Trick or treat, give me a 2-B Sonic

[Oblivion_Lightning]

It doesn't say a reality it just says reality. And yes, you can mirror a planet including the skies having visual stars without the stars themselves being universes. Astronomers built museums and decorations that mirror the cosmos all the time.

Dude this is such a big stretch.You need some major proof that the stars are somehow not tangible stars as contradicted by literally everything else in Maginaryworld.The whole museum compares makes no sense and has no prevalence.

Also what are you talking about with the stars being universes? The dream worlds are universes not the stars.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

It doesn't say a reality it just says reality. And yes, you can mirror a planet including the skies having visual stars without the stars themselves being universes. Astronomers built museums and decorations that mirror the cosmos all the time.

This is another bad analogy. The decorations in a museum aren't real celestial objects.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm not suggesting, I'm merely considering. Illusions are a thing. But Having a starry sky or a galaxy doesn't equate to them being universes. Even if they were 3-A or High 3-A sized individually, it wouldn't be enough to make them 2-B. This is no different than the Kingdom Hearts thread. The context also still simply says made reality as opposed to them entirety of a reality. They either need a direct statement that they're universes, or the context of being reality needs to outright stated they're realities each and every one rather than just reality as a piece of fabric.

 

[Godhand1999]

It doesn't say a reality it just says reality. And yes, you can mirror a planet including the skies having visual stars without the stars themselves being universes. Astronomers built museums and decorations that mirror the cosmos all the time.

You're still not understanding the simple fact that the dreams in MaginaryWorld are actually physically real and tangible. They are literally parallel to Sonic's world. The decorations in a museum are hand crafted and are not real celestial objects. Try again

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I'm not suggesting, I'm merely considering. But Having a starry sky or a galaxy doesn't equate to them being universes. Even if they were 3-A or High 3-A sized, it wouldn't be enough to make them 2-B. This is no different than the Kingdom Hearts thread. The context also still simply says made reality as opposed to them entirety of a reality.

My dude, the worlds in Kingdom Hearts are literally just planets.

Again, nobody said simply having a starry sky or a galaxy equates to them being universes. Stop pulling up strawmans.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

I'm not suggesting, I'm merely considering. Illusions are a thing. But Having a starry sky or a galaxy doesn't equate to them being universes. Even if they were 3-A or High 3-A sized individually, it wouldn't be enough to make them 2-B. This is no different than the Kingdom Hearts thread. The context also still simply says made reality as opposed to them entirety of a reality. They either need a direct statement that they're universes, or the context of being reality needs to outright stated they're realities each and every one rather than just reality as a fabric.

The stars and galaxies again are merely supporting evidence that the realities mirrored are far larger and give context to them being universes.The fact that they mirror dimensions/reality and contain countless stars which is what Sonic's dimension and all the other dimensions should have prove it's size.I'm also stating that saying it's not a universe is a bigger stretch at this point.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Saying they are universes is always the bigger stretch because it's asking me to prove a negative. Sera said "This is going no where". So perhaps it would be healthiest to just close the thread.

 

[Godhand1999]

DDM you can't request to keep closing threads like this when you have not debunked anything within the thread whatsoever.

 

[ShakeResounding]

> The debate is actually going somewhere

> Wants to end the debate

Now wait a diddly darn doofus minute!

 

[Godhand1999]

Saying they are universes is always the bigger stretch because it's asking me to prove a negative. Sera said "This is going no where". So perhaps it would be healthiest to just close the thread.

We already provided evidence for why they are. You have to prove they aren't, lol

 

[Emissary_From_Hell]

Stop speaking on Sera's behalf, DDM.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Address literally all our other points other than just that.Also what proof do you have that contradicts the dream worlds being universes?

>Mirror reality which are dimensions

>The mirrored reality contains galaxies and oceans of stars

>They all exist separately from one another

Your stretching to debunk these with unreasonable ideas and debunks.What Sera says again isn't the word of law and this appealing to authority doesn't help your case.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Then stop trying to make your selves end up like these guys

And no, there wasn't any proof, not on the blog, or on this thread. Only some misinterpreted text that contradicts what was actually said.

 

[Radical_Resident_Khan]

You can't close the debate cause it was going somewhere. That doesn't make any sense

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Then stop trying to make your selves end up like these guys

And no, there wasn't any proof, not on the blog, or on this thread. Only some misinterpreted text that contradicts what was actually said.

If you really wanna go by that flawed logic than I can say Uno Reverse and say everyone here debunked your flawed arguments as you never responded to ours and were shot down at every debunk attempt.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Then stop trying to make your selves end up like these guys

And no, there wasn't any proof, not on the blog, or on this thread. Only some misinterpreted text that contradicts what was actually said.

If you really wanna go by that flawed logic than I can say Uno Reverse and say everyone here debunked your flawed arguments as you never responded to ours and were shot down at every debunk attempt.

he wasn't tho, pretty much everything in support of the thread is headcanon

 

[MYHERO]

I might no longer associate myself with Sonic anymore in the powerscaling scene due to how toxic it became, but I am still in touch with people that does debate it. And I have been watching them behind the scene, working diligently on preparing this. This project has been a long time coming, and to even suggest closing this before the arguments reached their climax or to a proper conclusion, would be the ultimate insult to their hard work. I don't care if I don't have a shade of green in my name, I'm not gonna let this die off until it reaches a suitable ending where it's yes to the upgrade or not. No more stalling.

 

[Emissary_From_Hell]

Then stop trying to make your selves end up like these guys And no, there wasn't any proof, not on the blog, or on this thread. Only some misinterpreted text that contradicts what was actually said.

Stop associating people to past wrongdoers who are completely unrelated.

Your concerns have already been addressed. You can't fall back to closing the thread just because you can't be bothered to discuss this further.

 

[Godhand1999]

Then stop trying to make your selves end up like these guys

And no, there wasn't any proof, not on the blog, or on this thread. Only some misinterpreted text that contradicts what was actually said.

Yes there WAS proof. We had just explained it and we'll keep explaining it. The fact that these dreams can become reality, they mirror Sonic's world, and are ALL confined in the MaginaryWorld, they are separate from one another, and all come from different dimensions which are literally countless.

Also, wow. How mature of you to group us with literal doxxers, lol

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

If you really wanna go by that flawed logic than I can say Uno Reverse and say everyone here debunked your flawed arguments as you never responded to ours and were shot down at every debunk attempt.
he wasn't tho, pretty much everything in support of the thread is headcanon

That's a baseless claim that's gonna need an actual argument to be considered as literally nothing we've presented is headcanon whole everything DDM has brought up has been shot down by several memebers.So please prove your claim before coming off with the idea that every thing here is headcanon because what you just did was make your own headcanon.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

So what's the rundown? I wanna jump on in this.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Only one of those people was doxing, the others were just systemic harassers, stoners, bigots, ect. And actually what's happening in another Discord group. But yes, you can get banned for saying bigoted slur words against people off site just like KamiYasha did especially if legitimately used in an offensive context; it's no different than committing murder if you're threatening people or encouraging them to commit you know what. You guys also need to read this article and this one Committing obvious crimes behind closed doors is not an excuse to be committing obvious crimes. We've seen everything but that will be made clear eventually.

Anyway, I actually did receive support in my refute and there hasn't been a proper rebuttal to my rebuttal.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Then stop trying to make your selves end up like these guys
And no, there wasn't any proof, not on the blog, or on this thread. Only some misinterpreted text that contradicts what was actually said.

That's a low blow DDM. Don't compare people on this thread to literal doxxers.

 

[Yvel_Atsly]

@DarkDragonMedeus What in the name of the universe are you talking about?

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Saying they are universes is always the bigger stretch because it's asking me to prove a negative. Sera said "This is going no where". So perhaps it would be healthiest to just close the thread.

You know, Sera is in this thread. She can and has shown to speak for herself in many regards. You don't have keep appealing to authority. Cause it makes you sound like a regular VSBW member.

 

[Godhand1999]

1. Literally every single person had ripped open your "rebuttal" apart.

2. We have never done any of the sort. So, you bringing up those guys and comparing us to them is like you throwing shade at us. Real mature for a mod. DDM the conversation was going somewhere and now you want to close it? That's disrespectful to all the hard work that was put in to making this thread. BTW I shouldn't even be discussing this because that thread you brought up is irrelevant to the main topic at hand.

It's obvious you can't stay focused.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yes, but she also knows exactly what I'm talking about. And she said she doesn't care about this thread, but she absolutely wants the attacks towards me and Matt to be dropped permanently. And she too is tired of Sonic upgrade theads being bombarded left and right and has literally said she wants to avoid them whenever possible. I respect her wishes not just as wiki colleges or as follow Admins, but as friends who are like family.

@GodHand, I have worked even harder on much longer revision threads only to have them closed, but I had to roll with it even when I had a lot of support. But I didn't go on any sort of witch hunt nor did any of those who also supported it.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

What....

Have you seen all the debunks we have posted?You still never proved that the dream worlds are universes by our contextual evidence other than "word salad","stars don't equal Universe" and some vague stuff about it not being the complete reality that's completely unfounded.Look back through the previous posts and actually address them without using the mentioned illegitimate reasons above.

Also I'm pretty annoyed with how you literally threatened to ban us since you cannot respond to us.It shows lack of faith and desperation to close something you cannot respond opening up a window of bias.

 

[Yvel_Atsly]

Who was talking about Matt after all the rebuttles? And who attacked you?

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Only one of those people was doxing, the others were just systemic harassers, stoners, bigots ect. And actually what's happening in another Discord group. But yes, you can get banned for saying bigoted slur words against people off site; it's no different than committing murder. Commiting obvious crimes behind closed doors is not an excuse to be committing obvious crimes. We've seen everything but that will be made clear eventually.

Anyway, I actually did receive support in my refute and there hasn't been a proper rebuttal to my rebuttal.

"Saying the N-word on Discord or anywhere that's a better site than this hellhole is as bad as killing someone."

I bet I know who you're going to be voting for the 2020 election. Since when has saying slurs equate to murder? Actually... what does this have to do with anything about this thread? This just proves you and Matt are just not reliable as staff members and only wanna start stuff. And people say I'm the worst member on this site. smfh…

 

[Godhand1999]

Yes, but she also knows exactly what I'm talking about. And she said she doesn't care about this thread, but she absolutely wants the attacks towards me and Matt to be dropped permanently. And she too is tired of Sonic upgrade theads being bombarded left and right and has literally said she wants to avoid them whenever possible. I respect her wishes not just as wiki colleges or as follow Admins, but as friends who are like family.
@GodHand, I have worked even harder on much longer revision threads only to have them closed, but I had to roll with it even when I had a lot of support. But I didn't go on any sort of witch hunt nor did any of those who also supported it.

My dude. We merely wanted to put Sonic at the right tier he's supposed to be put into. Nobody is going on a "witch hunt" why aren't mad at Matt? You should be mad at Matt because it seems like he's on a "witch hunt" when it comes to these Sonic Threads.

Don't accuse us as being the same as those people you just linked. Actually counter our points which you have yet to do.

 

[Emissary_From_Hell]

I'd stop there if I were you. Do you really want to go down this very specific rabbithole? Doxxers or not, that's some pretty considerable shade that you just blindly threw out at a lot of people for no good reason. You're actually claiming people commited crimes here. And please, don't compare internet name-calling to murder, especially when this whole rant of seems to be fueled by a sense of outrage.
Now, can you kindly not waste our time trying to vilify people and rather discuss the actual arguments relevant to the thread? After all, if you're as correct as you seem to believe you are, relying on such tactics should be unnecessary.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Not the N word, but the R word, or bigot-ting against people with mental illnesses. And it's not simply saying the words out loud that's offensive, but literally using them in offensive context. It's like the #1 rule on any social media that cyber-bullying, discrimination, verbal harassment is murder. This video is proof of that, be warned the video is hard to watch. Especially encouraging people to commit you know what. It also says so in something else very main stream but also very controversial. Also, I never said you were "The worst", I said one of the worst behaved users here. And no, he's not on a witch hunt, he's trying to make sure all verses are in their right tiers, not just Sonic. Sonic shouldn't be getting special treatment solely because it has such as dedicated fanbase; that's never how we do things for any verse.

 

[Yvel_Atsly]

How is saying politically incorrect words and stuff akin to murder? We're just typing letters on the internet

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

It's odd how we're viewed as the antagonistic people and get threatened with a ban while a certain Green to Yellow person was causing toxicity and problems of accusations.

Hmm...

Sonic Fans:Having a legitimate debate and presenting their points

Certain Staff Memeber:Throws whiny tantrum and insults Sonic fans

Yeah the Sonic fans are definitely the antagonizers here.I find it funny how easily you defend Matt when he causes the most toxicity here when we just a debate.Even if he's trying to get an accurate tier so are we and he's going ahead and causing this toxicity that Sera despises and that we all despise.Now please address our arguments so we can continue with the debate.

 

[GoldenBoyBlue]

@DDM Seriously. Can you stop going off-topic, making references to stuff that has nothing to do with this thread and getting offended over words? No offense, but welcome to the internet my dude. If you have nothing else to add aside from "no one has debunked my arguments" even though they quite clearly have, just concede and let the upgrade go through. If you wanna try to make a downgrade thread afterwards, cool, but right now, it seems like you're just stonewalling because you've run out of stuff to say.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

• Before making sweeping or significant changes to characters or verse pages, please start a thread in the Content Revision forum first, so that the suggestions may be evaluated by the Staff and the community at large, to ensure that they are acceptable. The concluding evaluations must be handled by Discussion Moderators, Administrators, or Bureaucrats, who should make an effort to base their evaluations on valid arguments, not personal opinions.

This is what we're going by. And if a single staff member hasn't approved it, then it will not go through. Also yelling and cussing at people isn't the way to go. Also, curiosity. How is simply telling people it's not enough proof less mature than flat out yelling at people and using "Colored names" as an argument? It isn't simple as that.

Anyway, summarized conclusions. One, none of the Dream Worlds are stated to be universes. Two, Dreams becoming reality in context simply means they come into existence, not that they become alternate realities. Three, dreams being from alternate dimensions =/= dreams literally being alternate dimensions. Four, Mirroring images doesn't mean they're the same size or that they mirror the entirety of it rather than part of it. 4th Dimensional Space =/= beyond Space-Time barriers and at best just mean spatial barriers. In other words, nothing here is 2-B.

 

[Absaddie]

In regards to the dream depot, wasn't that one accepted due to this one description of one of the dreams where it says "see the wonders of the universe!" to that effect? Along with some other time "universe" was used to refer to another dream?

Also fellas I don't like where this is going, seems pretty heated.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Are we going back to what this thread is about?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Absaddie, that should be on my wall rather than here. It it was accepted because even some of the run of the mill dreams had it's description as giving those the who enter to explore the wonders of the universe. As well as countless statements of being infinite in size. And Multiple statements from other games confirming dreams literally being alternate realities. Sonic Shuffle doesn't have enough flavor text to verify all of that.

I do agree that this is heated and it should be closed however.