One Piece Top Tiers and God Tiers Revision

[Damage3245]

literally no evidence proving otherwise

There's no need to prove otherwise. The proof is required from the side making the positive claim.

Devil Fruit powers are tied to the user's own strength. This is shown several times, such as when Ace manages to burn Whitebeard after previously being unable to do so thanks to training. Another example is when in the first SBS oda stated that Luffy was training to increase the length he could stretch. Therefore Kaidou scales to his devil fruit's powers.

Nope. Not how it works.

Ace improving his Devil Fruit =/= Ace's punch is as strong as his strongest Devil Fruit attack.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Devil Fruit powers are tied to the user's own strength. This is shown several times, such as when Ace manages to burn Whitebeard after previously being unable to do so thanks to training. Another example is when in the first SBS oda stated that Luffy was training to increase the length he could stretch. Therefore Kaidou scales to his devil fruit's powers.

Lmao, so base Luffy scales to Gear 5 cuz it’s his Devil fruit power huh? Doffy’s physicals scale to his bird cage too then huh? There are instances in One Piece where characters use their Devil fruits to produce abilities or attacks beyond their normal physicals, you’re just wrong here. This isn’t a defeater either moron.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

There's no need to prove otherwise. The proof is required from the side making the positive claim.

how would these flames be magically different from his bolo breath?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Well one creates a mini nuke the other coats his body in a flame Susano’o. So they’re inherently different as they have different properties. Onus is on you to prove their the exact same and scale to each other

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Lmao, so base Luffy scales to Gear 5 cuz it’s his Devil fruit power huh? Doffy’s physicals scale to his bird cage too then huh? There are instances in One Piece where characters use their Devil fruits to produce abilities or attacks beyond their normal physicals, you’re just wrong here. This isn’t a defeater either moron.

He said tied. Not equal. and what the moron means is that your df powers grow with increases in power to your base.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

He said tied. Not equal. and what the moron means is that your df powers grow with increases in power to your base.

Cool that doesn’t make Kaido’s punches scale to his flame clouds.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Well one creates a mini nuke the other coats his body in a flame Susano’o. So they’re inherently different as they have different properties. Onus is on you to prove their the exact same and scale to each other

Nothing proves that they have different properties. Different applications do not mean different properties. If kaido emitted the flames from his body instead of his mouth that would be a case of them being different.

 

[Damage3245]

how would these flames be magically different from his bolo breath?

Well, Kaidou's Bolo Breath could be deflected easily by Gear 5 Luffy, and Kaidou's flame Susano'o clashed with Luffy's Bajrang Gun for a good while.

So yeah, I think they're different enough.

 

[MountainWine]

The Bajrang Gun calc should go. KE calcs overhaul feats well above what they should reasonably be. It should only be used as support for Luffy’s Lifting Strength. Otherwise we might as well say 57.5 km/s is too slow of a striking speed for Luffy. Then proceed to adjust the speed from 57.5 km/s to 5,750 km/s or 57,500 km/s (both speeds that Luffy can achieve) and get Moon to Small Planet level results.

 

[Damage3245]

The Bajrang Gun calc should go. KE calcs overhaul feats well above what they should reasonably be. It should only be used as support for Luffy’s Lifting Strength. Otherwise we might as well say 57.5 km/s is too slow of a striking speed for Luffy. Then proceed to adjust the speed from 57.5 km/s to 5,750 km/s or 57,500 km/s (both speeds that Luffy can achieve) and get Moon to Small Planet level results.

Do not derail this thread. I will tackle the Bajrang Gun separately, if it needs tackling.

 

[KingTempest]

The Bajrang Gun calc should go. KE calcs overhaul feats well above what they should reasonably be. It should only be used as support for Luffy’s Lifting Strength. Otherwise we might as well say 57.5 km/s is too slow of a striking speed for Luffy. Then proceed to adjust the speed from 57.5 km/s to 5,750 km/s or 57,500 km/s (both speeds that Luffy can achieve) and get Moon to Small Planet level results.

Just stop

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Nothing proves that they have different properties.

One is an explosion the other is fire armor. That’s objectively different. Also, as damage points out one scales directly above the other too, proving they aren’t inherently the same power.

 

[Stryker861]

The Bajrang Gun calc should go. KE calcs overhaul feats well above what they should reasonably be. It should only be used as support for Luffy’s Lifting Strength. Otherwise we might as well say 57.5 km/s is too slow of a striking speed for Luffy. Then proceed to adjust the speed from 57.5 km/s to 5,750 km/s or 57,500 km/s (both speeds that Luffy can achieve) and get Moon to Small Planet level results.

saw you arguing this in another thread. this is not the place

 

[MountainWine]

saw you arguing this in another thread. this is not the place

Not arguing for it. Just suggesting and giving reasons why. No one agrees, so be it.

 

[Deceived3596]

A set of abilities being increased in power through the user becoming generally more powerful wouldn't than cause the user to scale to its abilities, nor would it cause the abilities themselves to scale equally. An example of this would be the Rinnegan. Shinra Tensei doesn't scale to Chibaku Tensei despite both being gained through the same ability, and even created through the same sub-usage of that ability (Gravity Manipulation).

If we don't have evidence beyond speculation, then I don't see the reason as to why I should believe y'alls claim compared to Arc and Damage's.

 

[That_moron2]

Nope. Not how it works.

Ace improving his Devil Fruit =/= Ace's punch is as strong as his strongest Devil Fruit attack.

Lmao, so base Luffy scales to Gear 5 cuz it’s his Devil fruit power huh? Doffy’s physicals scale to his bird cage too then huh? There are instances in One Piece where characters use their Devil fruits to produce abilities or attacks beyond their normal physicals, you’re just wrong here. This isn’t a defeater either moron.

Please do not compare ultimate moves to the most basic technique of Kaidou's fruit.

 

[KingTempest]

Please do not compare ultimate moves to the most basic technique of Kaidou's fruit.

He ain't wrong yall know

 

[Damage3245]

Please do not compare ultimate moves to the most basic technique of Kaidou's fruit.

That's what we're saying to you...

 

[That_moron2]

That's what we're saying to you...

? Ace wasn't using his strongest technique against Whitebeard.

 

[Damage3245]

? Ace wasn't using his strongest technique against Whitebeard.

Then why are you talking about Kaidou's fruit?

 

[That_moron2]

Then why are you talking about Kaidou's fruit?

What are you even trying to say?

 

[Damage3245]

What are you even trying to say?

I don't understand your posts anymore.

What you said doesn't make any sense in response to Arc7's or my own posts.

 

[That_moron2]

I'm saying that basic DF based moves(i.e Flame Clouds) scale to the user's basic a.p,. As can be seen by Whitebeard vs Ace, and other examples which I will give if needed.

 

[KingTempest]

You guys are using examples of people not scaling to their canonical strongest techniques as a counter to Kaidou not scaling to one of the weakest abilities his fruit produces

 

[Kachon123]

Forgot to follow this earlier.

 

[Damage3245]

You guys are using examples of people not scaling to their canonical strongest techniques as a counter to Kaidou not scaling to one of the weakest abilities his fruit produces

I see.

The people not scaling to their strongest techniques point was more of an argument against scaling Kaidou's flame Susano'o back to his Bolo Breath.

That Moron's point about DF users scaling to their DF is just unsubstantiated. His Ace example doesn't prove it.

 

[That_moron2]

The people not scaling to their strongest techniques point was more of an argument against scaling Kaidou's flame Susano'o back to his Bolo Breath.

Cool that's not what I was talking about.

 

[Deceived3596]

I'm just going to cut straight to the heart of this issue and ask what's the evidence which supports Kaido physically scaling to the clouds?

 

[That_moron2]

I'm just going to cut straight to the heart of this issue and ask what's the evidence which supports Kaido physically scaling to the clouds?

The fact that its litteraly the most basic ability of his fruit that should offensively be inferior to Boro Breath which Momo struggled with after Flame Clouds, and Luffy scales to that.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Flame clouds aren’t hyped to be his ultimate technique =/= flame clouds scale to his physicals moron, KT. There are plenty of instances of characters with techniques that aren’t their strongest technique but still stronger than their physicals.

 

[Damage3245]

The fact that its litteraly the most basic ability of his fruit that should offensively be inferior to Boro Breath which Momo struggled with after Flame Clouds, and Luffy scales to that.

That's not evidence, moron.

That's an assumption.

 

[Deceived3596]

The fact that its litteraly the most basic ability of his fruit that should offensively be inferior to Boro Breath which Momo struggled with after Flame Clouds, and Luffy scales to that.

Is this everything? Just asking since I don't know, so I want to have all the evidence on hand before commenting further.

 

[Damage3245]

The fact that its litteraly the most basic ability of his fruit that should offensively be inferior to Boro Breath which Momo struggled with after Flame Clouds, and Luffy scales to that.

I'm sorry, who told you that the calculated value of the Flame Clouds must be inferior to the AP value of the Boro Breath?

 

[Deceived3596]

physicals moron

That's not evidence, moron.

Both of you are abusing this loophole

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No we’re not, deceived

 

[Nierre]

They're just being respectful and calling his name

 

[KingTempest]

Flame clouds aren’t hyped to be his ultimate technique =/= flame clouds scale to his physicals moron, KT.

I ain't defending 1 side, I'm explaining That_moron's (I refuse to address this man as only Moron like you goobers do) argument since he can't articulate it as good as needed

There are plenty of instances of characters with techniques that aren’t their strongest technique but still stronger than their physicals.

In That_moron's defense, this ain't even an attacking move, it's deadass a move that Kaidou just uses to get around
Moves more focused on attacking with similar concepts (flames) should be superior to the likes of just passive techniques

 

[Deceived3596]

Moves more focused on attacking with similar concepts (flames) should be superior to the likes of just passive techniques

Presupposition

 

[Kachon123]

Presupposition

 

[Deceived3596]

I will never let KT live down that moment in VC.