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In the profile for Game Solaris, it's stated that Solaris is possibly 6D for potentially collapsing Illumina and Maginaryworld (both of which are from the Video Game Continuity).
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WE MAKIN IT INTO A HIGHER COSMOLOGY WITH THIS ONE🗣🔥 | Archie Sonic, Solaris and Cosmology additions | 0-0-0
- Thread starter Brogeefrong
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It was more Solaris was referred super-dimensional, despite the existence of Illumina who is 5D herself
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Oh. I was referring to what that power of his is in the context of him usurping those two. I should have clarified that. But you are right nonetheless.
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That's how qualitative superiority works. The area is 5D for containing an infinite amount of 2A spaces, which means it has to be Low 1-C to hold them.
The fact that NE is above it but still has both space and time characteristics explicitly means Maginaryworld also has them. Only the Chaos Force is beyond space and time.
The quote used in the blog is how they're Immortal in the NE. Time is irrelevant to them because it no longer holds sway over them, it's not a qualitative superiority, which isn't accepted until the CF.
Not it's not. Between space and time means it's subjected to both, which is why Chaos Force being outside of Space and Time is notable. It's why Aurora states Knuckles is still limited even while in NE, because he still thinks he has limits and has to get passed that to get to the next level.
It says his range could be 6D if you consider statements a certain way. Solaris' confirmed rating is 5D.
For the comics the most it would warrant would be bumping up Chaos Force and Off Panel but I don't see either being honest.
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Solaris' page has possibly 6D physiology aswell
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for his HDE, his AP is 5D
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Anyways most I see is a 7D AP upgrade. Physiology most I see is 6D. That's my view on it.
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but solaris would be super-dimensional compared to the NE wouldnt he
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While yes the Next Evolution is above Maginaryworld, it operates as a plain of existence where time is not only irrelevant, but also is the final destination after gulfing the bridge between space-time. Maginaryworld operates as a structure for producing an uncountable infinite number space-times within the multiverse making it outside of time as well. Maginaryworld being the structure that produces all of that means it's not bound by space-time. The Next Evolution's structure is a higher dimensional plane of existence where time is irrelevant. How does that give space time characteristics there exactly if time is irrevelant and operates far beyond the 4D scale? In that case, it doesn't making it and Maginaryworld and The Next Evolution. not containing them.
The space-time characteristics of the Next Evolution explain how Knuckles is able to gulf between space-time through him transcending to a higher plain of existence. While it is true that because it no longer holds sway over the Echnidas, the structure itself has to operate outside of space-time in order for it to have Time be considered irrelevant. The transition itself from the mortal world to the higher plane of existence (being The Next Evolution) is what bridging the gulf of space and time is. Once the transition is complete and Knuckles is present wtihin the Next Evolution amongst other Echnidas, time is not only irrelevant, but also is outisde of it.
The transition is yes, but not the Next Evolution itself. That is where time is irrelevant and thus, outside of the operation of space-time.
I do as it makes sense giving the cosmology present. I find it extremely out of character that if Solaris is equal to and/or above the Next Evolution that the Ancient Walkers wouldn't get involved as they certainly did with threats such as Mogul and Enerjak.
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Most I see is a 6D Higher Dimensional Existence with an 8D AP upgrade. It genuinely makes sense narratively and cosmology wise since it doesn't topple over the rest of the cosmology. My view once again follows as such:
Multiverse and Maginaryworld (5D) < Solaris (6D Existence with 8D AP) < The Next Evolution (7D) < The Chaos Force (8D) < Off Panel (9D)
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It is still bound by space and time. The fact that the Chaos Force is the only realm outside of both should tell you all lower realms are beholden to them.
This is your confusion here. Time isn't the 4th dimension, it's just a direction of progression upon an object. A realm can have 4 spatial dimensions and a time dimensions to be 5D, it can have 3 spatial dimensions and 2 time dimensions and be 5D and it can have just 5 progressively superior dimensions to be 5D.
Maginaryworld and NE are bigger than the lower realms but are still spatial in nature and still operate within a temporal axis. The Chaos Force is the only realm outside of both which is why Solaris would be physically below it despite being bigger than NE.
It doesn't. Time being irrelevant can be solely due to time being fluid in that realm or the people in that realm being Immortal.
Who said they didn't or didn't try to? As the other user mentioned Solaris is literally one page in a companion guidebook. It can be strong without breaking the setting.
Also all the Ancient Walkers are dead by Solaris. It's the Neo Walkers at this point.
He can contain NE without being qualitatively superior.
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but with the super-dimensional statement shouldnt it be a possibly qualitatively superior just like how the games have it
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The games don't qualitative superiority, Solaris has HDE, see his AP justification, he is 5D in AP
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His physiology is still possibly 6D, which possibly has QS to the 5D MW
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It's never been stated to be operating within it's own space-time compared to the game version. While they're similar in many ways, the Archie Continuity opeartes entirely on a different scale dimensionally and space-time wise.
Alright......
How exactly do they operate within a temporal axis when they're shown that space-time is either being producing on an uncountable infinite scale along with time being irrelevant? With those in mind, they can't operate within the confinds of space-time.
Time being fluid? Time is irrelevant within that plane of existence. How can it be fluid? Time isn't stagnant either since it's irrelevant. If anything, it being irrelevant in this case means it's outside the confinds of space-time.
We're contrasting Archie's continuity of Solaris with the Game version since that is where the most information is present for Solaris. While they're both extremely similar, they're arguably not the exact same in terms of cosmology and dimensionality wise. Considering that in 06 he was consuming all existing timelines where time would collapse, this would include Maginaryworld since in the game cosmology, Maginaryworld is considered have a 4D structure within its realm. That was really it in terms of cosmology at the time within the games. Within the Archie Continuity, it's a different story since multiple higher dimensions are now present. Hence, he scale Solaris to what he was going to consume within the games compared to just the Archie Continutiy. That means, the Next Evolution and the Chaos Force would be left out of it. Even if you don't want to argue it like that, we see that in previous instances, we see that the Ancient Walkers have had to step in with these cosmological threats that threatened the existence of the Next Evolution and the Chaos Force. With the case of Solaris, we don't know if he even tried to do so. What we can infer is that within the games, he tried absorbing the multiverse plus Maginaryworld and nothing more than that. Given Solaris' description within the Archie continuity, we see he was defeated in a very similar way as he was in 06 with no Chaos Force deities and/or anything involving the Next Evolution being present. Hence, we can't scale Solaris equal or above the Next Evolution and/or the Chaos Force.
If the Neo Walkers took the place as the Ancient Walkers in terms of duties and power, then they would be the ones to get involved as the Ancient Walkers did previously.
He cannot contain the Next Evolution due to being a lower dimensional tier.
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Yes, your point?
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It should be qualitatively superior. Just not superior to the Next Evolution and Chaos Force.
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Because you're not understanding how they contain those zones. They would be 3D+1 which is 4D when considering time. A realm that is 4D+1 would be able to contain and uncountable infinite number of 3D+1 spaces due to possessing an additional axis.
No, the character says time is irrelevant to beings like him (meaning hes not talking about the realm) and Knuckles spirit journey still involved a linear progression of time, just one that operated inconsistently.
NE doesn't transcend time and space, it's literally described as bridging them meaning its connected to both concepts.
I don't see NE being above Solaris still.
He wouldn't be dimensionally smaller in my view.
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Which would make the Normal Multiverse and Maginaryworld 5D as a result just like how the Cosmology blog details. They contain the 4D + 1 due to them containing 4 spatial + 1 Temporal Dimension. Hence, why Maginaryworld is able to produce an uncountable infinite number of 3D+1 spaces and space-times with its existence.
Those beings like him exist in the Next Evolution. As we know, the Next Evolution is a higher plane of existence where beings like him reside. The higher dimensional plane existing in that aspect where time is irrelevant should apply to not only the beings living inside it, but also the higher dimensional existence as well. Knuckles' spirit journey involved him transitioning from the mortal relam to the Next Evolution (aka transitioning from a relam where time is present to a relam where time is irrelevant and doesn't apply whatsoever). That journey is bridging the gulf between space and time not the Next Evolution itself. The Next Evolution operates outside of time due to time being irrelevant for not only the beings that inhabit it, but also in general. Considering that other higher abstract beings residing there are present (i.e. The Ancient and Neo Walkers), them being bound to time breaks their character continuity and cosmology wise. Hence, they're not bound by time.
I do see the Next Evolution being above Solaris since the cosmology being structured the way it is supports it. If Solaris is above it, the entire cosmology crumbles within upon itself and contradicts what has already been established previously.
He would be dimensionally smaller in my view.
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Which means Maginaryworld has both a spatial and temporal element. It's just bigger, but not beyond time or space either.
The context of the quote is Knuckles apologizing making him wait, but then the response is that time is irrelevant to him. That just means he's Immortal, not that time is conceptually non-existent from his perspective.
The fact that time still exists in the realm and it bridges stuff means it can't be beyond it in a qualitative way.
The cosmology blog has them ascend twice into the CF. They wouldn't be in NE. It's why the blog mentions ascending twice is needed.
I'm seeing him as the same or bigger dimensionally but smaller than the Chaos Force.
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While yes it is bigger, it is the relam that is producing the uncountable infinite space-times each with a size of 2-A making it a 5D structure that operates outside the space-time confines.
While yes that is true that he is immortal, it also means that the higher plane of existence he transcended from is a plane where time is irrelevant due to it being placed outside of space-time itself. Time does not exist in that realm. The transcendance that Knuckles went through is where the bridge between space and time is. The Next Evolution being the higher plane and destination of that is the result of the transcendance is where time is nonexistent.
Yes that is true. They did ascend twice. Once to the Next Evolution. Then to the Chaos Force. That I am not denying.
I'm seeing him as smaller dimensionally than the Next Evolution and the Chaos Force. Narratively and cosmology wise speaking, it doesn't make sense if he is just as big or bigger than the Next Evolution.
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It still has both space and time. It's just quantifiably larger than an uncountable infinite number of 3D+1 spaces, which it accomplishs by just being 4D+1 or 5D.
None of the scans in the blog support that NE is outside of either space or time, just that it's a level of transcendence above normal space and that it bridges space and time.
I mean, I think it would. Since it would be absorbing everything not the Chaos Force. Either way the proposed scaling has it be near the top of the food chain and required 2-3 post-harmony Chaos Emerald amped Hedgehogs to defeat.
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The only aspect of having both space and time is producing the uncountable infinite 2-A structures that each contain their own space-time continum. Since Maginaryworld is the one producing it, they don't abide by any confines of space-time.
What is bridging space and time is Knuckles' transcendance from the mortal relam to a higher plane of existence being The Next Evolution. Once that transcedance is complete, time is irrelevant resulting in there being no more time present within The Next Evolution.
It doesn't. Solaris would only be absorbing as far as the Normal Multiverse and Maginaryworld and nothing above that. As I've established earlier, within the Archie Continuity, the cosmology is vastly different with more higher dimensions present. We know for a fact that whenever there is a massive cosmological threat (i.e. Enerjak and Mogul), we see that the Ancient Walkers and by proxy now the Neo Walkers have interviened against that said threat since they were a threat towards the Next Evolution and the Chaos Force. With Solaris' case, it has never been stated nor implied that they interviened when he threatened to consume the Multiverse and by proxy through it's equivalent dimensional status, Maginaryworld. Narratively speaking, it preserves The Ancient Walkers' and The Neo Walkers' purpose with interviening and preventing and/or fighting said cosmological threats. Within the Game Continuity, it also lines up with how far within the cosmology Game Solaris transcended above. Once the Archie continutiy of Solaris transcended, we see that while he does lose to 2-3 Super Formed Hedgeogs, his AP should be similar to them. Hence, why I put Solaris as 6D in terms of Higher Dimensional Existence with 8D AP as they compare to the Super Formed Hedgehogs. This easily lines up with his Game counterpart's scaling as well since the game version of Solaris absorbed up to that point as well.
Scaling:
Multiverse and Maginaryworld (5D) < Solaris once transcended (6D Higher Dimensional Existence with 8D AP scaling to the Super Forms) < The Next Evolution (7D) < The Chaos Force (8D) < Off Pannel (9D)
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Space-time is an uncountable infinite snapshot of a High 3-A (3D) space, which is Low 2-C (4D) since that is the minimum space to contain that amount.
Maginaryworld is a uncountable infinite snapshot of Low 2-C (4D) space, which is Low 1-C (5D) since that is the minimum amount to contain tha space.
In no circumstance would either space be beyond time. It's just a larger space containing a lower space. You're just not really understanding how the Tiering System works.
Time is present, it just isn't relevant to someone who has ascended since they're Immortal.
I don't see it. So I'm just throughly against your proposal.
Other mods can weigh in, but I'm against it (solid AP upgrade is fine though).
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Correction: Maginaryworld is a uncountable infinite snapshot of 2-A structures each with their own space-times above the Normal Multiverese giving it the status of 5D as detailed in the Cosmology Blog. While yes Maginaryworld does contain that space and encompasses the Noraml Multiverse, due to it producing it's own space-times within the structures present, it's outside time as well.
Time isn't present because it is irrelevant along with it not existing due to the transcendance process being the bridge that gulfs between space and time while the Next Evolution itself is the higher dimensional plane and the final destination of the transcendence where time doesn't exist. While yes, them being immortal is a factor in all of this, it isn't the only one.
I do see it hence why I'm arguing it and am against your interpretation. Narratively speaking and cosmology wise it makes sense. Solaris being equal to or above the Next Evolution would crumble the entire cosmology and contradict the purpose of the Ancient Walkers and the Neo Walkers. Even if we were to put Solaris above the Next Evolution, the scaling wouldn't be to different.
Scaling:
The Normal Multiverse and Maginaryworld (5D) < The Next Evolution (6D) < Solaris (7D Higher Dimensional Existence but 8D AP) < The Chaos Force (8D) < Off Panel (9D).
Like I said before, it doesn't work narratively or cosmology wise. Hence, I propose this scaling:
Multiverse and Maginaryworld (5D) < Solaris once transcended (6D Higher Dimensional Existence with 8D AP scaling to the Super Forms) < The Next Evolution (7D) < The Chaos Force (8D) < Off Pannel (9D)
I'll let others weigh in as well since I'm against your interpretation of how to structure of the cosmology here. Of course, I'll keep arguing my points if need be and clarify any questions.
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