Team Fortress 2 Revisions Continued

[Livinmeme]

i dont know 9A and man vs machine 9a probaly 8c Higher with desintregation weapon

 

[Jackythejack]

And I will say again that 9-B recalc was never accepted

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This calculatio was the redone of the second one. Also, I recall it being mentioned that the first example was just a gas explosion; which often comes out as just Wall level. Plus it's an awkward game mechanic considering the explosion doesn't even harm anybody.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Okay, I've accepted the scout recalc at a value of 4.12 kg. I'd like to state that Dargoo's calc is equally as legitimate, it's more just a case of using length vs width in a non-realistic explosion. Assuming the vaporization statements are legitimate (I've been told a few times that weapons can vaporize other mercs?) then a 9-B+ supporting feat isn't bad. Could I see the vaporization feats, as in like... instances where they vaporize humans? Or animals too, those also work.

 

[Jackythejack]

Look up general gameplay with the cow mangler and you should get some results. Getting specific clips would be kinda bleh

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Cow Mangler vaporizing people is legit 9-A due to it's ability to vaporize people, it's just that it shouldn't scale to anyone's durability due to that fact that people get vaporized for it.

 

[Jackythejack]

Except the cow mangler doesn't oneshot people. People can take hits from the Mangler

 

[Abstractions]

Except the cow mangler doesn't oneshot people. People can take hits from the Mangler

"The feat of scaling to a vaporizing attack seems paradoxical in nature, how are they in turn able to tank an attack that vaporizes them, and then afterwards be vaporized by it right after? They are only vaporized if they are hit with something vastly above their durability."

 

[Jackythejack]

Okay cool I still don't personally buy that

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Cow Mangler vaporizing people is legit 9-A due to it's ability to vaporize people, it's just that it shouldn't scale to anyone's durability due to that fact that people get vaporized for it.

I'm not sure if I follow with this. I don't think that logic has ever been applied elsewhere. If it is true characters can tank a weapon that is accepted as having the result of vaporizing enemies it kills then I think it's a hard sell to say it shouldn't scale, because they aren't vaporized. If I tank a 8-B sword which has the accepted result of killing people, but then eventually die to the 8-B sword later, I'd still scale. I don't know if vaporization is special in this instance.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Ugarik still mentioned the distinction between heat resistance Vs durability. Plus, it doesn't make much sense for people to be sort of tanking something, only to get completely vaporized after a few hits. Getting vaporized is more than just a "Getting killed by something", it's more like flat out "Overkill". It's also constantly portrayed as a weapon that one-shots everyone. The game mechanics are really inconsistent and same with the cut-scenes.

Though, that thread was never concluded.

 

[Jackythejack]

It doesn't one-shot people in-game; which is where we take most of the material. In cutscenes, well, Ovens mentioned this. Most rockets that one shot take the mercs either by surprise or are crit rockets which deal a shit load more damage than a normal rocket (a crit rocket in game *does* one shot everything tmk)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Could I see where it's portrayed as a one-shot weapon (outside of game, I mean)? Specifically the constantly bit intrigues me, so... I guess get as many examples as possible since a one time thing doesn't seem mightily consistent.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, looking at this video, it kind of looks like an awkward game mechanic rather than vaporization. It turns them into a black silhouette covered in blue fire, and then they disappear. But all enemies disappear when they die. We kind of had similar problems with Super Shotgun from Doom 64 vaporizing enemies.

Also, the wiki says it burns them to ashes which is 221527923 Joules; still 9-A for a 88.3 kg human, but less than the full vaporization. There are plenty of wikis that don't quite no what vaporization means.

 

[Jackythejack]

Revenues disappear overtime when they die but not like that. Ragdolled corpses can stay around for a while.

 

[Torlikoff]

It doesn't seem like burning to ashes to me given the footage you showed. There's no ashy remains or anything like that and the wiki calls it vaporization many times.

 

[The_Smashor]

Corpses stick around for a bit, while vaporization weapons leave no body behind the instant the animation is over.

Vaporization seems good to me.

 

[Schwxnz]

I've definitely seem some footage where two enemies have been vaporized with the same shot; would that upgrade the vaporizing weaponry from 0.07 - 0.14 tons of TNT?

There might even be footage where three enemies have been vaporized with the same shot, but I'd need to search for that.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Should we take a vote?

I think all arguments on both sides have already been said and done.

 

[Livinmeme]

someone can calc the speed of the short circuit becuase probaly shoot electrycity via air

 

[Schwxnz]

Machine generated electricity is Mach 1.6

 

[Livinmeme]

well that can give a upgrade in speed

 

[Livinmeme]

and every mercenary should had inmortalyty tipe 2 because he can survive a monster of bread is in chest soldier literaly in a point was arranced the spinal and scout was punch so hard than he has not blood

 

[Livinmeme]

[1]

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I know it's consistent for them to still be talking even after head decapitation or them being conscious despite internal organs being removed, but those are often throwaway gags. Still something that cannot be ignored. Immortality type 2 is possible.

 

[Genericstickman]

Shouldn't Sniper also have limited pain resistance?

 

[Livinmeme]

i meant every mercenary should have limited pain resistance

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

i meant every mercenary should have limited pain resistance

Yeah despite their presumably soon to be Wall Level+ stats they are ones to still take an ordeal of terrible punishment and still keep going (Most of the time so limited could be correct.), Also I like to point out Scouts stamina is REALLY downplay-ish in a way it should just be just as High if not Higher then that given despite the belief in being a glass cannon from the rest of the Mercs he literally drinks from hazardous energy drinks just for kicks (Quiet literally.) And does just as strenuous sequences/performances should warrant this at the very freaking least.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Can we at least settle is is for and against 9-A mercs? I feel like the arguments for 9-A have been too compelling to ignore.

 

[Torlikoff]

Does a vote really supercede logic here? If you are voting I'm for 9-A.

 

[Jackythejack]

obviously for 9-A mercs

 

[WeeklyBattles]

9-A mercs has long since been debunked. They are 9-B and no evidence has been brought up to support anything higher with anything other than weapons

 

[The_Smashor]

Oh man. It's almost like they can take hits from said weapons or something.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Here are the facts as I see them.

Personally, I think that 9-B is a gross downplay of the mercs especially since the basis of this is that they're glass cannons.

We have so much more substantial evidence that proves that they can take what they dish out, like rocket launchers being invented as a mode of transportation, weapons in-game not instantly one-shotting people unless it's a crit, headshot, or backstab, and the cinematics being very Red biased.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Oh man. It's almost like they can take hits from said weapons or something.

How many times does this need to be said? It makes no sense whatsoever for them to scale to weapons that can physically vaporize them.

 

[The_Smashor]

But why though? Why does that not make sense?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Here are the facts as I see them.

Personally, I think that 9-B is a gross downplay of the mercs especially since the basis of this is that they're glass cannons.

We have so much more substantial evidence that proves that they can take what they dish out, like rocket launchers being invented as a mode of transportation, weapons in-game not instantly one-shotting people unless it's a crit, headshot, or backstab, and the cinematics being very Red biased.

Rocket jumping was calced at 9-B. It makes zero sense for them to simultaneously be vaporized by weapons and also be able to tank the same weapons.

 

[Jackythejack]

Pretty sure Bambu said it was alright becuase we don't hold that standard to like, anything else as far as I'm concerned/know

 

[WeeklyBattles]

But why though? Why does that not make sense?

Because the weapon vaporizes them? Because it would be physically impossible for them to be able to simultanouesly survive said weapon and also be reduced to ash by the same weapon? Really not sure whats so hard to understand

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I had your clac doctored by DMUA and he said to just use the full extent of the explosion. Bambu agreed with this notion.