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A battle of the red and white heroes. (EMIYA vs Dante)

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Never expected EMIYA to fare so well against Dante, but the arguments in his favor makes a lot of sense. More so that his defense is so good that, with odds stacked against him, was able to fight Herakles, the guy who is the posterboy for being angry solo man, to the point that he wished he was sane to fully enjoy it.
 
When the thickest boy in Greece looks past the undiluted clouds of madness to compliment you, you know you are a big deal.

Though

"Baseline <<<< BB <<<< Kiara/Kama < MMC Emiya"

Imsorrybutwhatisthisforkery.

The only reason Kiara doesn't punch everyone in the dick without a second thought, Gil included, was BB and the other Sakuras she had chomped on were restraining her from inside. And even then, you get a fight rather than one shooting her. All of the Servants with the power of Origin CERTAINLY aren't above Kiara.
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
I think we've already established that Kiara is not above BB and not above the servants facing her.
Click to expand...
There should be a thread about Nasuverse Low 2C scaling chain already, so we can finally agree on how is it.
 
It would be much easier to agree on what's actually the case if CCC was localized like the previous installment, no idea why they decided not to. Anyways it looks like Dante owes EMIYA some pizza.
 
Managements said:
It would be much easier to agree on what's actually the case if CCC was localized like the previous installment, no idea why they decided not to. Anyways it looks like Dante owes EMIYA some pizza.
Click to expand...
(stares at Melt's crotch and Pass's boobs) anyways, has grace ended yet?
 
Yeah, we are well aware. The issue is that, under equalization, Dante is now using Nasuverse rules since his magic's rules are blatantly undefined. Which means he's using mana, and although he likely has an actual boatload of it, he can still run low.

From what I can tell, the issue is that Emiya can play defensively against Dante with little effort. After all, a similar, albeit smaller gap existed between him and Heracles in the Fate route of Fate/stay night, and while Emiya was weakened and unable to use either UBW or his higher level projections, he managed to kill Heracles 6 times. Without support from a master, without his trump card, and while injured.

I figured Dante's arsenal and larger AP difference would make this a much more even fight, but Emiya is extremely skilled at playing defense against far stronger foes. And by the time UBW is able to go up, he's either been fighting Dante from range for god knows how long, or fighting him CQC for a short while, both exhausting Dante, which we know is one of Dante's massive weaknesses.

By the time UBW goes up, Dante has been either pelted by high level ranged projectiles, or he's been fighting someone he just can't hit at CQC. Both would force him into DT, or even SDT, likely around the time Emiya pulls UBW. But then that means it's all over, because UBW can just do this with everything Emiya has. I don't think Dante has a proper response to sword rain of that level. Vergil is one deal, but this is quite literally thousands of times better.

When I made this I was mildly convinced that Dante would win because of his amps and SDT, but I forgot how good Emiya was at playing defense. By the time Emiya stops playing defense, Dante doesn't have a true answer.

Between Emiya's adaptability, his defensive skill, and UBW's quality, I'd say this match reach a pretty safe conclusion.
 
The gap between EMIYA and Herc was actually pretty massive as Well, since Herc can one shot EMIYA with anything. And the AP gap is reduced to nothing the moment he decides to copy Devil Sword Dante.
 
I do not believe verse equalization works that way. You can assume he has mana, but not that he tires just like mages in Nasuverse do. Dante still has his absurd stamina and ability to recover quick.

@ThisIsMySwagPack

Where and when? With what proof? You could actually annex that instead of saying "it was established". Saying BB was weakened because Moon Cell shenanigans and equaling her to Kiara because she and the others were holding her back from inside doesn't sound like good reasoning to me.
 
In the thread where we discussed the tier 2 upgrade. Basically, there is no real indication that Kiara is directly stronger than BB. The whole idea came from Kiara absorbing BB, but that is really due to circumstances. First, BB was just defeated by Hakuno and the Moon Cell broke free from BB, thus she lost quite a bit of her power. Then Kiara came and sneak attacked BB and absorbed her. And still, even with the power of the Moon Cell, a dying BB was able to bring her down.

Also, BB has so many goddess inside her, including Tiamat that there is no way she is weaker than Kiara. On Goetia's page it says that he should be comparable to Tiamat, but also stronger than Mara and Kiara. And Tiamat is technically not even the strongest goddess that BB has within herself.

During the fight against Kiara, I haven't noticed anything that implies the Servant is having trouble fighting her.
 
I am not sure where this distorted idea came from. You can just ask Ram, the entire reason Kiara is combatable is because she's being ****** from from the inside by BB and the others, her usurping BB has nothing to do with the actual reasoning. If it wasn't for the Sakuras doing that, the Origin powered Servants that can actually combat BB wouldn't pose any actual threat to Kiara.

I really don't see the number of goddesses as anything consequential. And what does Goetia being stronger than Kiara have to do with anything? Kiara leaves it quite clear, her strong point isn't AP, it's her mind haxing shenanigans. She says as much in the very quote that has her claim Goetia is stronger.

Still, this is too much derailing. Is best not to continue this here.
 
I cannot believe that someone actually said that EMIYA can copy weapons to their fullest extent. Hell to the no.

EMIYA's biggest weakness is that he cannot copy to the fullest extent ANY weapon that he projects. There are ALWAYS imperfections in the value of every aspect of his tracing, and the stronger the weapon, the greater the amount of imperfections. I don't know how this affects the outcome of the match, nor do I care, but I want to clear this up right now.

In terms of weapon quality, magical potency, skill and technique quality, history tracing and statistic mimicry, every aspect of EMIYA's projections are notably inferior to the original.
 
I don't believe it was said that he can copy things to their fullest extent. The main thing I remember is that Emiya is at least comparable, but inferior, to the skill and AP of the weapon's wielder. Which should still be enough for the arguments given.
 
Ehh, I'm not voting yet, it seems this one needs more discussion, if the votes were based on Emiya copying things perfectly, they don't count anymore going by Solacis post
 
The arguments still stand since most were made assuming he didn't copy DSD. And if he did, it would have enough power to still make it more even.

So I mean, ehhhh...? They still work.
 
Then this can be added tho, just ask a mod to unlock Dante's profile

It's nice to see Dante having good opponents in Low 2-C
 
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