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Team Fortress 2 Revisions Continued

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Yeah, the falling damage is a bad example, but there's plenty of cut-scene examples above + difference between blunt force trauma and heat.
 
Schwxnz said:
snip

To support the fact that Saxton is far above the mercs, they are nothing but subnormal men in his eyes and Margaret - who Saxton directly scales to - casually dominated Heavy in a tug of war

TLDR; IMO Saxton should be upgraded to "Possibly 8-A" via beating the Yeti in the comics.
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Scout literally told Heavy to let go because the two playing tug of war with a rope around his neck would have killed him, there was no "casual domination" there.

Even if Saxton were far above the mercs, there is absolutely nothing to support him being many OOM above them that he can withstand nuclear bombs.

If we went by "nothing on Earth would stop them" as evidence for being able to withstand nukes, then we should start upgrading The Thing and other characters to 8-A to 7-B. But we won't do that, because that would be ridiculous.
 
Heavy was still putting in visible effort, whereas Margaret wasn't and she quickly overpowered him regardless.

What does OOM mean?

These two cases aren't really comparable. The Thing would have been virtually unstoppable via its possession, whereas the Yeti doesn't have anything like that.
 
Schwxnz said:
Heavy was still putting in visible effort, whereas Margaret wasn't and she quickly overpowered him regardless.

Also, what does OOM mean?
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Yes, but Heavy visibly putting in effort =/= being dominated, he was told to let go by Scout so it wouldn't kill him, simple as that.

Not that this would be a demonstration of AP anyway, but rather Lifting Strength.
 
Domination was the wrong word; however she was still casually on the winning side in the tug of war.

I am aware of that - Jungle Inferno is already a demonstration of the fact that Saxton outclasses the mercs AP-wise - however it still proves that Saxton is far above the mercs.

As a whole, we've got him casually one-shotting a Yeti, whose one-shotted Soldier, Pyro and Sniper in return; as well as scaling to Margaret to blitzed Scout and was casually stronger than Heavy in a tug of war.
 
Schwxnz said:
Domination was the wrong word; however she was still casually on the winning side in the tug of war.

I am aware of that - Jungle Inferno is already a demonstration of the fact that Saxton outclasses the mercs AP-wise - however it still proves that Saxton is far above the mercs.

As a whole, we've got him casually one-shotting a Yeti, whose one-shotted Soldier, Pyro and Sniper in return; as well as scaling to Margaret to blitzed Scout and was casually stronger than Heavy in a tug of war.
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Being superior to 9-Bs isn't enough evidence for 8-A.

Also, the Yeti in the comics was a different story than Jungle Inferno, as then Saxton had actually not casually killed the Yeti and was actually getting beaten up by it.

Also, what blitzing? Nothing you have shown has demonstrated that.
 
I never said that? I was just responding to the "Even if Saxton were far above the mercs [...]" part.

That is true, however Saxton wasn't visibly injured after the fight against the Yeti - http://www.teamfortress.com/tf01_ring_of_fired/#f=6 - which does kinda imply that he let it attack him. Also; that would be somewhat consistent, as Saxton performs any feats that are relatively on par with the ones from the mercs with absolute ease, whereas he actually had to put in a bit of effort for this feat.


http://www.teamfortress.com/tf04_blood_in_the_water/#f=48
 
Schwxnz said:
I never said that? I was just responding to the "Even if Saxton were far above the mercs [...]" part.

That is true, however Saxton wasn't visibly injured after the fight against the Yeti - http://www.teamfortress.com/tf01_ring_of_fired/#f=6 - which does kinda imply that he let it attack him. Also; that would be somewhat consistent, as Saxton performs any feats that are relatively on par with the ones from the mercs with absolute ease, whereas he actually had to put in a bit of effort for this feat.


http://www.teamfortress.com/tf04_blood_in_the_water/#f=48
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You are trying to upgrade him to 8-A though.

You mean, Saxton was fine after the Yeti was taxidermized completely? A process that can take weeks? Of course he was fine, given a significant time period had passed.

That isn't blitzing.
 
Yeah, but I am trying to do that via the Yeti feat from the comics; not the one from Jungle Inferno. I simply used the feat from Jungle Inferno to prove that Saxton is far above the mercs.

I vaguely remember that it has been hinted that Saxton fought the Yeti and flew back to Mann Co. directly afterwards. There isn't much to suggest that Saxton has been away for several weeks; his reasoning for not helping the mercs was literally "I'd help, but as you can see I will be fighting a Yeti for nine more hours" and not "I'd help, but as you can see I will be fighting a Yeti for nine more hours and wait until the Yeti will be completely taxidermized".
 
Schwxnz said:
Yeah, but I am trying to do that via the Yeti feat from the comics; not the one from Jungle Inferno. I simply used the feat from Jungle Inferno to prove that Saxton is far above the mercs.

I vaguely remember that it has been hinted that Saxton fought the Yeti and flew back to Mann Co. directly afterwards. There isn't much to suggest that Saxton has been away for several weeks; his reasoning for not helping the mercs was literally "I'd help, but as you can see I will be fighting a Yeti for nine more hours" and not "I'd help, but as you can see I will be fighting a Yeti for nine more hours and wait until the Yeti will be completely taxidermized".
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Except Saxton would have had to been away for a significant time period as he himself said he had it stuffed, as taxidermy takes days for a small pet like a cat, let alone a rare, full-sized ape.

It's also clear that in the comic that the fight was hardly one-sided, Saxton was bleeding and was getting his ass beat on the recording, regardless of him eventually killing it.
 
Sure, but TF2 hardly relies on logic. It's entirely possible that Saxton did the taxidermination all by himself.

First off, I've never said that the fight was one-sided, secondly while Saxton was bleeding, he didn't even flinch when the Yeti bit him in the arm and completely no-selled the attack.

The fact that the Yeti drew blood from him is also somewhat consistent, as nothing apart from it ever came remotely close to do something like that.
 
Schwxnz said:
Sure, but TF2 hardly relies on logic. It's entirely possible that Saxton did the taxidermination all by himself.

First off, I've never said that the fight was one-sided, secondly while Saxton was bleeding, he didn't even flinch when the Yeti bit him in the arm and completely no-selled the attack.

The fact that the Yeti drew blood from him is also somewhat consistent, as nothing apart from it ever came remotely close to do something like that.
Click to expand...
That would require more assumptions than what is already put in front of us.

Not flinching is pain resistance, it's clear that the Yeti was able to puncture and thus hurt him, it isn't negating or "no-selling".

Has Saxton ever been shot at ever by anyone? We certainly haven't witnessed it ever.
 
Good point, however all of that doesn't really have much to do with the feat itself.

I mean, Saxton would've at least somewhat reacted if it hurt him - however the Yeti did definitely have the potential to hurt him, as highly implied at the end of the recording, where the Yeti barely misses him. However, I don't think that I've ever said that Saxton stomped the Yeti; I'm aware of the fact that the fight was close - otherwise Saxton wouldn't have needed 8 hours to finally beat the Yeti.

No, he hasn't. That said, none of his other feats have had him being hurt in any way; the worst thing that ever happened to him was getting his shirt ripped by panthers.
 
Schwxnz said:
I mean, Saxton would've at least somewhat reacted if it hurt him - however the Yeti did definitely have the potential to hurt him, as highly implied at the end of the recording, where the Yeti barely misses him. However, I don't think that I've ever said that Saxton stomped the Yeti; I'm aware of the fact that the fight was close - otherwise Saxton wouldn't have needed 8 hours to finally beat the Yeti.

No, he hasn't. That said, none of his other feats have had him being hurt in any way; the worst thing that ever happened to him was getting his shirt ripped by panthers.
Click to expand...
He's covered in scratches and bleeding, the last image we see of him is on the ground, there's a clear implication of injury meaning he is hurt, regardless of how receptive he is to pain itself.

All in all, it's clear he isn't impervious to harm, let alone strong enough to tank nukes. So Tier 8 Saxton is out of the question.
 
I don't see how beating an Tier 8 Yeti after a long fight means that you aren't Tier 8 yourself. Especially when said Yeti is the only thing that ever did any visible harm to him.
 
Is it possible to backscale? Even though the mercs got stomped by the Yeti they still seemed fairly fine afterwardswith no fatal injuries (except Soldier but he seemed unfazed by his situation)
 
Schwxnz said:
I don't see how beating an Tier 8 Yeti after a long fight means that you aren't Tier 8 yourself. Especially when said Yeti is the only thing that ever did any visible harm to him.
Click to expand...
Because the Yeti isn't Tier 8 as there is nothing supporting it, the only feat it has is a one-off statement and fighting with someone that hasn't ever been shot at who happens to be stronger than 9-Bs.
 
I agree that we can't exaggerate Saxton or the Yeti too much based on stuff to0 speculative. Such as being "Immune to every weapon". They probably just mean there's no way to stop the Yeti without endangering the environment. And I already addressed that both of them absolutely fodderized the mercenaries without even trying, so they really shouldn't scale from Yeti. 9-A Yeti and Saxton is still consistent as I doubt RPG-7 could harm them given the statements.
 
Alright, sounds fair. Do the Yeti and Saxton scale to the 9-A Version of the RPG-7 then, or are they just baseline? Also, you've mentioned that there's a new Bullet immunity calculation that is also 9-A; could that be applied to them as well? The Yeti being immune to bullets isn't stretching it nearly as much as it being nuke-proof.
 
Well, we don't really use Bullet immunity comparing a bullet to a fist either, DT says we just use a composite bullet (Fastest muzzle velocity combined with highest bullet mass) for bullet immunity, which was simply high up in 9-B. But scaling them to the high end RPG-7 or just under 96 Megajoules is fine for those two.
 
Can Sniper's range be upgraded on account of this? He was going to run five miles away and shoot BLU Spy before the latter called him out on that.
 
Shouldn't spy have one hit kill or at least durability ignoring?
 
OTK doesn't exist anymore and durability ignoring for what, backstabs? It doesn't allow them to bypass Razorback, so I would say no.
 
Back stabbing is not durability negation, that's more like a game mechanic. But I don't mind pressure points or Acupuncture.
 
I'm neutral, leaning toward disagree on the backstab being durability negation (Although the backstab instantly killing opponents is shown in the cinematics). Acupuncture or pressure points definitely seem more accurate, though.
 
So if we're just talking about abilities now is there anything left to discuss for AP? Or are we good to revise the profiles?
 
There is still something left.

http://web.archive.org/web/20160505...utoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/tf2-calcs.35582/

"1. Soldier's Rocket Launcher fireball. http://i.imgur.com/gS35Liz.jpg

According to this: https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/2fheva/til_mercs_height/ Soldier's height is 180.3 cm. Here is not his full height since he is crouching. And since I dunno how tall is crouching Soldier, I'll just use standing/crouching ratio from Sniper: http://i.imgur.com/A9n0CTL.jpg

649/759*1.803=1.54 meters (crouching Soldier's height)

Fireball diameter = 2.09 meters, radius = 1.04 meters

According to this: http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/ABC_Weapons/Nuke_Effects_Calculator.htm it takes 0.00002 kilotons (0.02 tons) to get a groundburst fireball radius of 1 meter. Small building level, scales to anyone, since everyone can take at least one blast."

Sure, the usage of the Nuke Calculator isn't legit, but doesn't the result just get cut in half then? 0.01 tons of TNT is still 9-A.
 
We don't use that formula; we have our own formula for calculating explosions. Which the Over-pressure barring only makes it 9-B at best. And our basic explosion formula is even less and just plain 9-B.
 
The Explosion Yield calculation is Y = ((x/0.28)^3) where X is the radius in km and Y is the yield in kilotons

1.04 m = 0.00104 km

Y = ((0.00104/0.28)^3) = 5.12419825e-8 kt = 0.0000512419825 tons, 214396.45478 Joules
 
First one was already calced at 9-B and it nearly killed Scout and thus wouldnt scale to anyone
 
No? That is an explosion from Meet the Medic, even in the request for it its said to be from Meet the Medic
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Comparing it to the rockets for KE sounds like Calc Stacking. And it's not realistic for them to fall faster than terminal velocity speeds.
Click to expand...
It has been concluded here that such methods are allowed. By the way gravity in tf2 is 310 times grater than on Earth if we use this merhod so we might ungrade their lifting strength too
 
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