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Demon Slayer (Kimetsu no Yaiba) - Breath of Discussion: 5th Form

Elixirr said:
I'm new to this so I have no idea what this means, mind substantiating further?

Wouldn't it be even more likely for the slayers to meet up if Nakime had an infinite space to control opposed to a finite amount of space? And iirc Tanjiro and Giyu were teleported to Muzan's location, and not that they found him by chance. Since then, the other slayers found Muzan because Nakime was incapacitated
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Stabilization feats mean that it is possible to assign a tier to a character sustaining a structure and Nakime would be doing that through her Blood Demon Art which means that sustaining the Infinity Fortress could be scaled to her statistics the same way Doma creating an ice sculpture currently scales to his statistics since demons derive their strength from eating humans and Muzan's blood with Blood Demon Arts growing alongside a demon's physical strength and being in fact a product of them reaching a certain level of strength. I'm not going to assume that Nakime sustains an infinite space and assign her High 3-A or Low 2-C for that.

Wouldn't the opposite be the case? If Nakime has access to an infinite space that she can freely control, then she has pretty much infinite range inside that space and she could have put them at places with an infinite distance to each other. It wouldn't simply be less likely for them to meet up it would be outright impossible unless they have Infinite Speed or are even faster than that. I'm pretty sure that Tanjiro and Giyu had the face a number Lower Moon level demons and Akaza before they got to Muzan, so they weren't outright teleported to his location. Chapter 180 and 181 show that they were guided by a Kasugai Crow to Muzan which further shows that they weren't teleported to his location.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
If Nakime has access to an infinite space that she can freely control, then she has pretty much infinite range inside that space and she could have put them at places with an infinite distance to each other. It wouldn't simply be less likely for them to meet up it would be outright impossible unless they have Infinite Speed or are even faster than that.
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Fair enough, how big do you think it is then? I would say hundreds or maybe even thousands of kilometers
Nehz_XZX said:
I'm pretty sure that Tanjiro and Giyu had the face a number Lower Moon level demons and Akaza before they got to Muzan, so they weren't outright teleported to his location. Chapter 180 and 181 show that they were guided by a Kasugai Crow to Muzan which further shows that they weren't teleported to his location.
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Yeah I was referring to chap 180-181 here, which they did get teleported to Muzan's location
 
Elixirr said:
Fair enough, how big do you think it is then? I would wage hundreds or maybe even thousands of kilometers

Yeah I was referring to chap 180-181 here, which they did get teleported to Muzan's location
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It's hard to tell. We do know that it is large enough for hundreds of people to be going around in it and fight for 6 hours and that individual Demon Slayer Corps members were able to traverse it for some time without running into other members.

Oh, okay.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
It's hard to tell. We do know that it is large enough for hundreds of people to be going around in it and fight for 6 hours and that individual Demon Slayer Corps members were able to traverse it for some time without running into other members.
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Himeji Castle might be a decent comparison since it's basically the upperbound of Japanese living at the time. It obviously could be bigger, but 233 hectares is a decent enough lowball given that the Infinity Castle could simply take a smaller amount of space and be instead confusing to navigate due to the way walls and doors are structured. 2.6 miles in height and width and length should be decent enough imo
 
Nehz_XZX said:
It's hard to tell. We do know that it is large enough for hundreds of people to be going around in it and fight for 6 hours and that individual Demon Slayer Corps members were able to traverse it for some time without running into other members.
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I think thousands of kilometers would work taking all of this into consideration
 
I think that number is grossly exaggerated given that the space is seemingly large both vertically and horizontally, plus the presence of walls would make it more difficult to traverse than a completely free space. Thousands of kilometers in an environment like that would literally be like the Backrooms, and would likely take weeks at minimum if not years for them to reunite. Instead let's use simple maths for a highball to start:

We will assume they're sprinting 100% of the time, and that they were purely running around to find each other rather than be completely occupied having to fight on the way, and that they were going a straight distance rather than turning and weaving around:

Human running speed is 10 kph, it took them six hours to traverse. 6 hr * 10 km/hr = 60 km. And no, we are not using the Massively Hypersonic speed of Demon Slayers to do this as it would be calc-stacking, this is a more valid approach.

That's the minimum we can work with, and even then, this is generous given that the nature of the space itself could just make a small space feel larger than it is. Just for context, 60 km is by no means small, and a cubic space that large is about 216,000 km^3, roughly enough to contain the entire Red Sea in it.
 
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Naitodesu said:
Human running speed is 10 kph, it took them six hours to traverse. 6 hr * 10 km/hr = 60 km. And no, we are not using the Massively Hypersonic speed of Demon Slayers to do this as it would be calc-stacking, this is a more valid approach.
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10 km/h would be Below Average Human according to the Speed page. Given that all of the Demon Slayers are trained to fight demons, which are superhuman by default and have been shown on multiple occasions to blitz ordinary humans, and have undergone the Pillar Training you should probably consider at least Peak Human speed for them.
 
I'll up the speed according to your suggestions but I'm not sure if Combat Speed would translate to Travel Speed, but it would be a decent compromise.

Wiki average peak human running speed is 40.914 kph, it took them six hours to traverse. 6 hr * 40.914 km/hr =245.48 km

This is assuming they had been purely running in a single direction straight for 6 hours, with no obstacles or distractions along the way.
 
Naitodesu said:
I'll up the speed according to your suggestions but I'm not sure if Combat Speed would translate to Travel Speed, but it would be a decent compromise.

Wiki average peak human running speed is 40.914 kph, it took them six hours to traverse. 6 hr * 40.914 km/hr =245.48 km

This is assuming they had been purely running in a single direction straight for 6 hours, with no obstacles or distractions along the way.
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I doubt that demons and demon slayers can be considered to only fight fast since demons have been shown to travel fast as well and pretty much all of the characters are capable of acrobatic stunts while moving towards another location, so Average Human is absolutely not appropriate for any of them. You also have to consider that the demon slayers are only ever shown to travel on foot towards the location of their mission with the Pillars having areas to patrol assigned to them. Rengoku going after the Slasher Demon in the anime original episode also shows quite blatantly that he is perfectly capable of traveling fast across a larger distance which should be the case for his fellow Pillars as well.
 
I don't see why thousands of kilometers isn't a possibility. If anything, hundreds of kilometers would be a lowball since we have hundreds of slayers and hundreds, maybe even thousands, of demons wandering the entire thing, and yet we rarely see slayers meet up (other than the ones that entered the IF together). That's not even considering the fact that the majority of slayers had to travel for nearly 5 hours in order to reach Muzan's location (we know that Ubuyashiki knows where Muzan is located).

The fact that the Ubuyashiki siblings, working together, couldn't map out the entire fortress (from a bird's eye view) despite having countless crows, slayers, and the aforementioned 5 hours also goes to show that hundreds of kilometers isn't that plausible.

I'm certain that all we've seen of the IF in S1 Ep 26 took up about 100+ kilometers of space, and that's only one area in the IF. Places like where Zenitsu vs Kaigaku (when Zenitsu was falling) and Kokushibo vs Pillars already seemed to have no observable end, and same goes to where Nakime vs Obamitsu and the LM meeting took place. All of this suggests that IF should have a range thousands of kilometers at minimum
 
Elixirr said:
I don't see why thousands of kilometers isn't a possibility. If anything, hundreds of kilometers would be a lowball since we have hundreds of slayers and hundreds, maybe even thousands, of demons wandering the entire thing, and yet we rarely see slayers meet up (other than the ones that entered the IF together). That's not even considering the fact that the majority of slayers had to travel for nearly 5 hours in order to reach Muzan's location (we know that Ubuyashiki knows where Muzan is located).

The fact that the Ubuyashiki siblings, working together, couldn't map out the entire fortress (from a bird's eye view) despite having countless crows, slayers, and the aforementioned 5 hours also goes to show that hundreds of kilometers isn't that plausible.

I'm certain that all we've seen of the IF in S1 Ep 26 took up about 100+ kilometers of space, and that's only one area in the IF. Places like where Zenitsu vs Kaigaku (when Zenitsu was falling) and Kokushibo vs Pillars already seemed to have no observable end, and same goes to where Nakime vs Obamitsu and the LM meeting took place. All of this suggests that IF should have a range thousands of kilometers at minimum
Click to expand...
Well, I've updated Nakime's range to thousands of kilometers anyway since Muzan's justification for thousands of kilometers in his range involves the Infinity Fortress which is tied to Nakime and she was able to simply teleport Gyokko and Hantengu to a location of their choice.
 
I still think thousands of kilometers is too gigantic for that, the high end of hundreds of kilometers still more or less covers that. Hell, more people have gotten lost in smaller places due to their construction rather than their size. It sounds to me more like you're willingly exaggerating the size of it by factors that can easily be explained by other aspects of the Infinity fortress rather than its sheer size.

The IF could feasibly contain as much distance as a few thousand kilometers within its space, but I personally believe it's possible in the way that humans contain about 60,000 miles of blood vessels in their bodies. And you don't see humans the size of countries walking around, do you? This is where I find the logic behind the assumed thousand kilometers to be too hasty with too many assumptions made. Sure, the paths around the IF could very well be thousands of kilometers, but with the way the IF is constructed, you can still contain that much distance within a cubic space that's at minimum, 60km long and wide.

It's meant to be a labyrinth of branching and winding paths rather than an endless plane with no end in sight, it's hard to navigate, it's no open field. This assumption only works if you just completely ignore the fact that the Infinity Fortress isn't crowded with rooms, doors, stairs, etc., Assuming thousands of kilometers in size is just deliberately just going for higher numbers without factoring in the circumstances and plainly assuming size to be the only reason for the reasons stated that can have more plausible alternative explanations.
 
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Isn't the Infinite Fortress stated to be infinite in a guide/report/fanbooks?
 
I mean that doesn't mean anything, John Lennon said he was better than Jesus, Alexander the Great said he was a son of Zeus, the gods mentioned here should be presumed to be mythological figures rather than existing characters, so these statements don't really mean much.
 
Alexander said:
why gyotaru mentions that he will kill budha for his sister and muzan mentions that he is superior to budha.
I don't know exactly what budha is referring to, I don't know what budha means at that time
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Buddha is a prominent religious figure in Japanese culture due to Buddhist influence. It's not unusual for Japanese characters in a manga to mention him especially when the setting is in a past period. As far as I can tell Buddha isn't relevant to the story outside of being mentioned.
 
Do yall think this counts as bfr? Giyu was out for one and a half chaps after this, apologies for the big image btw

12.jpg
 
If this was considered BFR, literally any time a guy gets knocked out of the screen for a huge portion of a fight would count, which imo, is very stupid. Not to mention that one and a half chapter isn't a decent metric for the timeframe that Giyu was gone.
 
Tanjiro's Stamina section could probably use some work. It doesn't mention his training on Mount Sagiri or that he would scale to Inosuke's stamina feat. His stamina feats from the Entertainment District arc are also noticeably absent and the profile doesn't seem to separate the stamina feats from the Post-Type Zero Training and Post-Pillar Training keys.
 
This calculation was accepted, so we'll have to edit the verse page and profiles accordingly. Does anyone have something relevant to say about this?
 
speedster352 said:
It looks fine do other upper-rank demons scale to this like kaigaku and hatengu for example?
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Kaigaku is City Block level+ due to scaling to Zenitsu, so he would get upgraded to 8-A and Hantengu upscales from Kaigaku due to Kaigaku being a relatively inexperienced demon who has the rank of Upper Moon 6 despite there being a free Upper Moon 5 position.
 
speedster352 said:
It looks fine do other upper-rank demons scale to this like kaigaku and hatengu for example?
Click to expand...
basically everything I said in a previous thread:

Comparable:
Nezuko (>= Daki and UM4's clones who should be comparable to her)
Genya (Iffy on this one, scaling mainly because they were comparable-ish while training)
Kaigaku (Relativity to Zenitsu in the IF fight)
Tengen (High end relative to Gyutaro who should be >= Kaigaku)
Gyutaro + Daki (Should be superior or at least comparable to Kaigaku)
Inosuke (Relativity to Zenitsu in the Muzan fight)
Kanao (Relativity to Zenitsu in the Muzan fight)

Above:
Gyokko (>UM6)
Shinobu (Relative to a casual Doma which narratively should be above UM6)
Mui (>UM5 > UM6 ~ Zenitsu)
Hantengu (>> UM6)
Rengoku (~ UM3 >>> UM6 ~ Zenitsu)
Mitsuri (~ UM4 >> UM6 ~ Zenitsu, dodged attacks from Muzan)
Giyu (~ UM3 >> UM6 ~ Zenitsu)
Akaza (>>> UM6)
Sanemi (~ UM1 >>>> UM6 ~ Zenitsu)
Obanai (Did better than marked Sanemi in Muzan fight)
Gyomei (~ UM1 >>>> UM6 ~ Zenitsu)
Doma (>>> UM6)
Koku (>>>> UM6)
Tanjiro (Relative to Muzan who blitzed marked Gyomei, Sanemi, Giyu, Obanai and base + invisible Kanao, Inosuke and Zenitsu)
Muzan (> Tanjiro)
Yoriichi (>>>> Muzan)
 
If there are no serious objections, then I will apply the 8-A calculation to the verse page and everyone who is currently City Block level+.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
If there are no serious objections, then I will apply the 8-A calculation to the verse page and everyone who is currently City Block level+.
Click to expand...
The change has been done. Please tell me if I missed anything.

Elixirr said:
Comparable:
Nezuko (>= Daki and UM4's clones who should be comparable to her)
Tengen (High end relative to Gyutaro who should be >= Kaigaku)
Gyutaro + Daki (Should be superior or at least comparable to Kaigaku)
Click to expand...
The scaling of these characters needs to be discussed if they are supposed to be 8-A since they didn't have a City-Block level+ rating before the calculation was approved.

Nehz_XZX said:
Tanjiro's Stamina section could probably use some work. It doesn't mention his training on Mount Sagiri or that he would scale to Inosuke's stamina feat. His stamina feats from the Entertainment District arc are also noticeably absent and the profile doesn't seem to separate the stamina feats from the Post-Type Zero Training and Post-Pillar Training keys.
Click to expand...
This still needs to be discussed as well.
 
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