WE MAKIN IT INTO A HIGHER COSMOLOGY WITH THIS ONE🗣🔥 | Archie Sonic, Solaris and Cosmology additions | 0-0-0

[ShakeResounding]

Honestly, yeah, I agree with Qawsed and Unknown Warrior here. Bottom line is that it's integral for him to use the Chaos Emeralds to fuse, that part is mandatory. He should be 7-D from that alone. I think that the current profile handles it pretty well in terms of being conservative, but it just doesn't make sense in hindsight.

As for the Superdimensional statement... I'm neutral.

 

[FaceOff81]

Currently we scale Solaris to being above the Cosmic Interstate and the multiverse, but is still beneath the Next Evolution and Chaos Force. And earlier today, Elixir Blue made a compelling argument that Solaris couldn't have been destroying the whole cosmology because then the Neo and Ancient Walkers would've gotten involved if he was that powerful.

I don't know how much of this thread you've read and if you've seen my arguments, but I'm of the camp that Solaris should just be straight up 1-C due to Mephilies and Iblis remerging due to the Chaos Emeralds and then fighting against Super Sonic and possibly Super Shadow. The 5-D stuff could be relegated to hax since the Encyclopedia states that Solaris was consuming time and space through localized black holes, and then he'd just be 1-C with HDE added onto it

I see. The way I see it, Solaris would be at least be a new dimensional tier in terms of adding to the cosmology. I'm picturing it looking something like this:

The Chaos Force > The Next Evolution > Solaris > Maginaryworld > Extradimensional Worlds that are powered by the Maginaryworld Gem stone > Cosmic Interstate > Multiverse

Each of these have their own tier of Dimensionality. Wouldn't you include Super Silver in that as well?

 

[FaceOff81]

Honestly, yeah, I agree with Qawsed and Unknown Warrior here. Bottom line is that it's integral for him to use the Chaos Emeralds to fuse, that part is mandatory. He should be 7-D from that alone. I think that the current profile handles it pretty well in terms of being conservative, but it just doesn't make sense in hindsight.

As for the Superdimensional statement... I'm neutral.

Personally, given the arguments I've provided earlier, I think that the Superdimensional Being statement should apply here as well. It genuinely doesn't make sense otherwise from what I've gathered. Of course, Solaris is still below the Next Evolution and The Chaos Force.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Sonic 06 happened in archie sonic according to This

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Shadow the Hedgehog is also considered canon to Archie Sonic, but it plays out so differently from the game version that it's something different entirely (Elixir actually pointed this out by bringing up that the Black Arms don't even invade in the Pre Genesis Continuity, which means that the events of Shadow are much different in Archie).

@Brogeefrong I don't think most here on the thread have an issue with 06 being canon, only that it's not beat to beat the same as the game version, which is why the super dimensional statement for Solaris applying to Archie is doubtful to some.

 

[Brogeefrong]

bump, also

Shadow the Hedgehog is also considered canon to Archie Sonic, but it plays out so differently from the game version that it's something different entirely (Elixir actually pointed this out by bringing up that the Black Arms don't even invade in the Pre Genesis Continuity, which means that the events of Shadow are much different in Archie).

@Brogeefrong I don't think most here on the thread have an issue with 06 being canon, only that it's not beat to beat the same as the game version, which is why the super dimensional statement for Solaris applying to Archie is doubtful to some.

wouldnt it still apply as a likely/possibly as how it does now

 

[Brogeefrong]

bump

 

[FaceOff81]

Like I've said previously:
The way I see it, Solaris would be at least be a new dimensional tier in terms of adding to the cosmology. I'm picturing it looking something like this:

The Chaos Force > The Next Evolution > Solaris > Maginaryworld > Extradimensional Worlds that are powered by the Maginaryworld Gem stone > Cosmic Interstate > Multiverse

This should bump the Archie Continuity Cosmology and Off Panel Cosmology up by one dimensionality tier each. In this case, it should be 8D and 9D respectively.

 

[Brogeefrong]

bump

 

[Brogeefrong]

Bump

 

[Brogeefrong]

bump

 

[Brogeefrong]

bump

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Like I've said previously:
The way I see it, Solaris would be at least be a new dimensional tier in terms of adding to the cosmology. I'm picturing it looking something like this:

The Chaos Force > The Next Evolution > Solaris > Maginaryworld > Extradimensional Worlds that are powered by the Maginaryworld Gem stone > Cosmic Interstate > Multiverse

This should bump the Archie Continuity Cosmology and Off Panel Cosmology up by one dimensionality tier each. In this case, it should be 8D and 9D respectively.

I've had some time to think about this for the last few days and, honestly, the dimensional tier for Solaris should apply towards his HDE.

Solaris being powered by the Chaos Emeralds and fighting against Super Sonic and potentially Super Shadow should infer that Solaris already has the range and potency to affect things beyond his dimensional tier such as the Chaos Force for example. But it could serve to upgrade the NE and CF up another dimension, but I'd rather leave that to the experts that actually know about Archie Sonic

 

[Qawsedf234]

But it could serve to upgrade the NE and CF up another dimension, but I'd rather leave that to the experts that actually know about Archie Sonic

I don't see an upgrade for NE since it still has both space and time, just an irregular variant of it. CF would upscale since it's beyond space and time, but even then it would mean Solaris is 6D with HDE but has 7D AP.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I don't see an upgrade for NE since it still has both space and time, just an irregular variant of it. CF would upscale since it's beyond space and time, but even then it would mean Solaris is 6D with HDE but has 7D AP.

So would this result in the Next Evolution being up for a downgrade from its 6-D status if it's not truly beyond beyond time and space? I know the NE is considered a higher plane of existence from the Cosmic Interstate, but I know squat about the standards about higher planes qualifying for higher dimensional so I won't try arguing for that.

Though if you were to ask me, and assuming it's acceptable, we could still keep the Chaos Force at 7-D if the continuity insulates that it's even beyond Solaris dimensionality eise despite the later being beyond the Cosmic Interstate. But I'd rather have Shake give his thoughts since he was one of the people who proposed 6-D NE in the cosmology blog

 

[Qawsedf234]

So would this result in the Next Evolution being up for a downgrade from its 6-D status if it's not truly beyond beyond time and space?

It's beyond the normal multiverse still, but it isn't beyond space and time. That only happens after the second ascension into the Chaos Force.

 

[FaceOff81]

I've had some time to think about this for the last few days and, honestly, the dimensional tier for Solaris should apply towards his HDE.

Solaris being powered by the Chaos Emeralds and fighting against Super Sonic and potentially Super Shadow should infer that Solaris already has the range and potency to affect things beyond his dimensional tier such as the Chaos Force for example. But it could serve to upgrade the NE and CF up another dimension, but I'd rather leave that to the experts that actually know about Archie Sonic

While I agree that he should have a higher dimensional tier, it should be below the Chaos Force and Next Evolution because the Ancient Walkers would have gotten involved otherwise. That's why I think that Solaris in it of itself grants the Archie Continuity and Off Panel cosmology an extra dimensional tier to 8D and 9D respectively.

 

[FaceOff81]

It's beyond the normal multiverse still, but it isn't beyond space and time. That only happens after the second ascension into the Chaos Force.

That I'm not in total agreement in due to how the Prime Zone and Cosmic Interstate are considered 5D with Maginaryworld being 6D. Those in it of themselves are already beyond time and space through their dimensional tiering so no matter what, Solaris would be beyond space and time. Like I said before, I think it would make more sense if we structure the scaling/cosmology as above the Prime Zone, Cosmic Interstate, and Maginaryworld (making him 7D) while he is still below the Next Evolution and Chaos Force due to the Ancient Walker not getting involved with Solaris present making him not as big of a threat like Mogul and Enerjak (both of which would be 8D with this added scaling in mind).

 

[Brogeefrong]

Archie MW is still 5D and NE is still considered supirior

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

While I agree that he should have a higher dimensional tier, it should be below the Chaos Force and Next Evolution because the Ancient Walkers would have gotten involved otherwise. That's why I think that Solaris in it of itself grants the Archie Continuity and Off Panel cosmology an extra dimensional tier to 8D and 9D respectively.

It's weird because, while he's dimensionally below the NE and Chaos Force, he's powered by the Chaos Emeralds and fought against two Super users. And the Emeralds were used to erase the concept of the Chaos Force during Worlds Collide, and Sonic was going to reverse it entirely had he not been interrupted by Eggman while using Chaos Control. So Solaris is below NE and CF, but has the potency and range to affect two dimensions above himself.

So if anything, Solaris would still get 7/8-D AP and the capacity to affect things two entire dimensional tiers above his own tier

 

[FaceOff81]

It's weird because, while he's dimensionally below the NE and Chaos Force, he's powered by the Chaos Emeralds and fought against two Super users. And the Emeralds were used to erase the concept of the Chaos Force during Worlds Collide, and Sonic was going to reverse it entirely had he not been interrupted by Eggman while using Chaos Control. So Solaris is below NE and CF, but has the potency and range to affect two dimensions above himself.

So if anything, Solaris would still get 7/8-D AP and the capacity to affect things two entire dimensional tiers above his own tier

I can see where your coming from. The thing here is, because he's below the Next Evolution and Chaos Force, this should place his existence as 7D. His AP, is around 9D due to the Super Forms existing and being able to erase the Chaos Force in this case. If anything, here is the revision of scaling:

Multiverse (5D) < Maginaryworld (6D) < Solaris' Existence (7D due to him being Super-Dimensional) < The Next Evolution (8D) < Chaos Force (9D)

In conclusion, after hearing your side, Solaris' Existence is 7D (granting him higher dimensional existence) but has 9D AP due to being able to affect things two dimensional tiers above his own tier. This would also revise the Cosmology of the Archie Continuity and Off Panel to 9D and 10D respectively.

 

[Brogeefrong]

But Maginaryworld isnt 6D

 

[FaceOff81]

But Maginaryworld isnt 6D

Wait what? Why?

 

[Brogeefrong]

Wait what? Why?

Cosmology blog

 

[FaceOff81]

Cosmology blog

Oh okay. Thank you for linking that. Revised scaling:

Multiverse (5D) < Solaris (6D existence due to being Superdimensional but below the Next Evolution and The Chaos Force. Has 8D AP for fighting the Super Forms) < The Next Evolution (7D) < The Chaos Force (8D) < Off Pannel (9D).

 

[Qawsedf234]

D. Those in it of themselves are already beyond time and space through their dimensional tiering so no matter what,

Neither are beyond space or time under the tiering. They occupy a perpendicular space and have a measurable unit of time progression, it just goes differently than the main Archie Sonic.

. The thing here is, because he's below the Next Evolution

Why would he be below NE?

 

[Brogeefrong]

Neither are beyond space or time under the tiering. They occupy a perpendicular space and have a measurable unit of time progression, it just goes differently than the main Archie Sonic.

Why would he be below NE?

So do you think Solaris is just above NE and below the Chaos Force or, he's above both the NE and CF?

 

[Qawsedf234]

So do you think Solaris is just above NE and below the Chaos Force or, he's above both the NE and CF?

Above or equal to NE and physically under CF. Since Solaris would absorb any realm with space and time, meaning it can't scale to CF existence wise but can scale to it AP wise.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Above or equal to NE and physically under CF. Since Solaris would absorb any realm with space and time, meaning it can't scale to CF existence wise but can scale to it AP wise.

So would you agree if the scaling was like this
Multiverse (5D), NE (6D), Solaris' existence (7D), CF (8D), Off panel (9D)

 

[Qawsedf234]

So would you agree if the scaling was like this
Multiverse (5D), NE (6D), Solaris' existence (7D), CF (8D), Off panel (9D)

It would be Multiverse (5D) -> NE (6D) < Solaris (6D) -> CF (7D) -> Off Panel (8D).

Solaris would scale to be a higher dimension than NE, just able to hold it all within its body.

 

[Brogeefrong]

It would be Multiverse (5D) -> NE (6D) < Solaris (6D) -> CF (7D) -> Off Panel (8D).

Solaris would scale to be a higher dimension than NE, just able to hold it all within its body.

What about the Super Dimensional Solaris stuff?

 

[Qawsedf234]

What about the Super Dimensional Solaris stuff?

Super-dimensional and the game quotes have him collaspe the cosmology within himself but he doesn't transcend it. The same would apply to Archie Solaris containing all of space, which would include everything up to NE.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Super-dimensional and the game quotes have him collaspe the cosmology within himself but he doesn't transcend it. The same would apply to Archie Solaris containing all of space, which would include everything up to NE

He was still possibly considered superior tho, by being called a super dimensional being

 

[Qawsedf234]

He was still possibly considered superior tho, by being called a super dimensional being

Superior can be achieved without being uncountably infinite superior.

 

[FaceOff81]

Neither are beyond space or time under the tiering. They occupy a perpendicular space and have a measurable unit of time progression, it just goes differently than the main Archie Sonic.

Why would he be below NE?

Within the Cosmology blog, the Multiverse in it of itself already operates from a 5D perspective. Adding onto how Maginaryworld contains an uncountable infinity of universese each wtihin their own space time continum. So, yes. Maginaryworld operates beyond space and time under tiering. Solaris would be below the Next Evolution because if he transcended higher, The Ancient Walkers would have gotten involved as he would then pose as a threat to The Next Evolution inhabitants and the Chaos Force itself. Wrapping it all up, the definition of him being Superdimensional would apply here (being 6D existence) as he would have collapsed space time in that aspect of the cosmology. The thing is, he wouldn't be in the same tier as The Next Evolution and the Chaos Force thus not breaking the cosmology.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Superior can be achieved without being uncountably infinite superior.

But it got accepted in the game sonic cosmology thread

 

[FaceOff81]

Super-dimensional and the game quotes have him collaspe the cosmology within himself but he doesn't transcend it. The same would apply to Archie Solaris containing all of space, which would include everything up to NE.

Considering that Maginaryworld has their own spacetimes being produced as a byproduct of the dreams/universes being generated. Solaris absorbing that plus the rest of the Normal Multiverse (not including The Next Evolution and The Chaos Force) would allow for the cosmology to still hold even after that. Afterall, having a 6D existence is considered Superdimensional. Thus,

Multiverse and Maginaryworld (5D) < Solaris (6D existence and 8D AP scaling to super forms) < The Next Evolution (7D) < The Chaos Force (8D) < Off Panel (9D)

 

[Qawsedf234]

So, yes. Maginaryworld operates beyond space and time under tiering

No, Maginaryworld operates on a higher order of space-time but is still bound by it and quantified by it.

he would have collapsed space time in that aspect of the cosmology. The thing is, he wouldn't be in the same tier as The Next Evolution

The Next Evolution per the blog has both aspects of space and time. Only the Chaos Force is beyond them.

Within the Cosmology blog,

Also this is Xeno Goku.

 

[Qawsedf234]

But it got accepted in the game sonic cosmology thread

It didn't. Solaris is 5D for collapsing Maginaryworld into himself, not 6D.

 

[FaceOff81]

No, Maginaryworld operates on a higher order of space-time but is still bound by it and quantified by it.


The Next Evolution per the blog has both aspects of space and time. Only the Chaos Force is beyond them.

Also this is Xeno Goku.

Cosmology Blog:

Archie Sonic the Hedgehog's Cosmology (Pre-SGW)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Maginaryworld doesn't operate on a higher order of space-time. It's a 5-D structure that supports an uncountable infinite number of universes that each have their own space-time. It's literally supplying space time to other universes wtihin the multiverse making it above space-time. The Next Evolution details how the Echidnas are able to branch between the space-time reality in the sense of "exceeding to a higher plane of reality where time is irrelevant to them". The "between space-time" is in reference to going from the mortal relam where it does matter and does operate to the higher plane of existence that operates outside of it because space-time is irrelevant. So, yeah The Next Evolution would also be in that tier of existing outside of it as well.