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One Piece Top Tiers and God Tiers Revision
- Thread starter Damage3245
- Start date
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- #162
I think he's referring to this:
One Piece Top Tiers and God Tiers Revision
literally no evidence proving otherwise There's no need to prove otherwise. The proof is required from the side making the positive claim. Devil Fruit powers are tied to the user's own strength. This is shown several times, such as when Ace manages to burn Whitebeard after previously being...
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I DID
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Holy **** y'all need everything spelled out for you. You talk about how it is seperate from his physicals because apparently we need a statement for telekinesis basically scaling to A.P. Or how about how it doesn't fit the stabilization standards? This isn't a ******* stabilization feat. This is Potential Energy done through a special ability that apparently needs to be said to scale to physical a.p because "muh site standard". You use Haki which is sperate from DFs and actually nulls them getting stronger as evidence against scaling to A.P. Or that his drinking making him stronger and yet still the island is falling means that its a separate thing. However the flame clouds are shown feeding off Kaidou's stamina and not his a.p. We are not talking about the energy to keep it in the sky, at least I'm not. We are talking about generating the energy to move it forward, or to pull it up. You are being disingenuous and you know it damn well.
And if that still isn't enough here:
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"You use Haki which is sperate from DFs and actually nulls them getting stronger as evidence against scaling to A.P. Or that his drinking making him stronger and yet still the island is falling means that its a separate thing. However the flame clouds are shown feeding off Kaidou's stamina and not his a.p."
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- #168
Take away the Haki point and his drinking, and the point still remains that there is nothing connecting his Flame Clouds with the rest of his AP.
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What happened to aokiji's calculation? Also I find it strange that kaido took the bajrang gun without exploding while he's only country level. There were also cloud splitting calculations that were continent level, where did they go?
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That's it then. You just need it spelled out?
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- #171
I need more than assumptions.
There were issues with it so it was withdrawn. The cloud splitting thread didn't reach a conclusion.
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That's a really weak argument Damage.
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The only point you guys have is that its just an assumption. But your also making an assumption that seems a lot less reasonable.
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It's literally not unreasonable, it's adhering to our site standards. You're the one who cannot see that. I'm not really going to repeat myself ad nauseam with you. So, I'm just going to wait for other people to comment on this thread, since we're going in circles with you complaining and us explaining.
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I already debunked the majority of points.
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So you say moron so you say.
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Damage seemingly conceded, the haki and stamina stuff.
he didn't concede on the stamina stuff moron. The haki stuff maybe, but conceding the haki stuff doesn't serve as a defeater to the argument, it was one small point in a myriad of other points.
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- #180
No, the Haki stuff was just to point out that Kaido's AP continues to ramp up throughout the fight even as his stamina lessens.
The stamina stuff for the cloud lifting I haven't conceded on at all. The point being still that just because the clouds are sustained via his stamina/life-force or whatever, doesn't prove there is any link to his physical statistics.
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How does this work?
What is above an obvious fact?
I see the problem, it's not that you are being reasonable and using common sense, it's that you are being guided by directly false standards that go against reality.
Since you yourself have admitted that the fact that physical strength is related to stamina is something obvious, which needs no proof (an axiom)
But well there is nothing to do, the problem is not the feat, the problem is that the standards are wrong, so nothing to do here i guess.
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- #183
@DarkDragonMedeus has told me to add him to the Agree pile as he's currently busy with work.
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Can you post proof of that just so people don’t think there’s any dishonesty going around, I believe you ofc but it’s prolly best to cover the bases.
you can make a thread addressing the stability standards if you’d like
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- #185
Would be pretty stupid for me to fake that and get punished for it, but here you go:
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I have already proved this doesn't disprove anything.
Onigashima seems to have stabilized when Kaidou amps his DF as opposed to Drinking and haki which are seperate avenues.
Apparently an important scene, and scaling to casual H6B feats isn't enough.
They are never ever shown to be remotely below what his base form did. Oda did not portray Destroyer of Death Thunder Bagua as below his clouds.
You have nothing.
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No you haven’t, because Kaido’s haki not weakening is being used to argue Kaido himself isn’t getting weaker in terms of AP. As in bro is still punching at usual levels. It’s not saying that the cloud shit is connected to haki.
yeah we already know the flame clouds are connected to his DF.
Bro it doesn’t matter how casual or not the flame clouds are, they can be a casual LIFTING STRENGTH feat and still not scale to striking strength. Get that through your head.
You misunderstand that point. Consistent showings mean he needs to have consistent feats of his AP/striking strength being High 6-B. He is only consistently High 6-B with the clouds, bro has zero other feats of anything being High 6-B.
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I'm saying that Kaidou amping his physical AP and haki does not mean he is amping the clouds or his DF powers which is where the A.P comes from.
So him still being amped and the flame clouds not stabilizing makes sense. Because his haki buffing isn't connect at all to DF.
I'm talking about Whitebeard's feats
Because apparently holding back a High 6-A attack for a significant period of time, and scaling to a man who's getting angry resulted in a 6-B feat isn't enough to get into High 6-B(which is barely above 6-B)
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Why do u keep calling him a moron?
EDIT: I can’t believe I didn’t notice it. I’m a ******* moron myself huh
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Sabo didn't get hit by the Mother Flame damn
Also how the hell do you gain dwarf star durability from getting hit from a portion of a large planet attack what the hell
Also how the hell do you gain dwarf star durability from getting hit from a portion of a large planet attack what the hell
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Veronica is reading half a piece
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Planck piece.
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Now that I got back from work, I can confirm this.
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She’s literally the smartest person alive.
No one said he’s amping the clouds, read the stability standards and you’d understand better.
ok? Not relevant to what we’re talking about.
They’re like 10 teratons, that’s not consistent for 100s of teratons.I'm talking about Whitebeard's feats
Kaido scales to High 6-A with his flame susanoo
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What about Puncture Will and it hole's calc?
Im really sure found it somewhere in this site
We can take advantages from that, right?
Im really sure found it somewhere in this site
We can take advantages from that, right?
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Godernet
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i think that calc got axed.
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This constant back and forth is useless.
The pro side will continually say that Kaido should have relative AP to his the flame cloud's LS because it comes from his devil fruit and is considered to be a "baseline" ability for him, which means most, if not all abilities granted by said fruit should, at least, produce a relative level of energy to that ability. Especially more AP focused attacks rather than LS. We seemingly don't have any evidence of this being inherently the case however, as the arguments provided have been based on presumptions about how devil fruits internally scale. Not actual statements of fact. So it's just up to interpretation as to how you believe the devil fruits work in this case.
While the negative side will continually disagree with the assumptions made and will ask the pro side for further evidence and clarification, which will never be provided since the pro side aren't working on direct statements of fact, but rather presuppositions and interpretations of supplemental evidential points.
This will continue on until ad nauseam.
If we wish to address these concerns we have to delve into the fundamental assumptions made by both sides, and argue why our assumptions are supported more compared to the opposition. So the debate about Haki or if DF's are enhanced by the user getting stronger is not needed. Let's stick to this discussion because this will actually address the issue at hand, not delving into in-important topics like those stated above.
The pro side will continually say that Kaido should have relative AP to his the flame cloud's LS because it comes from his devil fruit and is considered to be a "baseline" ability for him, which means most, if not all abilities granted by said fruit should, at least, produce a relative level of energy to that ability. Especially more AP focused attacks rather than LS. We seemingly don't have any evidence of this being inherently the case however, as the arguments provided have been based on presumptions about how devil fruits internally scale. Not actual statements of fact. So it's just up to interpretation as to how you believe the devil fruits work in this case.
While the negative side will continually disagree with the assumptions made and will ask the pro side for further evidence and clarification, which will never be provided since the pro side aren't working on direct statements of fact, but rather presuppositions and interpretations of supplemental evidential points.
This will continue on until ad nauseam.
If we wish to address these concerns we have to delve into the fundamental assumptions made by both sides, and argue why our assumptions are supported more compared to the opposition. So the debate about Haki or if DF's are enhanced by the user getting stronger is not needed. Let's stick to this discussion because this will actually address the issue at hand, not delving into in-important topics like those stated above.
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