Fate/Extra Mythological Mystic Code/Root of the Beginning Revisions and Scaling

[Reppuzan]

While we're on the topic of BB, I thought I'd make this thread regarding my long-held issues with the current Fate/Extra profiles.

At the moment, Nero, Tamamo, and everyone's favorite Archer aren't scaled for fighting Kiara Sessyoi despite having the exact same feats as Gilgamesh.

Last I remember, this was because "this wasn't consistent" with their previous feats and the fact that we didn't know how they got back from the Horsehead Nebula.

Well, I found some translated statements from the game on Spacebattles:

Nero:

"ÒüåÒéÇ´╝üÒéêÒüÅÕêåÒüïÒéëÒü¼Òüî"

Umu! I surpassed the speed of light!

Tamamo:

µÖéÚûôÒü«ÚÇåÞíîÒééÒü¬ÒéôÒü«ÒüØÒü«ÒÇüÚª¼ÚᡵÿƒÚø▓ÒüïÒéëÚèǵ▓│þ│╗Òü¥ÒüºþäíÒü½þƒ¡þ©«´╝üÒüôÒéîÒüîÒé╝Òâ¡ÞÀØÚøóµüïµäøÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÒééÒü«ÒüºÒüÖ´╝ü

The reversal of time is nothing special as well, just reduce to zero the distance from the Horsehead Nebula to this galaxy. This is called zero distance love!

Archer:

ÒééÒüíÒÇüÕàëÒéêÒéèµù®ÒüÅÚúøÒéôÒüºÒüìÒü¥ÒüùÒüƒ´╝ü

Of course, I flew faster than light!

So within five minutes of Kiara's monologue, all three of these Servants came back from the Horsehead Nebula 1,500 Light Years away. Although Tamamo used hax to get back, both Nero and Archer simply stated that they flew at FTL speeds (which would actually amount to roughly 158 Million C).

Hence they would at the very least get the travel speed upgrade, but given that they did so under their own power and not through a Ship of Light like Gil I think this would apply to combat speed.

Then there's the issue of AP. Shouldn't all the Playable Servant scale if they all did the exact same thing? It's odd to have a key that only indicates a change in speed even though they faced monumentally more powerful foes.

What do you all think?

 

[LazyHunter]

They should have the travel speed upgrade.

I honestly don't know why they don't have the AP scaled when their Durabilities are.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

If accepted, i can go along with this.

Also, the AP should also be used since otherwise, i find the use of such key pointless on pages like Archers if it's never going to be used. Either we complete it or take it off.

I'm only taking either option.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

This has been bugging me for a while as well. Though i have to note that Tamamo, Nero and Emiya do have the MFTL+ travel speed scaling on their profiles, and Nero and Emiya have their durabilities at Large Planet level with the Mythological Mystic Code. So we really just need to adjust their AP and Tamamo's durability.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@NEH: So you're on the side of having them get the AP for their 5-A stats, right?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Yes.

 

[Reppuzan]

@NEH

Do you think it should be travel or combat speed?

I think it very odd that cosmic level beings would just have that as travel speed when they can also fight BB, who has multiple SoL and FTL statements.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Hm, i'm not sure, actually. Having BB at FTL might raise a few problems. I'll have to check how BB time-traveled in the CCC event again to be sure. If she did it by speed, then fine, but if it was hax, i'm afraid she won't get any scaling from this, and the Extra Servants will have to stay with their current reaction speeds.

 

[Reppuzan]

@NEH

I thought it was Meltlilith who time traveled by using her Virgin Razor - Palladion combo with Passionlip?

Also, why would this be a problem?

 

[ALRF]

Sorry to butt in but the Nero text "ÒüåÒéÇ´╝üÒéêÒüÅÕêåÒüïÒéëÒü¼Òüî" doesn't have any light statement....at least from my knowledge of japanese.

The other two thought are correct.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Meltlilith did it first, but after Kiara reveals herself and lolstomps the protagonist's party, BB brings everyone back in time (including herself of course) so they can properly prepare for the fight and debuff her to hell. Though i don't remember if BB was already in the past and used hax to bring them back or if she went at the same time as them, which is why i'm searching for that specific scene.

It would be a problem because she wouldn't need to use hax if she could just fly her way there.

 

[Reppuzan]

@ALRF

Sorry, I should have posted the complete exchange. I believe it's more an affirmative to the question Kiara gave her.

ÕàëÒéêÒéèÚǃÒüÅÚúøÒéôÒüºÒüìÒüƒÒü¿ÒüºÒéé´╝ü´╝ƒ

Are you able to fly faster than light?

ÒüåÒéÇ´╝üÒéêÒüÅÕêåÒüïÒéëÒü¼ÒüîÒÇü

Of course! I grasped it skillfully!

Or something along those lines according to the dictionaries I've been consulting.

 

[ALRF]

Ah yeah the statement of being faster than light is true here ^.^

 

[Reppuzan]

@NEH

FTL travel doesn't always equate to time travel, unless I'm misunderstanding your statement.

She also has other SoL statements:

Even though I managed to pass through the imaginary number space at the speed of light, a huge wall now stands before our devilish heroine BB-chan! It's a perfectly spherical spirit particle defense wall that cuts through eight dimensions. 404 light-years. The distance between the seventh layer and the center.

This last barrier was actually stretched to an infinite distance.

This is the borderline that lies between the seventh layer and Moon Cell Nucleus. Virtual Spiritrons are made of light, and it's warned that at the speed of light it would take 404 years to get past this border and to the computer addresses which lie beyond. This essentially communicates "that address doesn't exist" to anyone/anything attempting to pass. It's actually an infinite distance that cannot be covered even if you try for centuries.

 

[Promestein]

I'm fine with this. Always was bothered by the AP thing.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

@NEH
FTL travel doesn't always equate to time travel, unless I'm misunderstanding your statement.

It does in the digitalized space the CCC event took place in. That's how Meltlilith went back in the first place. Anyway, i read the scene again and BB went back with hax, not speed, so i say no FTL for her. SoL is fine, though.

 

[Reppuzan]

@NEH

What about fighting the Player Characters Servants? Wouldn't she at least scale to them?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

No, i think they would be the ones scaling from her SoL feats. For reaction speed, that is.

 

[Reppuzan]

@NEH

Why would that be the case if they ran back on their own power?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

That's travel speed. I said they would scale to her reaction speed.

 

[Reppuzan]

@NEH

My question is, if they were travelling at tremendously fast speeds and had enough control to stop within a few feet of their Master in order to stay between their Master and Kiara, wouldn't it scale to reactions?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Huh, i actually hadn't thought of that. Yes, that would scale to their reactions.

 

[Reppuzan]

Bump.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Kind of hoping this passes. Else i'm gonna personally delete off those like Archer's Moon Cell key stat...and whoever else has it even though it's likely just him and one other at the least...

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

I'm fine with this as well

 

[Schnee_One]

Seems reasonable

 

[Reppuzan]

So, just so everyone is clear, the revisions I want to implement are:

5-A AP and Durability Nero, Archer, and Tamamo with Massively FTL+ speed outright.

Is everyone okay with this?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Yup

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Just to make sure, MFTL+ travel and reaction speed?

If yes then I agree with this.

 

[ALRF]

Ditto

 

[Reppuzan]

@Swagpack

Pretty much. Since they ran in at full speed, stepped right between Kiara and the player and started fighting after a short monologue.

Come to think of it, for fighting BB, should we give them At least Speed of Light combat speed?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Light speed combat speed, MFTL+ travel and reaction speed?

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Well, considering BB is so wierd when it comes to speed, I think that would be reasonable. She does state she is capable of that. If I'm not mistaken she crossed that 404 lightyears distance by going SoL, after tricking the Moon Cell. So SoL seems to be the very least even though it didn't take her 404 years, but she and time interact in a strange way.

That would scale to Gilgamesh as well. He would be MFTL+ in travel speed and at least SoL in combat speed.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Would Kiara by chance scale to this?

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Would Kiara by chance scale to this?

Dammit lol. Since she fights those servants, I think so? Do we have to scale anyone else from Kiara then? Would any other character from CCC be affected by this scaling?

 

[Reppuzan]

@SwagPack

Yeah, she fights the same Servants and absorbs BB and the other Alter Egos.

The only others I imagine scaling from this are Saver, Amaterasu, and Archetype: Earth.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I would assume that she could seeing as she fights these four servants so...

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Okay, we can all agree that the AP and Durability is absolutely fine. 5-A for every playable servant.

You suggested that those three servants have MFTL+ travel and reaction speed, considering they can accurately land within a few feet from their master while traveling at that speed. Their combat speed should not be scaled to that and should be SoL?

Also, since they've done it through their speed alone, should we assume that Gilgamesh can do the same, but only chooses to use his fancy stuff to show off? Even if this isn't the case, his combat speed should be adjusted (He fights the same characters as they do), as well as Kiara's and everyone else who might scale.

 

[Reppuzan]

I should have mentioned Gil earlier but yes he would scale for fighting the same characters.

So 5-A SoL Gil with Massively FTL+ Reactions and Travel Speed.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

@Repp

Just explain this to me. Archer and Nero say they managed to fly faster than light.

High flight speed logically requires similar reaction speed in order to manoeuvre when approaching different objects.

As such, we have generally assumed that the characters' regular reaction or combat speeds are roughly equivalent to their flight speeds, unless this is clearly contradicted.


Are we sure that their combat speed can't be the same as their flight speed? It is a huge difference between SoL and MFTL+.