Team Fortress 2 Revisions Continued

[WeeklyBattles]

> gravity in tf2 is 310 times grater than on Earth

...?

 

[The_Smashor]

JonTron - Citation needed

 

[Ugarik]

Free fall acceleration in tf2 is 800 HU/s^2. Since HU is 1.904 cm is equal to 15.232 m/s^2 or 1.55 g.

Soldier's rockets move at 1100 HU/s or 20.944 m/s

Real rocket move at 294 m/s. If the divede it by soldiers rocket speed we will get 14.04. That means that in tf2 time goes 14.04 times slower

To get the actual free fall acceleration we need to multiply it by 14.04^2 because 1.55 g is only how strong we see it on screen. 1. 55^14.04^2 = 305 g.

Okay it's a little weaker than 310 g sorry about that wankery

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Ugarik, was that some kind of joke? I mean, visually free falling faster than a lightning bolt and using that for a KE calculation or a planet's gravity sounds like wank. Also, that's still a joke compared to the canonical gravity of Zebes.

 

[KLOL506]

Dark is right. Unless outright stated by the game, gravity is to be assumed as the same as Earth

 

[Ugarik]

Okay than how about Demoman swinging his axe at supersonic speed. That's exactly how Super Smash Bros got their Class M and High 7-A AP

 

[WeeklyBattles]

We dont use KE for human-sized weapons

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We only calculate KE for swinging weapons if the object is Class 1 or above levels of mass. Though, using the KE of bullets is also fine.

 

[Ugarik]

that hammer was at athletic human level

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

TBF, I do think that Dedede calc was Calc Stacking similar to Kirby turning into a 100 ton safe and falling faster than a lightning bolt was. High 7-A actually comes from the mini Moon crashing, which I think is fine.

 

[Abstractions]

Okay than how about Demoman swinging his axe at supersonic speed. That's exactly how Super Smash Bros got their Class M and High 7-A AP

Would that not be calc stacking?

Also, could someone link me the thread of which their speed ratings were accepted just for clarification? As the calc attached to their Subsonic speed doesn't appear to have ever been accepted.

 

[Schwxnz]

LordXCano more or less accepted the calc here.

Amelia Lonelyheart accepted the calc in the comments of the blog as well.

Also, several staff members defended the calc here.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The first one uses a lot of outdated methods for certain calculations. And the Bonk one still seems iffy.

Also, the second example is just not even a debate. The OP in the second example was just comparing their speeds via pixel scaling and low-balling them all the way to Normal Human levels. SuperHuman speeds or even Subsonic via comparing them to the rockets is fine, but Normal human speeds is just BS. It's just Scout being Supersonic when we don't actually see him outpace any bullets or trains is what's iffy.

 

[Abstractions]

Not sure how we treat Xcano's opinion on things as of current.

Amelia also said in the thread you linked that she was unsure if the current calc could be used based on the fact it compares in-game speed to weapon firing speeds, which Ryu also said that he was fine if there was other issues with it that made it unusable.

Other people besides Typh had disagreements with it too.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Side note, Xcano is the same guy infamous for his Wall level Thanos, Wall level Boros, Street level Superman, and 10 m/s Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

[Kepekley23]

Modern day Josh probably wouldn't approve of the calculation.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Wait who's Josh

 

[Kepekley23]

Xcano, lol.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Ah my bad

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Josh is a common name you know, but yes that is Xcano's name.

 

[Schwxnz]

It's just Scout being Supersonic when we don't actually see him outpace any bullets or trains is what's iffy.

Scout isn't Supersonic because of him dodging bullets; it's because he can throw certain weapons far faster than he can run himself.

Also, he actually dodged the bullets. In Meet the Scout, right from 0:16, you can see that the bullets were actually going to hit him in the legs, but he moves to the sides- while he keeps running forwards and moves his legs behind (as in, moving them a lot higher than one would when normally running) to avoid the bullets.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I already seen the meet the scout video, they appeared to be more like aim dodging.

 

[Schwxnz]

At any rate, Scout's Supersonic rating isn't based on him dodging the bullets regardless, so I suppose that it isn't all that important as it wouldn't change his stats.

 

[Narbund2]

i have a question reagarding pyro's explosion feat.

as you can see in the comics (http://www.teamfortress.com/tf06_thenakedandthedead/#f=129 / http://www.teamfortress.com/tf06_thenakedandthedead/#f=130), pyro isn't particularly far away from the grenade crates, does that change anything?

i'm sorry, i don't know much about the inverse square law.

 

[Livinmeme]

calc about the spycicle converting people in ice figures

 

[WeeklyBattles]

calc about the spycicle converting people in ice figures

Freezing feats are no longr being allowed as AP feats

 

[Livinmeme]

dang

 

[Ugarik]

Besides no one ever can tank this. Phogistonator can quikly turn people into ashes tho

 

[Abstractions]

So if their current speed justifications need to be changed, are there any other speed feats that should be looked at before the pages are revised?

Right now we are looking at "9-B, 8-C with (insert weapon here)" Mercs and Unknow speeds until something can be agreed upon.

Saxton Hale and the Yeti would have to be "At least 9-B, likely higher" for AP based on being much stronger than the Mercs and for fighting each other unless I'm missing something, because we can't scale them to an uneducated statement as we've already discussed.

Saxton's reasons for his speed will also need to be changed, as I've covered that what happened wasn't actually blitzing.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

All mercs can tank the Phog before being incinerated tho.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Abstraction What weapon is 8-C?

Saxton has a 9-A feat

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Did we also forget that the rocket launcher was invented by Abraham Lincoln as an alternative to stairs? Rocket jumping is a canonical thing that people were supposed to tank on a day to day basis.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And yet it canonically kills and can potentially even oneshot them

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yes, with crits.

 

[00potato]

??? Soldier can survive rocket jumping and it is employed frequently. Also none of the in game weapons should be 8-C if the Merc's are tier 9 as Heavy's fists would scale.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Regular non-crit rockets can still kill them and in the animations Scout was nearly killed by a rocket landing near him

 

[Schwxnz]

@Weekly, these weapons are 8-C due to being capable of vaporizing giant robots:

Scout: Batsaber, C.A.P.P.E.R

Soldier: Cow Mangler 5000, Righteous Biso

Pyro: Phlogistinator, Manmelter, Neon Annihilator, Third Degree

Demoman: None

Heavy: None

Engineer: Pomson 6000, C.A.P.P.E.R, Short Circuit

Medic: None

Sniper: Shooting Star

Spy: None

@Abstractions, how's it not blitzing? Scout had enough time to look at the whole area and could tell Heavy that there wasn't any australium left yet he wasn't capable of evading the rope that Margaret threw at him.

Other than that, he has an subsonic feat in the comics and he should generally not be dramatically inferior to the mercs.

 

[00potato]

They don't kill immediately. Usually at lower health. Also which clip are you referring to? Scout is tied for squishiest class anyway so it might not matter.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

They don't kill immediately. Usually at lower health. Also which clip are you referring to? Scout is tied for squishiest class anyway so it might not matter.

Meet the Medic. It also nearly killed Demmoman

 

[Schwxnz]

To be fair, Scout and Demoman were already highly wounded in Meet the Medic.

Also, Soldier canonically rocket-jumps on a daily basis - it's even shown in Meet the Soldier.