Spaces in Times Dragon Ball revision

[Chariot190]

Goku is saying he can’t sense ki anymore and Elder Kai tells him that he went into a world with a different dimension of time. The 2 together made Goku realize that it was the RoSaT, since you can’t sense ki in the world. That’s not the same thing either way, but in context can be similar. I literally put the original reason why Goku states that Gohan can’t sense ki in the RoSaT in the Cell Games.

Huh? Bro saying it has a different dimension of time, is him mentioning it's a diff dimension, it's mutual

And
"Once the door of the room is closed, we’re completely shut out of the outside world. See? You don’t feel Cell’s Ki or Vegeta's Ki anymore."
Doesn't help, why do you think they're shut out in the first place?

They’re from the guidebooks.

Yuh huh, which ones, where, etc? ALL this has to be cited my dude, especially if they affect the profiles.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Huh? Bro saying it has a different dimension of time, is him mentioning it's a diff dimension, it's mutual

And
"Once the door of the room is closed, we’re completely shut out of the outside world. See? You don’t feel Cell’s Ki or Vegeta's Ki anymore."
Doesn't help, why do you think they're shut out in the first place?

Yuh huh, which ones, where, etc? ALL this has to be cited my dude, especially if they affect the profiles.

No, there’s a difference he calls it a world with a different time dimension. He’s saying that the time dimension in that world is different from the one they’re currently in. That is way different from calling it a different dimension, although it is indeed a different dimension, but that is not what the statement says. There are statements that do call the RoSaT an alternate dimension, but that scan isn’t one that does.

It’s telling us because of how it’s closed out, Gohan can’t sense the energy. They don’t necessarily tell us why beyond this. Though it isn’t because it’s an alternate dimension because other worlds are alternate dimensions too, as I shown.

Ah okay then I’ll do that.

 

[Chariot190]

No, because "different dimension" has the direct implication of a different world or realm, "however, "different dimension of time" is already something else,

Bro, EVERY dimension, is a different dimension of time? That's half of what makes a dimension

because that alludes to another time axis that serves ROSAT, apart from the time axis that serves the realms of the macrocosm, that is why it’s a “different dimension of time”.

Bro, you realize if they share a time axis, they arent diff dimensions in a true sense yes?
Actively shooting yourself in the foot here.

No, there’s a difference he calls it a world with a different time dimension. He’s saying that the time dimension in that world is different from the one they’re currently in. That is way different from calling it a different dimension, although it is indeed a different dimension, but that is not what the statement says. There are statements that do call the RoSaT an alternate dimension, but that scan isn’t one that does.

Youre joking right?
It being a place with a different time dimension is calling it a different dimension. It means the same shit, why are you being semantic?

And btw, the fact he specifies it's a different time dimension, has some implications for everywhere else.

It’s telling us because of how it’s closed out, Gohan can’t sense the energy. They don’t necessarily tell us why beyond this.

They don't really need to? It's self evident.
It's an enclosed dimension, why WOULD it be anything else? The ROSAT doesnt exactly have weird power null stuff or whatever after all.

Though it isn’t because it’s an alternate dimension because other worlds are alternate dimensions too, as I shown.

We'll see after you actually source, for all I know half that shit could be anime or Toei.

Though, mind, guides come second, if the source contradicts it, it isnt used, remember that
feel like you dbz goons should be well aware given how much stupid shit the guides say that'd downgrade like all of Z

Ah okay then I’ll do that.

Thank you.

 

[omegabronic]

Instead of responding to each individual point. I’m gonna try and merge these categorically, so we don’t keep this long back and forth on random points.

Good idea

1.

It looks like you’re arguing that since the term engrave is used it has to be a a physical 3D material. Sure, it tells us that it’s engraved with special marks, but this doesn’t really tell us much about its nature. Trying to semantically define the word engrave as a 3D material that’s being marked doesn’t really help prove it’s 3D. It’s like limiting the term cut to 3 dimensions too, when there’s plenty of verses where characters cut space-time even in the Goku Black arc. So this argument really has no basis.

well, using the Goku Black arc kind of shoots yourself in the foot, as the way black cut space time there, which is only an speculation on his part and not confirmed that it was what happened, visually shows that it can't make anything have any markings due to the cut, as it shows that space-time isn't a surface, it isn't engraving on anything more than it is opening holes that lead somewhere, by using this you are saying that one easily go from the Afterlife to the Living World via going through said cuts, but Black's case was clearly an outlier since it also allowed him to endlessly create gas clones of himself

we see in the likes of DBS:Broly and Super Buu & Gotenks that when damaging a dimensional wall it heals itself back together after a short while, thus it is impossible to actually "engrave" anything in it as it would simply heal itself back to normal, making the engraved part cease, this combined with the different word used to describe diensional walls and the barrier separating the afterlife from the living world make a solid case at both barriers not being the same type

Especially when you couple in the fact that we get a direct statement of the nature of these dimensional barriers, and we see how they’re demonstrated. You’re asserting that it’s different from the one we see in the Z manga, but it’s called the same thing and is described similarly to it. Your reasoning for doing this is because you think the engrave portion proves it’s 3D, but it doesn’t explain the nature of its dimensionality. Things like this would explain its dimensionality status. As the dimensional barrier breaking down distorted space-time. Your argument that engrave means that it has to be referring to 3D material, so it contradicts it being the same dimensional barrier as the one that happens during the RoSaT with Gotenks is flawed for that reason.

not really as you didn't really provided anything to suggest that the Barriers broken in DBS Broly nor the ROSAT are the same barriers, you are just affirming that they are as if it was obvious, which i say that it isn't, so if you are going to answer this, please keep in mind that proving that both barriers are the same is essential for your point to work, so not doing so greatly weakens it

Because there’s simply no contradiction. Also, you’re attempting to use the point that it wouldn’t take them that long to reach the earth from King Kai’s planet, when you’ve acknowledged that Whis can travel to other dimensions and space-times. So, that point doesn’t prove it’s a 3D barrier either.

the point is not much the time alone, more so the implication and direct statement of the Afterlife being much closer to Earth than another point in the Living Universe

Also, the living world actually has dimensions of its own. The whole argument of it not being a dimensional barrier that we see in Z and Broly falls apart with this.

i never argued that the one in Z and Broly aren't dimensional barriers at all.......i argued that they are, no idea where you are getting that i said they aren't, i am simply saying that they don't prove that the living world is a separate dimension from the likes of Afterlife and Kaioshin realm, as both of those instances are of separating stuff outside the Universe from said Universe, so it doesn't serve to prove that the other realms are equally separated as stuff from outside the Universe, even if you proved with 100% that the other realms are other dimensions, the actual problem i described here wouldn't really change

Your argument is based off the presupposition that what the guide and the manga say about its nature contradict each other. Either way, I can prove they separate dimensions with scans anyway. The Living World consists of 2 dimensions. It consists of the Demon Realm and “The Universe” in this scan it’s stated that the Demon Realm is another dimension. That means the Living World are dimensions that are separate from the Afterlife and Kaioshin Realm. Which shows that your presupposition of them being one connected alternate dimension is false. So there is no contradiction and it’s stated to be dimensions. Raw

no, this proves that the Demon realm is another dimension, sure, it proves that it isn't in the spatial area of the normal universe, yet it doesn't stop the likes of Kaioshin realm and Afterlife from being in the same spatial area as the

Regarding the Subspace, it talks about how the subspace does not belong to any of the world. Then, it explains to us that it is detached from every area. This is reference to figure [1], then it tells us that it’s between dimensions in that same context. It’s adding onto what’s already given to us. I mentioned a Japanese speaker who gave us context on this scan, but you said it’s merely an opinion. Since you must know how interpret Japanese better.Scan AE Either way, the context is quite clear even in the English it’s telling us the subspace’s relation to [figure 1] and finishes it off by telling us it’s between dimensions. If it existed in the world, then it would it be in one of those worlds depicted in [figure 1], but it’s telling us that it doesn’t belong to any of the world and that it’s detached from the area, and exists between dimensions.

well first of all, the other scan i am using doesn't cite Figure 1 anywhere in its text, so for you to refer only to the one that specifically does already doesn't cover the point completely

secondly, i am not in need of interpreting Japanese as Ex already put the phrases in English, at this point i just to interpret what the text itself is saying, which is the same kind of way anyone would do to any other language, his knowing japanese only helps in the way of translating the text to english so others can understand, after that however, everyone can interpret it equally as everyone knows what it is saying already

One of your arguments against this was that there was no dimensions in the macrocosm to begin with, but I’ve already addressed that unsubstantiated claim above.

don't remember affirming that as an counter point, wouldn't really make sense to say "there is no dimensions" to prove that they aren't, either way, what i said is that there is no evidence or statement of the other realms being other dimensions

I’ve also seen the Elder Kai point being used, but the context is Goku tells Elder Kai that he can no longer sense Buu anymore. Elder Kai tells him he entered a world with a different dimension of time. He never explicitly says the reason you can’t sense him because he’s entered a different dimension. He mentions what it was and asks Goku if that sounds familiar and he mentions the RoSaT. Elder Kai never even mentions that the RoSaT was an alternate dimension, just that it had a different time dimension. Scan Although, I’m not denying it is I’m just mentioning that it’s never said he can’t sense for that reason. In the Cell Saga we get an explanation that the way the door seals off the rest of the world it makes ki sensing unavailable, so Goku pieced this out from the fact that he couldn’t sense ki and what Elder Kai said about it.

Cell saga:
部屋の扉を閉めてしまえば完全に外界の情報はシャットアウトされてしまうんだ

ほら　もうセルの気もベジータの気も感じねえだろ =
Once the door of the room is closed, we’re completely shut out of the outside world.

See? You don’t feel Cell’s Ki or Vegeta's Ki anymore.

So there’s nothing to do with it being an alternate dimension, considering the Living World itself is made up of dimensions as shown above.

Chariot is already debating this, so i won't add anything for now

Realm of the Kais:


Beyond Super Saiyan!
Super Saiyan 3's super power!

Goku transformed into Super Saiyan 3 through rigorous training in the Heavenly Realm. His incredible power, which shook the entire earth, even reached the next dimension, the Realm of the King of the World, surprising his friends! Although it took him a while to transform because he was still getting used to it, he showed that he was strong enough to fight Buu on an equal footing!

where's this from? which guide? depending on the answer i may add it to the OP as a point against the Kaioshin realm specifically, altho i find it interesting that the next dimension statement would be refereing to the Kaioshin realm and not the Afterlife, since one would be "closer" to the living world, saying that the next dimension is the Kaioshin realm would validate the arguments against the Afterlife and Demon Realm being other dimensions

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Once the door of the room is closed, we’re completely shut out of the outside world.

Why is that, though?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I genuinely do not know where that Imgur link came from.

 

[Qawsedf234]

@Qawsedf234

You have a summary ready? For a response I can get around to it late Monday or Tuesday.

 

[omegabronic]

Added a note on the OP a couple of them actually so if anyone wants to read it again to see if their vote changes, feel free

 

[Golden_Void]

neutral