The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

[Livinmeme]

Does this new system allow smurf hax?

I don't see why not? Characters using R>F to their advantage is somewhat common
I.E. George joestar, Looney toons, Capshit

 

[Livinmeme]

Who has hax that scale to Beyond? Is it just the people that have Beyond's protection/blessing? I haven't read Jorge Joestar, so I don't know.

I vaguelly renember hearing someone saying that in the prequel of george joestar (yes there is a prequel), it is established that there are beings beyond the...Beyonder. Thought that could just be youtube comment wankery

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I vaguelly renember hearing someone saying that in the prequel of george joestar (yes there is a prequel), it is established that there are beings beyond the...Beyonder. Thought that could just be youtube comment wankery

Wait, really? Hm... I'll have to ask the JoJo experts to see for sure.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I don't see why not? Characters using R>F to their advantage is somewhat common
I.E. George joestar, Looney toons, Capshit

looney tune characters wouldn’t be getting R>F if my understanding is correct, as their ability to enter the author space is internal and something something continuity between higher and lower spaces.

 

[Genericstickman]

I vaguelly renember hearing someone saying that in the prequel of george joestar (yes there is a prequel), it is established that there are beings beyond the...Beyonder. Thought that could just be youtube comment wankery

if you're referring to Tsukumojuku then I'm pretty sure we don't use that here

 

[Agnaa]

I vaguelly renember hearing someone saying that in the prequel of george joestar (yes there is a prequel), it is established that there are beings beyond the...Beyonder. Thought that could just be youtube comment wankery

Wait, really? Hm... I'll have to ask the JoJo experts to see for sure.

Nonononono! I'm actually quite the expert in the stories people call prequels to JORGE JOESTAR; Tsukumojuuku and Disco ☆ Wednesdayyy.

Firstly and most importantly, the Tsukumo Juukus/Tsukumojuukus (yes, there's multiple of them that take up both of those slightly different names) aren't actually the same characters as the one in JORGE JOESTAR. The author likes to, across his stories, write characters with the same name and similar traits, who nonetheless, are different due to contradictions between their lives. The characters in those stories aren't consistent with the JORGE one.

Secondly and almost as importantly, there is actually no reference to "Beyonds" in those stories. There's a few moments that one could read as vaguely similar, but it's a concept that was invented for JORGE JOESTAR itself.

Thirdly, there's a lotta wankery going around about those cosmologies. Disco ☆ Wednesdayyy, while it does reference some pieces of fiction, they're never really relevant, and so it caps out at timeline-warping abilities. Tsukumojuuku is a complete clusterfuck, since we're told a lot of contradictory information. Each of its seven chapters, besides the first, starts with Tsukumojuuku finishing reading the previous chapter and revealing it was a book sent to him. But near the end, we start hearing characters suggest that it's actually all just one timeline being reset and altered, and right at the end, it's revealed that all of these events were just Tsukumojuuku daydreaming to escape his horrible reality.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

don't worry it only applies to a single character but it gives other characters 1-A smurf hax

Which one, and who gets outer hax

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Nonononono! I'm actually quite the expert in the stories people call prequels to JORGE JOESTAR; Tsukumojuuku and Disco ☆ Wednesdayyy.

Firstly and most importantly, the Tsukumo Juukus/Tsukumojuukus (yes, there's multiple of them that take up both of those slightly different names) aren't actually the same characters as the one in JORGE JOESTAR. The author likes to, across his stories, write characters with the same name and similar traits, who nonetheless, are different due to contradictions between their lives. The characters in those stories aren't consistent with the JORGE one.

Secondly and almost as importantly, there is actually no reference to "Beyonds" in those stories. There's a few moments that one could read as vaguely similar, but it's a concept that was invented for JORGE JOESTAR itself.

Thirdly, there's a lotta wankery going around about those cosmologies. Disco ☆ Wednesdayyy, while it does reference some pieces of fiction, they're never really relevant, and so it caps out at timeline-warping abilities. Tsukumojuuku is a complete clusterfuck, since we're told a lot of contradictory information. Each of its seven chapters, besides the first, starts with Tsukumojuuku finishing reading the previous chapter and revealing it was a book sent to him. But near the end, we start hearing characters suggest that it's actually all just one timeline being reset and altered, and right at the end, it's revealed that all of these events were just Tsukumojuuku daydreaming to escape his horrible reality.

Huh, interesting. Thank you for informing me!

(Also, this series sounds really weird, and I say that as a JoJo fan).

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Which one, and who gets outer hax

Likely Beyond, who is, as far as I know, basically just the author of the world. Agnaa and Chariot know more than me.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Likely Beyond, who is, as far as I know, basically just the author of the world. Agnaa and Chariot know more than me.

Man, I thought outer GER would be real now lmao

 

[Genericstickman]

I don't see why not? Characters using R>F to their advantage is somewhat common
I.E. George joestar, Looney toons, Capshit

yeah but now you need an explanation for the character having that level of hax otherwise it'd be considered an anti-feat for the R>F character being 1-A

 

[Livinmeme]

yeah but now you need an explanation for the character having that level of hax otherwise it'd be considered an anti-feat for the R>F character being 1-A

That seems vague enough that it could be used to deny some characters from having the 1-A rating, for arbitrary reasons

 

[Agnaa]

That seems vague enough that it could be used to deny some characters from having the 1-A rating, for arbitrary reasons

The more precise answer, is that a character being able to jump up a R>F difference through their own power is considered an anti-feat against that R>F difference actually being 1-A. If it can be crossed by something below, that goes against the fundamental definition of 1-A.

R>F powers can typically only qualify if they're granted or performed by higher beings.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The more precise answer, is that a character being able to jump up a R>F difference through their own power is considered an anti-feat against that R>F difference actually being 1-A. If it can be crossed by something below, that goes against the fundamental definition of 1-A.

R>F powers can typically only qualify if they're granted or performed by higher beings.

Which is why I want to see how the House of Ideas from Marvel will be 1-A when Vision entered it on his own powers’ accord.

Plus it being a house in Connecticut.

 

[Iiliminal]

Tbh I highly doubt The Backrooms will ever get on here. SCP barely passed by the skin of its teeth, and that was with thousands of articles and authors, all on a single, well-moderated site that had been established for over a decade. As far as I know, nothing close to that caliber exists for The Backrooms.

backrooms is already on here tho, just not the wikis. and lowkey missing out cuz tier 1 shit aside theres a lot to index (locations, characters, phenomenon, etc., while kane pixels canon doesnt have much) and vs thread potential goes hard

 

[Lasting900]

So, there can only be one Tier (0) and one Tier (High 1-A +) per “series” on this website, given that each series has the necessary context to justify characters having these tiers?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The gates have been closed. We are now in new territory.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Which is why I want to see how the House of Ideas from Marvel will be 1-A when Vision entered it on his own powers’ accord.

Plus it being a house in Connecticut.

First, there's still such a thing as outliers, and if an interaction anti-feat fails to stack up to the preponderance of the evidence, it'll be considered Plot-Induced Stupidity. Second, Vision was only able to use that house to get there because it was placed there on purpose by the higher powers, which means he isn't just using "his own powers’ accord."

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

It does, it's just contradicted such that it doesn't qualify.

I fail to see how any supreme being I've read in SCP would qualify even if they weren't contradicted. None of them seem to be described in a way that aligns with that.

 

[deonment]

Fun fact. With the new upgrade there is a good chance that uncle grandpa curbstomps all of warhammer, almost all of DnD, homestuck, SMT and all xianxia that is currently here (unless they get some BS upgrade)

I'm like decently sure warhammer is getting upgraded after this
Homestuck clears even without 1-A+/High 1-A arguments
SMT is gonna get upgraded
And you underestimate chinaman bullshit

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

First, there's still such a thing as outliers, and if an interaction anti-feat fails to stack up to the preponderance of the evidence, it'll be considered Plot-Induced Stupidity. Second, Vision was only able to use that house to get there because it was placed there on purpose by the higher powers, which means he isn't just using "his own powers’ accord."

It's not an outlier and it's not plot induced stupidity. Those are for things within in the story. You can't use that to explain away why something doesn't fit the standard for an independent third-party tier system. The story itself is consistent with it self.

Also vision was able to enter the house, because he was faster and could phase through the door before it completely closed.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

It's not an outlier and it's not plot induced stupidity. Those are for things within in the story. You can't use that to explain away why something doesn't fit the standard for an independent third-party tier system. The story itself is consistent with it self.

Also vision was able to enter the house, because he was faster and could phase through the door before it completely closed.

@Ultima_Reality

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Plus it being a house in Connecticut.

9-A House of Ideas confirmed. Damn.

 

[Iiliminal]

Goku solos

 

[Da3ggman]

@Ultima_Reality

Bro had to summon Eight-Handled Sword Divergent Sila Divine User Ultima

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Bro had to summon Eight-Handled Sword Divergent Sila Divine User Ultima

Stop.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Can y'all ever imagine a day when SCP will not be available on the site anymore?

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Can y'all ever imagine a day when SCP will be reduced to oblivion?

I don't appreciate this mocking.

 

[Wesker018]

Can y'all ever imagine a day when SCP will be reduced to oblivion?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

SMT is gonna get upgraded

I am actually quite interested in how SMT will be fare. They have a lot of different things to pull from. I am wondering which reasoning will be considered which tier.

9-A House of Ideas confirmed. Damn.

I am sure, there is some obscure panel in some comic book that will wave away these concerns. Hopefully, it will be a guideway for other verses who run into similar depictions.

 

[GarrixianXD]

I don't appreciate this mocking.

I edited my message, hope you're satisfied.

 

[Agnaa]

So, there can only be one Tier (0) and one Tier (High 1-A +) per “series” on this website, given that each series has the necessary context to justify characters having these tiers?

The one High 1-A+ limit per series has been removed.

First, there's still such a thing as outliers, and if an interaction anti-feat fails to stack up to the preponderance of the evidence, it'll be considered Plot-Induced Stupidity. Second, Vision was only able to use that house to get there because it was placed there on purpose by the higher powers, which means he isn't just using "his own powers’ accord."

The latter isn't actually a sufficient reason. A 1-A being cannot make a part of their 1-A realm be accessible to all 10-B beings; those beings would have to be bumped up to 1-A.

And no higher being could do that either; instead, it would collapse down the difference between those two levels of reality.

There may be a point with the preponderance of evidence, but that evidence would have to be pretty damn strong, not just 5 statements of "it's truer reality" or anything like that. It would have to actually establish its inaccessibility more consistently than that's contradicted.

I fail to see how any supreme being I've read in SCP would qualify even if they weren't contradicted. None of them seem to be described in a way that aligns with that.

We already tried talking about this but you seemed unwilling to engage further, so I won't bother with that now.

 

[Nierre]

should've stood on business

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

I edited my message, hope you're satisfied.

I think it should be a discussion rule at this point: "Do not attempt to remove this series from the wiki based on claims that it lacks a coherent narrative, is just fanfiction, or is a series written with powerscaling as a focus..."

 

[Da3ggman]

Stop.

Sorry, forgot we can’t have fun in VS Battle Wiki.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

@Ultima_Reality

As a serious answer: I don't believe the House of Ideas' claim to 1-A or higher is invalidated, no. I'm tired as shit right now, though, so more in-depth explanation ought to come later. (Hopefully you people at least realize that the "It's a building in Connecticut" point is really damn stupid, though)

 

[Livinmeme]

I am actually quite interested in how SMT will be fare. They have a lot of different things to pull from. I am wondering which reasoning will be considered which tier.

Spoiler

SMT has like....10 edtions of tabletop RPG, that should boost their power a fuckton

 

[Livinmeme]

Sorry, forgot we can’t have fun in VS Battle Wiki.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Hopefully you people at least realize that the "It's a building in Connecticut" point is really damn stupid, though

It's more on the matter that it was accessed through a location in the lower world. Something that would be a disqualifier for 1-A for other series if there weren't other evidence to explain why that doesn't matter? (correction, the house is in long island).

 

[Agnaa]

As a serious answer: I don't believe the House of Ideas' claim to 1-A or higher is invalidated, no. I'm tired as shit right now, though, so more in-depth explanation ought to come later. (Hopefully you people at least realize that the "It's a building in Connecticut" point is really damn stupid, though)

No, that is actually a good point. A realm that is not made out of lower things, and cannot be contained within any amount of dimensions of space and time, should not be able to lie on an ordinary 3-D Earth.

How the hell can you argue 1-A to be ontologically transcendent to typical mathematics, but not consider blatant things like that to be contradictions?