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Team Fortress 2 Revisions Continued

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WeeklyBattles said:
Regular non-crit rockets can still kill them and in the animations Scout was nearly killed by a rocket landing near him
Click to expand...
We have no idea of their physical state at the times when they are blown up. Plus, more often than not, crockets were used to blow people up in Meet the Soldier.

I'm sorry, but the evidence for Soldier tanking his own rockets are more compelling than the evidence against. I mean, he rocket jumps in the trailer itself. If it insta-gibs everyone, he should have lost his legs.

Also he didn't have gunboats on so he tanked the full impact.
 
@Weekly, Yes - however there are still two explosions which could potentially yield higher results - but I was mostly just referring to the "mercs are one-shotted by rockets" part.
 
Sir Ovens said:
I'm sorry, but the evidence for Soldier tanking his own rockets are more compelling than the evidence against. I mean, he rocket jumps in the trailer itself. If it insta-gibs everyone, he should have lost his legs.
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It was calced at 9-B already so
 
WeeklyBattles said:
The Explosion Yield calculation is Y = ((x/0.28)^3) where X is the radius in km and Y is the yield in kilotons

1.04 m = 0.00104 km

Y = ((0.00104/0.28)^3) = 5.12419825e-8 kt = 0.0000512419825 tons, 214396.45478 Joules
Click to expand...
 
Schwxnz said:
@Abstractions, how's it not blitzing? Scout had enough time to look at the whole area and could tell Heavy that there wasn't any australium left yet he wasn't capable of evading the rope that Margaret threw at him.

Other than that, he has an subsonic feat in the comics and he should generally not be dramatically inferior to the mercs.
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Because throwing a rope from the point below when Scout just hadn't noticed them prior is not indicative of blitzing, let alone the fact she hardly had to move for the feat.

Also not seeing where the feat is there, it's just showing the motion of him punching once.
 
We don't see Saxton in that panel, he could have been approaching him before grasping at his throat, making it not much of a feat.

Even if we go down the route of it being Subsonic (FTE), this is still for Saxton and that's it. It wouldn't apply to anyone else as we know he's much, much stronger than them.
 
Schwxnz said:
Spy blitzing Joey Murders should be Subsonic as well.
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He killed him off-panel, the timeframe isn't indicative of being any faster than Athletic, remember when the Joker made the pencil disappear? He didn't need to be that fast for it.
 
An later panel more or less proves that Spy took away Joey Murder's pencil and stabbed him in the back directly afterwards; even before Scout was able to mutter his next sentence.

Also, if I may ask: What are the issues with the current calc? Rockets in TF2 move at 1100HU/s, which means that 1100HU/s equal to roughly 294m/s; and that allows us to find out the speeds of the mercs (Who move at 230HU/s / 240HU/s / 280HU/s / 300HU/s / 320HU/s / 400HU/s).
 
Abstractions said:
Schwxnz said:
@Abstractions, how's it not blitzing? Scout had enough time to look at the whole area and could tell Heavy that there wasn't any australium left yet he wasn't capable of evading the rope that Margaret threw at him.

Other than that, he has an subsonic feat in the comics and he should generally not be dramatically inferior to the mercs.
Click to expand...
Also not seeing where the feat is there, it's just showing the motion of him punching once.
Click to expand...
saxton punched gray mann ten times, that is shown by the amount of "a"s in the sound effect text
 
Schwxnz said:
An later panel more or less proves that Spy took away Joey Murder's pencil and stabbed him in the back directly afterwards; even before Scout was able to mutter his next sentence.

Also, if I may ask: What are the issues with the current calc? Rockets in TF2 move at 1100HU/s, which means that 1100HU/s equal to roughly 294m/s; and that allows us to find out the speeds of the mercs (Who move at 230HU/s / 240HU/s / 280HU/s / 300HU/s / 320HU/s / 400HU/s).
Click to expand...
Yes, but the timing of their conversation didn't need for that specific action to be Subsonic, also, that same panel counters your argument, as there is clearly security footage evidence that Spy killed Joey, which they wouldn't have been able to capture had he moved FTE.

Honestly, it doesn't require that someone be Subsonic for that feat, just being much more skilled than your assailant is enough.

The calc was taking IRL rocket firing speeds to compare to in-game speeds, which people were clear about their uncertainty of the validity behind that.

Narbund2 said:
saxton punched gray mann ten times, that is shown by the amount of "a"s in the sound effect text
Click to expand...
None of which required that to happen in an instant.
 
To be fair, TF2's universe is highly advanced. It'd be completely reasonable to assume that their security footage is able to capture FTE movements.

Skill doesn't let you blitz your opponents.

Apart from Typhlosion130 - who tried to downgrade them to Below Average Human - Average Human+ movement speeds - there hasn't been anyone I am aware of who had such an problem with the calc. Could you maybe link an example?

Edit: Nevermind, I've just seen an example. There's apparently an older calc that puts them at Subsonic/Transonic, so we may have to search for that one.
 
Schwxnz said:
Skill doesn't let you blitz your opponents.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly why it isn't blitzing, which is what I've been trying to say.
 
I believe Amelia has been referring to this calc in that thread that I've linked earlier.
 
Also, you can apparently vaporize several enemys at once with vaporizing weaponry such as the Cow Mangler.

If you were to vaporize X enemys with the same shot; would the result be multiplied by X?
 
also he can surive the reskin of the stok pistol who also can desintregate even a scout marced for death can survive several shoots
 
Schwxnz said:
I believe Amelia has been referring to this calc in that thread that I've linked earlier.
Click to expand...
It would probably have to be reevaluated.
 
also the short circuit can shoot electrycity and the capper shootl laser and probaly the cow mangler is probaly plasma
 
We have already discussed numerous times why the mercs dont scale to weapons that can vaporize them
 
number one the excuse of resistence of heat that have any sense especially when pyro can burned down number two survive even if the resistence of heat was rigth he can survive to batsaber copper number 3 is vaporation more nuclear that heat because in the context in the game is more likely vaporation for energy than for heat
 
wait a minute so you say than the weapons dont scale to the mercenary (who literally had no sense) so why of you main argument is the explosion of soldier when you say than the weapons dont scale
 
They wouldn't scale because:

1. Heat resistance is a concept we implement and wouldn't apply to durability involving KE.

2. The feat of scaling to a vaporizing attack seems paradoxical in nature, how are they in turn able to tank an attack that vaporizes them, and then afterwards be vaporized by it right after? They are only vaporized if they are hit with something vastly above their durability.
 
1. i say that is not heat is more likely energy is like say that a feat of energy cinetic and say that can be apliced because is heat and no i refering and is not kinetic energy

2.they are a low healt the term in low health is more like low defenses
 
HP is game mechanics.
 
Also every calc on the wiki needs a blog to be accepted. That's how we do things. I notice there's a lot of calculations here you guys are only doing in the thread here. That's not how we roll. Put them into blogs first, don't take them as gospel before they're accepted or could be peer reviewed
 
Freezing feats are no longr being allowed as AP feats

Actually, Freezing and Ice calculations are still Attack Potency much as heating feats are. It's just surviving freeze/heat waves has less to do with durability and more to do with temperature resistance + inverse square law.
 
Hey, so I talked to Jacky about this and while I'm not incredibly familiar with the verse I'd like to share some ideas on the calcs I was shown.

First of all, the explosion in this calculatio is perfectly legitimate math wise and is solid evidence for a 9-A rating. I've been told you're able to tank this point blank in the game so I think a 9-A rating is perfectly fine based on this. I will say the 8-C feat doesn't seem like concretely vaporizing the robot so much as the thing just disappearing when it dies, so I think 9-A is much safer.

This feat also seems entirely acceptable and if I'm not watching the video in completely the wrong way, was tanked at point blank, too. I think both of these provide fairly set-in-stone pieces of evidence for 9-A, and I think it'd be pretty hard to reject them given the two give a consistent basis for 9-A. So... what's the hold up on this, at the moment?
 
I'm fine with the first calculation for 9-A, but I recalculated the second example and got Wall level+. And the real hold up was scaling characters from weapons that blatantly vaporize them. Those examples are at least better feats, but getting vaped is an anti-feat.
 
Could I see the recalculation? I may be able to lend an idea on which is more usable. That said, I still think a 9-A an 9-B+ feat lend themselves to a solid 9-A rating with the latter feat as support, if nothing else.
 
The first one is game mechanics and can't be used, it physically damages no one and comes off as an outlier, Wok, DMUA and I all thought that.

The second one was re-evaluated to 9-B.

This has been gone over already and I too don't understand the hold up.
 
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