 3-B AP since it would have no reason to.

Sure

Anyway, I'm done rebutting all these points since I think I made my own point a while ago.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

carol said she had no idea she could do something like renergize her core. So the feat was new territory for her. It makes no sense to back scale

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Literally on the Tesseracts profile its justification for 5-B is a statement of it having the "potential energy to wipe out Earth". That doesn't suggest teleportation to me. What's actually vague is that infinite energy statement, I don't have time to explain what a no-limits fallacy is but that statement is a prime example.

Who would have guessed a thing called infinity stone and stated to have infinite energy is not actually infinite.

The difference is Zeus is clearly a hack and Odin has consistently been wise, has cosmic awareness and knows what he's talking about. I don't even need to say any of this though since you very obviously dance around the fact that WoG has proven you wrong more than once and just choose not to acknowledge it.

Odin in the MCU does almost nothing but sleep he was asleep during the 2 movies of Thor and then died after being tricked by Loki, I call that lazy rather than wise.

The neutron star from IW was calculated to only be outputting 7-B levels of energy iirc so it wouldn't make the power surge 4-C. Additionally, the only 3-C Celestial is Arishem, who isn't the one in the clip. It wouldn't make sense to scale the surge to the strength of a normal Celestial anyways since it was the Power Stones 5-A world wipe that Rocket saw, so the power surge upscales that and not a Celestials 3-B AP since it would have no reason to.

The 7-B was the shot that Thor took not the full power of the star. Celestials use the same energy source, so if he saw that energy then it must be stronger than any form of energy he ever saw. Also Thor was in the room when Rocket said that and he saw Odin and still didnt said anything when Rocket said it was a power surge with a cosmic energy never seen before.

Anyway, I'm done rebutting all these points since I think I made my own point a while ago.

I think your point is ridiculously weak, you want to scale everyone to Captain Marvel because of a power surge with no destructive power.

 

[ThanatosX]

Lol he saw a celestial he actually was inside a celestial should we assume the power surge is the same tier as a celestial? And it's hard to believe Rocket never saw a star should we assume the power surge is more powerful the energy on a star? Heck he said that after he saw a Neutron star that is stronger than even our sun. If youwant to go that way better scale Everyone to celestial level or at least the full power of our sun

That's not even a counter-argument. On top of the argument already provided by Lacku, the 3-B rating for the Celestials come from two factors: their size and their galaxy-sized Sun creation. The Celestial in the Collector projection was barely mountain sized and the head of Nowhere is, if we really want to be generous, moon sized at the very best. Nothing that come close to galaxy sized, not even sun sized. And he never saw a Celestial creating a galaxy sized sun. So bringing them in the equation is just a whatabaoutistic argument.

carol said she had no idea she could do something like renergize her core. So the feat was new territory for her. It makes no sense to back scale

Her not being sure she can do it doesn't mean that she previously didn't have the capacità of doing it, otherwise we should assume that she got a power up after the final battle of the Marvels for some reason since she wasn't sure that the time if she could do it.
It's fine if for you it doesn't make sense to back scale. To me, it doesn't make sense to assume she just got stronger without any indication of that. Power ups needs an explanation in the story, if there is no such a thing than it can't be assumed that a character became stronger just because they perform a higher feat than before. And meta or "she just got stronger because the plot needed it" are not good arguments in the slightest since they are not story related, and neither is the assumption that she never used her full power without any statement of such a thing in the Sacred Timeline. Same goes with the aura arguments, which are just assumption based on no actual statement in the verse.
To me, all the arguments seems based on assumption made to justify a power up that have no justifications, and in which case the assumption of a power up should not made in the first place. But I already expressed my opinions, and so have both sides, so I will take the example of Lacku and stop discussing. It's best to wait what other staff members thinks.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

carol said she had no idea she could do something like renergize her core. So the feat was new territory for her.

I don’t think that Carol would’ve know the amount of energy she would’ve needed to do so tbh. I believe there’s a distinction between a character exerting to it’s highest and believing that their highest could or couldn’t do something. It might be both, but it can also be closer to one than the other. Or at least that’s what I think.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I also want to add that the scene was done after Carol lost Monica, who is like a neice/daughter figure to her. It also comes after great emotional growth. It would make sense for a character to reach new powerlevels after such character growth.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I also want to add that the scene was done after Carol lost Monica, who is like a neice/daughter figure to her. It also comes after great emotional growth. It would make sense for a character to reach new powerlevels after such character growth.

That's not good evidence at all. Having emotional growth doesn't mean becoming more powerful

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

That's not good evidence at all. Having emotional growth doesn't mean becoming more powerful

Both Thor and Dr. Strange have scenes where they grow stronger after emotional growth.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Both Thor and Dr. Strange have scenes where they grow stronger after emotional growth.

Thor got stronger because Odin made him understand his powers come from himself and not Mjolnir. Emotional growth isn't the reason he got stronger. It's unlocking his actual powers. Thor and many other characters had plenty of other kinds of emotional growth without getting stronger

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

made him understand his powers come from himself and not Mjolnir

That's emotional growth.

Thor and many other characters had plenty of other kinds of emotional growth without getting stronger

Emotional growth doesn't have to lead to increase in power or a tier for all characters every time.

But these are still true

Carol said she never did anything like that
Monica was the one who told her that she could
Carol did that after losing Monica

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

That's emotional growth.

Emotional growth isn't the reason he got stronger. It's unlocking his actual powers.

Emotional growth helped him realise it, but it wasn't the direct cause for Thor getting stronger

Carol said she never did anything like that
Monica was the one who told her that she could
Carol did that after losing Monica

Carol never needed to restart a sun before. Doesn't mean she wasn't capable of it.

I don’t think that Carol would’ve know the amount of energy she would’ve needed to do so tbh. I believe there’s a distinction between a character exerting to it’s highest and believing that their highest could or couldn’t do something.

Makes sense to me

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

WE JUST GOT A TRAILER FOR A BLADE GAME WTF

Wrong thread

 

[Dalesean027]

Wrong thread

Lmao I was wondering why I saw these arguments when I looked up the game thread

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

It's best to wait what other staff members thinks.

@LordGriffin1000 @Sir_Ovens @Propellus @GyroNutz @Emirp sumitpo @UchihaSlayer96 could you help give input here please? The CRT is getting nowhere and we're waiting for more staff input right now

 

[Propellus]

There seems to be a whole lot of discussion going around in here, and I don't really have the energy to dig through the arguments at the moment. So can I use a summary what's really being proposed here?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

There seems to be a whole lot of discussion going around in here, and I don't really have the energy to dig through the arguments at the moment. So can I use a summary what's really being proposed here?

It's mostly discussing who scales to Carol and who doesn't. Several users already brought up their arguments about Thanos and co. scaling to Captain Marvel

Quickly read through this thread and if we’re still considering how to go forward applying Low 4-C if the calc is correct I believe Post-Awakening characters should fully scale.

The rating is consistent with the Tesseract being a world-killer and both Hela and Odin being above it to an unknown degree.

We also have the statement from Rocket in Endgame where iirc he says the snap made by Thanos on Titan gave off cosmic energy never seen before, which would make it bare minimum more powerful than his 5-C Hadron Enforcer and the 5-A world wipe caused by the Power Stone that Rocket saw with his own eyes in GotG1. Thanos survived that and then even while severely injured withstood attacks from Captain Marvel so him being Low 4-C is pretty believable.

Additionally there’s more supporting evidence from L&T with Zeus being one of the strongest gods in the universe, putting him above 5-A Ammit and Ra who is meant to be stronger.

There's no anti-feats I can think of either that would go against the rating so I think the high tiers should fully scale.

Literally every single one of these rebuttals is based on a misunderstanding of the source material.

The Reality Stone is already weaker than Hela and Odin at 6-B so I don't understand how it somehow invalidates them being stronger than the Tesseract. Iirc the Reality Stone back when it was the Aether was going to be used by the Dark Elves to cover the whole universe in darkness, I don't see why it would need to be stronger physically than Odin and Hela to do this since this is a hax feat. Additionally implying that Asgardians didn't know how to use the Tesseract is hilarious considering how it's used constantly by the likes of Loki to teleport around, used by Thor to bring Loki home to Asgard after Avengers 2012, and then used to repair the Bifrost Bridge. This is just blatant headcanon. Regardless, Hela and Odin being stronger than the Tesseract has already been accepted in a CRT and is currently used for the AP on their profiles.

The number was actually in the gigatons and still rising by the time the statistic was off-screen so we don't know for certain how high it went. We can only determine that it's the strongest power surge seen in the universe up to that point or at least by Rocket Raccoon, who saw a Celestial do a 5-A world wipe with his own eyes. It's also very important to detail that it's a power surge, meaning that it's destructive and not just "energy".

Khonshu's 4-A feat is performed through Spatial Manipulation and doesn't apply to his physical AP so this point is irrelevant. Assuming that Thor was disappointed in the strength of the gods in Omnipotence City is also more headcanon as this is never alluded to in the actual movie. Additionally, Ra is never actually seen in L&T so assuming that he isn't as strong as he used to be just doesn't make sense when we've never even met him.

I'm struggling to understand what you mean by this. You're talking about a hypothetical feat that the Tesseract has never performed. Additionally, the Tesseract can still have physical power along with being able to perform hax so I don't get what point you were trying to make about Hela using it for scaling. Yet again, Hela and Odin being above the Tesseract has already been accepted.

It's an insane assumption to say that Odin as wise and knowledgeable on the Nine Realms and arcane magic as he is doesn't know how to use one of the most powerful items in his possession. Additionally, on MCU Hela's Marvel.com page, knowledge of mysticism is listed as one of her main abilities, with it saying word for word "Hela’s knowledge of Asgardian mysticism and occult relics made it easy for her to distinguish what artefacts were real and worthy within Odin’s vault." WoG says you're wrong about her not knowing the full capabilities of the Tesseract. I also believe her being stated as "Odin's strongest weapon" is another WoG statement but the image it comes from that's linked on her profile doesn't work anymore. Still, that would disprove your point again.

Yet again, the number was still rising and we never saw it stop so 5 gigatons is still a massive lowball for the actual potency of the snap. Saying that Rocket doesn't know the full details of the power surge is also an assumption that has no basis in what we see in the movie. The same can be said for the other points made about the surge.


I don't even know what to say for that last part.

Can you please make one point that isn't a series of assumptions? Being stated to be a "world killer" isn't that vague of a statement, obviously, it refers to raw power.

What suggests that Odin is anything like Zeus at all when it comes to their knowledge of subjects? You're arguing against WoG here, it's pretty clear-cut Hela and Odin are stronger than the Tesseract. Also, Hela's plan was never to destroy Asgard, she wanted to rule the Nine Realms. More evidence you don't know what you're talking about.

You're once again assuming everything here. We don't see how Rocket got all his data but we know that he's one of the greatest minds in the MCU and through that we can trust his statements since nothing suggests that he'd be wrong.

This is just complete nonsense and not even worth rebutting.

Literally on the Tesseracts profile its justification for 5-B is a statement of it having the "potential energy to wipe out Earth". That doesn't suggest teleportation to me. What's actually vague is that infinite energy statement, I don't have time to explain what a no-limits fallacy is but that statement is a prime example.

The difference is Zeus is clearly a hack and Odin has consistently been wise, has cosmic awareness and knows what he's talking about. I don't even need to say any of this though since you very obviously dance around the fact that WoG has proven you wrong more than once and just choose not to acknowledge it.

The neutron star from IW was calculated to only be outputting 7-B levels of energy iirc so it wouldn't make the power surge 4-C. Additionally, the only 3-C Celestial is Arishem, who isn't the one in the clip. It wouldn't make sense to scale the surge to the strength of a normal Celestial anyways since it was the Power Stones 5-A world wipe that Rocket saw, so the power surge upscales that and not a Celestials 3-B AP since it would have no reason to.

Anyway, I'm done rebutting all these points since I think I made my own point a while ago.

That's not even a counter-argument. On top of the argument already provided by Lacku, the 3-B rating for the Celestials come from two factors: their size and their galaxy-sized Sun creation. The Celestial in the Collector projection was barely mountain sized and the head of Nowhere is, if we really want to be generous, moon sized at the very best. Nothing that come close to galaxy sized, not even sun sized. And he never saw a Celestial creating a galaxy sized sun. So bringing them in the equation is just a whatabaoutistic argument.


Her not being sure she can do it doesn't mean that she previously didn't have the capacità of doing it, otherwise we should assume that she got a power up after the final battle of the Marvels for some reason since she wasn't sure that the time if she could do it.
It's fine if for you it doesn't make sense to back scale. To me, it doesn't make sense to assume she just got stronger without any indication of that. Power ups needs an explanation in the story, if there is no such a thing than it can't be assumed that a character became stronger just because they perform a higher feat than before. And meta or "she just got stronger because the plot needed it" are not good arguments in the slightest since they are not story related, and neither is the assumption that she never used her full power without any statement of such a thing in the Sacred Timeline. Same goes with the aura arguments, which are just assumption based on no actual statement in the verse.
To me, all the arguments seems based on assumption made to justify a power up that have no justifications, and in which case the assumption of a power up should not made in the first place. But I already expressed my opinions, and so have both sides, so I will take the example of Lacku and stop discussing. It's best to wait what other staff members thinks.

I don’t think that Carol would’ve know the amount of energy she would’ve needed to do so tbh. I believe there’s a distinction between a character exerting to it’s highest and believing that their highest could or couldn’t do something. It might be both, but it can also be closer to one than the other. Or at least that’s what I think.