TF2 upgrade back to 9-A and new calculation

[Jason_Courne]

New calculation

• Fragmenting robots: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Jason_Courne/TF2:_Fragmenting_robots
• Soldier tanking a small tank exploding: 86.5 kilograms of tnt
• The Rocket Specalist upgraded rockets: 6.8 kilograms of tnt
• The Black Box can reduce people to ash: 57.3 to 61 kilograms of tnt

Scout’s explosion / Gravel War​

Definitions of the possibly rating:

Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly.

We know without a doubt, Scout survived those rockets while injured, only losing a tooth in the process. There is absolutely no level of vagueness whether or not Scout survived the explosion. Soldier can also survive a small tank exploding without taking any damage

As such, At least Wall level, possibly Small Building level should be replaced by just Small Building level

Small Building level (Capable of harming the other classes with their various weapons), higher with power ups
Small Building level (Can survive pipe grenades, rockets, gunfire. Comparable to the Scout, who has survived the explosion of three combined rockets while heavily injured, only losing a tooth in the process. Comparable to Soldier who can survive a small tank exploding ), higher with Power Ups

57.3 to 61 kilograms of tnt = Gravel War Mercenaries > Heavily Injured Scout ≈ 7 kilograms of TNT

Team Fortress Classic​

Adding justification to why the Classics scale to the TF2s, we should also remove their 1930s key since it's just an unncessary addition

At least Small Building level (An elite team of mercenaries, they spent six months hunting down the Administrator’s best, with the TF2 crew considered rejects and the laughing stock of the mercenary world, only losing due to the mercenaries no longer having souls. Their weapons are still capable of harming the post-Gravel War mercenaries)

Classic Mercenaries >>> 57.3 to 61 kilograms of tnt = Gravel War Mercenaries > Heavily Injured Scout ≈ 7 kilograms of TNT

Robot War​

As previously stated, the Gravel War Mercenaries were the complete laughing stock of the mercenary war, rejects compared to the Administrator’s best, yet they managed to defeat and kill the Classic mercenaries

Anyways, onto new a calculation for the Robot War Mercenaries, the Mercenaries are capable of easily destroying Grayman’s robots (Keep in mind they are regularly one shotting those robots and killing them by the dozen), including the Giant Robots and tanks when working together

At least Small Building level (Far superior to before, defeated and killed the Classic Mercenaries. Could easily destroy and fragment Grayman’s robots and Giant Robots as well as his tanks)

Robot War / Post-Gravel War Mercenaries ≥ Classic Mercenaries >>> 57.3 to 61 kilograms of tnt = Gravel War Mercenaries > Heavily Injured Scout ≈ 7 kilograms of TNT

---

Agree: @DarkDragonMedeus, @Abstractions (prefers at most 9-A for Gravel War) @Eficiente (disagrees with using Panzer Pants taunt), @Lonkitt (Also disagrees with the Panzer Pants taunt)

Disagree:

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm okay with this.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Anybody gonna mention that 8-C calc where Heavy derailed an entire train?

 

[Abstractions]

We know without a doubt, Scout survived those rockets while injured, only losing a tooth in the process. There is absolutely no level of vagueness whether or not Scout survived the explosion.

The correct term would probably be "At most" as opposed to possibly if it's in no uncertain terms, but rather something that clearly is enough to put him out of the fight (which is what happened).

The rest is fine, I suppose.

Anybody gonna mention that 8-C calc where Heavy derailed an entire train?

The train derailment stuff is a part of a non-canon video.

 

[Livinmeme]

The train derailment stuff is a part of a non-canon video.

Proof?

 

[Greatsage13th]

The train derailment stuff is a part of a non-canon video.

Evidence please.

 

[Abstractions]

Proof?

Evidence please.

That's not how this works, you need to provide evidence that it is canon when it isn't currently accepted as such and hasn't been for a long time.

Either way, it's best that neither of you derail with this subject matter and deal with what is at hand, rather than attempting to clutter a CRT with random information. I don't appreciate it, surely the OP doesn't appreciate it either.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Think this is the calc, it also contains an argument for why it is canon

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Abstractions, it's the opposite that requires proof. It needs proof it is canon, not proof something isn't canon.

 

[Livinmeme]

That's not how this works, you need to provide evidence that it is canon when it isn't currently accepted as such and hasn't been for a long time.

We have the fact that
A. It was directly used as a promotional for the ingame items
B. It was used to promote the update
C. The items added, are directly ripped off from the video (QUITE LITERALLY)
INB4. B-But that means that joke items would be canon!?!?!
There is a difference between an entire video promoted by valve, that has foot prints on the game, to a fuarking Prinny hat (TF2 2-A when?)

 

[Livinmeme]

Also it is literally on the fuarking TF2 page..Unless you think that being on the official page isn't enough to make it official

 

[Greatsage13th]

I agree with Abstractions, it's the opposite that requires proof. It needs proof it is canon, not proof something isn't canon.

Except-she's the one making the claim that it isn't canon without evidence while we haven't made our own claim-.

 

[Abstractions]

Also it is literally on the fuarking TF2 page..Unless you think that being on the official page isn't enough to make it official

Community projects being placed on the front page doesn't render them added into official canon, and are added into the game as an appreciation for the craft that goes into these fan projects and not necessarily a statement on their validity in the story itself.

Except-she's the one making the claim that it isn't canon without evidence while we haven't made our own claim-.

It is currently the standard that it isn't canon, and when you come in to bring up the Heavy feat you are doing so in the assertion that it is, in which I make the statement that it isn't and you'd need proof for that.

Again, this is off-topic. Focus your attention on the matter at hand.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Except-she's the one making the claim that it isn't canon without evidence while we haven't made our own claim-.

You're asking her to proof a negative here.

 

[Livinmeme]

Community projects being placed on the front page doesn't render them added into official canon, and are added into the game as an appreciation for the craft that goes into these fan projects and not necessarily a statement on their validity in the story itself.

Why? It is promoted, an entire update is behind it....And your argument is that it doesn't matter...On a game where half of is lore comes from fan shenanigans??? Just the shear fact of being added should make it canon, the argument of "appreciation" only justifies the reasoning (because by that logic asspulls wouldn't be canon, because it goes against the author wishes or some BS like that), nothing more, nothing less

It is currently the standard that it isn't canon, and when you come in to bring up the Heavy feat you are doing so in the assertion that it is, in which I make the statement that it isn't and you'd need proof for that.

Again, this is off-topic. Focus your attention on the matter at hand.

That doesn't make sense desu, it is promoted, it is added...Yet it isn't considered canon? How the hell can it be considered as canon, where not even being on the game makes it canon. It sounds more like refussal of making something made by a fan canon here....

 

[Greatsage13th]

You're asking her to proof a negative here.

What's wrong with proving a negative?

 

[Livinmeme]

By that logic half of Wizardry 4 doesn't exist

 

[Greatsage13th]

By that logic half of Wizardry 4 doesn't exist

What?

 

[Livinmeme]

What?

Wizardry 4, continuation of the Wizardry saga. My point is basically all of the random encounters you fight, are compositions made by the fans

 

[Greatsage13th]

Wizardry 4, continuation of the Wizardry saga. My point is basically all of the random encounters you fight, are compositions made by the fans

Got it

 

[Abstractions]

Also it is literally on the fuarking TF2 page..Unless you think that being on the official page isn't enough to make it official

Robotic Boogaloo was on the official page as well, yet I'm pretty sure most agree that also isn't canon either, or at least a different timeline. So that doesn't matter.

I really don't like to be the person that deletes comments and busts people's chops, but I will if this continuously devolves. So please stick to the subject.

 

[Livinmeme]

Robotic Boogaloo was on the official page as well, yet I'm pretty sure most agree that also isn't canon either, or at least a different timeline. So that doesn't matter.

Robotic Boogalo is a bunch of non-canon nonsense, that it doesn't take himself seriously, there is another reason on why not take it as a canon.....

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

What's wrong with proving a negative?

Burden of Proof Fallacy. If there is no proof that video is canon, we do not use it. It's evidence of it being canon that requires evidence, not the other way around. Need to prove the video the 8-C feat came from was canon.

 

[Livinmeme]

Burden of Proof Fallacy. If there is no proof that video is canon, we do not use it. It's evidence of it being canon that requires evidence, not the other way around.

I think it being included in the game...In two different ways, would be enough to be considered canon....Specially if it has A WHOLE UPDATE BEHIND IT

 

[MinecraftHater2011]

Could this 9-A calc for the Panzer Pants taunt scale to the Gravel War mercs?

The train derailment stuff is a part of a non-canon video.

Well, there is this Easter egg on the tie-in map that references the stealth pigeon bomb from End of the Line, which might help canonize End of the Line. But whether or not End of the Line's canon, this thread's about 9-A TF2 and not 8-C TF2, so this will (hopefully) be my only reply regarding the train derailment calc lmao.

 

[Jason_Courne]

The correct term would probably be "At most" as opposed to possibly if it's in no uncertain terms, but rather something that clearly is enough to put him out of the fight (which is what happened).

The feat was performed by an injured Scout, who the rest of the team should upscale, so they should get just a normal Small Building rating, right?

Could this 9-A calc for the Panzer Pants taunt scale to the Gravel War mercs?

This
I think it would apply to the Gravel War mercs primarily

 

[Jason_Courne]

I just remembered something I forgot to put in the original post. Uber Charge makes the characters immune to all damage, so shouldn't it upscale the Cow Mangler and Manmelter into Building level+ durability? (a 1.05x difference)

Every class would be affected by this in their Robot War key since they all have access to the Uber Canteens

 

[Thelastmlg]

ubercharge is invulnerability, it doesn't have a tier

 

[ShionAH]

Inv is basically High 3-A dura instantly iirc

do we consider medic not being able to attack while ubering game mechanic?

 

[Thelastmlg]

Inv is basically High 3-A dura instantly iirc

do we consider medic not being able to attack while ubering game mechanic?

i don't think so, he needs to activacte the ubercharge with his medigun, and since we never see it doing anything ever while put out, neither in game or out of it, i don't think we can assume it is on while hidden

the uber meter does keep running off but that might be related to his medipack since that's where the ubercharge is "prepared" and so it is wasted

 

[ShionAH]

i don't think so, he needs to activacte the ubercharge with his medigun, and since we never see it doing anything ever while put out, neither in game or out of it, i don't think we can assume it is on while hidden

I mean all he has to do is hold onto it, Mercs simply being incapable of duel wielding is really weird

 

[Thelastmlg]

I mean all he has to do is hold onto it, Mercs simply being incapable of duel wielding is really weird

i think double yielding is fine, just think that him being able to use it while it is not in his hands might be a stretch as the only example we have is the games where it doesn't work

 

[TheGatememer]

Well shit, guess this was going to happen sooner or later.

I have some more calcs to bring to the table.

 

[TheGatememer]

Soldier Panzer Pants Explosion: 0.0865 Tons

Rocket Specialist Rockets: 0.0068 Tons (Needs evaluation, but is a simple multiplier calc)

The Black Box can reduce things to ash: 0.0573 - 0.061 Tons (More of a supporting feat)

 

[Jason_Courne]

Soldier Panzer Pants Explosion: 0.0865 Tons
Rocket Specialist Rockets: 0.0068 Tons (Needs evaluation, but is a simple multiplier calc)
The Black Box can reduce things to ash: 0.0573 - 0.061 Tons (More of a supporting feat)

Ok yeah, I'll add those since 9-A TF2 was already accepted

 

[Jason_Courne]

.

.

I just updated the post with some other calculations, bumping the verse to 86.5 kilograms of tnt from Soldier's Panzer Pants taunt. Could I get your thoughts on the upgrade?

 

[TheGatememer]

I just updated the post with some other calculations, bumping the verse to 86.5 kilograms of tnt from Soldier's Panzer Pants taunt. Could I get your thoughts on the upgrade?

Well in my mind, the scaling chain would go: TF2 Mercenaries (Robot War / Post-Robot War) > TFC Mercenaries > TF2 Mercenaries (Gravel War) / Soldier > 86.5 KG of TNT

So basically just your scaling chain, but replace the Meet the Medic calc, and injured scout, with the Panzer Pants calc, and Soldier

 

[CBslayeR]

Is it possible to get the mercs a 3x AP amp via critical hits?

 

[Livinmeme]

Well shit, guess this was going to happen sooner or later.

I have some more calcs to bring to the table.

ENTER

 

[Jason_Courne]

Bump