• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

Status
Not open for further replies.
Agnaa said:
No, that is actually a good point. A realm that is not made out of lower things, and cannot be contained within any amount of dimensions of space and time, should not be able to lie on an ordinary 3-D Earth.

How the hell can you argue 1-A to be ontologically transcendent to typical mathematics, but not consider blatant things like that to be contradictions?
Click to expand...
That's not actually the argument. The point is less that and more "The building on Earth is a gateway to the higher realm and not the higher realm in-and-of-itself." If it actually was the whole realm somehow circumscribed inside of ordinary space, though, I obviously would agree.

Iamunanimousinthat said:
It's more on the matter that it was accessed through a location in the lower world. Something that would be a disqualifier for 1-A for other series if there weren't other evidence to explain why that doesn't matter? (correction, the house is in long island).
Click to expand...
Not exactly. The point about the inaccessibility of 1-A is that the processes of the lesser world can't arrange themselves in a way that they add up to something that breaches into the 1-A layer of reality. There's nothing particularly wrong with there being a gateway to a 1-A realm that's been inserted by a higher being, and otherwise is not actually the structure of the realm itself.

The point of concern, I believe, would not actually be this. It would be "How do the characters appear to have actual presence and influence inside this 1-A reality?", which is a way better mode of attack and the thing that draws out real concern, imo.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
That's not actually the argument. The point is less that and more "The building on Earth is a gateway to the higher realm and not the higher realm in-and-of-itself." If it actually was the whole realm somehow circumscribed inside of ordinary space, though, I obviously would agree.
Click to expand...
I'd still want to be quite careful with that. It couldn't actually be a direct portal, where some process on the lower layer can transport people to the higher layer. It would have to be a point that something on a higher layer arbitrarily selects to teleport people from.

And, generally, making sure that such an explanation is actually consistent with events (i.e. the interior shouldn't be noticeably affected by exterior events, characters with 3-D scale cosmic awareness shouldn't be able to see into it, etc.)
Ultima_Reality said:
The point of concern, I believe, would not actually be this. It would be "How do the characters appear to have actual presence and influence inside this 1-A reality?", which is a way better mode of attack and the thing that draws out real concern, imo.
Click to expand...
Eh, I don't think that part's too big. A higher entity could just grant and revoke that.
 
Agnaa said:
No, that is actually a good point. A realm that is not made out of lower things, and cannot be contained within any amount of dimensions of space and time, should not be able to lie on an ordinary 3-D Earth.

How the hell can you argue 1-A to be ontologically transcendent to typical mathematics, but not consider blatant things like that to be contradictions?
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that just be Tier 1-A potential?
 
Agnaa said:
I'd still want to be quite careful with that. It couldn't actually be a direct portal, where some process on the lower layer can transport people to the higher layer. It would have to be a point that something on a higher layer arbitrarily selects to teleport people from.

And, generally, making sure that such an explanation is actually consistent with events (i.e. the interior shouldn't be noticeably affected by exterior events, characters with 3-D scale cosmic awareness shouldn't be able to see into it, etc.)
Click to expand...
True. If there's a fight going on outside of the portal and somehow earthquakes from the outside are felt on the inside, for example, that's problematic. (Though it can be chalked up to PIS depending on how adamant the verse otherwise is about the realm's transcendence and the potential fewness of wacky scenarios like this)

Livinmeme said:
Wouldn't that just be Tier 1-A potential?
Click to expand...
Jesse what the **** are you talking about.
 
I think Narnia deserves 0, if Tolkien's verse is getting Eru to 0. Yes, I understand that the latter has a better mention of where Eru scales, but the point remains that the two verses are quite similar just within their own settings.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
If the "Reality/Unreality" dichotomy in question is actually "the distinction between non-1-A and 1-A," though, or something like that, then transcending it would be High 1-A at least.
Click to expand...
So the same thing can be extrapolated for something like a High 1-A and a layer into High 1-A cosmology and so on, where it would completely transcend the meta-qualitative layers and be meta-meta-qualitative or something?

EDIT: Also how will this affect Plurality or characters that exist in multiple truth states?

Would you also be willing to spare some time to evaluate this thread as it relates to the standards of Beyond-Dimensional Existence.
I also welcome other staff to give their input too.
 
Last edited:
Da3ggman said:
FDYAAmkWYAM7hrA.jpg


Sorry, forgot we can’t have fun in VS Battle Wiki.
Click to expand...
Im stealing this pic
 
BadSystems said:
I think SCP ought to be removed on account of it lacking a coherent narrative, being just fanfiction, and being written with powerscaling in mind tbh...
Click to expand...
If that were to be real, then the number of current tier 0's will get dropped almost into an oblivion, and thank God, cuz I'm tired of seeing another tier 0 SCP character. Makes tier 0 feel less special
 
BadSystems said:
I think SCP ought to be removed on account of it lacking a coherent narrative, being just fanfiction, and being written with powerscaling in mind tbh...
Click to expand...
This has already been refuted more times than I can count.
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
I'm trying to quash common misconceptions here that cause trouble, which I'd say is perfectly worthy of involving staff. The "SCP is fanfiction" argument has already been refuted a bunch of times, often in threads not even about SCP because people engage in whataboutism over it when their verses are in danger of being rejected due to potential fanfiction in them:
  1. https://vsbattles.com/threads/make-scp-great-again-call-to-action.33918/
  2. https://vsbattles.com/threads/scp-should-not-be-allowed-on-this-site.39421/
  3. https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-thread-everyone-wanted-deleting-scp.139470/
  4. https://vsbattles.com/threads/world-of-darkness-cosmology-1-5-tm-inc-llc-cr.146488/post-5428298
  5. https://vsbattles.com/threads/pacheco-cara-floja-deletion.150882/
  6. https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-talisman-high-1a-and-0-upgrade.149707/
  7. https://vsbattles.com/threads/fully-embedding-wikidot-backrooms-into-vs-battles-wiki.153997/
Click to expand...
 
Karabach-barabach said:
If that were to be real, then the number of current tier 0's will get dropped almost into an oblivion, and thank God, cuz I'm tired of seeing another tier 0 SCP character. Makes tier 0 feel less special
Click to expand...
SCP won't be Tier 0 at all under the new system, just High 1-A.
 
Wesker018 said:
We all agree that a new scp will appear coincidentally that fits the new system, right? When that moment comes, let's act surprised.

In fact, I bet one of the writers is reading this right now. Hi!
Click to expand...
This mocking is baseless. A Monad or a collection of all possibilities doesn't fit with SCP's themes, and the authors reputable enough to do one regardless aren't interested.
 
Wesker018 said:
scp authors reaction after seeing that they wrote stacks of narratives, absurdly powerful hax and a giant cosmology only to be neg diffed by a character created in the 14th century by Dante Alighieri. (he didn't even know what powerscaling was)
staring-meme-bald-guy-staring.gif
Click to expand...
What if every author from 14th century and before knew about powerscaling and waited for specific group of nerds to make it sprout even more
 
It's funny that isekai characters keep appearing, whose creators strive to make them as powerful as possible, only to continue being neg diffed by a random god from Cthuluh mythos.
 
Last edited:
Wesker018 said:
It's funny that isekai characters continue to appear, whose creators strive to make them as powerful as possible, only to continue being neg diffed by a random god from Cthuluh mythos.
Click to expand...
Isekai authors watching their overbuffed mc get fodderised by some lovecraft character written centuries ago
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
VS Battles Is Nonsense / Delete My Account
Replies
6
Views
3K
Dragonite007
Dragonite007
demonwarrior2266
Application of Ultima's CRT
Replies
4
Views
2K
Hypertornado099
Hypertornado099
  • Locked
What would debunk the basis of the VSBW tiering system
Replies
6
Views
2K
Urshani
Boy.Line
Qualification issues.
Replies
7
Views
750
TheOrangeGuy09
TheOrangeGuy09
Ultima_Reality
  • Locked
On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System
12 13 14
Replies
530
Views
180K
Ultima_Reality
Ultima_Reality
Back
Top