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One Piece Top Tiers and God Tiers Revision

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Arc7Kuroi said:
Flame clouds aren’t hyped to be his ultimate technique =/= flame clouds scale to his physicals moron, KT. There are plenty of instances of characters with techniques that aren’t their strongest technique but still stronger than their physicals.
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An 8 year old did it
 
Neutral on flame cloud stuff.

I will say that the flame clouds only weaken when Kaido weakens so they're tied to his power level in some way, at the very least.
 
RIP High 6-A, and High 6-B its gone too, even if i still think that it should scale.

So back to square one with 6-B which will scale to just Admirals and Yonkou.
 
Stefano4444 said:
RIP High 6-A, and High 6-B its gone too, so back to square one with 6-B which will scale to just Admirals and Yonkos.
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Yeah, because the cloud split calc issue, despite density no longer being an issue, was never resolved since no one agreed on how to do the split calc itself.
 
Eseseso said:
Neutral on flame cloud stuff.

I will say that the flame clouds only weaken when Kaido weakens so they're tied to his power level in some way, at the very least.
Click to expand...

Yes, we go over that in the OP.
 
KingTempest said:
In That_moron's defense, this ain't even an attacking move, it's deadass a move that Kaidou just uses to get around
Moves more focused on attacking with similar concepts (flames) should be superior to the likes of just passive techniques
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Not without due reason, there’s currently no reason to presuppose his attacks have superior AP to the energy produced from his flame clouds. Going by our site standards the opposite is true, there’s due reason to assume the flame clouds don’t even scale to his attacks. Unless you can substantiate that claim it’s merely a baseless assumption.
 
Flame Clouds isn't even an inherently offensive technique, Kaidou uses it to make himself and other things float, so I still don't agree with other techniques like Boro Breath scaling above Flame Clouds.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Cool, how does that prove those clouds scale relative with one's physicals or separate attacks.
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The fact that if they were above his physicals or other attacking moves he'd be using them. Flame Clouds are for movement. Yamato says as much. Boro Breath is for attacking. Kaidou also implies his Haki is stronger than his DF against Luffy.
 
That_moron said:
The fact that if they were above his physicals or other attacking moves he'd be using them. Flame Clouds are for movement. Yamato says as much. Boro Breath is for attacking. Kaidou also implies his Haki is stronger than his DF against Luffy.
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They aren’t attacks… so why would he use them? They’re solely for lifting
 
For all those who wish we didn't have to rely on 6-B WB calcs...

Blame the people who never resolved the cloud split calcing issues despite seemingly agreeing on allowing normal cloud densities.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
They aren’t attacks… so why would he use them? They’re solely for lifting
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Throwing shit. Kaidou himself is fueling the clouds. I don't see how it doesn't scale to his a.p.
Therefir said:
Flame Clouds isn't even an inherently offensive technique, Kaidou uses it to make himself and other things float, so I still don't agree with other techniques like Boro Breath scaling above Flame Clouds.
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Do you hear yourself? The energy produced by a non offensive move is superior to offensive moves.
I'll reiterate that Kaidou heavily implies that his haki based techniques like Thunder Bagua are superior to his Devil Fruit. On top of this several DFs should have more power in them than Kaidou's fruit. Like Akainu's for instance.
 
That_moron said:
Throwing shit. Kaidou himself is fueling the clouds. I don't see how it doesn't scale to his a.p.
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It’s explained in the OP, merely sustaining something doesn’t make your physicals scale inherently regardless of if you can see it or not
 
If he has an ability that is reserved solely for lifting things, then I don’t understand why it would scale to his physicals even if it’s meant to be “basic and easy” for him to produce? They serve a function that isn’t attack based, they shouldn’t really scale to anything he does that IS attack based unless there’s a sufficient reason beyond “well they’re not attacks so his actual attacks should be stronger.”

The context of the Flame Clouds implies to me that nothing scales to them because their function of just lifting stuff is completely different from all of Kaido’s other abilities. Like, if they were that much stronger and his physicals scaled, wouldn’t that mean he should be able to lift anything they can? If he “fuels them,” then shouldn’t anything they can do he can do? If it’s a 1:1 power exchange, would that not be the case?
 
Eseseso said:
You're right, I apologize.

On the subject of scaling, will Scabbard tiers just be Baseline 6-B (7 teratons)? How do you plan on scaling them?
Click to expand...

Since I'm assuming we don't do the "divide them by 4" thing, then baseline 6-B is probably what they'll be.
 
Damage3245 said:
Since I'm assuming we don't do the "divide them by 4" thing, then baseline 6-B is probably what they'll be.
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I personally wouldn't mind the 1/4 scaling, but yes there is some...opposition to that.

Baseline 6-B isn't terrible since the 12.64 teraton feat was done casually by Primebeard just from getting pissed.
 
Therefir said:
Flame Clouds isn't even an inherently offensive technique, Kaidou uses it to make himself and other things float, so I still don't agree with other techniques like Boro Breath scaling above Flame Clouds.
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Kaidou's haki is stronger than his DF.
 
Damage3245 said:
That scan does not say that Kaidou's Haki > all the capabilities of his Devil Fruit.
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It doesn't have to. The flame clouds are basic techniques that shouldn't be able to generate more energy than Boro Breath.
For example Momo having already mastered flame clouds struggled with Boro Breath. This shows its a more complex technique than the very basic Boro Breath, i.e its a simple technique that Haki outscales.
 
That_moron said:
It doesn't have to. The flame clouds are basic techniques that shouldn't be able to generate more energy than Boro Breath.
For example Momo having already mastered flame clouds struggled with Boro Breath. This shows its a more complex technique than the very basic Boro Breath, i.e its a simple technique that Haki outscales.
Click to expand...
That doesn't prove anything when it comes to potency.
 
Moron stop making baseless claims. You’re presupposing that the clouds have to be some hyper casual weak technique, when they don’t have to be weak at all. Start backing up your claims or stop talking.
 
Damage3245 said:
That doesn't prove anything when it comes to potency.
Click to expand...
Damage devil fruits are powered by the user. Some techniques amp, I have no reason to believe that a basic technique like Flame Cloud is one of them. Especially since they are shown to be easier to use than offensive moves.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Moron stop making baseless claims. You’re presupposing that the clouds have to be some hyper casual weak technique, when they don’t have to be weak at all. Start backing up your claims or stop talking.
Click to expand...
The clouds are shown to be easier to master than Boro Breath. Techniques that amp such as Gears are harder to use. Basic moves scale to user's a.p.
 
That_moron said:
The clouds are shown to be easier to master than Boro Breath. Techniques that amp such as Gears are harder to use. Basic moves scale to user's a.p.
Click to expand...
1) ease of use of a technique doesn’t mean anything
2) Kaido ***** out Boro breaths casually anyhow so your point falls apart

How about rather than reaching with unsubstantiated claims you address the evidence backed claims in the OP that adhere to site standards 🗿
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
1) ease of use of a technique doesn’t mean anything
2) Kaido ***** out Boro breaths casually anyhow so your point falls apart

How about rather than reaching with unsubstantiated claims you address the evidence backed claims in the OP that adhere to site standards 🗿
Click to expand...
We have no reason to believe that a 10ish times amp is applicable to Flame Clouds which isn't even an offensive technique.
 
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