The No body vs The "nobody" (Roxas vs Nameless)

[noninho]

Well, cool enough, he's creative enough to pull this off, but is he strong enough to pull this off?
How could he deal with his attacks getting reflected by a tornado or simply defended?
Also how's our friend here against firaga, blizaga, thundaga, aeroga (afaik aero progresses like other magic), and more all +dura neg (I'm surprised he doesn't resist that)+stats amp+damage boost?

 

[KingNanaya]

Well, cool enough, he's creative enough to pull this off, but is he strong enough to pull this off?

more than likely, yeah.

How could he deal with his attacks getting reflected by a tornado or simply defended?

he has Caladbolg II and Gae Bolg. Caladbolg has durability negation and Gae Bolg has a lot.

Also how's our friend here against firaga, blizaga, thundaga, aeroga (afaik aero progresses like other magic), and more all +dura neg (I'm surprised he doesn't resist that)+stats amp+damage boost?

do all of these abilities have dura neg? because if they do, he dodges or something. if they don't, he'll just block with Rho Aias

 

[noninho]

he has Caladbolg II and Gae Bolg. Caladbolg has durability negation and Gae Bolg has a lot.

I'm pretty sure an attack with dura neg gets reflected the same way (not in his direction, the Wind simply "vooshes" the attack away (and attacks him if he's within his range)

do all of these abilities have dura neg? because if they do, he dodges or something. if they don't, he'll just block with Rho Aias

I'm pretty sure they do (I'm an enthusiast, not knowledgeable enough (plz bob come back here ;- to answer ya properly)
Before saying he just dodges, you should check how some of them work (checking a gif or something), because some dodges would put him in a hard situation (yeah, 5km is much but Roxas can deal with that and I'm sure Archer will have problems with his combos)

 

[KingNanaya]

I'm pretty sure an attack with dura neg gets reflected the same way (not in his direction, the Wind simply "vooshes" the attack away (and attacks him if he's within his range)

Gae bolg reverses causality when thrown in order to make it unavoidable.

I'm pretty sure they do

Then he will likely focus on avoiding getting hit.

Before saying he just dodges, you should check how some of them work (checking a gif or something), because some dodges would put him in a hard situation (yeah, 5km is much but Roxas can deal with that and I'm sure Archer will have problems with his combos)

I didn't mean the he would just outright dodge everything as if it were nothing. He has an ability called Eye of The Mind (False) which let's him know of certain things. It's kinda like precog. I'm just saying that he would know to not let himself get hit by something with dura neg.

 

[noninho]

Gae bolg reverses causality when thrown in order to make it unavoidable.

Again: not talking about avoiding, I'm talking about a strong wind who doesn't let anything come through

I didn't mean the he would just outright dodge everything as if it were nothing. He has an ability called Eye of The Mind (False) which let's him know of certain things. It's kinda like precog. I'm just saying that he would know to not let himself get hit by something with dura neg.

Discussing against fate series is annoying and i forgot about it lmao

But I'm pretty sure Roxas could still combo this guy to death, against a "kinda like precog", that is, since Roxas hit fast af with 2 (or more) weapons and tons of magic

But I think I don't have that much knowledge here, i should wait for a more knowledgeable fella to appear here

 

[KingNanaya]

Again: not talking about avoiding, I'm talking about a strong wind who doesn't let anything come through

The spear is in his heart by the time he throws it. Let me see if I can explain it better.

Gae bolg reverses the cause with the effect. It makes so that it changes from "the spear was thrown, so it pierced the heart" to "it pierced the heart, so the spear was thrown". It's unavoidable to servants with lower than B rank luck, as you gain minor reality warping above B rank.

Discussing against fate series is annoying and i forgot about it lmao

Agreed lol

But I'm pretty sure Roxas could still combo this guy to death, against a "kinda like precog", that is, since Roxas hit fast af with 2 (or more) weapons and tons of magic

What do you mean by combo?

 

[Bobsican]

...KH characters are infamous for having endless combos, kinda like a DMC moment.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Bump, i can't perform this endless combos

 

[KingNanaya]

...KH characters are infamous for having endless combos, kinda like a DMC moment.

wouldn't that count as gameplay mechanics?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

wouldn't that count as gameplay mechanics?

It's apparently entirely intended by the game developers and not just something that players randomly figured out.

 

[Bobsican]

It's totally intended and is a consistent aspect of the series

 

[Fezzih_007]

Bump

 

[noninho]

so, wind reflecting the arrows was not dealt with exactly
infinite/specially-long combos also not dealt with
"he'd dodge" not exactly answers the combos+the magic(s) from roxas using dura-neg

that's all i recall, what else Nameless has on his side? (why no-one who's deffending Roxas voting for him and my vote is not counted?)

 

[KingNanaya]

It's apparently entirely intended by the game developers and not just something that players randomly figured out.

huh. neat. how would he counter Gae Bolg?

 

[KingNanaya]

so, wind reflecting the arrows was not dealt with exactly

Probably not. Aside from Caladbolg, which warps space around it, all other arrows get negged most likely.

infinite/specially-long combos also not dealt with

Just don't get hit lmao

that's all i recall, what else Nameless has on his side?

Gae Bolg and Caladbolg are his only valid Wincons I can see.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Btw, not all attacks done by Roxas have Duraneg.

 

[KingNanaya]

Btw, not all attacks done by Roxas have Duraneg.

Cool. Then the ones that don't can be countered by Rho Aias or by sacrificing Broken Phantasms to tank the damage.

 

[noninho]

Btw, not all attacks done by Roxas have Duraneg.

sorry, never played Days, just watched the movie, so idk how that Nil works (and link's broken)

Probably not. Aside from Caladbolg, which warps space around it, all other arrows get negged most likely.

Think it's fair to both sides putting a halt here rn cuz doesnt seem like he uses it immediatelly...but Roxas is really the combo guy so he'd also not immediatelly use it too.

Just don't get hit lmao

lol. ok, please provide evidence he's the dodgy can't-touch-me guy 100%

Gae Bolg and Caladbolg are his only valid Wincons I can see

from what i got, those aren't the stardard equipment for him to get in hand, what about the hits Roxas connects before he thinks of those as a good idea? Also Gae Bolg is said to be of high mana cost, don't think he'd use it very much.

huh. neat. how would he counter Gae Bolg?

if/when he use it, we can surely say Roxas is a dodgy-fast-fighter too

Cool. Then the ones that don't can be countered by Rho Aias or by sacrificing Broken Phantasms to tank the damage.

Please tell me how that broken phantasm(s) work
for Rho Aias, having a comparable AP should be enough to wreck layer by layer (which damages him from what i got from the description), and i take it from the fact that Gaebolg (as an attack of his own) is stated to completely wreck this and the AP diff from them shouldn't be so different

 

[KingNanaya]

lol. ok, please provide evidence he's the dodgy can't-touch-me guy 100%

Twas a jest

if/when he use it, we can surely say Roxas is a dodgy-fast-fighter

Gae Bolg works by reversing cause and effect, changing the order in which the spear is thrown and the spear piercing the heart. The instant the spear is "thrown" is actually the instant the spear "pierces the heart" making it impossible to dodge to dodge for many high ranking servants.

Please tell me how that broken phantasm(s) work

Basically, he can make the weapons he uses one rank higher, but they get destroyed in one hit. He can do this with all of his stored Noble Phantasms.

Think it's fair to both sides putting a halt here rn cuz doesnt seem like he uses it immediatelly...

Eye of The Mind tells him the best course of action for any given situation. He would likely start with Caladbolg.

for Rho Aias, having a comparable AP should be enough to wreck layer by layer (which damages him from what i got from the description), and i take it from the fact that Gaebolg (as an attack of his own) is stated to completely wreck this and the AP diff from them shouldn't be so different

Rho Aias can tank stuff with higher AP, and Gae Bolg has dura neg from my memory.

 

[noninho]

Twas a jest

lmfao, just got hit by Fatefag's zirigidum

Gae Bolg works by reversing cause and effect, changing the order in which the spear is thrown and the spear piercing the heart. The instant the spear is "thrown" is actually the instant the spear "pierces the heart" making it impossible to dodge to dodge for many high ranking servants.

provide examples please? profiles here who got f*cked by this, video, anything. actually, read last point

Basically, he can make the weapons he uses one rank higher, but they get destroyed in one hit. He can do this with all of his stored Noble Phantasms

what would this rank-up actually do? like, guarantee a hit wouldn't hit his 7-layered shield/him but break his weapon instead? how many noble phantasms he has?

Eye of The Mind tells him the best course of action for any given situation. He would likely start with Caladbolg

"With a B-Rank, No Name is capable of calmly analyzing a dangerous battle and decide the best course of action to escape." you actually saying his IC is escaping? wt* lmao
Also, if Roxas doesn't die from Caladbolg hit and hits him, the noble phantasm (from what i understood) that'd be sacrificed for him not to get hit would be Caladbolg, meaning effectivelly Caladbolg'd be of single use.

Rho Aias can tank stuff with higher AP

not indefinetly, and Roxas has a pretty hit-big-numbered combos, that'd eventually wreck his shield

Gae Bolg has dura neg from my memory

only if CRT's done, cuz " Homing Attacks, Regeneration Negation with Gáe Bolg". Archer does not have Dura-neg.



i really feel like "HAHAAA, I'M THE HARDEST DETECTIVE OUT OF ALL", cuz the main problems for Roxas are...solved!

• Gaebolg can be reflected or deflected, its special thing is that if it hits, it'll hurt and cannot be cured exactly
• Caladbolg, as i pointed out above, is effectively one use only if it works...but it doesn't work! "the arrow distorts space itself, showing off the whirlwind in its path", meaning it does its thing based in Spatial Manip, which my boy Roxas resist!
• Before anything is said about i maybe comprehending something wrong, Nameless has a huge problem: he gotta say the full incantation before getting his weapons (according to his Weakness page), meaning he won't have easy access to any weapon, any -bolg nor his 7-layered shield, as Roxas' combat style is relentlesly coming up, and via =speed, leaves no time for him to say the full incantation, meaning he has to count with his 2 swords and things in Standard Equip! And according to his apparent IC and from what you said his 6th sense'd be saying to him, he'd try starting the incantation to try getting the 2 -bolg's we said before, meaning he'd be buffed magical and physically by his swords but no hax is getting accessed today!

c'mon @Fezzih_007 stop being mean and add my vote to OP, pretty please?

 

[KingNanaya]

lmfao, just got hit by Fatefag's zirigidum

provide examples please? profiles here who got f*cked by this, video, anything. actually, read last point

sorry for using the abridged clip, but it's the best I could find. it shows how it works. the spear is thrown, it changes the point when the spear is thrown to when the spear hits the heart, profit.

only if CRT's done, cuz " Homing Attacks, Regeneration Negation with Gáe Bolg". Archer does not have Dura-neg.

Attack Potency: Large Island level+ (Can wound Servants such as Saber and Archer), Small Country level with Soaring Spear that Strikes with Death, ignores conventional durability with Barbed Spear That Pierces With Death

it says it on Gae Bolg's profile.

not indefinetly, and Roxas has a pretty hit-big-numbered combos, that'd eventually wreck his shield

I know. it's something temporary that he can use to block things from long range. He can likely spam project Kanshou and Byakuya to block many of the hits. he's done this before.

what would this rank-up actually do?

it makes the Noble Phantasm better at Noble Phantasming.

like, guarantee a hit wouldn't hit his 7-layered shield/him but break his weapon instead?

I'm not sure if he can use Rho Aias as a Broken Phantasm. someone else would have to answer that. but no, if he could use Rho Aias as a Broken Phantasm, it would likely just be a dura increase.

how many noble phantasms he has?

he can just create them indefinitely in this key if I'm remembering correctly.

"With a B-Rank, No Name is capable of calmly analyzing a dangerous battle and decide the best course of action to escape." you actually saying his IC is escaping? wt* lmao

I was just saying he would know the best course of action, which it does say there.

Also, if Roxas doesn't die from Caladbolg hit and hits him, the noble phantasm (from what i understood) that'd be sacrificed for him not to get hit would be Caladbolg, meaning effectivelly Caladbolg'd be of single use.

First, he'd just make another one to shoot it again. Second, my point about him being able to trade a hit for a Broken Phantasm was for close range, not long range. up close, he can spam project Kanshou and Byakuya, and use them as Broken Phantasms if he needs to tank a harder hit. I'm fairly certain that he uses Caladbolg as a Broken Phantasm often against people, so it would do increased damage.

Gaebolg can be reflected or deflected, its special thing is that if it hits, it'll hurt and cannot be cured exactly

I mean, roxas already resists Death Manip, just not the other stuff. and the chance of him dodging are incredibly slim. he can't block it because dura neg. and if he does try to block it, it's going to hit his heart and kill him.

Caladbolg, as i pointed out above, is effectively one use only if it works...but it doesn't work! "the arrow distorts space itself, showing off the whirlwind in its path", meaning it does its thing based in Spatial Manip, which my boy Roxas resist!

cool. I can concede that.

Before anything is said about i maybe comprehending something wrong, Nameless has a huge problem: he gotta say the full incantation before getting his weapons (according to his Weakness page), meaning he won't have easy access to any weapon, any -bolg nor his 7-layered shield, as Roxas' combat style is relentlesly coming up, and via =speed, leaves no time for him to say the full incantation, meaning he has to count with his 2 swords and things in Standard Equip! And according to his apparent IC and from what you said his 6th sense'd be saying to him, he'd try starting the incantation to try getting the 2 -bolg's we said before, meaning he'd be buffed magical and physically by his swords but no hax is getting accessed today!

this is incorrect. in order to activate Unlimited Blade Works he needs to say the full incantation. He doesn't need to use an incantation to use his projections.

 

[Fezzih_007]

c'mon @Fezzih_007 stop being mean and add my vote to OP, pretty please?

Ok, i Just waiting.

 

[noninho]

it says it on Gae Bolg's profile.

not exactly. "Gáe Bolg: Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death: One of Lancer's two Noble Phantasms utilizing Gáe Bolg." is what is said to do Dura-Neg, which means there's a NP from Lancer who can do it with this skill, not that the weapon do this or Nameless has access to this skill, and i say he doesn't via:
-not being presented as one of his skills in the NPs section in Notable Attacks/Techniques
-not being presented as one of his powers in... Powers and Abilities section (who only states it has Homing Attack and Regen neg, as i presented earlier)
-Not being presented as an "option for his AP" like any Dura-Neg user has, including Gae Bolg's page in Attack Potency section.

Unless a CRT's done, no, he doesn't have access to that.

I know. it's something temporary that he can use to block things from long range. He can likely spam project Kanshou and Byakuya to block many of the hits. he's done this before.

so now i need a quantity of damage that it does to him, cuz from what i understood, each layer that breaks damages him

I'm not sure if he can use Rho Aias as a Broken Phantasm. someone else would have to answer that. but no, if he could use Rho Aias as a Broken Phantasm, it would likely just be a dura increase.

that's not what i meant at all!
what i meant is: from what i understood, this Broken Phantasm thing is giving a rank+ to the weapon but guaranteeing it'll break in 1 hit
what i meant to ask is: it also puts the buffed weapon in front of the attack, guaranteeing that it breaks instead of letting the attack hit Nameless/his shield?

he can just create them indefinitely in this key if I'm remembering correctly.

wow. this needs evidence, please, cuz if its that way, prolly makes Nameless unhitable for Roxas after (/if) the incantation is done

I was just saying he would know the best course of action, which it does say there

"knows the best course of action to escape." it's exactly what's written, meaning his IC is to escape or he knows how to do it pretty well.

First, he'd just make another one to shoot it again. Second, my point about him being able to trade a hit for a Broken Phantasm was for close range, not long range. up close, he can spam project Kanshou and Byakuya, and use them as Broken Phantasms if he needs to tank a harder hit. I'm fairly certain that he uses Caladbolg as a Broken Phantasm often against people, so it would do increased damage.

as i said above, please provide evidence about how many can he produce; yeah, i'm talking about close-range-combat here. Using them as BP wouldn't make them break..? would he do that to his favourite weapons?; Well, Caladbolg is resisted so no need to further talk about it damaging, what i meant for is that he'd use it to attack, Roxas would still be up against him and he'd use it as a BP for tanking one of Roxas' hit and it breaks.

I mean, roxas already resists Death Manip, just not the other stuff. and the chance of him dodging are incredibly slim. he can't block it because dura neg. and if he does try to block it, it's going to hit his heart and kill him.

Not at all, as i said above he doesn't have Dura Neg, and even if it had, dodging homing projectiles is pretty common in KH series so...yeah.

cool. I can concede that.

[insert Joseph Joestar saying nice here]

this is incorrect. in order to activate Unlimited Blade Works he needs to say the full incantation. He doesn't need to use an incantation to use his projections.

"Unlimited Blade Works automatically records every weapon that No Name sees, analyzing their structures and storing them within his internal world, allowing him to instantaneously project them for his own use" is exactly what it says there, mate. Either is another CRT you should do in the profile or you're wrong here mate.
fanfic'ing here: imagine Nameless defeats, idk Riku, and it becomes a Noble Phantasm of his and this guy also shooting Keyblade at people lmao

 

[Fezzih_007]

Unlimited Blade Works automatically records every weapon that No Name sees, analyzing their structures and storing them within his internal world, allowing him to instantaneously project them for his own use" is exactly what it says there, mate. Either is another CRT you should do in the profile or you're wrong here mate.

Wow.

No Name here have a world inside him Full of weapons called Unlimited blade works. To bring this world to the normal world , he does a incantation. He can do this incantation super fast, or just say this one at the time, like. But he can also just bring the weapons that are in the Unlimited blade works to the normal world without the need to do a Full incantation.

Is trought based when he summons the Weapons.

 

[noninho]

No Name here have a world inside him Full of weapons called Unlimited blade works. To bring this world to the normal world , he does a incantation. He can do this incantation super fast, or just say this one at the time, like. But he can also just bring the weapons that are in the Unlimited blade works to the normal world without the need to do a Full incantation.

Is trought based when he summons the Weapons.

"To utilize Unlimited Blade Works, No Name must recite the full incantation, making it possible to interrupt him"
From weakness section

 

[Fezzih_007]

"To utilize Unlimited Blade Works, No Name must recite the full incantation, making it possible to interrupt him"
From weakness section

Unlimeted Blade works being, when he summons the world Full of weapons, not when he project weapons, they are separate things more or less.

 

[noninho]

Unlimeted Blade works being, when he summons the world Full of weapons, not when he project weapons, they are separate things more or less.

please tell me the difference, i couldn't get it from the profile apparently

 

[Fezzih_007]

please tell me the difference, i couldn't get it from the profile apparently

Ok, so Archer here have this thing called a reality marble, that's basicaly a alternate world of his, that represents him. He call this inner world to reality by casting a Incantation.

Now, to create the weapons that he does, he just pull out that world, without needing to bring his inner world to reality.

 

[KingNanaya]

which means there's a NP from Lancer who can do it with this skill, not that the weapon do this or Nameless has access to this skill

there are two "skills" so to speak that utilize Gae Bolg. A Nuke, and the causality one. He can use both.

so now i need a quantity of damage that it does to him, cuz from what i understood, each layer that breaks damages him

I have no clue how damage taken by Rho Aias effect his body

that's not what i meant at all!
what i meant is: from what i understood, this Broken Phantasm thing is giving a rank+ to the weapon but guaranteeing it'll break in 1 hit
what i meant to ask is: it also puts the buffed weapon in front of the attack, guaranteeing that it breaks instead of letting the attack hit Nameless/his shield?

it's not passive, if that's what you're asking. it's something he has to actively do. he need to move in order to do it. he needs to project the weapon, block, and project again. he can do this against characters that are much stronger than him in quick succession.

wow. this needs evidence, please, cuz if its that way, prolly makes Nameless unhitable for Roxas after (/if) the incantation is done

I didn't play Fate/Extra, so I don't know definitively

"knows the best course of action to escape."

not a debunk

yeah, i'm talking about close-range-combat here. Using them as BP wouldn't make them break..? would he do that to his favourite weapons?

he can just make more lol

"Unlimited Blade Works automatically records every weapon that No Name sees, analyzing their structures and storing them within his internal world, allowing him to instantaneously project them for his own use" is exactly what it says there, mate. Either is another CRT you should do in the profile or you're wrong here mate.

the incantation is only for the Reality Marble aspect, not the projection.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Rho Aias is pretty simple, No Name here is more specialed in creating Swords than Shields, so he take more magical energy when doing Shields than Swords, which is not that much, is just the triple of normal sword creation, which already costa basically nothing.

He also need to keep feeding Rho Aias energy, to keep standing attacks, so when the shield breaks a layer, demage Archer body. If the people breaks ALL the layers of Rho Aias, Archer is left with a broken arm and a demaged body.

So basically, to exploit this weakennes, you would need to break the shield fully, because If not, that's not going to do much. One layer don't cause too much demage, but 7 does.

 

[noninho]

Aight, so for now the incon for Nameless is using the correct attack for Gae Bolg, and the incon for Roxas is eventually f*cking his shield and also eventually ending him via keeping a large combo...
right?

 

[Fezzih_007]

He would need a big attack to destroy Rho Aias, since the thing have a enormous durability.

Bypassing that would require a enormous attack. Archer can also just stop feeding the Shield energy so he don't get hit anymore.

 

[Fezzih_007]

And Gae Bolg is complicated, because is not very In-character for him to try, but he would use, If Roxas is not going down só easy.

 

[noninho]

He would need a big attack to destroy Rho Aias, since the thing have a enormous durability.

Bypassing that would require a enormous attack. Archer can also just stop feeding the Shield energy so he don't get hit anymore.

if so, then Nameless would start getting hit by the huge numbered combo from Roxas
Roxas may not AP stomp (i don't even know the AP for both, itd be nice to know) but being comparable to it and hitting a **** ton of times would wreck it, i'm sure.

And Gae Bolg is complicated, because is not very In-character for him to try, but he would use, If Roxas is not going down só easy.

Oh but THAT changes a **** ton of this fight. if isn't IC for him to immediately put those shields on, Roxas has a f*ck ton of things he can do until them
if that escaping-6th-sense don't call for those shields right away like ur saying, at least a huge amout of damage can be outputed before it comes (IMO enough to kill)

 

[Fezzih_007]

...you confusing again what things is...
I suppose is my fault "sigh"

Ok, Rho Aias is the Shield, which he pretty much use In-character to defend himself pretty often.

Gae Bolg is the Spear that Roxas don't have a answer, which If No Name uses, he wins. Which is the one that is not so In-character.

And getting No Name in a combo is gonna bê hard, since he kinda more skilled than Roxas in Swordplay.

 

[KingNanaya]

Oh but THAT changes a ***** ton of this fight. if isn't IC for him to immediately put those shields on

he uses Rho Aias to block projectiles in character. he will not start with Gae Bolg, the causality rewriting spear, in character, but will use it if he notices his staples (Kanshou and Byakuya, Caladbolg, Hrunting, and the like) don't work.

 

[noninho]

oh sh*t, my bad i'm starting to get confused with the names.

 

[KingNanaya]

oh sh*t, my bad i'm starting to get confused with the names.

happens to the best of us

 

[Fezzih_007]

What about we Just call "purple shield" and "Red Spear"?

 

[noninho]

anyway, good thing i'm not an official supporter for KH, my arguments are kinda lackin