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Dragon Ball's Main Cannon Timeline number downgrade

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I mean, I wonder what it actually translates to.

As I believe the pages I linked here are the source of that scan.


0001739067.octet-stream
0001739069.octet-stream
 
Also I remember executor saying something about toriyama originally coming up with the ideas for the cosmology and the structure of it which was used in the anime, and was created for filler to be added, and that stuff stays the same in the manga, like the afterlife, kaioshin realm, living realm, obviously, wouldn't this mean it can, and should be used across all mediums? The macrocosm is pretty much depicted the same, and things like heaven being universal is not contradicted at all. Right here, why shouldn't we be allowed to NOT use these ideas and elements across the series? Not using it makes no sense to me.
 
Doesnt this literally prove some of OP's points in how numbered the unis are, given bro is shocked simply to find an extra, which is the byproduct of Beerus changing the future.

All this scam confirms is deliberate changes in the past can create a new timeline if it differs from an established future, and that they magically show up in that box, a limited amount.
Yeah... if Zamasu says that there are five timelines (or at least supposed to be just five timelines at that point) then that proves that new timelines aren't being created all the time from chance and choices.
 
And...??? Beerus did that by himself. Even assuming said event only happened thanks to Trunks, Beerus' action shouldn't have branched the timeline, which is the focal point here.
It should since it created a time paradox/changes history, which creates other timelines, being his action really doesn't matter for the fact that it was the indirect result of Trunks changing history, thus changing Beerus' action and then creating another timeline, if it was due to MWI creating via actions regardless of time travel then every moment billions of time rings should be created in every passing moment, yet Whis talks about Beerus' time ring creation as the same kind of deal as Trunks' with his time travel

In a multiverse where only time travel splits the timeline, such an action should have not,yet it did,no matter how you try to explain it. This isn't a matter of information, it's a matter of logic. It's literally a loophole.
Nope, it was because of time travel changing actions, that is what creates new timelines, the changing of actions, we are told as much in supplementary material, Whis and himself even treat thag as the same transgration as Trunks' time travel creating it

Time Rings are created when time travel is involved according to you. MWI acts even with quantum interactions, so no Time Ring would get created by your logic.
time ringa are created when a parallel world is, that is what is said, also your example of Beerus, which you say is part of MWI, created a time ring, which according to you it sholdn't happen?
 
Besides that, I do think that the Cosmologies would be the same across all the continuities due to the authors seemingly treating them as the same across all medias, Toriyama himself believes that the anime and manga are even the same, so yeah.

They weren't composited due to them being in same multiverse, but due to authors not believing there are any differences between them.

Plus, arguing that DBGT characters stomp DBS ones coz "lol cosmology" is just absurd.

Now, the downgrade of the universes to 3-A/Low 2-C is another thing altogether.
Actually they were comoosited because of being in the same multiverse, i was there when it happened
 
time ringa are created when a parallel world is, that is what is said, also your example of Beerus, which you say is part of MWI, created a time ring, which according to you it sholdn't happen?
Not what I said. I said parallel worlds,not Time Rings. Don't put words into my mouth. In fact, Null's explanation about Hakai affecting space-time is much more consistent, if we're going down that route.
Nope, it was because of time travel changing actions, that is what creates new timelines, the changing of actions, we are told as much in supplementary material, Whis and himself even treat thag as the same transgration as Trunks' time travel creating it
By your logic, if Trunks was indeed the cause of it, that means the world where Zamasu didn't get erased (the one created by Beerus) already existed. It would've made sense if it was talking about Goku Black's original timeline,but it isn't.
It should since it created a time paradox/changes history,
Time paradoxes aren't a thing in MWI-ish multiverses. Pretty much any branching multiverse theory is literally the antithesis of time paradoxes, with MWI being the textbook example.
 
Also I remember executor saying something about toriyama originally coming up with the ideas for the cosmology and the structure of it which was used in the anime, and was created for filler to be added, and that stuff stays the same in the manga, like the afterlife, kaioshin realm, living realm, obviously, wouldn't this mean it can, and should be used across all mediums? The macrocosm is pretty much depicted the same, and things like heaven being universal is not contradicted at all. Right here, why shouldn't we be allowed to NOT use these ideas and elements across the series? Not using it makes no sense to me.
people, how many times do i have to say to make anothet if you want to try and make thos accepted? Luffy tried that already and it was rejected, that is not used currently to justify the share


Hell, i am not even saying i disagree, just make another thread for it, for this thread this is derail. I will not try to make something already rejected into a proposal of a thread covering a completely different topic, just make another thread jesus
 
people, how many times do i have to say to make anothet if you want to try and make thos accepted? Luffy tried that already and it was rejected, that is not used currently to justify the share


Hell, i am not even saying i disagree, just make another thread for it, for this thread this is derail. I will not try to make something already rejected into a proposal of a thread covering a completely different topic, just make another thread jesus
If it's related to the content at hand, which it is, to an extent, it's fine to be discussed.
 
@Damage3245

Why was this thread moved from our staff discussion forum? It has turned very spammy and unmanageable now.
 
Not what I said. I said parallel worlds,not Time Rings.
More parallel worlds = more time rings, that is the very basis of how they are created

Don't put words into my mouth. In fact, Null's explanation about Hakai affecting space-time is much more consistent, if we're going down that route.
It being a time paradox's fault is in line with what is said in the series tho

By your logic, if Trunks was indeed the cause of it, that means the world where Zamasu didn't get erased (the one created by Beerus) already existed. It would've made sense if it was talking about Goku Black's original timeline,but it isn't.
not really, it would only have been once the paradox happened

also i am pretty sure that in the manga at least this is what happens

Time paradoxes aren't a thing in MWI-ish multiverses. What???
.......i never affirmed they aren't? Just that this is not what you were arguing Beerus' ring creation was

Also you ignored the part about him and whis treating it as the same type of thing that Trunks did with his time travels
 
If it's related to the content at hand, which it is, to an extent, it's fine to be discussed.
Not when it was already rejected recently

@Damage3245

Why was this thread moved from our staff discussion forum? It has turned very spammy and unmanageable now.
I asked for it due to personal reasons, some of my friends wanted to comment on it

If in the staff's opinion it should have stayed a staff thread, feel free to change it back if you so judge it needs to
 
More parallel worlds = more time rings, that is the very basis of how they are created


It being a time paradox's fault is in line with what is said in the series tho
It's effectively not a time paradox. What Beerus did is cause and effect. His action (erasing Zamasu) led to another (parallel world). You keep saying it's due to Trunks when it's effectively Beerus who ended up splitting it. It's directly stated by Whis, and no matter how you twist it, it was due to him EE'ing Zamasu. So either Hakai can affect space-time (stated by Beerus even if we don't accept it) or actions do influence the multiverse.
Also you ignored the part about him and whis treating it as the same type of thing that Trunks did with his time travels
It's the same because...He created another timeline? That's literally the point. Beerus kept waffling about Trunks time traveling's side effects for the whole arc only for him to end up doing the same. Whis even mocks him for that before telling him.
 
It's effectively not a time paradox. What Beerus did is cause and effect. His action (erasing Zamasu) led to another (parallel world).
yes, because originally he didn't erased Zamsu, making him become Goku Black, but since he erased him, he couldn't become Goku Black, creating a paradox that created another timeline, again, because of trunks chaging things with time travel

You keep saying it's due to Trunks when it's effectively Beerus who ended up splitting it. It's directly stated by Whis, and no matter how you twist it, it was due to him EE'ing Zamasu.
WHich he only did due to Trunks changing history, changing Beerus' actions, leading him to erase Zamasu, no matter you twist it, it was because of Trunks, even if indirectly

So either Hakai can affect space-time (stated by Beerus even if we don't accept it) or actions do influence the multiverse.
And you forget how Whis treats it as the same as when Trunks changed history, which is the same here, originally Zamasu bacame Black, then Trunks' changed history, leading Beerus to erase zamasu, and as history was changed a new timeline was created

It's the same because...He created another timeline? That's literally the point.
Which according to you would happen with every action, which would make its creation nothing special, yet it is still treated as the same transgression as what trunks did, which it is since it is the same alteration of history that made another timeline exist

Beerus kept waffling about Trunks time traveling's side effects for the whole arc only for him to end up doing the same. Whis even mocks him for that before telling him.
So you agree that it was because of a time travel side effect? Thus why whis mocks beerus for doing the same as trunks?
 
yes, because originally he didn't erased Zamsu, making him become Goku Black, but since he erased him, he couldn't become Goku Black, creating a paradox that created another timeline, again, because of trunks chaging things with time travel


WHich he only did due to Trunks changing history, changing Beerus' actions, leading him to erase Zamasu, no matter you twist it, it was because of Trunks, even if indirectly


And you forget how Whis treats it as the same as when Trunks changed history, which is the same here, originally Zamasu bacame Black, then Trunks' changed history, leading Beerus to erase zamasu, and as history was changed a new timeline was created

These will be my last comments here, because I'm really not interested that much in this. Im

1.2.3 ) was due to Hakai affecting space-time (stated by Beerus and confirmed by Goku Black who survived thanks to the Time Ring, literally has acausality for that) and because of Trunks.

4) I don't agree it was Trunks' doing at all. Mind you, btw, the Hakai point is much more consistent than your complex assumptions, and it has two in-verse statements by incredibly knowledgeable and reliable sources. And, most of all, they support your point.
 
Doesnt this literally prove some of OP's points in how numbered the unis are, given bro is shocked simply to find an extra, which is the byproduct of Beerus changing the future.

All this scam confirms is deliberate changes in the past can create a new timeline if it differs from an established future, and that they magically show up in that box, a limited amount.
That doesn’t make sense because Beerus is not time traveling. He went to universe 10 to erase Zamasu I’m the present and that just created a timeline without him. It doesn’t help his point at all.
main-qimg-91eab30dc92cda371619aa9c909de87c-lq
 
That doesn’t make sense because Beerus is not time traveling. He went to universe 10 to erase Zamasu I’m the present and that just created a timeline without him. It doesn’t help his point at all.
main-qimg-91eab30dc92cda371619aa9c909de87c-lq
Which was due to history being changed due to that, so it does help, if all possibilities become other timelines, and by proxy also time rings, then why 1 being created would be surprising and why would only 5 rings be said to exist?
 
That doesn’t make sense because Beerus is not time traveling. He went to universe 10 to erase Zamasu I’m the present and that just created a timeline without him. It doesn’t help his point at all.
main-qimg-91eab30dc92cda371619aa9c909de87c-lq
It confirms a negligible amount of timelines in no less than 3 ways. And if it proves that, it by indirect consequence, proves a fucktillion arent formed moment to moment, and that they are rarely, if ever, created. Which, is the important part imo.

Beerus' action has a bunch of caveats tacked on exempting it anyhow.
Also remember, gokus timeline is in the past, not the present.
 
It confirms a negligible amount of timelines in no less than 3 ways. And if it proves that, it by indirect consequence, proves a fucktillion arent formed moment to moment, and that they are rarely, if ever, created. Which, is the important part imo.
That’s pure headcanon. OP said one thing the source material says otherwise. The main point that’s being made is that new timelines are only created by time travel and that it has nothing to do with character’s actions. If you acknowledge that Beerus a character who never once time traveled in the entire series did just that. Then it’s a big hole in the OP argument.
Beerus' action has a bunch of caveats tacked on exempting it anyhow.
Based on what? We can’t pick and choose when to acknowledge the canon.

Matter a fact this whole scene proves that gods are not except from the rules of time travel.
 
That’s pure headcanon. OP said one thing the source material says otherwise. The main point that’s being made is that new timelines are only created by time travel and that it has nothing to do with character’s actions. If you acknowledge that Beerus a character who never once time traveled in the entire series did just that. Then it’s a big hole in the OP argument.
Would Beerus have killed Zamasu if Trunks hadn't travelled back in time?
 
That’s pure headcanon. OP said one thing the source material says otherwise. The main point that’s being made is that new timelines are only created by time travel and that it has nothing to do with character’s actions. If you acknowledge that Beerus a character who never once time traveled in the entire series did just that. Then it’s a big hole in the OP argument.
Literally all that matters, is how many there are, if there's only a handful, a fact that's flatout stated like 3-4 times now, then it by direct association confirms a bunch arent being made constantly.
Not only can Beerus be handwaved due to Trunks fuckery, whis and beerus' own statements, and the very fact u7 is in the past, not the present, but none of that changes the total amount of timelines, which is less than 10. Like at that point it dont matter WHY there's only that many, fact is there's only like what, 7?

Based on what? We can’t pick and choose when to acknowledge the canon.

Matter a fact this whole scene proves that gods are not except from the rules of time travel.
Based on that? The fact it's the past? And the fact it already involves time travel?

I think you're confusing me with OP lad, I said it supported some of his points, it does. It supports the ultimate crux, the details or some of the side stuff? Maybe not, but at that point it doesnt matter if the conclusion is proven true anyway.
 
Wouldn’t matter Trunks didn’t travel back in time. The Time Machine sent him to another timeline. It’s not time travel because they’re not moving throughout their own timeline they’re moving between each others.
e9688c769dc0fc09acaa9ed3afdfe388.jpg
Bro, the android saga didnt not happen. It's an alternate timeline by direct result of time travel that had already happened...
 
Literally all that matters, is how many there are, if there's only a handful, a fact that's flatout stated like 3-4 times now, then it by direct association confirms a bunch arent being made constantly.
Not only can Beerus be handwaved due to Trunks fuckery, whis and beerus' own statements, and the very fact u7 is in the past, not the present, but none of that changes the total amount of timelines, which is less than 10. Like at that point it dont matter WHY there's only that many, fact is there's only like what, 7?
A bunch pertaining to their situation are not being made. But it’s not addressing the point 1. OP was wrong about timelines only being created through time travel, and 2. That Trunks is traveling through Parallel Worlds not throughout his own. There is not time travel nonsense going on. It’s just Trunks going to another timelines to warn the Z fighters.
Based on that? The fact it's the past? And the fact it already involves time travel?
It doesn’t though that’s the main point.
 
A bunch pertaining to their situation are not being made. But it’s not addressing the point 1. OP was wrong about timelines only being created through time travel, and 2. That Trunks is traveling through Parallel Worlds not throughout his own. There is not time travel nonsense going on. It’s just Trunks going to another timelines to warn the Z fighters.
It only became another timeline after Trunks went back and changed things by killing Frieza & Cold.
 
A bunch pertaining to their situation are not being made. But it’s not addressing the point 1. OP was wrong about timelines only being created through time travel
not really since Beerus was because of time travel, when history changes, another timeline is created, therefore when Beerus changed history by making Zamasu not become Goku Black, another timeline came forth, no different than when trunks created another timeline, as he says so himself his travel was the thing that created it

2. That Trunks is traveling through Parallel Worlds not throughout his own. There is not time travel nonsense going on. It’s just Trunks going to another timelines to warn the Z fighters.

It doesn’t though that’s the main point.
Nope, the entire point of the black arc is that trunks created those by changing history with his time travels, that is the whole beef Zamasu has with him even
 
Bro, the android saga didnt not happen. It's an alternate timeline by direct result of time travel that had already happened...
It did trunks came to another reality to warn the Z fighters. And there’s blatant plot points that can’t happen if we assume Trumks is from the same timeline. Like the fact that every Z warrior not named Trunks is either dead or was never born.

Or even the fact Zeno erased said timeline yet all the characters clearly aren’t gone.
 
It did trunks came to another reality to warn the Z fighters. And there’s blatant plot points that can’t happen if we assume Trumks is from the same timeline. Like the fact that every Z warrior not named Trunks is either dead or was never born.

Or even the fact Zeno erased said timeline yet all the characters clearly aren’t gone.
He was from the same timeline, he went back in time and another one was crested due to him changing history, that is said in both suplementary material, the manga and in the show itself
 
It only became another timeline after Trunks went back and changed things by killing Frieza & Cold.
That’s just blatantly untrue, matter a fact OP points blatantly work agains this when the scan states trunks know he wasn’t charging the future by alternating the past.
 
bunch pertaining to their situation are not being made.
Bro, where is this even coming from? Im seeing multiple scans saying that that's ALL of them. They dont specify, they dont limit it, and why would they? They dont know which pertains to what to begin with, half the problem is they dont know whats going on in both cases, both the main cast, and later Zamasu.
But it’s not addressing the point 1. OP was wrong about timelines only being created through time travel, and 2. That Trunks is traveling through Parallel Worlds not throughout his own. There is not time travel nonsense going on.
None of this matters, im not here to argue if every point is 100% solid, all i care about is the point im arguing.
It’s just Trunks going to another timelines to warn the Z fighters.
A timeline, that is set in the past, by product of his time travel.

That scan proves my point. He specifically says "when the past is changed".

Now, are these things true?

Is the main timeline not already a byproduct of time travel?
Is it actually the past, not the present? (This is rhetorical, either way you go about it, a future where beerus died had already been set in stone without intervention).
Would Beerus have killed Zamasu if Trunks hadnt warned him?


If these hold true, then it's a change in the past, changing the future, making a new timeline.

But, alas, none of this changes only a few exist, the specifics aint changing less than 10 exist.
 
That’s just blatantly untrue, matter a fact OP points blatantly work agains this when the scan states trunks know he wasn’t charging the future by alternating the past.
I didn't say he was changing his own future.

But he was changing the future of the time he travelled back to because he travelled back to it. Trunks even wonders if the differences he's noting could have been caused by him travelling back in time. If a person travelling back in time didn't cause any changes, why would Trunks ask this?
 
It did trunks came to another reality to warn the Z fighters.
He went to the past, changed it, and it branched off into a new timeline.
And there’s blatant plot points that can’t happen if we assume Trumks is from the same timeline. Like the fact that every Z warrior not named Trunks is either dead or was never born.
Because he changed it, creating a new one with a new future?
Or even the fact Zeno erased said timeline yet all the characters clearly aren’t gone.
Because it became a separate timeline after the fact?
Also dont give me any ideas dog
 
Basically a spontaneous change in the past (such as retroactively erasing someone in the past or travelling to the past) = an entirely new timeline and all differing actions from previous timeline would not create more timelines as they'd be a part of the new timelines time progression as it's a completely new timeline with different subsequent events. Not really that hard of a concept to follow. I don't see how 2-B timelines can be gotten when it fundamentally goes against how time travel and time rings are treated.
 
Bro, where is this even coming from? Im seeing multiple scans saying that that's ALL of them. They dont specify, they dont limit it, and why would they? They dont know which pertains to what to begin with, half the problem is they dont know whats going on in both cases, both the main cast, and later Zamasu.
Them knowing of Zamasu existence is irrelevant though. It’s not even what the OP was arguing about. He’s saying timelines only come about new through alternating history. Beerus clearly kills this assumption right off the bat. It’s that simple.
None of this matters, im not here to argue if every point is 100% solid, all i care about is the point im arguing.
It’s not if it has a glaring contradiction with the narrative.
A timeline, that is set in the past, by product of his time travel.

That scan proves my point. He specifically says "when the past is changed".

Now, are these things true?

Is the main timeline not already a byproduct of time travel?
Is it not actually the past, not the present? (This is rhetorical, either way you go about it, a future where beerus died had already been set in stone without intervention).
Would Beerus have killed Zamasu if Trunks hadnt warned him?


If these hold true, then it's a change in the past, changing the future, making a new timeline.

But, alas, none of this changes only a few exist, the specifics aint changing less than 10 exist.
Again no just because you’re chronologically in the past in a completely unrelated timeline is not time travel in the way the poster is supposing. They’re saying Time is only meant to flow in one direction so when you go to the past it changes the future. This can’t happen if so there would not be a new time ring creating through Beerus actions.

The main timeline is a byproduct of Trunks actions making a new timeline and him going to said timeline that’s not time traveling.

And there is less than ten time rings that are relevant to the plot. It’s why they were shocked when there was a new one. Because it was pertaining to their situation. Not the room full of them.
 
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