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Nasuverse Servant AP/Durability is a bit weird at the moment.

The A Rank Problem
Currently all the scaling stems from Numeral Gawain being able to clash evenly with Arondight. However, this happens while the two of them are living. In fact, Gawain and Lancelot never even fight as servants.

It isn't as big of a deal because Artoria says with Rin as a master she has the same strength that she did when alive. This in turn scales to other Knights of the Round. However, I have an even better solution than what we currently have.

The A++ Rank Solution
The solution is quite simple and will keep everyone's eventual scaling to Gawain. In Fate/Extra, Gawain is treated as an absolutely unbeatable opponent when he is buffed by Numeral of the Saint. This is stated numerous times throughout the story. Something notable about this fight against Gawain is the Playable servant can be a certain No Name Archer. As the penultimate fight in Fate/Extra, Hakuno's Servants have access to their Noble Phantasms and all of their skills. Archer's Noble Phantasm is a E~A++ in Fate/Extra. Numeral Gawain can remain unscratched even against Archer going all out. Hakuno views the battle as unwinnable if they can't find a solution to Numeral of the Saint. Hakuno even goes so far as to say it is beyond the two of them to scratch Gawain's armor. Numeral Gawain should scale above A++ Noble Phantasms, which are currently above 2.9 Teratons. As such Base Gawain scales to 1/3rd of that at 962 Gigatons, in the upper limits of High 6-C+.

This means 6-C Servants get an upgrade to the same High 6-C+ value as Base Gawain.

The Broken A Rank Alternative
First thing's first. Archer's Caladbolg II and Hrunting are A Rank Broken Phantasms. This means they are equal to A+ Rank Noble Phantasms as that is how Broken Phantasms work. Archer's Projection ranks down a Noble Phantasm, and then to compensate he breaks the Noble Phantasm ranking it up. As such, all Emiya pages that have these weapons should be updated to use the A+ value as opposed to the A value for Hrunting and Caladbolg II.

There may be some issues with scaling to 1/3rd the A++ NP value, one of which being we don't know which NPs in UBW is A++ and as such it's unclear if that NP was even used against Gawain. As an alternative, we can scale Numeral Gawain as remaining unscratched against Archer's A Rank Broken Phantasms like Hrunting and Caladbolg, which we know Archer has and uses within Fate/Extra. This ends up with Numeral Gawain scaling to the 2.9 Teraton value above and Base Gawain scaling to the 962 Gigatons.

Conclusion
Now, here's why I think Gawain should be scaling to the A++ rank NPs instead of the A rank NPs. Gawain is treated as virtually invincible with Numeral active. Even without knowing the extent of UBW it still scales relative to Gate of Babylon. We have seen Archer use UBW in the same way as Gilgamesh in Fate/Stay Night and in Fate/Extella. Extella even shows that Archer is capable of replicating Excalibur (albeit an "image" of it) and Excalibur Galatine. In conclusion, I believe with; Extella's showings, the rank of UBW, and the comparability to GoB, Numeral Gawain should scale to Low 6-B with Base Gawain scaling to 1/3rd that at High 6-C+.

Furthermore, Noble Phantasms at C Rank are noted to be equal to A Rank attacks. Therefore any Noble Phantasm above C Rank is more powerful than an A Rank attack. As the difference is only 1.03x, I'd suggest scaling these Noble Phantasms to baseline Low 6-B.

tl;dr
Numeral Gawain is completely unbeatable against Hakuno's servants.
Numeral Gawain should scale to the A++ value through No Name's NP Unlimited Blade Works which is E~A++. Low 6-B (2.9 Teratons)
Archer's Hrunting and Caladbolg II should be upgraded to the A+ value of Low 6-B (2.9 Teratons)
Alternatively, Numeral Gawain should scale above A Rank Broken Phantasms value through No Name's Hrunting and Caladbolg. Low 6-B (2.9 Teratons)
Regular Gawain, and thus all other servants, should scale to 1/3rd the agreed value. High 6-C+ (962 Gigatons)
Noble Phantasms above C Rank should also upscale from the above value to baseline Low 6-B (1 Teraton)

Agree (A++) -
@Marshadow29, @Paul_Frank, @RetroWeeeb, @Maxeez, @Artorimachi_Meteoraft, @Kisaragi_Megumi, @Violetcyanide, @Migue79, @Violatas
Agree (A+) -
Neutral -
Opposed -
 
Last edited:
Nasuverse Servant AP/Durability is a bit weird at the moment.

The A Rank Problem
Currently all the scaling stems from Numeral Gawain being able to clash evenly with Arondight. However, this happens while the two of them are living. In fact, Gawain and Lancelot never even fight as servants.

It isn't as big of a deal because Artoria says with Rin as a master she has the same strength that she did when alive. This in turn scales to other Knights of the Round. However, I have an even better solution than what we currently have.

The A++ Rank Solution
The solution is quite simple and will keep everyone's eventual scaling to Gawain. In Fate/Extra, Gawain is treated as an absolutely unbeatable opponent when he is buffed by Numeral of the Saint. This is stated numerous times throughout the story. Something notable about this fight against Gawain is the Playable servant can be a certain No Name Archer. As the penultimate fight in Fate/Extra, Hakuno's Servants have access to their Noble Phantasms and all of their skills. Archer's Noble Phantasm is a E~A++ in Fate/Extra. Numeral Gawain can remain unscratched even against Archer going all out. Hakuno views the battle as unwinnable if they can't find a solution to Numeral of the Saint. Hakuno even goes so far as to say it is beyond the two of them to scratch Gawain's armor. Numeral Gawain should scale above A++ Noble Phantasms, which are currently above 2.9 Teratons. As such Base Gawain scales to 1/3rd of that at 962 Gigatons, in the upper limits of High 6-C+.

This means 6-C Servants get an upgrade to the same High 6-C+ value as Base Gawain.

The Broken A Rank Alternative
First thing's first. Archer's Caladbolg II and Hrunting are A Rank Broken Phantasms. This means they are equal to A+ Rank Noble Phantasms as that is how Broken Phantasms work. Archer's Projection ranks down a Noble Phantasm, and then to compensate he breaks the Noble Phantasm ranking it up. As such, all Emiya pages that have these weapons should be updated to use the A+ value as opposed to the A value for Hrunting and Caladbolg II.

There may be some issues with scaling to 1/3rd the A++ NP value, one of which being we don't know which NPs in UBW is A++ and as such it's unclear if that NP was even used against Gawain. As an alternative, we can scale Numeral Gawain as remaining unscratched against Archer's A Rank Broken Phantasms like Hrunting and Caladbolg, which we know Archer has and uses within Fate/Extra. This ends up with Numeral Gawain scaling to the 2.9 Teraton value above and Base Gawain scaling to the 962 Gigatons.

Conclusion
Now, here's why I think Gawain should be scaling to the A++ rank NPs instead of the A rank NPs. Gawain is treated as virtually invincible with Numeral active. Even without knowing the extent of UBW it still scales relative to Gate of Babylon. We have seen Archer use UBW in the same way as Gilgamesh in Fate/Stay Night and in Fate/Extella. Extella even shows that Archer is capable of replicating Excalibur (albeit an "image" of it) and Excalibur Galatine. In conclusion, I believe with; Extella's showings, the rank of UBW, and the comparability to GoB, Numeral Gawain should scale to Low 6-B with Base Gawain scaling to 1/3rd that at High 6-C+.

Furthermore, Noble Phantasms at C Rank are noted to be equal to A Rank attacks. Therefore any Noble Phantasm above C Rank is more powerful than an A Rank attack. As the difference is only 1.03x, I'd suggest scaling these Noble Phantasms to baseline Low 6-B.

tl;dr
Numeral Gawain is completely unbeatable against Hakuno's servants.
Numeral Gawain should scale to the A++ value through No Name's NP Unlimited Blade Works which is E~A++. Low 6-B (2.9 Teratons)
Archer's Hrunting and Caladbolg II should be upgraded to the A+ value of Low 6-B (2.9 Teratons)
Alternatively, Numeral Gawain should scale above A Rank Broken Phantasms value through No Name's Hrunting and Caladbolg. Low 6-B (2.9 Teratons)
Regular Gawain, and thus all other servants, should scale to 1/3rd the agreed value. High 6-C+ (962 Gigatons)
Noble Phantasms above C Rank should also upscale from the above value to baseline Low 6-B (1 Teraton)

Agree (A++) -
Agree (A+) -
Neutral -
Opposed -
i agree, however noble phantasm ranks are arbitrary and wonky as ****, and really shouldnt be used to scale servants in the first place
 
But my based 6-C tier, rip

In all seriousness uh, I guess there's not anything wrong with the A++ thing, that is sorta in fact, the upper limit of UBW, Archer, who is run ragged after doing absolutely nothing to Gawain, not even scratching his armor, concludes he quite literally can not win as none of his stuff is able to damage Gawain as he just saw

During the point that fight takes place, you do have UBW, Hrunting, Caladbolg II and everything, so I guess it's fine, I don't see any issues off the top of my head so I guess I agree with the A++ scaling
 
I agree as well, although I do have one question,
First thing's first. Archer's Caladbolg II and Hrunting are A Rank Broken Phantasms. This means they are equal to A+ Rank Noble Phantasms as that is how Broken Phantasms work. Archer's Projection ranks down a Noble Phantasm, and then to compensate he breaks the Noble Phantasm ranking it up
In FGO, Beowulf's Hrunting is considered an A-rank NP, therefore shouldn't Archer's downgraded version be a B-rank with the Broken NP returning it to an A-rank, not an A+? Or am I misremembering something.
 
I agree as well, although I do have one question,

In FGO, Beowulf's Hrunting is considered an A-rank NP, therefore shouldn't Archer's downgraded version be a B-rank with the Broken NP returning it to an A-rank, not an A+? Or am I misremembering something.
FGO NP rankings are Bogus half the time, don't mind them too much Archers NP ranking is E-A despite being E-A++ everywhere else Siegfried gets to EX but its A+ in Apocrypha Mats etc...
 
I agree as well, although I do have one question,

In FGO, Beowulf's Hrunting is considered an A-rank NP, therefore shouldn't Archer's downgraded version be a B-rank with the Broken NP returning it to an A-rank, not an A+? Or am I misremembering something.
Yeah I noticed that as well, but we currently count it as an A Rank Broken Phantasm on Archer's page. I can remove it from OP if it causes a problem though.
 
Yeah I noticed that as well, but we currently count it as an A Rank Broken Phantasm on Archer's page. I can remove it from OP if it causes a problem though.
I wouldn't call it a problem as it doesn't effect anything either way, just something I'd thought I'd point out. Everything else looks good
 
OP makes sense. Agreed.
There's been a hefty amount of verse wide revisions lately for the verse.
Have fun applying these
Luckily none of the justifications need to really change, just all the 6-C stats for servants get upgraded to High 6-C+. Ah, I have to remove all the 6-C+ A Rank NPs and references to the Bunyan calc too. There's just a lot of pages I'll need to go through to implement the changes.
 
Luckily none of the justifications need to really change, just all the 6-C stats for servants get upgraded to High 6-C+. Ah, I have to remove all the 6-C+ A Rank NPs and references to the Bunyan calc too. There's just a lot of pages I'll need to go through to implement the changes.
Lol feel the pain mwahahaha(Good luck tho I remember applying all those new speed rating it was a bitch)
 
Numeral Gawain is completely unbeatable against Hakuno's servants.
Numeral Gawain should scale to the A++ value through No Name's NP Unlimited Blade Works which is E~A++. Low 6-B (2.9 Teratons)
Archer's Hrunting and Caladbolg II should be upgraded to the A+ value of Low 6-B (2.9 Teratons)
Alternatively, Numeral Gawain should scale above A Rank Broken Phantasms value through No Name's Hrunting and Caladbolg. Low 6-B (2.9 Teratons)
Regular Gawain, and thus all other servants, should scale to 1/3rd the agreed value. High 6-C+ (962 Gigatons)
Noble Phantasms above C Rank should also upscale from the above value to baseline Low 6-B (1 Teraton)
This scaling is shitty.
Yeah agree.
 
If the knowledge members of the verse think the scaling is ok then I guess it's fine. I don't know about the verse so I can't say much
 
Since all the profiles would need to be edited then it we can be efficient and also apply the speed and ls upgrade to all the profiles that still need to be changed. I can help applying things if wanted, just tell me.
 
Alright, I can go ahead and start making changes to the profiles. I would very much appreciate the help.
 
I was working on Gawain's justifications. Should it be

Large Island level+ (He is 1/3 as strong as his Numeral of the Saint Form), Small Country level with Excalibur Galatine (As an A+ Ranked Noble Phantasm, it should be comparable to Siegfried's A+ Ranked Noble Phantasm) | Small Country level (Remained unscratched fighting No Name going all out, who has an A++ Rank Noble Phantasm), higher with Excalibur Galatine (Is much more powerful than before)

Or

Large Island level+ (Can harm those who can harm him), Small Country level with Excalibur Galatine (As an A+ Ranked Noble Phantasm, it should be comparable to Siegfried's A+ Ranked Noble Phantasm) | Small Country level (Is three times stronger), higher with Excalibur Galatine (Is much more powerful than before)
And then his durability has the justifications of being unscratched against No Name?
 
I was working on Gawain's justifications. Should it be
Personally I would go with the first one as it makes it clear the stats are due to downscaling from NOS rather than upscaling, as the second one somewhat implies. Plus, more people read the AP justification than durability, so any important scaling should be there
 
I was working on Gawain's justifications. Should it be

Large Island level+ (He is 1/3 as strong as his Numeral of the Saint Form), Small Country level with Excalibur Galatine (As an A+ Ranked Noble Phantasm, it should be comparable to Siegfried's A+ Ranked Noble Phantasm) | Small Country level (Remained unscratched fighting No Name going all out, who has an A++ Rank Noble Phantasm), higher with Excalibur Galatine (Is much more powerful than before)

Or

Large Island level+ (Can harm those who can harm him), Small Country level with Excalibur Galatine (As an A+ Ranked Noble Phantasm, it should be comparable to Siegfried's A+ Ranked Noble Phantasm) | Small Country level (Is three times stronger), higher with Excalibur Galatine (Is much more powerful than before)
And then his durability has the justifications of being unscratched against No Name?
I'd go with the former for sure
 
I already did all the casters and I'm in the middle of the riders, but noticed that while you are updating the tier of servant you aren't touching the LS which got upgraded to Class M due to Jeanne calc but wasn't updated until now because Migue forgot.
 
I already did all the casters and I'm in the middle of the riders, but noticed that while you are updating the tier of servant you aren't touching the LS which got upgraded to Class M due to Jeanne calc but wasn't updated until now because Migue forgot.
I didn't notice that. I just finished all of the Saber, Archer, Lancer, and Extra servants on the F/GO page. I'm taking a break and then I'll go back and add that change.

Except the locked pages.
 
I'm currently writing a list of pages that need to be unlocked, will post it later in the all purpose thread.

Also, now that you said the word Extra I remebered something, what should be done with Playable Caster (Tamamo-no-Mae) second key? Since her key say that she is as strong as 7 A-rank Servants in terms of stats then should she be 6.73 teratons?
She would be 962 Gigatons times 7, so 6.73 Teratons. So Small Country level+.

I also noticed that a few others that need to be evaluated, mainly Yagyu's second and third keys, Musashi's Zero key, Ruler Artoria. As well as characters who scale to random Divine Spirits, like Living Kintoki/Raikou.
 
She would be 962 Gigatons times 7, so 6.73 Teratons. So Small Country level+.

I also noticed that a few others that need to be evaluated, mainly Yagyu's second and third keys, Musashi's Zero key, Ruler Artoria. As well as characters who scale to random Divine Spirits, like Living Kintoki/Raikou.
Actually those that scale to Zero and Sword Masters were already addressed in Crimson last crt, is just that they weren't updated what a surprise, they basically scale above Numer Gawain. I already did Ruler Artoria, additionally I even added the tier 1 Rhongo from said crt.
 
Alright I believe that is all Fate/Grand Order characters. It's getting late so I'm going to bed soon. I'll look for more profiles tomorrow.
 
Alright I believe that is all Fate/Grand Order characters. It's getting late so I'm going to bed soon. I'll look for more profiles tomorrow.
Non Fate Go characters I already did some, like Chloe, Angelica, Arcueid, Roa, Illya Kaleid, Proto Gil, Shiki, the Sakura Five, La Bestia Gudao, Julian, Bazett Kaleid, Excalibur and Ea.
 
I also agree with the new upgrades, but would like to know why the Gugalanna calc isn't used. It was accepted, but never implemented.
 
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