Spaces in Times Dragon Ball revision

[Chariot190]

Goku is saying he can’t sense ki anymore and Elder Kai tells him that he went into a world with a different dimension of time. The 2 together made Goku realize that it was the RoSaT, since you can’t sense ki in the world. That’s not the same thing either way, but in context can be similar. I literally put the original reason why Goku states that Gohan can’t sense ki in the RoSaT in the Cell Games.

Huh? Bro saying it has a different dimension of time, is him mentioning it's a diff dimension, it's mutual

And
"Once the door of the room is closed, we’re completely shut out of the outside world. See? You don’t feel Cell’s Ki or Vegeta's Ki anymore."
Doesn't help, why do you think they're shut out in the first place?

They’re from the guidebooks.

Yuh huh, which ones, where, etc? ALL this has to be cited my dude, especially if they affect the profiles.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Huh? Bro saying it has a different dimension of time, is him mentioning it's a diff dimension, it's mutual

And
"Once the door of the room is closed, we’re completely shut out of the outside world. See? You don’t feel Cell’s Ki or Vegeta's Ki anymore."
Doesn't help, why do you think they're shut out in the first place?

Yuh huh, which ones, where, etc? ALL this has to be cited my dude, especially if they affect the profiles.

No, there’s a difference he calls it a world with a different time dimension. He’s saying that the time dimension in that world is different from the one they’re currently in. That is way different from calling it a different dimension, although it is indeed a different dimension, but that is not what the statement says. There are statements that do call the RoSaT an alternate dimension, but that scan isn’t one that does.

It’s telling us because of how it’s closed out, Gohan can’t sense the energy. They don’t necessarily tell us why beyond this. Though it isn’t because it’s an alternate dimension because other worlds are alternate dimensions too, as I shown.

Ah okay then I’ll do that.

 

[Chariot190]

No, because "different dimension" has the direct implication of a different world or realm, "however, "different dimension of time" is already something else,

Bro, EVERY dimension, is a different dimension of time? That's half of what makes a dimension

because that alludes to another time axis that serves ROSAT, apart from the time axis that serves the realms of the macrocosm, that is why it’s a “different dimension of time”.

Bro, you realize if they share a time axis, they arent diff dimensions in a true sense yes?
Actively shooting yourself in the foot here.

No, there’s a difference he calls it a world with a different time dimension. He’s saying that the time dimension in that world is different from the one they’re currently in. That is way different from calling it a different dimension, although it is indeed a different dimension, but that is not what the statement says. There are statements that do call the RoSaT an alternate dimension, but that scan isn’t one that does.

Youre joking right?
It being a place with a different time dimension is calling it a different dimension. It means the same shit, why are you being semantic?

And btw, the fact he specifies it's a different time dimension, has some implications for everywhere else.

It’s telling us because of how it’s closed out, Gohan can’t sense the energy. They don’t necessarily tell us why beyond this.

They don't really need to? It's self evident.
It's an enclosed dimension, why WOULD it be anything else? The ROSAT doesnt exactly have weird power null stuff or whatever after all.

Though it isn’t because it’s an alternate dimension because other worlds are alternate dimensions too, as I shown.

We'll see after you actually source, for all I know half that shit could be anime or Toei.

Though, mind, guides come second, if the source contradicts it, it isnt used, remember that
feel like you dbz goons should be well aware given how much stupid shit the guides say that'd downgrade like all of Z

Ah okay then I’ll do that.

Thank you.

 

[Omegabronic]

Instead of responding to each individual point. I’m gonna try and merge these categorically, so we don’t keep this long back and forth on random points.

Good idea

1.

It looks like you’re arguing that since the term engrave is used it has to be a a physical 3D material. Sure, it tells us that it’s engraved with special marks, but this doesn’t really tell us much about its nature. Trying to semantically define the word engrave as a 3D material that’s being marked doesn’t really help prove it’s 3D. It’s like limiting the term cut to 3 dimensions too, when there’s plenty of verses where characters cut space-time even in the Goku Black arc. So this argument really has no basis.

well, using the Goku Black arc kind of shoots yourself in the foot, as the way black cut space time there, which is only an speculation on his part and not confirmed that it was what happened, visually shows that it can't make anything have any markings due to the cut, as it shows that space-time isn't a surface, it isn't engraving on anything more than it is opening holes that lead somewhere, by using this you are saying that one easily go from the Afterlife to the Living World via going through said cuts, but Black's case was clearly an outlier since it also allowed him to endlessly create gas clones of himself

we see in the likes of DBS:Broly and Super Buu & Gotenks that when damaging a dimensional wall it heals itself back together after a short while, thus it is impossible to actually "engrave" anything in it as it would simply heal itself back to normal, making the engraved part cease, this combined with the different word used to describe diensional walls and the barrier separating the afterlife from the living world make a solid case at both barriers not being the same type

Especially when you couple in the fact that we get a direct statement of the nature of these dimensional barriers, and we see how they’re demonstrated. You’re asserting that it’s different from the one we see in the Z manga, but it’s called the same thing and is described similarly to it. Your reasoning for doing this is because you think the engrave portion proves it’s 3D, but it doesn’t explain the nature of its dimensionality. Things like this would explain its dimensionality status. As the dimensional barrier breaking down distorted space-time. Your argument that engrave means that it has to be referring to 3D material, so it contradicts it being the same dimensional barrier as the one that happens during the RoSaT with Gotenks is flawed for that reason.

not really as you didn't really provided anything to suggest that the Barriers broken in DBS Broly nor the ROSAT are the same barriers, you are just affirming that they are as if it was obvious, which i say that it isn't, so if you are going to answer this, please keep in mind that proving that both barriers are the same is essential for your point to work, so not doing so greatly weakens it

Because there’s simply no contradiction. Also, you’re attempting to use the point that it wouldn’t take them that long to reach the earth from King Kai’s planet, when you’ve acknowledged that Whis can travel to other dimensions and space-times. So, that point doesn’t prove it’s a 3D barrier either.

the point is not much the time alone, more so the implication and direct statement of the Afterlife being much closer to Earth than another point in the Living Universe

Also, the living world actually has dimensions of its own. The whole argument of it not being a dimensional barrier that we see in Z and Broly falls apart with this.

i never argued that the one in Z and Broly aren't dimensional barriers at all.......i argued that they are, no idea where you are getting that i said they aren't, i am simply saying that they don't prove that the living world is a separate dimension from the likes of Afterlife and Kaioshin realm, as both of those instances are of separating stuff outside the Universe from said Universe, so it doesn't serve to prove that the other realms are equally separated as stuff from outside the Universe, even if you proved with 100% that the other realms are other dimensions, the actual problem i described here wouldn't really change

Your argument is based off the presupposition that what the guide and the manga say about its nature contradict each other. Either way, I can prove they separate dimensions with scans anyway. The Living World consists of 2 dimensions. It consists of the Demon Realm and “The Universe” in this scan it’s stated that the Demon Realm is another dimension. That means the Living World are dimensions that are separate from the Afterlife and Kaioshin Realm. Which shows that your presupposition of them being one connected alternate dimension is false. So there is no contradiction and it’s stated to be dimensions. Raw

no, this proves that the Demon realm is another dimension, sure, it proves that it isn't in the spatial area of the normal universe, yet it doesn't stop the likes of Kaioshin realm and Afterlife from being in the same spatial area as the

Regarding the Subspace, it talks about how the subspace does not belong to any of the world. Then, it explains to us that it is detached from every area. This is reference to figure [1], then it tells us that it’s between dimensions in that same context. It’s adding onto what’s already given to us. I mentioned a Japanese speaker who gave us context on this scan, but you said it’s merely an opinion. Since you must know how interpret Japanese better.Scan AE Either way, the context is quite clear even in the English it’s telling us the subspace’s relation to [figure 1] and finishes it off by telling us it’s between dimensions. If it existed in the world, then it would it be in one of those worlds depicted in [figure 1], but it’s telling us that it doesn’t belong to any of the world and that it’s detached from the area, and exists between dimensions.

well first of all, the other scan i am using doesn't cite Figure 1 anywhere in its text, so for you to refer only to the one that specifically does already doesn't cover the point completely

secondly, i am not in need of interpreting Japanese as Ex already put the phrases in English, at this point i just to interpret what the text itself is saying, which is the same kind of way anyone would do to any other language, his knowing japanese only helps in the way of translating the text to english so others can understand, after that however, everyone can interpret it equally as everyone knows what it is saying already

One of your arguments against this was that there was no dimensions in the macrocosm to begin with, but I’ve already addressed that unsubstantiated claim above.

don't remember affirming that as an counter point, wouldn't really make sense to say "there is no dimensions" to prove that they aren't, either way, what i said is that there is no evidence or statement of the other realms being other dimensions

I’ve also seen the Elder Kai point being used, but the context is Goku tells Elder Kai that he can no longer sense Buu anymore. Elder Kai tells him he entered a world with a different dimension of time. He never explicitly says the reason you can’t sense him because he’s entered a different dimension. He mentions what it was and asks Goku if that sounds familiar and he mentions the RoSaT. Elder Kai never even mentions that the RoSaT was an alternate dimension, just that it had a different time dimension. Scan Although, I’m not denying it is I’m just mentioning that it’s never said he can’t sense for that reason. In the Cell Saga we get an explanation that the way the door seals off the rest of the world it makes ki sensing unavailable, so Goku pieced this out from the fact that he couldn’t sense ki and what Elder Kai said about it.

Cell saga:
部屋の扉を閉めてしまえば完全に外界の情報はシャットアウトされてしまうんだ

ほら　もうセルの気もベジータの気も感じねえだろ =
Once the door of the room is closed, we’re completely shut out of the outside world.

See? You don’t feel Cell’s Ki or Vegeta's Ki anymore.

So there’s nothing to do with it being an alternate dimension, considering the Living World itself is made up of dimensions as shown above.

Chariot is already debating this, so i won't add anything for now

Realm of the Kais:


Beyond Super Saiyan!
Super Saiyan 3's super power!

Goku transformed into Super Saiyan 3 through rigorous training in the Heavenly Realm. His incredible power, which shook the entire earth, even reached the next dimension, the Realm of the King of the World, surprising his friends! Although it took him a while to transform because he was still getting used to it, he showed that he was strong enough to fight Buu on an equal footing!

where's this from? which guide? depending on the answer i may add it to the OP as a point against the Kaioshin realm specifically, altho i find it interesting that the next dimension statement would be refereing to the Kaioshin realm and not the Afterlife, since one would be "closer" to the living world, saying that the next dimension is the Kaioshin realm would validate the arguments against the Afterlife and Demon Realm being other dimensions

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Once the door of the room is closed, we’re completely shut out of the outside world.

Why is that, though?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I genuinely do not know where that Imgur link came from.

 

[Qawsedf234]

@Qawsedf234

You have a summary ready? For a response I can get around to it late Monday or Tuesday.

 

[Omegabronic]

Added a note on the OP a couple of them actually so if anyone wants to read it again to see if their vote changes, feel free

 

[Golden_Void]

neutral

 

[Golden_Void]

I'm leaning agree.

Though, like OP states, if the kaioshin realm is only physically separated, then it doesn't disprove an alternate dimension afterlife. Especially given the nature of how bodies and souls work with respect to time there. Frieza was dead for nearly 15 years, which Shenron calls a long time, but revived Frieza calls a short absence. There's also Goku's perspective on time there.

A lot of things don't make sense though. DB has a map depiction and a space ball depiction of a universe, but they don't agree with each other. Goku needed Gohan to max out his power to teleport to Earth from Beerus's (same spatial plane), yet could teleport to King Kai multiple times. IT is also notoriously inconsistent outside of the reasons listed above.

As far as Whis flying, the implication seems to be Whis can only fly that fast with his staff. Beerus can also fly interplanetary distances by himself. Whis's staff has universal time manipulation, plus he can travel across universes and view other timelines/dimensions. That doesn't sound like normal regular flight.

 

[Omegabronic]

As far as Whis flying, the implication seems to be Whis can only fly that fast with his staff. Beerus can also fly interplanetary distances by himself. Whis's staff has universal time manipulation, plus he can travel across universes and view other timelines/dimensions. That doesn't sound like normal regular flight.

that point was purely to demonstrate how, in verse, the Afterlife is much closer to Earth than another planet in the same spatce(the universe)

at this point i think i should clarify that more, much confusion to the intent of the point has been made, pherhaps tommorow i will find time to do that

 

[Golden_Void]

that point was purely to demonstrate how, in verse, the Afterlife is much closer to Earth than another planet in the same spatce(the universe)

at this point i think i should clarify that more, much confusion to the intent of the point has been made, pherhaps tommorow i will find time to do that

Whis could travel to Zeno's in 2 days, and the universes sit in human-sized form on top of rocks while being outside the universes, so idk.

 

[Omegabronic]

Whis could travel to Zeno's in 2 days

yeah.............don't see how this correlates to the point tho, Zeno's place is another dimension outside the 12 Universes

and the universes sit in human-sized form on top of rocks while being outside the universes, so idk.

we actually are never told what those things are in Zeno's place.......so as far as we know they are just decoration

 

[AwkguyDB]

definitely disagree fra

 

[Golden_Void]

yeah.............don't see how this correlates to the point tho, Zeno's place is another dimension outside the 12 Universes

Your issue was the variance in arrival destinations based on the proximity of two different spacetimes. Whis takes 2 days to travel to a jellyfish that exists in another place entirely. There's also the ambiguity of Whis taking Future Trunks and Mai to a "different future" without explicit mention of a time ring, and we know Whis has universal time manipulation. Angels are the only ones shown being capable of interdimensional/universal travel outside of teleportation or time machines.

we actually are never told what those things are in Zeno's place.......so as far as we know they are just decoration

He was capable of moving actual planets and galaxies through a hologram, and the universes above those pillars are moving in the anime. It's basically all but confirmed (unless it is confirmed somewhere.)

 

[TiltedFN]

Your issue was the variance in arrival destinations based on the proximity of two different spacetimes. Whis takes 2 days to travel to a jellyfish that exists in another place entirely. There's also the ambiguity of Whis taking Future Trunks and Mai to a "different future" without explicit mention of a time ring, and we know Whis has universal time manipulation. Angels are the only ones shown being capable of interdimensional/universal travel outside of teleportation or time machines.

He was capable of moving actual planets and galaxies through a hologram, and the universes above those pillars are moving in the anime. It's basically all but confirmed (unless it is confirmed somewhere.)

Yeah the universes on zenos palace are actual universes, his finger even materialized in the lower realm from the hologram, which seems to be a subset of the lower universes materialized in zenos higher dimension. And you can only get there by teleportation and whis staff, as do the other realms like the kaioshin realm, living realm, and afterlife. Also neutral zone. Which is a BIG reason on why they are separate spacetimes.

 

[Omegabronic]

Yeah the universes on zenos palace are actual universes, his finger even materialized in the lower realm from the hologram, which seems to be a subset of the lower universes materialized in zenos higher dimension.

Unless Goku and Co grew to Universal sizes out of nowhere......yeah no, those are at best representations

And you can only get there by teleportation and whis staff, as do the other realms like the kaioshin realm, living realm, and afterlife. Also neutral zone. Which is a BIG reason on why they are separate spacetimes.

That specification for the other realms is never said tho

Even then that wouldn't prove space time separation

 

[TiltedFN]

Unless Goku and Co grew to Universal sizes out of nowhere......yeah no, those are at best representations

Yet you literally have no proof of that, the universes are literally moving, and the nature of zenos realm ALLOWS them to be larger, you know its fiction right? And this is just more proof for zenos realm being a higher dimension. Like I said, he can materialize his finger in the lower realms and it appears as big as a planet, entire galaxies are small to him. He can flick the planets also, his hologram displays a section of the universe where he can interact with it. If you can't prove they are, "just representations" then im not gonna take it seriously. But this doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

That specification for the other realms is never said tho

Even then that wouldn't prove space time separation

You're still on this? Don't you find it weird that the only way to get to the other dimensions in dragon ball is through special means? Like flight and teleportation? That specific flight being able to travel to potentially higher dimensions, capable of time travel, and went to the neutral dimension? Yet you still say, "oh but its never said". All we have to do is use our eyes to figure it out. Teleportation like kai kai and IT are also used to travel to other dimensions, like the 3 realms, the 3 realms are stated to be separate from each other. You cannot fly to them.

 

[Omegabronic]

Yet you literally have no proof of that

the fact that a normal sized human beings are bigger than them + nothing ever proving what they are at all?

, the universes are literally moving, and the nature of zenos realm ALLOWS them to be larger, you know its fiction right?

how does it being fiction fix the blatant size stuff? how does "its fiction bro" correlates to the fact that Goku is bigger than those orbs?

And this is just more proof for zenos realm being a higher dimension. Like I said, he can materialize his finger in the lower realms and it appears as big as a planet, entire galaxies are small to him.

Goku isn't a higher dimensional being tho, his going to a higher dimension really doesn't matter for the fact that he himself is far smaller than any universe, thus suddently being bigger + nothing saying that they are the universes should be enough to say the obvious.........they aren't universes

as for the Planet thing? Spatial manip, that is what the profiles treats it as, want to change it? make a thread for it, that literally doesn't matter for this thread

He can flick the planets also, his hologram displays a section of the universe where he can interact with it. If you can't prove they are, "just representations" then im not gonna take it seriously. But this doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

considering that there isn't a thing saying that they are the literal universes + their size being a clear problem to that + the fact that this doesn't really matter for this thread........yeah, i don't think i need to prove that

again, make your own thread if you really want to try to make Zeno's place a higher dimension and that those orbs are literally the universes, feel free

You're still on this? Don't you find it weird that the only way to get to the other dimensions in dragon ball is through special means?

........in dragon ball? dude, that is true for most other dimensions, fiction or otherwise, you need special means to get to them regardless since they aren't spatially connected for one to just fly to them, or whatever other physical travel, needing special travel doesn't anything other that they are alternate dimensions

besides, the entire OP is with evidence of the realms not being other dimensions to begin with......so for the purposes of this thread, the other realms aren't other dimensions to begin with

Like flight and teleportation? That specific flight being able to travel to potentially higher dimensions, capable of time travel, and went to the neutral dimension?

unless you can make this wiki accept the higher dimensional Zeno Pallace....you can't really use it as an argument, also that fly ability is also equally capable of flying spatially in a 3D manner, so that doesn't really prove much, it can do both

Yet you still say, "oh but its never said". All we have to do is use our eyes to figure it out. Teleportation like kai kai and IT are also used to travel to other dimensions,

and also used to travel bettween physical spaces like between planets.......again, it can do both, it isn't exclusive to other dimensions

like the 3 realms

again, this thread is arguing that they aren't other dimensions to begin with.......so you can't use the "fact" that they are other dimensions.......in your argument trying to prove that they are other dimensions

, the 3 realms are stated to be separate from each other. You cannot fly to them.

.........nothing you showed says this tho, you just said that a technique that can do both physical travel and interdimensional travel can be used to get to them.....which should be obvious regardless of them being other dimensions or not

 

[Golden_Void]

Unless Goku and Co grew to Universal sizes out of nowhere......yeah no, those are at best representations

They're basically like computer shortcuts. They're physical references to a different point in memory (space). The same way a planet was destroyed in real space by rolling onto Grand Priest's foot, even though he didn't touch the planet's position in real space. Just like time rings are physical temporal representations of a timeline.

I know your main point was the realms within the universe don't have different dimensions, so my opinion is the macrocosm has both time for the mortals and no time for the dead, while the entire universe orb has time.

 

[Omegabronic]

I know your main point was the realms within the universe don't have different dimensions, so my opinion is the macrocosm has both time for the mortals and no time for the dead, while the entire universe orb has time.

well.....the afterlife has to have time tho, it still flows from the perspective of those inside

 

[Greatsage13th]

well.....the afterlife has to have time tho, it still flows from the perspective of those inside

Do give an example of a space that voids any flow from the perspective of those inside.

 

[Golden_Void]

well.....the afterlife has to have time tho, it still flows from the perspective of those inside

Though, like OP states, if the kaioshin realm is only physically separated, then it doesn't disprove an alternate dimension afterlife. Especially given the nature of how bodies and souls work with respect to time there. Frieza was dead for nearly 15 years, which Shenron calls a long time, but revived Frieza calls a short absence. There's also Goku's perspective on time there.

At the very least, this would display a difference in time flow between dimensions. Idk how else Frieza would call nearly two decades of immobility a short time when he appears to be a child in Broly the same time Vegeta is a child. Even Vegeta says it's been far too long.

 

[Chariot190]

Do give an example of a space that voids any flow from the perspective of those inside.

Dog, it's literally a 1:1 passage of time.
Also DBZ, in and of itself, shows time discrepancies between dimensions with altered flow, passing by as you'd expect, the whole point of the ROSAT even. By this logic, the afterlife is a ROSAT on crack, despite 5m in other world being 5m in normal world and vice versa.

 

[Omegabronic]

At the very least, this would display a difference in time flow between dimensions. Idk how else Frieza would call nearly two decades of immobility a short time when he appears to be a child in Broly the same time Vegeta is a child. Even Vegeta says it's been far too long.

Not really as 1 year in the living world is exactly 1 year in the afterlife, we see that time in both flows the same in real time during the sayan saga.....plus the statement is "there is no time at all" and not "there is a different flow of time"

 

[RedReaper616]

Dog, it's literally a 1:1 passage of time.
Also DBZ, in and of itself, shows time discrepancies between dimensions with altered flow, passing by as you'd expect, the whole point of the ROSAT even. By this logic, the afterlife is a ROSAT on crack, despite 5m in other world being 5m in normal world and vice versa.

Except the Afterlife isn’t moving at relative time. There’s literally just none. And that doesn’t stop other dimensions from moving normally. Unless we’re to say the Timeline Zeno deleted (and has no time) means that the Timeline Goku and Co. inhabit must freeze as well? (It factually doesn’t when they travel by the way.) Because I notice no one ever brings it up.

 

[demonwarrior2266]

My opinion dont matter but for now i think op made best points so far, so agree fra

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Except the Afterlife isn’t moving at relative time. There’s literally just none.

Wait, I'm confused. Are we arguing Other World doesn't have time now?

 

[Chariot190]

Except the Afterlife isn’t moving at relative time. There’s literally just none.

And you're already wrong because we see dozens of times in DBZ that time passes 1:1, time passes, it does constantly, and we see it pass all the time.
"There's literally none", do you not comprehend what that actually entails? From Goku's or whoever's pov, while in the afterlife, time may as well be stopped, and no time? Anything that's a consequence of time ceases to be, cause and effect? Progression? Are you really going to make me gather the 100+ examples just to show the blatantly obvious thing that anyone who's read the manga, show, or whatever, would know?

Dude if Goku chills in the afterlife and is like "damn it's been a month", time passes, end of, and if it's also been a month in the actual world, then damn even worse.
You're confusing non-literal """"""""""""'anime""""""""""" timeless shit as actual lacking of time, they are not the same and they dont get treated the same on this wiki, ever.

 

[RedReaper616]

And you're already wrong because we see dozens of times in DBZ that time passes 1:1, time passes, it does constantly, and we see it pass all the time.
"There's literally none", do you not comprehend what that actually entails? From Goku's or whoever's pov, while in the afterlife, time may as well be stopped, and no time? Anything that's a consequence of time ceases to be, cause and effect? Progression? Are you really going to make me gather the 100+ examples just to show the blatantly obvious thing that anyone who's read the manga, show, or whatever, would know?

Dude if Goku chills in the afterlife and is like "damn it's been a month", time passes, end of, and if it's also been a month in the actual world, then damn even worse.
You're confusing non-literal """"""""""""'anime""""""""""" timeless shit as actual lacking of time, they are not the same and they dont get treated the same on this wiki, ever.

Except I’ve pointed out consistently, that time moving in an entirely separate dimension does not affect the time of a totally separate world. And, again, when Goku and Co. got to a literally Timeless Void left after Zeno’s erasure, they still moved, had cause and effect, etc. It literally just means it’s Timeless. How that interacts with Wiki is irrelevant, because your claim is based on actual canon, not what the Wiki should qualify it as. Your idea that time would suddenly freeze has no basis in any form of logic.

 

[RedReaper616]

Wait, I'm confused. Are we arguing Other World doesn't have time now?

I mean, I’ve always viewed it as true (as I’ve iterated multiple times in the Discussion thread), so yeah.

 

[Chariot190]

Except I’ve pointed out consistently, that time moving in an entirely separate dimension does not affect the time of a totally separate world.

Yeah. And you're wrong every time and completely ignore the massive fucky that time quite literally still moves.

And, again, when Goku and Co. got to a literally Timeless Void left after Zeno’s erasure, they still moved, had cause and effect, etc.

Two wrongs don't make a right, one off hand **** up doesn't excuse the few hundred for Other World.

That or he didn't delete it temporarily, if you want to go that route.

It literally just means it’s Timeless.

No, it means the exact opposite, it still has time.

Like what do you want me to say? You're wrong, factually, objectively, incorrect. It displays and demonstrates time, it has time. This is half the reason infinite speed via timeless shit got tossed because 99% of the time they still do, case and point, here.

How that interacts with Wiki is irrelevant,

Youre ON the wiki dude, either it adheres to our standards, or drop it.

because your claim is based on actual canon, not what the Wiki should qualify it as.

Do you not understand where you are? Do you need to be warned for not following standards?

Your idea that time would suddenly freeze has no basis in any form of logic.

Time doesnt exist, time can not flow. Despite that, not only does it flow, it flows at an identical rate, in a verse that straight up shows time discrepancies.
At the very ******* least, as long as Goku is in other world, any time there would feel like nothing in the mortal world, yet it's the exact same, as shown countless times.

 

[RedReaper616]

Yeah. And you're wrong every time and completely ignore the massive fucky that time quite literally still moves.

Nope.

Two wrongs don't make a right, one off hand **** up doesn't excuse the few hundred for Other World.

Dude the only thing "wrong" with Otherworld is based on faulty logic you refuse/simply cannot explain, after I've repeatedly asked.

"Why would it do blank?"

"It just would."

Has been the discussion every single time.

That or he didn't delete it temporarily, if you want to go that route.

He absolutely did. The Time Ring (the physical manifestation of a Time Line) was destroyed due to his Erasure.

No, it means the exact opposite, it still has time.

Like what do you want me to say? You're wrong, factually, objectively, incorrect. It displays and demonstrates time, it has time. This is half the reason infinite speed via timeless shit got tossed because 99% of the time they still do, case and point, here.

It never demonstrates time. At least, not a time we can "percieve." 1 month doesn't pass in Otherworld. Nothing passes in Otherworld, and people are able to leave that Timeless place to The MORTAL WORLD (which DOES demonstrate time), and appearing in the new time period. Time marches on without them. And any mention of time that does happen is always within context to the Mortal World ("The Saiyans arrived to EARTH a few months early," or "You won't make it to EARTH on time,") and as such people comment on that.

Youre ON the wiki dude, either it adheres to our standards, or drop it.

No? We categorize canon. Canon doesn't conform to us. We don't say "Well time clearly exists, the story lied." We are to say, "There is objectively no time, but it doesn't operate by our rules, so we must categorize it uniquely from that-Lacking time but not creating consequences." It's literally the whole reason verse pages exist and specific ability pages exist. In total, you're acting as if our words trump that of the actual fiction we classify. It doesn't.

Do you not understand where you are? Do you need to be warned for not following standards?

Time doesnt exist, time can not flow. Despite that, not only does it flow, it flows at an identical rate, in a verse that straight up shows time discrepancies.
At the very ******* least, as long as Goku is in other world, any time there would feel like nothing in the mortal world, yet it's the exact same, as shown countless times.

Goku literally comments on how Time passes here and not there in the Buu Saga. Frieza says the time he was there was "short" (literally 2 decades Mortal World Time). These individuals are the only ones who actually give testimony on it, and are also the only ones to experience it for sizable portions of Mortal Time, and they back each other up. Clearly, they do operate the way we would expect.

Also, you're conflating how the "Time Discrepancies" work with each other.

When they go to the RoSaT, they're not operating on "Relative Time." Time just passes quicker. As such, when Goku goes to the RoSaT, the only person who should be, (and is), affected are the individuals travelling. Not the ENTIRE REALM. Which is what we see happen. Time doesn't "move slower" when they go into the RoSaT. It literally just moves normally, without them. Similarly, time wouldn't ******* stop if they went to Otherworld and back. It literally works in a way entirely differently than what you're interpreting.

 

[Chariot190]

Nope.

Yuh huh

Dude the only thing "wrong" with Otherworld is based on faulty logic you refuse/simply cannot explain, after I've repeatedly asked.

What? That's LITERALLY how time works, if you don't understand what time even is, that's on you.

"Why would it do blank?"

"It just would."

Goddamn right it just would
If it has no time, that's how it'd function because that's how time functions. If you don't get what time even means, stop arguing about it.

Has been the discussion every single time.

Yeah, ****** up ain't it?

He absolutely did. The Time Ring (the physical manifestation of a Time Line) was destroyed due to his Erasure.

Damn, so DBZ is just super dogshit at adhering to logic and being consistent huh?

It never demonstrates time. At least, not a time we can "percieve." 1 month doesn't pass in Otherworld.

It literally does.
Every time.

What the ACTUAL hell are you talking about? There isn't even a debate to be had, you're just flat-out wrong, they do show it, all the time. Ya think if Goku went "erm, 1, 2, 3", in OW, that wouldn't count? Because he's done exactly that before.

Nothing passes in Otherworld, and people are able to leave that Timeless place to The MORTAL WORLD (which DOES demonstrate time), and appearing in the new time period. Time marches on without them. And any mention of time that does happen is always within context to the Mortal World ("The Saiyans arrived to EARTH a few months early," or "You won't make it to EARTH on time,") and as such people comment on that.

You literally just gave an example of time passing, wtf?

If Goku trains in Other World for a year, and a year passes in the mortal world too, damn, time passed in Other World.

You're quite literally just yapping and saying "nuh uh it doesn't count", if time didn't pass, to Goku, shit would be frozen from his PoV, yet, guess what? It ain't, minutes to him in OW, is minutes in the MW, and vice versa. Literally, all the time, whether it's Goku's few months training at the start of Super or whatever, time LITERALLY passes, the rules of time apply, facets of time demonstrably function, causes from a flow of time occur, etc.

No? We categorize canon. Canon doesn't conform to us. We don't say "Well time clearly exists, the story lied."

Yes we do, literally why we treat void feats as useless unless they explicitly show it as being truly timeless. Where have you been, it's been like that for about half a decade now?

We are to say, "There is objectively no time, but it doesn't operate by our rules, so we must categorize it uniquely from that-Lacking time but not creating consequences."

No, we literally just go "theyre wrong and yapped, sucks to suck", like every other verse that goes "uhm, timeless place" and then show it has time. DBZ isn't special dude.

It's literally the whole reason verse pages exist and specific ability pages exist. In total, you're acting as if our words trump that of the actual fiction we classify. It doesn't.

It quite literally does? Every calc, the very basis of our indexing, is based on our world. Every stat on this wiki comes from our world's logic.
If they say shit that's straightup wrong, we don't pretend it's true.

We have verse pages just to categorize that shit so people can click the profiles what

And specific ability pages, isnt the same as "hey this place literally doesnt work the way we said that one time lmao", a thing we LITERALLY have standards for already.

Goku literally comments on how Time passes here and not there in the Buu Saga.

And he's wrong, literally, 7 years passed for him just as it did there.
And then tack on the idk, 50 examples that show otherwise?

It's just yapping because it sounds cool, doesn't change the fact it demonstrates time. Just because a character yaps doesn't mean it's usable if the material contradicts the shit out of it and goes against standards, and yes, standards, you're on this wiki, follow them.

Frieza says the time he was there was "short" (literally 2 decades Mortal World Time).

Means absolutely nothing, we have no idea what's short or long to him, like if his ass is a 100 years old, shit would be short relatively. We don't know, but the fact is time passed even then, short amounts of time is still time. Aka, ya just proved it has time.

These individuals are the only ones who actually give testimony on it, and are also the only ones to experience it for sizable portions of Mortal Time, and they back each other up. Clearly, they do operate the way we would expect.

Expect they aren't? Time passes ALL the time, why pretend we don't see this hundreds of times? Even something as mundane as Perfect Cell regening.

Also, you're conflating how the "Time Discrepancies" work with each other.

Yeah, I am, because that's what the verse establishes, unlike a chunk of the DBZ goons I don't just make shit up and headcanon everything to fit an agenda.

When they go to the RoSaT, they're not operating on "Relative Time." Time just passes quicker.

No, it's literally an alt dimension with it's own time flow.
It isn't localized time acceleration wtf?

As such, when Goku goes to the RoSaT, the only person who should be, (and is), affected are the individuals travelling. Not the ENTIRE REALM.

Except everything in the ROSAT experiences time at a different rate compared to the mortal world because the ROSAT and the MW have two different time flows, aka, from the perspective of those within it, time passes at the proper relative rate.

Ie, if the OW had no time, Goku and whoever in it would experience it much like the ROSAT because that's quite literally what the verse establishes. That doesn't happen, it's 1:1.

Which is what we see happen. Time doesn't "move slower" when they go into the RoSaT. It literally just moves normally, without them.

They move at their relative rates dude, it's why it works to begin with

Similarly, time wouldn't ******* stop if they went to Otherworld and back. It literally works in a way entirely differently than what you're interpreting.

If time doesn't exist in other world, Goku's perception and experience of time would be static while in OW because time doesn't progress. Much like how his perception of time is 1 year to a day in the ROSAT, in OW, it'd be infinity to any time at all, as OW would be at a constant 0.

You're right, it does work differently, which is why it's not timeless.

It has zero qualities of being timeless, has every benefit exclusive to a time flow present, and actively shows time passing, it is not timeless. It doesn't matter if they say it is, it just isn't. Authors can be wrong ya know? Akira Toriyama didn't understand what no time actually entailed, statement doesn't corroborate actual mechanics and behavior, ergo we don't use it like the hundred other verses that say the same shit given this isn't uncommon and DBZ isn't about to get special treatment.

ALSO, if it lacks time it'd downgrade the cosmology anyway, cant be low 2-C without time, wouldnt count as a space-time, just space

 

[RedReaper616]

Yuh huh

What? That's LITERALLY how time works, if you don't understand what time even is, that's on you.

What time "is" IRL and what it's treated as "in story," can and HAVE been entirely different for countless narratives. We index what it is, not what we like it to be. Thus, this comment makes no ******* sense.

Goddamn right it just would
If it has no time, that's how it'd function because that's how time functions. If you don't get what time even means, stop arguing about it.

Read above.

Yeah, ****** up ain't it?

No, it shows a vast lack of desire to actually explain why you believe X, Y, and Z would happen. If I said the Sun was made of yarn, you asked me to say why, and then I go "It just is," that doesn't magically make it true, explain anything, or cover the litany of issues that would occur if it was true. At best you're being straight up unhelpful, since it's literally you refusing to explain.

Damn, so DBZ is just super dogshit at adhering to logic and being consistent huh?

Literally means we simply index it properly. Not refuse to engage with the source material.

It literally does.
Every time.

No. It doesn't.

What the ACTUAL hell are you talking about? There isn't even a debate to be had, you're just flat-out wrong, they do show it, all the time. Ya think if Goku went "erm, 1, 2, 3", in OW, that wouldn't count? Because he's done exactly that before.

Okay. What part of Otherworld's Time being non-existent (relative to the mortal world, since obviously they're still moving and whatnot), would make the act of counting a contradiction?

You literally just gave an example of time passing, wtf?

If Goku trains in Other World for a year, and a year passes in the mortal world too, damn, time passed in Other World.

You're quite literally just yapping and saying "nuh uh it doesn't count", if time didn't pass, to Goku, shit would be frozen from his PoV, yet, guess what? It ain't, minutes to him in OW, is minutes in the MW, and vice versa. Literally, all the time, whether it's Goku's few months training at the start of Super or whatever, time LITERALLY passes, the rules of time apply, facets of time demonstrably function, causes from a flow of time occur, etc.

To Goku, Time DIDN'T pass. He outright mentions it in regards to SSJ3. So again, what are you talking about? SECOND, if I exist in a Timeless realm, Time OUTSIDE that realm DOESN'T FREEZE. So Time moving OUTSIDE of it literally DOESN'T MATTER.

Yes we do, literally why we treat void feats as useless unless they explicitly show it as being truly timeless. Where have you been, it's been like that for about half a decade now?

No, we literally just go "theyre wrong and yapped, sucks to suck", like every other verse that goes "uhm, timeless place" and then show it has time. DBZ isn't special dude.

It quite literally does? Every calc, the very basis of our indexing, is based on our world. Every stat on this wiki comes from our world's logic.
If they say shit that's straightup wrong, we don't pretend it's true.

If a world says "Their Earth is 50x real Earth," we don't suddenly say the series is wrong for still having normal Earth physics. If they say their Souls are integral concepts that decide reality, we don't suddenly say their souls aren't souls. The same applies here. While obviously, we index based on our world, at no point do we deny the fictional one. We instead index appropriately. We adjust our calcs based on the GBE of that hypothetical planet, we list those Souls as both the Soul and a Concept. In that same way, we would not claim that the Timeless Void is not a Timeless Void. We would, and SHOULD, say it is not "OUR KIND" of Timeless Void.

We have verse pages just to categorize that shit so people can click the profiles what

And specific ability pages, isnt the same as "hey this place literally doesnt work the way we said that one time lmao", a thing we LITERALLY have standards for already.

We have verse and specific abilities pages for those purposes, but also to clarify information (with blogs) for verse specific information. Like how in JJK, the body and the Soul are one thing. Or how in GoW, Souls are made of multiple smaller facets in Norse Mythology. Or how in Naruto, their Chakra Networks are inherent to the biology of Naruto Humans. We account for the specific quirks of a world. In that same way, Dragon Ball isn't special and we should account for the Quirks of the Dragon World.

And he's wrong, literally, 7 years passed for him just as it did there.
And then tack on the idk, 50 examples that show otherwise?

It's just yapping because it sounds cool, doesn't change the fact it demonstrates time. Just because a character yaps doesn't mean it's usable if the material contradicts the shit out of it and goes against standards, and yes, standards, you're on this wiki, follow them.

Dude. My guy. "If it was blank, he would do X/mention it."
"But he verbatim does X/mention it."

"Well, he's just talking."

Is this not the epitome of shifting goalposts, 1? And 2, the Otherworld hasn't demonstrated time. It's simply demonstrated people can watch time pass without them in another dimension.

Means absolutely nothing, we have no idea what's short or long to him, like if his ass is a 100 years old, shit would be short relatively. We don't know, but the fact is time passed even then, short amounts of time is still time. Aka, ya just proved it has time.

No? Nothing has proved it has time. Also, 2 decades is not a short time period relative to one hundred years? It's like a fifth of his life? Also-also, fair on Frieza's life cycle, though.

Expect they aren't? Time passes ALL the time, why pretend we don't see this hundreds of times? Even something as mundane as Perfect Cell regening.

Cell regenerated in Otherworld...and reappeared moments later in the Living World. And all of that was offscreen. The only perspective of the Afterlife we get on that incident is Goku and King Kai, who've somehow already been checked in, gotten the body pass, and are floating above Snake Way in the 3 pages between the detonation and we see them. Also, I don't see how time passing without Cell (as he was not in Time) would affect Cell.

Yeah, I am, because that's what the verse establishes, unlike a chunk of the DBZ goons I don't just make shit up and headcanon everything to fit an agenda.

It establishes that dimensions with different time flows affect those within their time flows. Not interdimensionally. In fact, this is an active plot point in the Buu Saga. Piccolo mixes up the way the RoSaT works relative to the normal world because the only thing whose perspectives should be, and ARE, affected are the individuals.

No, it's literally an alt dimension with it's own time flow.
It isn't localized time acceleration wtf?

No one said it is? I'm saying it's an alt dimension with it's own flow. By your logic, that flow would leak out and make time pass quicker. Or that time would pass slower to the RoSaT. Hell, your own logic doesn't even make sense. Elder Kai was literally watching the Gotenks fight, from a different dimension entirely. Even if Otherworld has a time flow, by your logic this shouldn't be possible. Things should be moving 365x relative to their perception, and leak out into Otherworld and accelerate time. Your logic is literally simply not how it works. When Goku goes into the HTC, time doesn't "speed up." He simply enters a faster space time. No more and no less. This does not touch or affect any other space time. Just the things inside it. As such, when he leaves, he shall find time has passed without him, simply at a slower pace because that space time is slower. Identically, when Goku enters and leaves Otherworld, time passes without him, and he merely re-enters where Time is now.

Except everything in the ROSAT experiences time at a different rate compared to the mortal world because the ROSAT and the MW have two different time flows, aka, from the perspective of those within it, time passes at the proper relative rate.

Ie, if the OW had no time, Goku and whoever in it would experience it much like the ROSAT because that's quite literally what the verse establishes. That doesn't happen, it's 1:1.

They move at their relative rates dude, it's why it works to begin with

If time doesn't exist in other world, Goku's perception and experience of time would be static while in OW because time doesn't progress. Much like how his perception of time is 1 year to a day in the ROSAT, in OW, it'd be infinity to any time at all, as OW would be at a constant 0.

Read above.

It has zero qualities of being timeless, has every benefit exclusive to a time flow present, and actively shows time passing, it is not timeless. It doesn't matter if they say it is, it just isn't. Authors can be wrong ya know? Akira Toriyama didn't understand what no time actually entailed, statement doesn't corroborate actual mechanics and behavior, ergo we don't use it like the hundred other verses that say the same shit given this isn't uncommon and DBZ isn't about to get special treatment.

There's a difference between being wrong because you said something in an interview, and wrote a different thing (Death of the Author), and being "wrong" because you wrote one thing, repeated that thing, that thing is in the source material (thus objectively cannot be wrong), and people with no power over the source material are going "Nuh uh, not realistic enough."

 

[RedReaper616]

In fact, this is an active plot point in the Buu Saga. Piccolo mixes up the way the RoSaT works relative to the normal world because the only thing whose perspectives should be, and ARE, affected are the individuals.

No one said it is? I'm saying it's an alt dimension with it's own flow. By your logic, that flow would leak out and make time pass quicker. Or that time would pass slower to the RoSaT. Hell, your own logic doesn't even make sense. Elder Kai was literally watching the Gotenks fight, from a different dimension entirely. Even if Otherworld has a time flow, by your logic this shouldn't be possible. Things should be moving 365x relative to their perception, and leak out into Otherworld and accelerate time. Your logic is literally simply not how it works. When Goku goes into the HTC, time doesn't "speed up." He simply enters a faster space time. No more and no less. This does not touch or affect any other space time. Just the things inside it. As such, when he leaves, he shall find time has passed without him, simply at a slower pace because that space time is slower. Identically, when Goku enters and leaves Otherworld, time passes without him, and he merely re-enters where Time is now.

Because for some reason my links aren't appearing.

 

[Golden_Void]

While I still agree, I changed my stance on the afterlife for now after gathering more evidence. This series is contradictory at several points though, so I don't really care to argue.

 

[Chariot190]

What time "is" IRL and what it's treated as "in story," can and HAVE been entirely different for countless narratives. We index what it is, not what we like it to be. Thus, this comment makes no ******* sense.

No we dont? If you can't follow the standards, I'll be forced to report you, you realize that yes? While on wiki, in a CRT no less, you follow our standards, not yours.

Don't like it? Go to one of the other dozen wiki's out there, as long as you're here, you'll adhere to the standards and not make stuff up and use stuff we don't accept in a CRT.

OW has time, explicitly, and demonstrably, shown numerous times, thus it has time, nothing more, nothing less.

Read above.

I did.

No, it shows a vast lack of desire to actually explain why you believe X, Y, and Z would happen.

I have, you, quite literally, don't grasp what time entails, idk what else to say beyond that.
If you said the sky was green when it's blue, and I said no it's blue, because it shows the properties of being blue, and ya go "nuh uh", that's nobody's fault but your own. You don't get what being blue entails, what else am I supposed to say?

If I said the Sun was made of yarn, you asked me to say why, and then I go "It just is," that doesn't magically make it true, explain anything, or cover the litany of issues that would occur if it was true. At best you're being straight up unhelpful, since it's literally you refusing to explain.

Yeah, you're right, but if the sun WAS made of yarn, demonstrated being made of yarn, and has hundreds of examples being made of yarn, and ya said "nuh uh it lacks yarn", that'd be on you being dense or not knowing wtf yarn is or something.

Do I really need to explain to you like you're 5? OW displays the concept of time and everything it entails man, not much more needs to be said.

Literally means we simply index it properly. Not refuse to engage with the source material.

No, that's exactly what it means, the material made a fucky and is full of shit. So we don't use it.
Again, DBZ isnt special.

No. It doesn't.

It does every goddamn time.
Dozens, from the moment it's introduced, to the last time we've seen it.

I'm actually baffled, how the hell do you say that with a straight face?

Okay. What part of Otherworld's Time being non-existent (relative to the mortal world, since obviously they're still moving and whatnot), would make the act of counting a contradiction?

What? The fact it HAS TIME. It demonstrates time EVERY time, without fail, even when they say it doesn't it STILL does. Thus it doesn't qualify by standards and boo hoo it doesn't get the timeless world sticker.

To Goku, Time DIDN'T pass. He outright mentions it in regards to SSJ3. So again, what are you talking about? SECOND, if I exist in a Timeless realm, Time OUTSIDE that realm DOESN'T FREEZE. So Time moving OUTSIDE of it literally DOESN'T MATTER.

Except it has? The fact he had a training montage? Trains with dudes. The fact seven years passed? From HIS perspective?

Oh and just forget the dozens of time Goku and lads explicitly experience and measure time in OW without watching MW or whatever if that's what ya wanna argue.

Are you for real dude? Time passed, the fact he got anything done meant time passed. OW experiences a passage of time, the BEST you can argue, is dude's don't age? Maybe? But that's not even remotely the same as lacking time as a whole.

If a world says "Their Earth is 50x real Earth," we don't suddenly say the series is wrong for still having normal Earth physics.

Yeah we assume it's density then correlates to said size, in order to obtain 1g as to have the physics it displays.

And if they yap and spout wrong shit anyway, yeah we discard it, we JUST had a Metroid CRT where we tossed a planet's stated mass because it didn't add up.

LITERALLY a day ago. You're factually wrong on this front.

If they say their Souls are integral concepts that decide reality, we don't suddenly say their souls aren't souls. The same applies here.

Souls in and of themselves aren't subject to reality, because we don't even have a frame of reference for them irl.

We KNOW what time is, we know how time acts, we know what is a byproduct of time. It displays everything that it could only do if it had time, it simply doesn't act the same, ergo.

Unless ya wana argue time in DBZ isnt the same as irl? Then damn cool, they get downgraded then because the frame of reference is no longer valid.

So no, it doesn't, we have standards for timeless realms dude.

While obviously, we index based on our world, at no point do we deny the fictional one.

We do EVERYDAY, constantly. Is DBZ the only verse you interact with? We toss shit all the time because it doesn't follow irl standards, whether it's something minor like Ram skillfucking a dude 400x quicker than her, which we tossed because it's dumb, or the aforementioned explicit mass for Metroid planets because it doesn't add up with how they actually behave (gee almost like OW not behaving like said), or the dozens of other timeless worlds that we don't accept as timeless.

So yes, actually, we do do that.

We instead index appropriately.

Yeah, we index as it's shown a thousand times, not wrong statements because Akira Toriyama doesn't know what time is.

We adjust our calcs based on the GBE of that hypothetical planet,

This, again, ultra ironic.

we list those Souls as both the Soul and a Concept.

Souls (might) not even be real man and even irl, they vary between religions, quite literally an example of something ya can yap about and make shit up for, not the same for TIME.

In that same way, we would not claim that the Timeless Void is not a Timeless Void. We would, and SHOULD, say it is not "OUR KIND" of Timeless Void.

Youre on OUR wiki, so YES, you do.

Also we DO, we gave the Grand Priest time manip JUST to explain why time passes in a timeless void, even by accepted DBZ standards we dont just assume "erm they said timeless so **** actually being timeless".

We have verse snip

A slew of false equivalences, but go off on how "chakra" is somehow the same as a whole world showing time.
And yeah, DBZ isn't special, so it adheres to our standards, and doesn't get to be treated as an actual timeless place.

Dude. My guy. "If it was blank, he would do X/mention it."
"But he verbatim does X/mention it."

"Well, he's just talking."

Is this not the epitome of shifting goalposts, 1? And 2, the Otherworld hasn't demonstrated time. It's simply demonstrated people can watch time pass without them in another dimension.

Jesus christ, time shouldn't be this hard too grasp. It isn't just some cool word.
Talking requires time. Watching time pass requires time. Experiencing time entails time. Even just cause and effect, basic actions, etc all function due to the passage of time.
ALL OF THAT ENTAILS TIME.

If Goku is in OW, and he counts to 5, damn 5 seconds passed. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp, time exists.

No? Nothing has proved it has time. Also, 2 decades is not a short time period relative to one hundred years? It's like a fifth of his life? Also-also, fair on Frieza's life cycle, though.

You just said to him it was a short time.
TIME.

Time PASSED for him, he experienced time, thus OW has time. Do you not even read your own arguments?

Cell regenerated in Otherworld...and reappeared moments later in the Living World. And all of that was offscreen. The only perspective of the Afterlife we get on that incident is Goku and King Kai, who've somehow already been checked in, gotten the body pass, and are floating above Snake Way in the 3 pages between the detonation and we see them. Also, I don't see how time passing without Cell (as he was not in Time) would affect Cell.

Dude there was a good few minutes that took place.
Time passed there, time passed out, same rate.

Do you REALLY not understand what TIME means? A place without time, wouldn't experience the passage of time.

It establishes that dimensions with different time flows affect those within their time flows. Not interdimensionally. In fact, this is an active plot point in the Buu Saga. Piccolo mixes up the way the RoSaT works relative to the normal world because the only thing whose perspectives should be, and ARE, affected are the individuals.

Yeah, and yet in OW, Goku experiences time normally, we know this as the start of super he ***** off for a few months, and he KNOWS how long he's been gone for. He can obviously keep track of time there, because he experiences the same, because the MW and OW have the same rate of flow.

You are LITERALLY proving why OW doesn't have a different flow of time due to lacking time.

No one said it is? I'm saying it's an alt dimension with it's own flow.

You literally just did dude.

By your logic, that flow would leak out and make time pass quicker.

No? But it sure as hell effects one's perception of time. OW doesn't, ever, best ya got is Freeza, but no ignore blatant examples like Tien going "yeah, i dont mind staying dead for an extra year, it's only a year's wait lmao".

Or that time would pass slower to the RoSaT. Hell, your own logic doesn't even make sense. Elder Kai was literally watching the Gotenks fight, from a different dimension entirely.

Yeah, and? We don't know what it looked like from his pov.
Even so, that'd just be the verse being inconsistent as usual.

Even if Otherworld has a time flow, by your logic this shouldn't be possible. Things should be moving 365x relative to their perception, and leak out into Otherworld and accelerate time.

The **** is up with your strawmanning?

Time literally passes in OW, end of.

Your logic is literally simply not how it works. When Goku goes into the HTC, time doesn't "speed up." He simply enters a faster space time. No more and no less.

And to him, he experiences a whole year, in the same time as the outside does 1 day.
His perception and experience of time is tied to the flow of time. If OW DIDNT HAVE TIME, he wouldnt EXPERIENCE TIME, at all, yet he does.

This does not touch or affect any other space time. Just the things inside it. As such, when he leaves, he shall find time has passed without him, simply at a slower pace because that space time is slower. Identically, when Goku enters and leaves Otherworld, time passes without him, and he merely re-enters where Time is now.

What the actual hell are you talking about? OW doesn't even effect the shit inside it dude, time straight up is 1:1 between, and the fact they experience time, in any way, at all, in OW, means it has time because yuh huh that's what time means.

Read above.

There's a difference between being wrong because you said something in an interview, and wrote a different thing (Death of the Author), and being "wrong" because you wrote one thing, repeated that thing, that thing is in the source material (thus objectively cannot be wrong),

Do you really think that? We toss stated shit out all the time, it needs to actually show it, it does the opposite.

There is no difference, you literally just dont know how the wiki works ig.

and people with no power over the source material are going "Nuh uh, not realistic enough."

Yes, because youre on the wiki, tough shit.

Anyway


Damn here's Goku, in OW, saying "damn 6 months passed", after 6 months had passed.



Here's Kai going "hmm, theyll be there in 158 days, well ya have 158 days with me ig lmao".
inb4 "erm he said a thou-", yeah, he's saying his training good.



A OW resident going "oh a 100 million years ago, Enma did that lmao", showing a passage of time, and Goku going "oh hey in a year, do this" and then bro does that in literally a year exactly, showing, wow a year of time in OW, is a year in general, also the passage of time, in general.



Kami going "hey Goku, the next year will be hard for ya", because no shit, he has a year of time, but why even mention that if Goku doesn't experience time normally there? Oh but 1 page later they talk about time passing too, hmmm.


Hey here's the squad saying they don't mind waiting a year, because damn, it's ONLY a year, because not like they experience the passage of time directly.
Oh and "i'll spend time here" or "we're running out of time" - Piccolo.
How? Time doesnt exist there, how will piccolo run out of time to train?

I'd post like a hundred more, because this happens ALL the time, but forum only enables 5 imgur links at a time, anyway, yeah no, you're wrong. Time passes, they experience time despite your blatantly vague examples like Freeza who proves time passes anyway, time passes 1:1 with MW even, but even if it was slower in OW, slow time is still time, OW displays all the mechanics and exclusive traits that time entails, and no, we don't get to treat DBZ as a special lil boy that gets to have a funny timeless world, because functionally and demonstrably, that does not apply. Don't like it? Go make a thread about how we can just make up stuff to fit agendas.

Your argument essentially boils down to "well they SAY it so it doesn't matter if it's wrong", yeah no, not wasting any more time on blatant disregard of standards, and willful ignorance.

**** idk why even ya want this, it'd downgrade the macrocosm to low 2-C even if OW is a diff world given it'd just be space, no time, regardless of the OP. it'd even **** with the hypertime, kai realm, and everything inbetween

 

[Hasty12345]

Can someone explain to me the strategic benefit of arguing the OW doesn’t have time when low 2-C is for spacetime continuums?

it feels like derailing at this point.

 

[Chariot190]

Can someone explain to me the strategies benefit of arguing the OW doesn’t have time when low 2-C is for spacetime continuums?

it feels like derailing at this point.

yeah see someone gets it