"Smurfing through time" A Dragon Ball Super upgrade

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Hit ability was able to affect the hypertimeline? i thought he only store time n created the pocket dimension but he didnt affect the timelines.

The argument is that he's accessing the higher time dimension, since normally there isn't time in the world of void, giving a 5-D origin to his ability.

If not, then the world of void has its own time axis separate from the rest of the universes.

Me personally? I think they are trying to get away with an already nonsensical ability that it's Hits time skip, that pretty much goes against multiple of the conventional applications of how time manipulation works because the writers couldn't decide if it's "just a skip", a time stop and a skip (two separate abilities) or a skip that also happens to stop time (one ability that applies two different things at once) combined with his time storage. Because of this, any feat or showing involving this ability is already suspect.

My thoughts is simply: Hit can use his abilities out of convenience, in a form of PIS, otherwise he couldn't basically do anything special during the fighting. If we have to index this somehow, and look for a logical explanation, I'd say Hit can keep time stored already, before having to do it in the moment and just bring that onto his fights to do his techniques. But this is my own speculation, reason which I don't propose it as an option.

TL;DR, Hit's abilities are nonsense and we don't need to try and make em fit our standards, specially not to force upgrades.

 

[Killerdrone123]

The argument is that he's accessing the higher time dimension, since normally there isn't time in the world of void, giving a 5-D origin to his ability.

If not, then the world of void has its own time axis separate from the rest of the universes.

Me personally? I think they are trying to get away with an already nonsensical ability that it's Hits time skip, that pretty much goes against multiple of the conventional applications of how time manipulation works because the writers couldn't decide if it's "just a skip", a time stop and a skip (two separate abilities) or a skip that also happens to stop time (one ability that applies two different things at once) combined with his time storage. Because of this, any feat or showing involving this ability is already suspect.

My thoughts is simply: Hit can use his abilities out of convenience, in a form of PIS, otherwise he couldn't basically do anything special during the fighting. If we have to index this somehow, and look for a logical explanation, I'd say Hit can keep time stored already, before having to do it in the moment and just bring that onto his fights to do his techniques. But this is my own speculation, reason which I don't propose it as an option.

TL;DR, Hit's abilities are nonsense and we don't need to try and make em fit our standards, specially not to force upgrades.

I think you are misinterpreting something I am not using wov this is neutral space we are talking about.The space that holds all the macrocosms the direct temporal dimension of neutral space would be the hypertimeline itself

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I think you are misinterpreting something I am not using wov this is neutral space we are talking about

Ah, you are right. I had read the OP wrong.

Then this entire thread is completely pointless. We had already concluded the neutral space has some form of time*. It's just not significant enough to be 5-D.

*I will try to find the thread where this was concluded

 

[Killerdrone123]

Ah, you are right. I had read the OP wrong.

Then this entire thread is completely pointless. We had already concluded the neutral space has some form of time*. It's just not significant enough to be 5-D.

*I will try to find the thread where this was concluded

No not time but space since neutral space is space that holds parallel 4d macrocosms so it is an insignificant 5d space I am arguing that hit is affecting the temporal dimension not the spatial one

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Ah, you are right. I had read the OP wrong.

Then this entire thread is completely pointless. We had already concluded the neutral space has some form of time*. It's just not significant enough to be 5-D.

*I will try to find the thread where this was concluded

It was considered insignificant 5D, since it is a neutral dimension that separates the other Universes.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

No not time but space since neutral space is space that holds parallel 4d macrocosms so it is an insignificant 5d space I am arguing that hit is affecting the temporal dimension not the spatial one

Yeah, this temporal dimension doesn't need to be 5-D in the manner which we apply. That's the point. There's nothing to upgrade here.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Yeah, this temporal dimension doesn't need to be 5-D in the manner which we apply. That's the point. There's nothing to upgrade here.

No since the temporal dimension for the neutral space would be timeline itself also if neutral space had temporal dimension then it would be higher temporal dimension for containing the lower temporal dimension of macrocosms and would be low 1c there is no such thing as insignificant temporal dimension which is what option 2 is I think titled reply explained it pretty well why option 1 is best choice and why the timeline is the temporal dimension for the neutral space

 

[Killerdrone123]

Gonna have to disagree with option 2 and just go for option 1. Reason being is that there is no reason that the neutral zone can't just share the time axis of the all encompassing hypertimeline instead. We would need further proof of the neutral zone actually having its own distinct time axis, unlike the macrocosms which have separate origins of times, and spaces that lack the concept of space and time separating them so that they must be encompassed by separate, distinct time axes. I feel it would be much safer to just say hit is just manipulating the hypertimeline instead. Because as we already know, just as how multiple spacetimes can share 1 time axis, there is no exception for the neutral zone, unless again, we have further proof which I personally feel that we lack.

No I've had this discussion before on multiple threads. The neutral zone being a separate dimension and having a separate time axis are two totally different concepts. It can still actually share the time axis of the overarching hypertimeline without anything limiting it. Separate dimension=/=separate time axis. Ill try to give an example: A timeline of two universes would be modeled as, Rx{1, 2} x RxRxR or A multiverse from 2 timelines would be, {1,2)x(RxRxR)xR. They would both be the same thing, now apply that to the neutral zone, and maybe zeno's palace to simulate the two universes/timelines, and they would still share the greater timelines time axis. We need more proof of a distinct time axis for the neutral zone.

Here

 

[TiltedFN]

Yeah, this temporal dimension doesn't need to be 5-D in the manner which we apply. That's the point. There's nothing to upgrade here.

The argument that HIT is actually affecting the hypertimeline itself when he uses his time hax outside of the macrocosms. Which is what is being proposed here, since the neutral space uses the timeline as its axis, thats what hit is influencing, so his time hax would be 5D.

 

[denisnic55]

Let's say option 1 goes, will this buff Jiren and MUI Goku since Jiren > Time Pison and MUI Goku > Jiren? Or am I totally wrong.

 

[CurrySenpai]

I think it’s just Smurf Hax if option 1 goes.
Smurf Hax and a Zeno upgrade?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I think it’s just Smurf Hax if option 1 goes.
Smurf Hax and a Zeno upgrade?

The second option would make the neutral dimension 5D and timeline 6D if I'm not mistaken.

 

[DivineAura44]

bump

 

[Demon_Lord18]

The second option sounds good

 

[RigelBR7]

I agree. 6D looks good.

 

[speedster352]

I agree with the second option

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Bump

 

[CelestialVortex01]

pmuB

 

[TiltedFN]

Option 2 makes more sense to me.

do you still agree with option 2?

 

[Nierre]

what's the vote count? we should wrap this up soon.

 

[Killerdrone123]

what's the vote count? we should wrap this up soon.

2 agrees with option 1

1 agrees with option 2

1 disagrees with both

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Option 1:Hit is manipulating the hypertimeline making his time skip 5d and he would be a smurf

I can already foresee future CRTs wanting to upgrade the characters to 5D with this.

Jiren vs Hit gave us good results

 

[Killerdrone123]

Bump

 

[RigelBR7]

Bunp

 

[CelestialVortex01]

It has been almost 2 months

 

[denisnic55]

It has been almost 2 months

Opps scared to reply

 

[AwkguyDB]

bumporoooo

 

[Ryzen7900X]

Opps scared to reply

can't blame 'em. Its a really spicy thread with some pretty spicy consequences low 1-C Goku depending on what gets accepted

 

[denisnic55]

can't blame 'em. Its a really spicy thread with some pretty spicy consequences low 1-C Goku depending on what gets accepted

even if it goes, someone(you know who) comes and downgrades the verse even tho it literally contradicts the wiki's standards but no one cares..

 

[DivineAura44]

Stop derailing. This only makes it more complicated for a staff member who might want to evaluate this.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody properly explain the arguments for and against this revision please?

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody properly explain the arguments for and against this revision please?

@LephyrTheRevanchist @ProfectusInfinity

 

[Killerdrone123]

Gonna have to disagree with option 2 and just go for option 1. Reason being is that there is no reason that the neutral zone can't just share the time axis of the all encompassing hypertimeline instead. We would need further proof of the neutral zone actually having its own distinct time axis, unlike the macrocosms which have separate origins of times, and spaces that lack the concept of space and time separating them so that they must be encompassed by separate, distinct time axes. I feel it would be much safer to just say hit is just manipulating the hypertimeline instead. Because as we already know, just as how multiple spacetimes can share 1 time axis, there is no exception for the neutral zone, unless again, we have further proof which I personally feel that we lack.

No I've had this discussion before on multiple threads. The neutral zone being a separate dimension and having a separate time axis are two totally different concepts. It can still actually share the time axis of the overarching hypertimeline without anything limiting it. Separate dimension=/=separate time axis. Ill try to give an example: A timeline of two universes would be modeled as, Rx{1, 2} x RxRxR or A multiverse from 2 timelines would be, {1,2)x(RxRxR)xR. They would both be the same thing, now apply that to the neutral zone, and maybe zeno's palace to simulate the two universes/timelines, and they would still share the greater timelines time axis. We need more proof of a distinct time axis for the neutral zone.

Here tiltled explained the arguments for option 1

 

[Killerdrone123]

Can somebody properly explain the arguments for and against this revision please?

There are currently no arguments against the thread

 

[Killerdrone123]

I think Tilted is making the most sense here. Spatiotemporal separation doesn't inherently introduce new time axes, as DontTalkDT has mentioned in the past (1, 2, 3) and as the Tiering System pages explain. I proposed this exact argument months ago in the original Low 1-C Neutral Space staff thread and it was rejected already. I see no reason why the higher time of the Neutral Space must be ontologically distinct enough to the point where it services itself rather than being serviced by the greater timeline's axis.

Option 1 looks the most reliable to me.

Profectus reply

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Can somebody properly explain the arguments for and against this revision please?

Basically

Hit uses a move called time skip - which allows him skip time and which he uses as an extension to store the skipped time for other techniques


So he used it in the neutral zone the space between universes, now each universe has its own time dimension, meaning one of two things is true

1) Hit was skipping time of the greater timeline which contains the neutral zone as there is no confirmed information on the zone having its own time dimension this, is being serviced by the time axis of the timeline, meaning he has 5D time skipping, @Killerdrone123 tagged the arguments for this

2) The neutral zone has its own time dimension


There are no arguments against the thread itself

 

[Deleted member 40688]

There are currently no arguments against the thread

There is

Me personally? I think they are trying to get away with an already nonsensical ability that it's Hits time skip, that pretty much goes against multiple of the conventional applications of how time manipulation works because the writers couldn't decide if it's "just a skip", a time stop and a skip (two separate abilities) or a skip that also happens to stop time (one ability that applies two different things at once) combined with his time storage. Because of this, any feat or showing involving this ability is already suspect.

My thoughts is simply: Hit can use his abilities out of convenience, in a form of PIS, otherwise he couldn't basically do anything special during the fighting. If we have to index this somehow, and look for a logical explanation, I'd say Hit can keep time stored already, before having to do it in the moment and just bring that onto his fights to do his techniques. But this is my own speculation, reason which I don't propose it as an option.

TL;DR, Hit's abilities are nonsense and we don't need to try and make em fit our standards, specially not to force upgrades.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

There is

This was a a misunderstanding, he thought the OP was referring to the world of void, it was corrected right underneath this post

 

[Ryzen7900X]

Here tiltled explained the arguments for option 1

changing my vote back to option 1

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I think option 1 looks better now