THE END OF ALL FIRE FORCE TIER 2 THREADS!!!

[KLOL506]

OMG even Deceived thinks this is whack

 

[Alexander]

Shinra also didn’t “disintegrate” when he viewed the past in Adolla. That only happens in the real world but Adolla is a world of perception.

When he viewed the pre-cataclysm past inside Adolla, only his mind was gone as that was what was linked to Adolla in the first place. His body remained in the real world and was straight up taken over by his doppelgänger from Adolla.

So idk what this “disintegration” is in regards to Shinra viewing the past from Adolla.

wait, that I remember before the trip, there is like a"portal''

 

[Hasty12345]

Surely this can just be closed at this point?

 

[KLOL506]

Surely this can just be closed at this point?

Unfortunately, no, once a thread has been made, 2 days bare minimum must be given for all the relevant staff to see. Don't worry. Won't have to wait 2 days more after overwhelming approval or rejection. If there is enough overwhelming rejection/approval within 2 days, the thread can be closed after (And applied if accepted, or rejected if there are more disagreements than agreements).

 

[Iiliminal]

upgrade shinra to At least low 1-C, likely 1-A fra

 

[Dalesean027]

Lets not derail too much

 

[Maitreya12]

Lets not derail too much

Yeah I think all the points were made clear by now and not a single person has agreed with OP’s proposal. Right now we just wait on their response and after grace period is over see if this thread can be closed if nothing much has changed.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Anyway, the staff thread was cause of derailment which has started already.

Surely this can just be closed at this point?

And why will that be?
Also no one here has really addressed the OP just like I expected.
You need to say why you say the are not disconnected even though they obviously are

Not really.
DT clearly said in this revision and even in the other I linked in that thread that worlds can be spatiotemporaly separated even tho if they linked at some point in time and space. For examole, DT said MWI is tier 2B despite saying that branched timelines are linked at some point or in the past, they just have to be seprated in future. Also, rather than structure, how those timelines are being nuked matter most.

And again this is a single timeline, they share the same future and past.
As you can see by the entire traveling of a thing.
Also read the FAQ page you know that was just updated by DT.

Second, is the case of timelines that at certain points are connected. Contrary to the case where one can always travel from one universe to the other via three-dimensional movement, it is only possible in those at certain times. In fact, at certain points in time they might be the same universe. E.g. if a timeline branches into two, then the timelines were the same universe before the branch split happened. Other way around, if two timelines get merged into one, then they are the same universe only after they were fused.
In those cases, the destruction of any one timeline is only counted if it was not connected to any other timeline for an infinite amount of time. Other way around, if there are several timelines none of which were separate for an infinite amount of time, they would all be counted as just one timeline for the purpose of Tiering their destruction or creation

I mean you were part of the thread, anyway unless they are separate for infinite time, they are still a single structure which would defeat the entire tier 2 again.
Which means even if they were separated they got joined together again after 250 years and not infinite.
So this thread is only wrong if the FAQ is wrong.
So next time quote stuffs properly

1) Adolla a separate world is completely disconnected from the real world. Totally and completely, it’s verbatim stated it’s another plane entirely. Hence why the merging of the two worlds causes space to tear between them in the first place. And hence why it’s referred to as a higher plane in the first place.

Again none of this address the fact that they are spatial-temporally separate.
The first scan says evangelist is not of this world, and that is obvious
The other shows that there is a tear in space that separates adolla and the world, again none of that defeats my point.
It been of higher plane also does not defeat my point

2) The past of mankind pre-cataclysm is different than the present mankind post cataclysm. This is because Adolla doesn’t just carry and embody “despair” in of itself, but the very despair of the history of mankind as well. The despair carries history in of itself as Adolla embodies all concepts and perception within it. That’s why Shinra had to go into Adolla to see the past pre-cataclysm in the first place. He even experienced different time flows as 3 months had passed while his mind was in Adolla and a doppelgänger from Adolla had taken over his body. This very image and history of mankind’s past despair is merging with the present world.

In short, Adolla is a higher plane completely spatially disconnected from the real world that experiences it’s own time flow with its own history of the concepts of mankind pre-cataclysm

Sorry to break it to you but having your own timeflow does not mean that you are a separate space time

Note: Time flowing differently (faster or slower) in different universes is not enough proof that they are separate space-time continuums, for even in a single universe, we can have different flow of time.

But that aside even though the timeflow point does not flow
time flow in adolla is not really different, if it was all, the times anyone adolla linked or stayed in adolla and had discussions inside adolla, months should have passed outside, all we know is that shinra said he was running mad and then it went blank and when he came to on earth it's been months.

. It’s even noted that the concepts of the people of the past mixes with the present world, signifying a clear distinction between them. An Adolla’s merging of the past’s history of despair and the present world causes the cataclysm to occur.

If shinra can travel to the earth past by going back in time inside the adolla world, that means they are spatial-temporally connected,
You need to say why shinra is not traveling to the past of earth but another past entirely.

Anyways since knowledgeable staff members such as Planck and Maverick and Ultima and Clover and even I believe Mitch as well were the ones who proposed and agreed upon 2-C scaling, I differ to their opinions on the matter as this thread was made literally 2 days after the other one was accepted.

Appeal to authority and you call call Ultima here or DT, since I think they are the most knowledgeable on tier 2

pain, this is already too exaggerated, I mean I understand that you might not like that fire force is high (only two characters) but seriously, why be dishonest to try to downgrade the verse? It's almost the same as the fire force arguments being only planet level, except that those were from people who didn't read the manga very well, you are directly downgrading something for the sake of downgrading.
now makes sense why damage say that vsbw ignore context,because is real,this includes you

You talk too much, this is derailing and bold of you to talk about dishonest.

Infact, you just showed that there is a past within Adolla. Shinra went back in time within Adolla.

And ended up on earth so I am sure it means they are connected.
If the past within adolla is the same as earth past, it means they are connected.

But for some reason you left out the fact that time moved differently outside of it. Three good months had passed in the real world while only moments had passed in Adolla where Shinra was in

Time flowing differently means jack, check above.

. Why did you not address this fact in the last thread?

It never came up

This is just straight up wrong.

Shinra was only reminiscing the fact that he had been doing the impossible through the series such as literally turning to particle.

Nowhere does it say that Shinra had to go to the past to enter Adolla.

What happens when shinra disintegrates?


Anyway can someone actually bring prove that says when shinra travels back in time, he does not end up on earth 250 years ago, but rather another earth entirely that is not the earth we know.
All the "adolla is not of this world", "adolla is a higher plane" e.t.c. all is true and can be true and still does not change the fact that they are connected.
Again you need to

bring prove that says when shinra travels back in time, he does not end up on earth 250 years ago, but rather another earth entirely that is not the earth we know.

If the past within adolla is the same as earth past, it means they are connected.
So @Planck69 I will say you should please read my arguments and say why they are wrong, and stop trying to dismiss me, tell me why two spaces that clearly share the same space and time can be spatiotemporal separate give examples, it's very simple.
That said you can tag DT, everything and kingpin here. Or any staff can help with that @KLOL506 or @Dalesean027
I will message their wall also.

 

[PrinceofPein]

So since I cannot obviously keep responding to 5-10 people at a time, I will respond to the knowledgeable members addressing my posts only

 

[KLOL506]

I am merely keeping watch over this thread so that it does not spiral out of control.

Also, Ant has advised us not to tag DontTalkDT or Ultima over threads like these anymore, that they are simply too busy and tired to respond to multiple threads at once.

 

[KLOL506]

Also Pain, stop with the namecalling and throwing of insults and calling people dishonest. Either calmly address the arguments or chill out and then come back when you feel fully ready to tackle them.

 

[Planck69]

And why will that be?
Also no one here has really addressed the OP just like I expected.
You need to say why you say the are not disconnected even though they obviously are

Regardless of how this thread goes, I'll say this generally; Answer you don't like =/= Arguments not addressed.

Appeal to authority and you call call Ultima here or DT, since I think they are the most knowledgeable on tier 2

This is very ironic.

So @Planck69 I will say you should please read my arguments and say why they are wrong, and stop trying to dismiss me, tell me why two spaces that clearly share the same space and time can be spatiotemporal separate give examples, it's very simple.
That said you can tag DT, everything and kingpin here. Or any staff can help with that @KLOL506 or @Dalesean027
I will message their wall also.

It's as simple as the fact that based on what Maitreya and the others posted, as well as Executor's clarifying, I see more to believe they are separate than otherwise. You asserting otherwise doesn't make things automatically true.

@KingPin0422 If you wish to participate here, I welcome you.

Not tagging Ultima and DT as they apparently don't want to be bothered here. If you know any other staff then you can tell me or message them.

 

[Cyberblader90]

ngl pain, you could have waited till Maitreya finished making the cosmology blog

 

[Reiner04]

Is this the feat that has been upgraded to tier 2??????

 

[Tomboy11]

Bro thought we was finna agree

Bro thought we was finna agree

Let him cook the egusi soup fit sweet

 

[PrinceofPein]

Also Pain, stop with the namecalling and throwing of insults and calling people dishonest. Either calmly address the arguments or chill out and then come back when you feel fully ready to tackle them.

Calling smeone who said I am dishonest also dishonest is not name calling
You should tell them.to stop or rather I did not see you telling them to stop with the name calling, the mock or the insults so far since the OP

Regardless of how this thread goes, I'll say this generally; Answer you don't like =/= Arguments not addressed.

It is actually not
There were two points from matreya
Adolla was said not be of this world and adolla was said to be a higher plane, none of that means that they are spatial-temporally separate if they share the same past

This is very ironic.

It's not, I said call them not otherwise

It's as simple as the fact that based on what Maitreya and the others posted, as well as Executor's clarifying, I see more to believe they are separate than otherwise. You asserting otherwise doesn't make things automatically true.

Executor post does not address my arguments and I don't even know the context, you can call them here tho cause sharing the same time axis would mean not sharing the same time, and he would be right, but if he meant sharing the same time then I will have to disagree with the post.
Also check the FAQ page that was just updated
Unless you want to change that or say it is wrong I have nothing to ask but
You see more to believe based on what standard?

@KingPin0422 If you wish to participate here, I welcome you.

Not tagging Ultima and DT as they apparently don't want to be bothered here. If you know any other staff then you can tell me or message them.

Everything12 should not mind or theglassman

Is this the feat that has been upgraded to tier 2??????

Yes more context but basically this

ngl pain, you could have waited till Maitreya finished making the cosmology blog

And why should I do that?
It does not stop one another

 

[Reiner04]

Is this the feat that has been upgraded to tier 2??????

This thread is just to prove that adolla and the real world are not spatio-temporally separate at all.

The adolla world is collective unconscious of physical world, forget about being spatiotemporaly seprated as that would be least it can be. The adolla world is non physical plane which takes shape into physical reality of this world. That was the reason seems to be that why very physics of the universe was altered.

Shinra took an attack for Juggernaught which knocked him out and

Him going unconscious was what merged him through adolla world, that's why it's a world of unconscious.

So shinra time travelled when in the Adolla plane and ended up on earth from 250 years ago, which would not be possible if adolla and earth are in or different spacetimes, since you can obviously travel through their time and both is connected.

Both are obviously connected through unconscious physic of the being. That is unchangeable but that doesn't disprove that they're separate.

 

[Cyberblader90]

you should wait for maitreya to make one because they said would make one soon. Its kinda rude to make this ahead of time

 

[KLOL506]

Calling smeone who said I am dishonest also dishonest is not name calling
You should tell them.to stop or rather I did not see you telling them to stop with the name calling, the mock or the insults so far since the OP

I had unwatched the thread and came back a while after the comments were made.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Time flowing differently means jack, check above.
It never came up
What happens when shinra disintegrates?

yknow you don’t have to tag me if you’re going to give me stupid replies like these.

You clearly haven’t addressed anything I sent, especially that last point where you asked me a completely unrelated question.

 

[Planck69]

@Theglassman12 @Everything12

You've been summoned.

 

[Halkum145]

Disagree

 

[KLOL506]

Everyone, please calm down. There's no need to take this to extremes.

 

[PrinceofPein]

The adolla world is collective unconscious of physical world, forget about being spatiotemporaly seprated as that would be least it can be. The adolla world is non physical plane which takes shape into physical reality of this world. That was the reason seems to be that why very physics of the universe was altered.

yes correct

Him going unconscious was what merged him through adolla world, that's why it's a world of unconscious.

yes, but it is a world you can go to physically, so let me say it also physically exists

Both are obviously connected through unconscious physic of the being. That is unchangeable but that doesn't disprove that they're separate.

The entire psychic thing was never my point, my point was the time are connected since you know you can time travel and end up in one or the other

I had unwatched the thread and came back a while after the comments were made.

its fine, I am sorry for accusing you then

yknow you don’t have to tag me if you’re going to give me stupid replies like these.

sigh

You clearly haven’t addressed anything I sent, especially that last point where you asked me a completely unrelated question.

Neither did you address anything I sent you know

@Theglassman12 @Everything12

You've been summoned.

Thank you

you should wait for maitreya to make one because they said would make one soon. Its kinda rude to make this ahead of time

it is not really rude if i never agreed to it or went back on my word. what will be rude is everyone agreeing to fix the FF pages and create pages for new characters who do not have pages before making any upgrade thread and someone making that thread. but what do I know

 

[Alexander]

You talk too much, this is derailing and bold of you to talk about dishonest.

what ever

 

[KLOL506]

Disagree

You're gonna have to do better than that, soldier.

 

[Halkum145]

You're gonna have to do better than that, soldier.

There's no need to answer. The previous crt uses completely refuting arguments.

 

[Halkum145]

I will reply when I have free time (you can count as neutral for now if answering is mandatory)

 

[PrinceofPein]

I will reply when I have free time (you can count as neutral for now if answering is mandatory)

Eh you can just say "disagree FRA"
Anyway the arguments are still going on i guess, so you can wait also

 

[Halkum145]

Eh you can just say "disagree FRA"
Anyway the arguments are still going on i guess, so you can wait also

Consider me neutral for now. You can put it in the disagree section when I give my answer.

 

[Shmooply]

OMG even Deceived thinks this is whack

A bureaucrat disagreed with the thread, lock it up janitors.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Okay but fr, I disagree for Maitreya's reasoning and all of the last thread, get this goofy ah thread outta here

 

[Ikelaggan]

yes correct

You agreed it's a non-physical plane.

yes, but it is a world you can go to physically, so let me say it also physically exists

But you also leaped into assumptional bounds of "I can enter this non-physical realm thus it must be actually physical a physical realm" type logic.

 

[DaReaperMan]

IMAGINE making a thread about something that was debated thoroughly just to practically repeat the same arguments!

Jokes aside yeah I disagree for the reasonings given in this thread and the last one.

 

[Theglassman12]

Idk anything fire force related, but I got dragged into this by several staff members so whatever, I disagree with the downgrade going off Maintreya's comment. Also don't get why this was a staff only thread at first when normal users are the majority of the supporters.

 

[Reio35]

I think it would have been easier to argue their not affecting the whole universe. Only some stars were affected by the cataclysm. While others were not.

 

[CloverDragon03]

What gets me about this is that OP is regurgitating the same arguments that were already deemed insufficient counters to the thread that made Fire Force 2-C literally 2 days ago. So, if nothing new is being brought in that wasn’t in the previous thread, why even bother with a new thread so soon?

If it was later, I’d understand, as opinions can change over time. But so soon? Really?

I think it would have been easier to argue their not affecting the whole universe. Only some stars were affected by the cataclysm. While others were not.

Already addressed in the thread 2 days ago. The last Great Cataclysm resulted in the universal constant pi becoming solvable. If it wasn’t affecting the whole universe, that wouldn’t have happened.

 

[Alexander]

also,for adding out,the collective unconcioness is probably(like mostly)inspired in carl jung,we now this,because the amount of times is mentioned the collective unconcioness.
and also because of this quote that i found:
Our psyche is set up in accord with the structure of the universe, and what happens in the macrocosm likewise happens in the infinitesimal and most subjective reaches of the psyche.
there is more phrases that fit with fire force,for the crazy who wants to investigated,look this.

 

[Reio35]

1) Adolla a separate world is completely disconnected from the real world. Totally and completely, it’s verbatim stated it’s another plane entirely. Hence why the merging of the two worlds causes space to tear between them in the first place. And hence why it’s referred to as a higher plane in the first place.

2) The past of mankind pre-cataclysm is different than the present mankind post cataclysm. This is because Adolla doesn’t just carry and embody “despair” in of itself, but the very despair of the history of mankind as well. The despair carries history in of itself as Adolla embodies all concepts and perception within it. That’s why Shinra had to go into Adolla to see the past pre-cataclysm in the first place. He even experienced different time flows as 3 months had passed while his mind was in Adolla and a doppelgänger from Adolla had taken over his body. This very image and history of mankind’s past despair is merging with the present world.

That's only a different time axis not a separate space-time or timeline.

In short, Adolla is a higher plane completely spatially disconnected from the real world that experiences it’s own time flow with its own history of the concepts of mankind pre-cataclysm. It’s even noted that the concepts of the people of the past mixes with the present world, signifying a clear distinction between them. An Adolla’s merging of the past’s history of despair and the present world causes the cataclysm to occur.

Time axis of the past and time axis of the present isn't as different timelines. Also according to the rules you have to prove the size of these realms are universal. This seems to be limited the earth's past.

Anyways since knowledgeable staff members such as Planck and Maverick and Ultima and Clover and even I believe Mitch as well were the ones who proposed and agreed upon 2-C scaling, I differ to their opinions on the matter as this thread was made literally 2 days after the other one was accepted.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Neither did you address anything I sent you know

What the actual **** are you talking about?

where shinra and sho while on earth and wanted to travel into the adolla, he had to disintegrate to do so, i.e. he had to travel into the past to do so.

This is just straight up wrong.

Shinra was only reminiscing the fact that he had been doing the impossible through the series such as literally turning to particle.

Nowhere does it say that Shinra had to go to the past to enter Adolla.

your scan is just Shinra reminiscing on him doing the impossible NOT him going into Adolla.