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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
Stop.
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FDYAAmkWYAM7hrA.jpg


Sorry, forgot we can’t have fun in VS Battle Wiki.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
@Ultima_Reality
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As a serious answer: I don't believe the House of Ideas' claim to 1-A or higher is invalidated, no. I'm tired as shit right now, though, so more in-depth explanation ought to come later. (Hopefully you people at least realize that the "It's a building in Connecticut" point is really damn stupid, though)
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Hopefully you people at least realize that the "It's a building in Connecticut" point is really damn stupid, though
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It's more on the matter that it was accessed through a location in the lower world. Something that would be a disqualifier for 1-A for other series if there weren't other evidence to explain why that doesn't matter? (correction, the house is in long island).
 
Ultima_Reality said:
As a serious answer: I don't believe the House of Ideas' claim to 1-A or higher is invalidated, no. I'm tired as shit right now, though, so more in-depth explanation ought to come later. (Hopefully you people at least realize that the "It's a building in Connecticut" point is really damn stupid, though)
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No, that is actually a good point. A realm that is not made out of lower things, and cannot be contained within any amount of dimensions of space and time, should not be able to lie on an ordinary 3-D Earth.

How the hell can you argue 1-A to be ontologically transcendent to typical mathematics, but not consider blatant things like that to be contradictions?
 
Agnaa said:
No, that is actually a good point. A realm that is not made out of lower things, and cannot be contained within any amount of dimensions of space and time, should not be able to lie on an ordinary 3-D Earth.

How the hell can you argue 1-A to be ontologically transcendent to typical mathematics, but not consider blatant things like that to be contradictions?
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That's not actually the argument. The point is less that and more "The building on Earth is a gateway to the higher realm and not the higher realm in-and-of-itself." If it actually was the whole realm somehow circumscribed inside of ordinary space, though, I obviously would agree.

Iamunanimousinthat said:
It's more on the matter that it was accessed through a location in the lower world. Something that would be a disqualifier for 1-A for other series if there weren't other evidence to explain why that doesn't matter? (correction, the house is in long island).
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Not exactly. The point about the inaccessibility of 1-A is that the processes of the lesser world can't arrange themselves in a way that they add up to something that breaches into the 1-A layer of reality. There's nothing particularly wrong with there being a gateway to a 1-A realm that's been inserted by a higher being, and otherwise is not actually the structure of the realm itself.

The point of concern, I believe, would not actually be this. It would be "How do the characters appear to have actual presence and influence inside this 1-A reality?", which is a way better mode of attack and the thing that draws out real concern, imo.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
That's not actually the argument. The point is less that and more "The building on Earth is a gateway to the higher realm and not the higher realm in-and-of-itself." If it actually was the whole realm somehow circumscribed inside of ordinary space, though, I obviously would agree.
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I'd still want to be quite careful with that. It couldn't actually be a direct portal, where some process on the lower layer can transport people to the higher layer. It would have to be a point that something on a higher layer arbitrarily selects to teleport people from.

And, generally, making sure that such an explanation is actually consistent with events (i.e. the interior shouldn't be noticeably affected by exterior events, characters with 3-D scale cosmic awareness shouldn't be able to see into it, etc.)
Ultima_Reality said:
The point of concern, I believe, would not actually be this. It would be "How do the characters appear to have actual presence and influence inside this 1-A reality?", which is a way better mode of attack and the thing that draws out real concern, imo.
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Eh, I don't think that part's too big. A higher entity could just grant and revoke that.
 
Agnaa said:
No, that is actually a good point. A realm that is not made out of lower things, and cannot be contained within any amount of dimensions of space and time, should not be able to lie on an ordinary 3-D Earth.

How the hell can you argue 1-A to be ontologically transcendent to typical mathematics, but not consider blatant things like that to be contradictions?
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Wouldn't that just be Tier 1-A potential?
 
Agnaa said:
I'd still want to be quite careful with that. It couldn't actually be a direct portal, where some process on the lower layer can transport people to the higher layer. It would have to be a point that something on a higher layer arbitrarily selects to teleport people from.

And, generally, making sure that such an explanation is actually consistent with events (i.e. the interior shouldn't be noticeably affected by exterior events, characters with 3-D scale cosmic awareness shouldn't be able to see into it, etc.)
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True. If there's a fight going on outside of the portal and somehow earthquakes from the outside are felt on the inside, for example, that's problematic. (Though it can be chalked up to PIS depending on how adamant the verse otherwise is about the realm's transcendence and the potential fewness of wacky scenarios like this)

Livinmeme said:
Wouldn't that just be Tier 1-A potential?
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Jesse what the **** are you talking about.
 
I think Narnia deserves 0, if Tolkien's verse is getting Eru to 0. Yes, I understand that the latter has a better mention of where Eru scales, but the point remains that the two verses are quite similar just within their own settings.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
If the "Reality/Unreality" dichotomy in question is actually "the distinction between non-1-A and 1-A," though, or something like that, then transcending it would be High 1-A at least.
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So the same thing can be extrapolated for something like a High 1-A and a layer into High 1-A cosmology and so on, where it would completely transcend the meta-qualitative layers and be meta-meta-qualitative or something?

EDIT: Also how will this affect Plurality or characters that exist in multiple truth states?

Would you also be willing to spare some time to evaluate this thread as it relates to the standards of Beyond-Dimensional Existence.
I also welcome other staff to give their input too.
 
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BadSystems said:
I think SCP ought to be removed on account of it lacking a coherent narrative, being just fanfiction, and being written with powerscaling in mind tbh...
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If that were to be real, then the number of current tier 0's will get dropped almost into an oblivion, and thank God, cuz I'm tired of seeing another tier 0 SCP character. Makes tier 0 feel less special
 
BadSystems said:
I think SCP ought to be removed on account of it lacking a coherent narrative, being just fanfiction, and being written with powerscaling in mind tbh...
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This has already been refuted more times than I can count.
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
I'm trying to quash common misconceptions here that cause trouble, which I'd say is perfectly worthy of involving staff. The "SCP is fanfiction" argument has already been refuted a bunch of times, often in threads not even about SCP because people engage in whataboutism over it when their verses are in danger of being rejected due to potential fanfiction in them:
  1. https://vsbattles.com/threads/make-scp-great-again-call-to-action.33918/
  2. https://vsbattles.com/threads/scp-should-not-be-allowed-on-this-site.39421/
  3. https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-thread-everyone-wanted-deleting-scp.139470/
  4. https://vsbattles.com/threads/world-of-darkness-cosmology-1-5-tm-inc-llc-cr.146488/post-5428298
  5. https://vsbattles.com/threads/pacheco-cara-floja-deletion.150882/
  6. https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-talisman-high-1a-and-0-upgrade.149707/
  7. https://vsbattles.com/threads/fully-embedding-wikidot-backrooms-into-vs-battles-wiki.153997/
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Karabach-barabach said:
If that were to be real, then the number of current tier 0's will get dropped almost into an oblivion, and thank God, cuz I'm tired of seeing another tier 0 SCP character. Makes tier 0 feel less special
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SCP won't be Tier 0 at all under the new system, just High 1-A.
 
Wesker018 said:
We all agree that a new scp will appear coincidentally that fits the new system, right? When that moment comes, let's act surprised.

In fact, I bet one of the writers is reading this right now. Hi!
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This mocking is baseless. A Monad or a collection of all possibilities doesn't fit with SCP's themes, and the authors reputable enough to do one regardless aren't interested.
 
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