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THE END OF ALL FIRE FORCE TIER 2 THREADS!!!

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PrinceofPein

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You know the saying, hit the iron while it is hot?
Well hitting this iron while it is still hot and its been 48 hours.
Recently, in this thread, Fire Force was accepted to be tier 2, so this is the first thread correcting the ratings.
The reason for the tier 2 is that
1. Adolla is a different space-time from the actual world
2. Adolla another space-time is merging with the universe, hence two different space-times merging with each other.

I was a bit caught up and since the thread pushed tier 2 in the last page even though that was not been argued previously, and when I tried to explain that they are not separate spacetimes, I was called "desperate" and also said I was stonewalling, so the only option was to create a new thread to correct that

So this thread will actually be simple and short. For Two universes A and B are spatio-temporally separate if and only if there are no points in space or time that are in both A and B.
This thread is just to prove that adolla and the real world are not spatio-temporally separate at all.

Shinra Adolla link allows him to go Light speed, but not just that he can go past light speed then he disintegrates and travels into the past.
Now
1. Shinra took an attack for Juggernaught which knocked him out and he somehow ended up in the Adolla plane with Inca
Shinra asked Inca what the Great Cataclysm is or how it will end, she replied that she does not know then, Inca mentioned that his super-light speed thing allows him to see the past, so he should travel back into the past to see what exactly happened during the last great cataclysm. Then she said "You will use your super light speed to fly into the past".
Shinra then traveled into the past, Where he saw the world or I should say Tokyo before the Great cataclysm on earth. Also the author also gave us a view of how earth 250 years ago looked like so he was obviously on earth 250 years ago.
So shinra time travelled when in the Adolla plane and ended up on earth from 250 years ago, which would not be possible if adolla and earth are in or different spacetimes, since you can obviously travel through their time and both is connected.
That will be all, but I should also add this interesting scenario, where shinra and sho while on earth and wanted to travel into the adolla, he had to disintegrate to do so, i.e. he had to travel into the past to do so.

Anyway that will be all, in summary both spaces are not spatio-temporally separate, which kind of defeats the entire point of two different universal spacetimes merging together.

Note Staff members and Knowledgeable members only, as the last thread was derailed a lot, so please any derailing post should be deleted so this will not be 9 pages, Thank you in advance

Also
No Derailing
Do not strawmann my arguments
All you need to prove this wrong is say why traveling to the past means going into another space-time, thats all, you dont need to write a long post


Agree:
Neutral: @LordGriffin1000
Disagree:
@Dalesean027 @CloverDragon03 @Planck69 @Theglassman12
 
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1) Adolla a separate world is completely disconnected from the real world. Totally and completely, it’s verbatim stated it’s another plane entirely. Hence why the merging of the two worlds causes space to tear between them in the first place. And hence why it’s referred to as a higher plane in the first place.

2) The past of mankind pre-cataclysm is different than the present mankind post cataclysm. This is because Adolla doesn’t just carry and embody “despair” in of itself, but the very despair of the history of mankind as well. The despair carries history in of itself as Adolla embodies all concepts and perception within it. That’s why Shinra had to go into Adolla to see the past pre-cataclysm in the first place. He even experienced different time flows as 3 months had passed while his mind was in Adolla and a doppelgänger from Adolla had taken over his body. This very image and history of mankind’s past despair is merging with the present world.

In short, Adolla is a higher plane completely spatially disconnected from the real world that experiences it’s own time flow with its own history of the concepts of mankind pre-cataclysm. It’s even noted that the concepts of the people of the past mixes with the present world, signifying a clear distinction between them. An Adolla’s merging of the past’s history of despair and the present world causes the cataclysm to occur.

Anyways since knowledgeable staff members such as Planck and Maverick and Ultima and Clover and even I believe Mitch as well were the ones who proposed and agreed upon 2-C scaling, I differ to their opinions on the matter as this thread was made literally 2 days after the other one was accepted.
 
1) Adolla a separate world is completely disconnected from the real world. Totally and completely, it’s verbatim stated it’s another plane entirely. Hence why the merging of the two worlds causes space to tear between them in the first place. And hence why it’s referred to as a higher plane in the first place.

2) The past of mankind pre-cataclysm is different than the present mankind post cataclysm. This is because Adolla doesn’t just carry and embody “despair” in of itself, but the very despair of the history of mankind as well. The despair carries history in of itself as Adolla embodies all concepts and perception within it. That’s why Shinra had to go into Adolla to see the past pre-cataclysm in the first place. He even experienced different time flows as 3 months had passed while his mind was in Adolla and a doppelgänger from Adolla had taken over his body. This very image and history of mankind’s past despair is merging with the present world.

In short, Adolla is a higher plane completely spatially disconnected from the real world that experiences it’s own time flow with its own history of the concepts of mankind pre-cataclysm. It’s even noted that the concepts of the people of the past mixes with the present world, signifying a clear distinction between them. An Adolla’s merging of the past’s history of despair and the present world causes the cataclysm to occur.

Anyways since knowledgeable staff members such as Planck and Maverick and Ultima and Clover and even I believe Mitch as well were the ones who proposed and agreed upon 2-C scaling, I differ to their opinions on the matter as this thread was made literally 2 days after the other one was accepted.
this plus the other times its called its own dimension, I'll be disagreeing
 
@Pain_to12 nothing in your OP suggests that that they aren’t spatiotemporally separated.


Shinra took an attack for Juggernaught which knocked him out and he somehow ended up in the Adolla plane with Inca
Shinra asked Inca what the Great Cataclysm is or how it will end, she replied that she does not know then, Inca mentioned that his super-light speed thing allows him to see the past, so he should travel back into the past to see what exactly happened during the last great cataclysm. Then she said "You will use your super light speed to fly into the past".
Shinra then traveled into the past, Where he saw the world or I should say Tokyo before the Great cataclysm on earth.

Infact, you just showed that there is a past within Adolla. Shinra went back in time within Adolla.

But for some reason you left out the fact that time moved differently outside of it. Three good months had passed in the real world while only moments had passed in Adolla where Shinra was in. Why did you not address this fact in the last thread?


So shinra time travelled when in the Adolla plane and ended up on earth from 250 years ago, which would not be possible if adolla and earth are in or different spacetimes, since you can obviously travel through their time and both is connected.
That will be all, but I should also add this interesting scenario, where shinra and sho while on earth and wanted to travel into the adolla, he had to disintegrate to do so, i.e. he had to travel into the past to do so.

This is just straight up wrong.

Shinra was only reminiscing the fact that he had been doing the impossible through the series such as literally turning to particle.

Nowhere does it say that Shinra had to go to the past to enter Adolla.
 
There is no point to this being a Staff Only discussion whatsoever. I was on the last thread and while there was the occasional derailment you'd expect from a large and somewhat controversial CRT, it wasn't to the degree of needing to only be a staff thread.

I'll get clarification in a bit about whether or not one can summarily just decide that as a non-staff before I change anything though.
 
Why is this Staff Only? And what happened to the discussion rule you were pushing for back when Tier 2 Fire Force wasn’t a thing? This is what gets me about discussion rules, some people seem to only really push for them when it benefits them.

Anyways I’m with Maitreya here, and I’ll definitely be disagreeing with this thread
 
So this thread will actually be simple and short. For Two universes A and B are spatio-temporally separate if and only if there are no points in space or time that are in both A and B.
This thread is just to prove that adolla and the real world are not spatio-temporally separate at all.
Not really.
DT clearly said in this revision and even in the other I linked in that thread that worlds can be spatiotemporaly separated even tho if they linked at some point in time and space. For examole, DT said MWI is tier 2B despite saying that branched timelines are linked at some point or in the past, they just have to be seprated in future. Also, rather than structure, how those timelines are being nuked matter most.
 
Not really.
DT clearly said in this revision and even in the other I linked in that thread that worlds can be spatiotemporaly separated even tho if they linked at some point in time and space. For examole, DT said MWI is tier 2B despite saying that branched timelines are linked at some point or in the past, they just have to be seprated in future. Also, rather than structure, how those timelines are being nuked matter most.
Executor_N0 also said this:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-cosmology-revision.148648/post-5440985

I thought that sharing a time axis was already accepted before as not really being a reason for not being separated space-times. It's one of the most direct ways of showing that they are different, but not something that must happen.

The necessity is for them to exist in parallel, they might share most of spatial and time axis, but not occupying the exact same points in space-time because they are separated by an even infinitesimal amount in another dimensional axis.

If there's enough reason for them to share the same overall space and therefore aren't parallel spaces (As in a quilted where there's only one region of space for everything and it just is very big to the point of repetitions to happen), then it wouldn't be an acceptable multiverse for our system.

Tl;dr Sharing the same temporal axis isn't a reason for that not being Tier 2, it just is one less reason for it to be. However, sharing the same spatial dimensions and baisc travel across space being enough to go mostly everywhere is a reason for just being Tier 3.
 
Like before, the arguments for 2-C are more solid to me than otherwise so I disagree with this CRT. As if that wasn't abundantly obvious.
To make a really quick clarification on why Adolla is a separate universal construct (because I feel as though the opposition will differ to the size of Adolla 🙃)

One of the many concepts Adolla embodies in its separate dimension is “the world” in of itself. (Which was determined the last thread to mean “universe” along with probably all its other meanings since it’s just perception and idea in general.)

Hope that also helps as well.
 
1) Adolla a separate world is completely disconnected from the real world. Totally and completely, it’s verbatim stated it’s another plane entirely. Hence why the merging of the two worlds causes space to tear between them in the first place. And hence why it’s referred to as a higher plane in the first place.

2) The past of mankind pre-cataclysm is different than the present mankind post cataclysm. This is because Adolla doesn’t just carry and embody “despair” in of itself, but the very despair of the history of mankind as well. The despair carries history in of itself as Adolla embodies all concepts and perception within it. That’s why Shinra had to go into Adolla to see the past pre-cataclysm in the first place. He even experienced different time flows as 3 months had passed while his mind was in Adolla and a doppelgänger from Adolla had taken over his body. This very image and history of mankind’s past despair is merging with the present world.

In short, Adolla is a higher plane completely spatially disconnected from the real world that experiences it’s own time flow with its own history of the concepts of mankind pre-cataclysm. It’s even noted that the concepts of the people of the past mixes with the present world, signifying a clear distinction between them. An Adolla’s merging of the past’s history of despair and the present world causes the cataclysm to occur.

Anyways since knowledgeable staff members such as Planck and Maverick and Ultima and Clover and even I believe Mitch as well were the ones who proposed and agreed upon 2-C scaling, I differ to their opinions on the matter as this thread was made literally 2 days after the other one was accepted.
I agree with @Maitreya meaning i disagree with the downgrade
 
pain, this is already too exaggerated, I mean I understand that you might not like that fire force is high (only two characters) but seriously, why be dishonest to try to downgrade the verse? It's almost the same as the fire force arguments being only planet level, except that those were from people who didn't read the manga very well, you are directly downgrading something for the sake of downgrading.
now makes sense why damage say that vsbw ignore context,because is real,this includes you
 
Disagree with the downgrade for the reasons already provided above.

That will be all, but I should also add this interesting scenario, where shinra and sho while on earth and wanted to travel into the adolla, he had to disintegrate to do so, i.e. he had to travel into the past to do so.
It's already been brought up but I just genuinely can't fathom how you managed to completely misinterpreting the scan of them traveling to adolla as him having to disintegrate when nothing of the such was shown & the scan you use literally doesn't say that. Whether knowingly or unknowingly this is a very poor interpretation of the statement despite how clearly it is written as shinra just describing how he's getting used to doing the impossible & listing disintegrating into microscopic particles as on of such impossible things.
 
Shinra also didn’t “disintegrate” when he viewed the past in Adolla. That only happens in the real world but Adolla is a world of perception.

When he viewed the pre-cataclysm past inside Adolla, only his mind was gone as that was what was linked to Adolla in the first place. His body remained in the real world and was straight up taken over by his doppelgänger from Adolla.

So idk what this “disintegration” is in regards to Shinra viewing the past from Adolla.
 
As someone who isn't necessarily biased for or against Fire Force, the arguments provided in the OP aren't good nor formulated well. If you wish to remove the rating i would've brought more evidence than just these scans which don't necessarily prove your claim, nor really imply your claim to be true.

I'll respond to the arguments in the OP later, as i disagree with them.
 
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