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"my attacks aren't working on him" is not a stamina issue. Zoro made Kaido bleed, doesn't mean he is in the same ballpark.
DJ Sanji made Queen cough up blood and Queen said "we didn't even feel that".

"My attacks aren't working on him" ≠ "the damage isn't there"
 
Pretty sure Queen's statement and Chopper's are more leaning towards the fact that Chopper couldn't do LASTING damage, same as DJ Sanji pre-awakening. You can draw blood and harm them, but by the time you stack it up or try and get a chance for a KO they'd already have recovered from it and take the fight back to square one.
 
Yall look at every statement and just flop

He drew blood. He just couldn't put him down cause of stamina. Damn. Look at the manga
Wow look! Denjiro drew blood from Kaido! He should scale fully to Kaido despite obvious statements and showings in the manga!


Screen_Shot_2022-04-03_at_10.17.26_PM.png
 
Pretty sure Queen's statement and Chopper's are more leaning towards the fact that Chopper couldn't do LASTING damage, same as DJ Sanji pre-awakening. You can draw blood and harm them, but by the time you stack it up or try and get a chance for a KO they'd already have recovered from it and take the fight back to square one.
Well I think the difference between Sanji and Chopper's situation is that Queen wasn't actually trying against Chopper and was playing along. In no way does Chopper actually scale to Queen imo.
 
Wow look! Denjiro drew blood from Kaido! He should scale fully to Kaido despite obvious statements and showings in the manga!


Screen_Shot_2022-04-03_at_10.17.26_PM.png
who tf said he should scale fully

there's a difference between stabbing somebody (which is already grounds for inferior AP since you can cut and stab people with weaker AP) and smacking somebody so hard they scream in pain and have blood flying off their face.

Dogshit examples
 
Well I think the difference between Sanji and Chopper's situation is that Queen wasn't actually trying against Chopper and was playing along. In no way does Chopper actually scale to Queen imo.
Playing along by letting Chopper draw blood, though? Queen had no way of knowing that with the first slap regardless, so there's no reason he'd be already lowering himself to Chopper's level just to get damaged
And his statement seems less about him lowering himself to Chopper's level and "You were fired up so I started fighting back"
He even says it was "disappointing" which seems more like he was actually retaliating and Chopper didn't live up to his expectations. Again- Denjiro drew blood via Ryuou, Chopper did so to queen via full on regular AP. Comparaison itself is a little odd.
 
Queen wanted to shoot Chopper, but the Pleasurers got in the way, which completely shocked Queen. Then right after, Marco catches Queen from behind and holds him which also caught Queen off guard and right after Chopper slaps the shit out of him. If that doesn't spell "off guard" to you idk what will.

Even after Chopper then proceeds to grab Queen by the neck and try to slam him down, which fails, Queen literally laughs at him and even Chopper then says that nothing is hurting him. That alone proves to me that, Chopper recognizes that he was able to hurt him because he was caught off guard + grabbed from behind by Marco, but when "on guard" his attacks are useless. I put it in quotations because even then, Queen just laughs at him because of his failed attack and failing stamina. So clearly, he didn't take him seriously.
 
Marco held on to him and said POP HIM, then Chopper had time to eat a rumble ball and transform before he hit him.

Yall would scale Zoro to King pre "retcon" off of this off-guard bs
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But not Queen who had time to brace for impact
 
That was just rude.
Wait why?


Bro... I'm talking about this thread not Kachon123, which is why I didn't reply to him but quoted the statement

Like holy **** I'm getting mad, WHY THE F WOULD I DO THAT...? MAKING SOMEONE LOOK BAD IS ONE OF THE WORSE THING YOU COULD DO, Kachon123 said to not talk about him... I WILL NEVER EVER TALK TO HIM OR ABOUT HIM.... EVEN WHEN I DID THAT YOU MADE IT SO I DID... W..T..F. But hopefully now it's more understanding
 
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I know little to nothing about Zoro and King scaling cause they have too many abilities/forms and I for the most part am confused where they even stand in scaling which is why I never once mentioned Zoro or King so I'd appreciate it if we focused on Chopper and Queen instead.
Marco held on to him and said POP HIM, then Chopper had time to eat a rumble ball and transform before he hit him.
Taking a single pill does not take long lol, and neither does his transformation? You're acting as if Chopper went and turned super saiyan 3, and Queen should've seen that coming. Chopper's transformations aren't necessarily long. In the manga it's never showcased to be a slow transformation either
 
Taking a single pill does not take long lol, and neither does his transformation?
Queen attacking -> Marco grabbing -> Queen babying -> Marco talking -> Chopper responding -> Chopper eating -> Chopper transforming -> Chopper attacks

All these events and you think that it was offguard.
 
Queen attacking -> Marco grabbing -> Queen babying -> Marco talking -> Chopper responding -> Chopper eating -> Chopper transforming -> Chopper attacks
Marco grabs Queen -> Queen Caught off guard -> Marco says "Pop Him" -> Chopper says "Thanks" and then transforms and goes straight into a punch.

Like I said, Chopper's transformation is not a slow ass transformation as you're implying for it to be. Infact wouldn't the fact that Chopper became massive, be enough to catch Queen off guard anyway?

I still think it's VERY important to take note what Chopper and Queen said after the next exchange when Chopper grabs Queen by the neck:

"What's the matter, tanuki? You're pretty out of breath for someone who's supposed to be winning!!"
"None of my attacks are working on him"

Chopper very clearly states that his attacks aren't working. What I get from this is that the only reason why his attack was "effective" in the first place was because Queen was caught off guard, cause clearly, when Chopper tries to attack him again, he's unable to hurt him, draw blood, damage him, and Queen just laughs at him and mocks him. In my eyes, they are not relative based on this.

However it doesn't seem that you'll budge so I'll just agree to disagree, since it doesn't really matter here in this thread anyway. Whenever the revisions come I'll just voice my opinion there instead.
 
Alright, after all the input (ridicule from one piece wiki) I got for my list and after hearing what everyone scales like, I have remade the list and I believe this is really what the list looks like and I'm confident in it. I can back everything up if anyone asks.
  1. Monkey D. Luffy
  2. Kaido
  3. Big Mom
  4. Yamato
  5. Oden
  6. Whitebeard
  7. Marco
  8. Mihawk
  9. Roger
  10. Shiki
  11. Garp
  12. Sengoku
  13. Shanks
  14. Teach (Revenge war)
  15. Law
  16. Kidd
  17. Zoro
  18. King
  19. Benn Beckman
  20. Sakazuki (Pre-time skip)
  21. Kuzan
  22. Borsalino
  23. Rayleigh
  24. Ace
  25. Vista
  26. Jozu
  27. Sanji
  28. Killer
  29. Queen
  30. Denjiro
  31. Ashura
  32. Kinemon
  33. Inuarashi
  34. Nekomamushi
  35. Kawamatsu
  36. Jack
Everyone in their primes. This list is ranked based on who'd win, so the ranks means you can beat the ones below you and lose to those above you.
 
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Alright, after all the input (ridicule from one piece wiki) I got for my list and after hearing what everyone scales like, I have remade the list and I believe this is really what the list looks like and I'm confident in it. I can back everything up if anyone asks.
  1. Monkey D. Luffy
  2. Kaido
  3. Big Mom
  4. Yamato
  5. Oden
  6. Marco
  7. Whitebeard
  8. Mihawk
  9. Roger
  10. Shiki
  11. Garp
  12. Sengoku
  13. Teach (Revenge war)
  14. Law
  15. Kidd
  16. Zoro
  17. Benn Beckman
  18. Sakazuki (Pre-time skip)
  19. Kuzan
  20. Borsalino
  21. Rayleigh
  22. Ace
  23. Vista
  24. Jozu
  25. Sanji
  26. Killer
  27. Queen
  28. Denjiro
  29. Ashura
  30. Kinemon
  31. Inuarashi
  32. Nekomamushi
  33. Kawamatsu
  34. Jack
Everyone in their primes. This list is ranked based on who'd win, so the ranks means you can beat the ones below you and lose to those above you.
You forgot King.
 
To put this into your perspective.
6. Gohan
7. Goku

That's basically what you said in a nutshell
That was true at one point in time so that analogy doesn't even work. This is post time skip marco. he has feats such as matching big mom with promethius and stopping an attack from dragon kaido, this is their scaling. Whitebeard << conquerors whitebeard < CoC + gura Whitebeard < Prime Conqueror Oden. This means Whitebeard < Whitebeard + Gura < Oden = Kaido < Dragon Kaido < Prime conqueror oden. Current dragon kaido > Dragon kaido that fought oden and Big mom with homies should be ~ dragon kaido. This means marco should be around the same level as conqueror oden who is above whitebeard at his best. Marco also has regeneration but I could honestly see a fight go either way, but as I am writing this, whitebeard likely has the stronger armament which negates marco's regen so if that is true then marco should be lower.
 
  1. Monkey D. Luffy
  2. Kaido
  3. Big Mom
  4. Yamato
  5. Oden
  6. Marco
  7. Whitebeard
  8. Mihawk
  9. Roger
  10. Shiki
  11. Garp
  12. Sengoku
  13. Shanks
  14. Teach (Revenge war)
  15. Law
  16. Kidd
  17. Zoro
  18. King
  19. Benn Beckman
  20. Sakazuki (Pre-time skip)
  21. Kuzan
  22. Borsalino
  23. Rayleigh
  24. Ace
  25. Vista
  26. Jozu
  27. Sanji
  28. Killer
  29. Queen
  30. Denjiro
  31. Ashura
  32. Kinemon
  33. Inuarashi
  34. Nekomamushi
  35. Kawamatsu
  36. Jack
This list is very bad.

King is waaay too high.
Sanji is way too low
Jozu, Vista are toohigh
Ace above Sanji and Queen??? Why??
What makes Benn above any of the pre-timeskip admirals?
 
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That was true at one point in time so that analogy doesn't even work.
The analogy only acknowledges prime, Fluffy.
Whitebeard << conquerors whitebeard < CoC + gura Whitebeard < Prime Conqueror Oden. This means Whitebeard < Whitebeard + Gura < Oden = Kaido < Dragon Kaido < Prime conqueror oden.
FLUFFY, YOU ARE UNINTELLIGENT, AND IGNORANT WHEN IT COMES TO ONE PIECE POWERSCALING.
Sorry, someone had to say that.

Asking a bunch of randoms on a Fan Wiki who has ZERO in-depth knowledge on OP scaling isn't going to change that.


FIRST.
Sick Roger is leagues above Prime Oden.

Why? Because Sick Roger no-sold near-prime oden, one year before he returned to wano, 4 years already adventuring from his 5 years total.

Prime Roger EATS HIS ASS. Plain and simple.
Primebeard is comparable, if not stronger than that.
We discussed this already.




SECOND.

"They clashed once, and he blocked one attack, this must mean he is comparable"
No, dingus.

Luffy G4 from Whole Cake Island clashed with Haki Big Mom before. Immediately got one shot by Base Kaido afterwards

BoRaid Luffy G4 tanked a Boro Breath from Dragon Kaido.
Immediately gets bodied not two panels afterwards

Those feats do not warrant complete scaling. This isn't Mid Ball Super, get out of here, PlEaSe (jk)
 
This list is very bad.

King is waaay too high.
Sanji is way too low
Jozu, Vista are toohigh
Ace above Sanji and Queen??? Why??
What makes Benn above any of the pre-timeskip admirals?
It is not and I will defend it right here right now.
King is nigh equal with regular zoro unless you think the roof piece are lower, this is not true.
I know you like to wank sanji, I just wanna tell you that he is far above all those below him who all downscales 4x from the yonko. But he has no scaling to any of the roof piece or the yonko, his scaling is ******** on queen. And no, queen has no scaling to hawkins who is not of the tobi roppo (and I don't even think he scales to killer since the moment killer actually fought back, he blitz stomped hawkins.
No they actually scale to the admirals who scale to the yonko.
Ace scales to the admirals and teach who scale to yonko, sanji and queen scale above those who downscale 4x.
He's apparently stated equal to shanks, and there's no way he's equal to CoC shanks, so scaling him to base shanks puts him on the same level as whitebeard who while almost dead and only with the gura turned akainu's organs into soup.
Maybe they thought that because Kizaru didn't wanna deal with Benn idk
This is also another valid reason.
So... What show did you read or watch? Ain't no way it was one piece
0511-017.png
0512-006.png
0512-007.png
0513-003.png
0513-011.png

Don't even try debating this... Also when you even said..
What is that supposed to prove? He matched borsalino but was getting tired while in his prime he wouldn't get tired. I just see no reason to put him above borsalino when all he has in his prime is more stamina, but borsalino has better hax.
The analogy only acknowledges prime, Fluffy.

FLUFFY, YOU ARE UNINTELLIGENT, AND IGNORANT WHEN IT COMES TO ONE PIECE POWERSCALING.
Sorry, someone had to say that.

Asking a bunch of randoms on a Fan Wiki who has ZERO in-depth knowledge on OP scaling isn't going to change that.


FIRST.
Sick Roger is leagues above Prime Oden.

Why? Because Sick Roger no-sold near-prime oden, one year before he returned to wano, 4 years already adventuring from his 5 years total.

Prime Roger EATS HIS ASS. Plain and simple.
Primebeard is comparable, if not stronger than that.
We discussed this already.




SECOND.

"They clashed once, and he blocked one attack, this must mean he is comparable"
No, dingus.

Luffy G4 from Whole Cake Island clashed with Haki Big Mom before. Immediately got one shot by Base Kaido afterwards

BoRaid Luffy G4 tanked a Boro Breath from Dragon Kaido.
Immediately gets bodied not two panels afterwards

Those feats do not warrant complete scaling. This isn't Mid Ball Super, get out of here, PlEaSe (jk)
I will ignore the first paragraph because I acknowledge us as friends.
I did not actually ask any of the one piece wiki dudes for any scaling, I think all their scaling is shit, I just took what you and others here said.
Rogers sickness does not affect his strength, he literally matches prime whitebeard moments after that fight, and no one in his crew realized he got weaker.
Roger did not no sell oden, he hit him with a conqueror infused named attack, now let me remind you how big of an amp conqueror is and how oden literally bled a little then proceeded to immediately get up and continue fighting for 3 days like nothing happened.
I did not even argue that, I scaled prime oden at max power above prime whitebeard at max power due to oden's statement that only he can beat kaido. And yes that statement is viable there's no contradiction and the translation you gave does not change the meaning.
 
I will ignore the first paragraph because I acknowledge us as friends.
Yes, it's because we're friends that I know you're duuuubm af 🙏😔
I did not actually ask any of the one piece wiki dudes for any scaling, I think all their scaling is shit, I just took what you and others here said.
Rogers sickness does not affect his strength, he literally matches prime whitebeard moments after that fight, and no one in his crew realized he got weaker.
In any significant way, sure. But it does affect one's overall abilities, as shown with Marineford WB.
Roger did not no sell oden, he hit him with a conqueror infused
Armament Infused.
how oden literally bled a little then proceeded to immediately get up and continue fighting for 3 days like nothing happened.
2, the third was a party.

Roger still no sold Oden casually, then proceeded to actually try against Whitebeard. Which made Oden, again, wet his pants.

Roger ~ Whitebeard > Casual Roger => Near-Prime Oden.
I did not even argue that, I scaled prime oden at max power above prime whitebeard at max power due to oden's statement that only he can beat kaido. And yes that statement is viable there's no contradiction and the translation you gave does not change the meaning.
The Oden that cut Kaido wasn't at his prime, he has spent 5 years dancing, and doing nothing.

The context of the statement didn't include Roger and WB at all, it was about the Wano Samurai
 
Btw, my point is.

Oden has potential to beat Kaido, and scar him.

Marco doesn't get that same level by tanking a singular attack. That's ridiculous.
 
Yes, it's because we're friends that I know you're duuuubm af 🙏😔

In any significant way, sure. But it does affect one's overall abilities, as shown with Marineford WB.

Armament Infused.

2, the third was a party.

Roger still no sold Oden casually, then proceeded to actually try against Whitebeard. Which made Oden, again, wet his pants.

Roger ~ Whitebeard > Casual Roger => Near-Prime Oden.

The Oden that cut Kaido wasn't at his prime, he has spent 5 years dancing, and doing nothing.

The context of the statement didn't include Roger and WB at all, it was about the Wano Samurai
I may be unable to read, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong pokemon man.
No. Roger literally never showed any signs of weakness due to illness, that's headcanon. And what's to say roger and whitebeards illness is the same?
Shit you're actually right. But I'm not denying that Oden is weaker than them, and near prime is not prime.
That's wrong. It was 3 days and 3 nights, the fourth was the party.
Not casually as in he held back, but casaully as in he didn't use his full power which is include conquerors, if that were true then he'd have no reason to coat armament. It would be Roger ~ whitebeard > Oden
He didn't get weaker, that was his prime.
False, he mentions that no one can beat kaido except him, that statement would be pointless if he was referring to wano because... no shit? The "for the time being" is referring to the pirates 20 years in the future who will beat kaido. This is why the translation "no one in out era will beat kaido" is better.
No wholesomeness, Fluffy Person is my greatest enemy.
If Fluffy call me "Pokemon Man" one more time, I'll use them as a paper weight
What's a paper weight?
Btw, my point is.

Oden has potential to beat Kaido, and scar him.

Marco doesn't get that same level by tanking a singular attack. That's ridiculous.
He matched big mom with her promethius and completely stopped a bro breath that hurts gear 4 luffy, e even no sold king and queen. this is not an outlier for him.
 
What is that supposed to prove? He matched borsalino but was getting tired while in his prime he wouldn't get tired. I just see no reason to put him above borsalino when all he has in his prime is more stamina, but borsalino has better hax.
👁️👁️.... Ok nah, actually trolling
 
Is that what a paper weight is- okay I'm sorry.










I gave you a reason why I think so, he didn't use conquerors but he did use armament in which case he wouldn't need to use it if he couldn't sufficiently harm him physically. It's actually you who gotta prove tbat he was holding back.

It's not head canon, who do you think he would possibly be referring to otherwise? He literally says himself that he is talking about them in the panel right at the start of roof piece. There's also nothing to sugvest that he was only specifying wano, especially when he had no idea whitebeard would opt not to go after kaido.

Bro he is consistently that strong.
👁️👁️.... Ok nah, actually trolling
Very convincing counter argument. I thought you were better than this.
 
Very convincing counter argument. I thought you were better than this.
You want me to describe what happened when it's right in front of you, read and look at the scans. Old rayleigh is shown much more to be able to beat kizaru

I thought you were better than this... You clearly know you are wrong and just want to create arguments and drama... Hell nah will I waste time with that 🤷‍♂️🐵
 
You want me to describe what happened when it's right in front of you, read and look at the scans. Old rayleigh is shown much more to be able to beat kizaru

I thought you were better than this... You clearly know you are wrong and just want to create arguments and drama... Hell nah will I waste time with that 🤷‍♂️🐵
He was matching him but was getting tired while borsalino was fine. Are you trying to say old rayleigh is above kizaru?
 
Yes.

That's the only thing you were paying attention to? Pay attention to everything but that
There's nothing that indicates that man, they were matching each other and no one had an advantage over the other. Only rayleigh was getting tired because of old age.
 
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