Versus Saxton Hale Ability Additions (Sylvia the Seal solos your verse)

[Shmooply]

THE NAME'S SAXTON HALE. CEO OF MANN CO., AND THE ONE WHO'S GOING TO BURN THIS PLACE TO THE GROUND!!
TF2's summer update finally dropped, and with it came confirmation that the VSH gamemode is finally becoming canon, which gives Saxton some dead simple abilities.

Acrobatics - The most important addition of all, Saxton Hale can jump incredibly high in the air with BRAVE JUMP!

Statistics Amplification - Via Sweeping Charge, Saxton Hale can empower his next punch (that also apparently deals 55% of the target's total health according to the wiki), and Saxton Punch! (Which can finish off almost overhealed Battalion's Backup soldiers according to the official wiki)

Shockwave Creation - Via Mighty Slam and Saxton Punch!

Limited Flight - Sweeping Charge allows Saxton to do this and this.

Possible Resistance to Radiation Manipulation - Saxton Hale is seemingly unaffected by a massive pool of toxic, radioactive waste, which can kill the other mercenaries quickly.

Minor Surface Scaling - All of the mercenaries can climb up walls using their melee weapons.

There's also the Last Mann Standing mechanic, but honestly I think this is more of a game mechanic to help whatever remaining players there are in dealing with Saxton, rather than an actual ability they have, similar to the random crit boosts that the winning team gets at the end of an average Team Fortress 2 match.

 

[Flashlight237]

I think you kinda undersold him; the TF2 General Discussion thread had more Saxton Hale abilities, plus his tiering could be looked at, I mean dude can one-shot many mercs. Pyro's durability is 0.0658 tons as of the Robot Wars and Saxton can one-shot that.

 

[Shmooply]

yea but this is the ability additions thread not the scaling thread

 

[Shmooply]

the TF2 General Discussion thread had more Saxton Hale abilities

Also this is just outright wrong. I listed all the abilities except the Death Manipulation stuff.

 

[CuteAnimeNekoGirl99]

There are some things to add tbh. Brave Jump is actually a double jump meaning it would fall under the category of limited flight as well

Saxton Hale has a taunt kill that instantly kills any merc in front of him similar to Heavy's show down taunt. Also with RPS

Idk if the Saxton punch is more of an explosion compared to a shockwave

Saxton has some form of regeneration going on for him given he can recover from decapitation several times over

Also the Saxton Punch more falls under damage boost since it increases the actual damage from the punch and not his entire physicality. which makes sense as it is a critical hit

 

[Shmooply]

There are some things to add tbh. Brave Jump is actually a double jump meaning it would fall under the category of limited flight as well

I've seen double jumps be listed as Acrobatics, so /shrug

Saxton has some form of regeneration going on for him given he can recover from decapitation several times over

No clue what to make of this really, and it'd probably break TF2 scaling considering we're assuming that Demoman can somehow chop Saxton's head off, even though it's obvious his head is definitely as sturdy as the rest of his body.

Also the Saxton Punch more falls under damage boost since it increases the actual damage from the punch and not his entire physicality. which makes sense as it is a critical hit

Fair enough, considering it fits the criteria for Damage Boost.

Also with RPS

Not really? It's a strange case, because unless you want to argue that Hale somehow resists Death Manipulation, Hale doesn't die if he loses a RPS duel, and instead takes a lot of damage. It's a similar case to Spy's backstab where the guy who won just deals a ridiculous amount of damage that the loser's body combusts. Would rather wait to hear the opinions of others regarding this.

 

[CuteAnimeNekoGirl99]

Not really? It's a strange case, because unless you want to argue that Hale somehow resists Death Manipulation, Hale doesn't die if he loses a RPS duel, and instead takes a lot of damage. It's a similar case to Spy's backstab where the guy who won just deals a ridiculous amount of damage that the loser's body combusts. Would rather wait to hear the opinions of others regarding this.

huh. I thought he did just straight-up die in RPS could be related with the ingame mechanic of Hale where higher the player count higher the Health he has

 

[Flashlight237]

No clue what to make of this really, and it'd probably break TF2 scaling considering we're assuming that Demoman can somehow chop Saxton's head off, even though it's obvious his head is definitely as sturdy as the rest of his body.

I mean, being fair, while I don't know how effective a broken glass bottle is in terms of piercing damage, Demoman does have a few bladed Secondaries to pick from. Blades typically have smaller area of impact due to how sharp they are, which can make them more effective than blunt force impacts.

 

[CuteAnimeNekoGirl99]

Any thoughts on Saxton possibly having explosion manipulation due to the saxton punch? I might calc that

 

[Flashlight237]

Any thoughts on Saxton possibly having explosion manipulation due to the saxton punch? I might calc that

Worth a shot, thought I think the results might wind up being a bit underwhelming.

 

[CuteAnimeNekoGirl99]

Oh! also sorry for being a slight bit sporadic with my messages for this thread but it is to note is actually consistent for Australians. This random Australian was able to have his neck snapped and then immediately fixed with no issues. The TFC Heavy also recovered from a broken nose and spine with the use of Australium

All of these are cited from here

 

[ShionAH]

Oh yeah Saxton is now canon, agree with everything! Should we also make the profile for the Security Dog since it is also canon?

 

[Comiphorous]

Oh yeah Saxton is now canon, agree with everything! Should we also make the profile for the Security Dog since it is also canon?

wdym now his ass was always canon.

 

[ShionAH]

Minor Surface Scaling - All of the mercenaries can climb up walls using their melee weapons.

I disagree here though, thats not Surface Scaling not even a minor one

 

[ShionAH]

wdym now his ass was always canon.

I meant gameplay wise lol, please look at ur message wall btw.

 

[Shmooply]

huh. I thought he did just straight-up die in RPS could be related with the ingame mechanic of Hale where higher the player count higher the Health he has

Yea, it's because his health is super low in that short. I'd buy it more as Death Manipulation if there's a video of a super high base HP Hale dying to it.

I mean, being fair, while I don't know how effective a broken glass bottle is in terms of piercing damage, Demoman does have a few bladed Secondaries to pick from. Blades typically have smaller area of impact due to how sharp they are, which can make them more effective than blunt force impacts.

I know the voiceline's talking about the Eyelander, no clue why you're bringing up his stock weapon. And again, Hale's body and head are just fine when faced against other bladed weapons (some of which have serrated edges), I think we can just chalk this up to the devs wanting to make Eyelander and Half-Zatoichi viable for people who wanna play demoknight and the voiceline's just a silly easter egg.

 

[Shmooply]

I disagree here though, thats not Surface Scaling not even a minor one

It quite literally is. They're climbing walls without any handles using their melee weapons, Heavy's literally climbing them using mittens.

 

[ShionAH]

It quite literally is. They're climbing walls without any handles using their melee weapons, Heavy's literally climbing them using mittens.

Climbing isnt surface scaling

"It should be kept in mind that cases of moving along surfaces through sheer momentum or by damaging the walls should not be classified as this ability as they are both simply common consequences of Superhuman Speed and Superhuman strength respectively rather than being distinct powers on their own."

 

[Comiphorous]

Climbing isnt surface scaling

"It should be kept in mind that cases of moving along surfaces through sheer momentum or by damaging the walls should not be classified as this ability as they are both simply common consequences of Superhuman Speed and Superhuman strength respectively rather than being distinct powers on their own."

They aren't doing either of those though. they're punching the wall, and it's lifting them up. they aren't moving up through speed, nor are they punching a hole in the wall and pulling themselves up. they're just going up once punching the wall.

 

[ShionAH]

They aren't doing either of those though. they're punching the wall, and it's lifting them up. they aren't moving up through speed, nor are they punching a hole in the wall and pulling themselves up. they're just going up once punching the wall.

They are pulling themselves up after sticking their weapons to the wall, unless you believe they have some kind of weird extremely specific magic to just jump higher after hitting a wall. I feel like them using the weapons just like how climbers use the pickaxes makes a lot more sense

 

[CBslayeR]

they aren't damaging the walls though, they're kinda just slapping it and going up.

 

[ShionAH]

they aren't damaging the walls though, they're kinda just slapping it and going up.

Which is supposed to represent them grabbing on to the wall and pulling themselves up. Just like how real life climbers do using the ice axes

 

[MinecraftHater2011]

Acrobatics - The most important addition of all, Saxton Hale can jump incredibly high in the air with BRAVE JUMP!

Like mentioned previously in the thread, the Brave Jump's prob more like Limited Flight, but Sax himself should still likely have Acrobatics due to this sequence from the Jungle Inferno trailer where he's seen parkouring on logs/crocodiles and swinging around on vines. He's also seen later in the trailer jumping a few dozen meters in the air with a single leap, which would definitely qualify for Acrobatics if the other feat(s) didn't qualify.

Pyro's durability is 0.0658 tons as of the Robot Wars and Saxton can one-shot that.

Actually, I don't think the mercs scale to 0.06 tons anymore and instead scale to 0.007 tons due to this CRT (that I don't think got added even though it probably should've been).

Yea, it's because his health is super low in that short. I'd buy it more as Death Manipulation if there's a video of a super high base HP Hale dying to it.

Here you go :') But, I'm a little skeptical on giving the RPS taunt Death Manip as I could've sworn I saw a Demoknight with his shield still intact survive a RPS loss from Sax in-game a few days ago. Sax's stock and RPS taunts being able to kill could just be examples of Toon Force or smth; Sax does have "some degree of Toon Force" on his profile after all.

 

[Flashlight237]

Actually, I don't think the mercs scale to 0.06 tons anymore and instead scale to 0.007 tons due to this CRT (that I don't think got added even though it probably should've been).

Hmm. Well testes..!

 

[CuteAnimeNekoGirl99]

oh! Also wouldn't dealing 55% of one's total health be a form of durability negation?

 

[Flashlight237]

oh! Also wouldn't dealing 55% of one's total health be a form of durability negation?

Depends on the mechanics. If defense is straight-up ignored by that 55%, then it probably would qualify. If not, that's just regular damage.

 

[Flashlight237]

Anyway, I'm gonna get down to business and say I agree with the OP here.

 

[Shmooply]

oh yea i should add a vote tally

Anyway, I'm gonna get down to business and say I agree with the OP here.

Your agreement has been officially acquired by Mann Co.

 

[Shmooply]

bump

 

[CBslayeR]

I feel like surface scaling for mercs needs to be looked at a little bit, someone put scans since all I have to go off is freak fortress 2 which likely works different than Vscript VSH

 

[Shmooply]

i literally posted a scan of it what

 

[CBslayeR]

i literally posted a scan of it what

im a lil stupid teehee

 

[CBslayeR]

Okay fully agree with OP

 

[Shmooply]

bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The ability additions in the OP look good.

 

[CBslayeR]

Saxton Punch shouldn't be shockwave manipulation actually (the ground slam is fine for it)

Saxton Punch is more of an explosion (it even gibs them like TF2 explosions do), should fall under explosion manipulation.


Also the Mercenaries might need a new key for VSH, there's a whole lot of contradictions with canon. (The Mercs never worked for Gray Mann at any point in canon, and there's no time frame for them to even have worked for him since the events of the Mann Co takeover from Gray directly leads into the rest of the comic series)

There's also more solid AP arguments for 8-C for every mercenary due to this mode, since Saxton can tank the space weapons. Even when he dies from it he doesn't get vaporized. Mercs can also take hits from Saxton fairly well, they tank more hits than they are getting oneshot.

Mercs also need an ability for the passive melee crits the gamemode gives.

Saxton also needs his ability to break out of stuns by blowing up listed. Seen here.

 

[DaReaperMan]

We accepting this as canon despite the mercs never fighting for Gray Mann? And there being an entire comic series about the prep to fight him(basically), then actually doing it? Okey dookey!

Well Spy has a big, BIG issue then, because he can't disguise as Saxton, which puts his disguise kit as disguising as anyone at jeopardy

Jumping high also is not Acrobatics, if Doomfist slapping the ceiling of a big ass airport isn't Acrobatics, that sure as hell isn't either... but what IS Acrobatics is jumping into Sweeping charge, as that can be a complete 180 in momentum

 

[ShionAH]

Well Spy has a big, BIG issue then, because he can't disguise as Saxton, which puts his disguise kit as disguising as anyone at jeopardy

I feel like that might just be game mechanics since the devs (who barely care about the game) probably didnt care enough to give that option to Spy since it will be completely useless anyway

 

[DaReaperMan]

I feel like that might just be game mechanics since the devs (who barely care about the game) probably didnt care enough to give that option to Spy since it will be completely useless anyway

Spy literally states he can't in like 3 iterations of the same line lmfao

 

[ShionAH]

Spy literally states he can't in like 3 iterations of the same line lmfao

Okay thats funny, I feel like the way Spy words it maybe its more of a Resistance on Saxtons side?