Some stuff about Tekken tiering, scaling, feats and more

[Antvasima]

You can check here: Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I checked and it fits the criteria of reflecting from something and coming from a realistic source, the weapon he carries

Dont see it to fall under anything that dismisses it on that page

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that it is probably fine then.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

It needs a calc or something if its accepted now?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

the feat is non-canon, Tekken Tag 2 is not canon

 

[BlackDarkness679]

We discussed already above about tag 2 and was accepted, so dont come here without knowing what you talking please, i had enough of these users with no profile pics showing up randomly here

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

stop being so ******* disrespectful already to anyone who opposes your upgrades already . You dont own this place, I'm freely allowed to criticise or agree with a CRT, just like everyone else. I dont need a profile pic in order to participate on this wiki, that's just ridicolous, VSBW is not a social media site or a dating site.

As for the thread, care to list me the reason you think Tekken Tag is canon? Where is the proof of this? All that was discussed about that in this thread was:"Considering there were multiple flashbacks of Tekken Blood Vengeance and Tekken Tag 2 events during Tekken 7's story, I support feats and scaling from them being taken into consideration as well." which is hardly evidence for anything. There are plenty of evidence as for why Tekken Tag 1 and Tekken Tag 2 are non-canon such as:

- Ogre was killed in Tekken 3 by Jin, yet appears in Tekken Tag 1 and in Tekken Tag 2.

- Jinpatchi was killed by Jin in Tekken 5, yet appears in Tekken Tag 2.

- Kazuya didnt appear in any Tekken tournament between Tekken 2 and Tekken 4, as frequently stated in the series, yet he appeared in Tekken Tag 1 with 0 explanation given.

- Jun was dead before Tekken 3, yet appears in Tekken Tag 1 and Tekken Tag 2, with 0 explanation given.

- Baek was hospitalized by Ogre prior to Tekken 3, until Tekken 5, which is why he didnt appear in Tekken 3 and 4, yet he appears in Tekken Tag 1 with 0 explanation given?

- Raven was wounded by Dragonuv during Tekken 6, which is why he doesnt appear in Tekken 7.

I could go on and on. There are too many continuity errors for Tekekn Tag 1 and Tag 2 to be canon, and 0 evidence that supports it being canon. Tekken Tag has never been stated or implied to be canon. Tekken Tag 1 and Tag 2 are games that are made to ignore continuity, and bring every character from the series in 1 game. This is why there are no mentions of any event of Tekken Tag 1 and 2 in any other Tekken game.

 

[Antvasima]

Is the laser feat derived from a non-canon source?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

@doorinthehouse

The tag games have no story to say they contradict anything just because the characters you said appeared, even in tekken 7 someone like Kazumi appears in the game yet she is dead before tekken 1, are you gonna complain of that too now and call the gane non canon cuz she is in the game?None of the characters mentioned return lore wise from dead, they are put in the game like Kazumi(what if)

Tekken 7 has flashbacks from tag 2 and others like julia wrestler persona jaycee which is from tag 2 only said there, if they are shown along past tekken games it means they are acknowledged to have events of it happen

Also Dragunov didnt wound Raven, neither is Jun dead(said by Harada to be missing only)

Im not disrespectful to anyone here, you on the other hand though....also i cant take no profile pics accounts seriously when they are just newly made accounts that come to complain for 2-3 things and never return any soon at all after

@ant

Its from tag 2 but it was already discussed above if its ok and asked knowledgable members about it be taken in consideration for canon given the series shows about it

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. What are the arguments for and against its canonicity, in summary?

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

@BlackDarkness679

You were disrespectful to not just me, but also that other guy that were criticising a calc.

Kazumi's apperance in Tekken 7 is explained by Harada to be her ghost , so you're wrong about that. There is an actual explanation for her appearance in T7, unlike many characters in Tekken Tag . Tekken 7 can have as many flashback from Tekken Tag 2 as they want, doesnt change how non canon it is, Dragunov did wound Raven, watch Dragonov's ending in T6 and play as Master Raven in Tekken 7.

Master Raven mentions Dragunov being the reason Raven is absent at Tekken 7, I dont give a **** if you cant take no profile pics, I dont post on VSBW to satisfy you, my account was made months ago, what did I complain about? Why do I need to return soon? Who do you think you are?

@Antvasima my arguments against canoncity are various continuity erros, such as many characters being present in Tekken Tag that died long before them , and characters that were stated to be too injured to enter T3 & T4 somehow entering Tekken Tag 1 with 0 explanations.

Blackdarkness679 argument for canoncitty is that there where flashback from Tekken Tag 1 and Tag 2 in the Tekken 7 story mode + Julia is mentioned to be a wrestler on the Tekken 7 official site, something that was only ever mentioned before T7 in Tekken Tag 2.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

@Antvasima BlackDarkness679 argument for canoncity is the same as people saying that the Dragon Ball Z anime is canon to Dragon Ball Super and the original Dragon Ball manga, because a few flashback from the Z anime appeared in Dragon Ball Super, but obviously that does not make Z-anime canon to Super.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That does sound unreliable, yes.

 

[AKM sama]

@BlackDarkness679

You need to make an effort to be more calm when trying to get your point across. Saying someone's opinion is stupid or that you can't take them seriously just because they don't have any profile pic doesn't help you, nor your point. Thank you.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

@dootinmyhouse

You came here cursing and talking shit buddy dont try to twist it, between us you started and act like you are a big deal, your opinion which is exactly like i said plus more


Dragunov didnt wound Raven, first of all Dragunov in his ending had to capture Azazel which didnt happen, Jin killed him and fought Azazel, Raven was in the desert where his team found Jin, nothing with Dragunov, M Raven says he was the guy giving Raven trouble, not that he wounded him nor the reason why she is there instead of him, debunked here


Tag 1 and Tag 2 has no story at all unlike the others, just endings and thats it, so you saying it contradicts the others based on nothing is utterly wrong, flashbacks in the main game story of T7 shows events in past, if those were non canon they wouldnt have showed them, events that didnt happen shouldnt be shown then, the fact they do proves some things happened in canon


Jaycee which was a thing for Tag 2 is mentioned in her story for entering in the tournament in T7 and DLC=/=non canon, this is just a lame attempt of disproving, Dark649 which worked the most of this verse has in his blog there things from tag 2 and tag 1 counted for the canon of the series and he has more knowledge then you 100% on Tekken


The dead characters appearing in both tag games doesnt affect anything, there is no story for in these games as i said and they werent said to be back in canon or anything, there is no error at all, they are "what ifs" in them, which anyone can tell easily

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The knowledgable members on Tekken agreed with it when u asked them, told them the deal about it too, your single vote against it doesnt change anything, especially with flawed arguments and acting like a jerk and personal head canon

Dragon ball canonicity isnt the same as Tekken bad comparison and reffering or acknowledging something in canon that was thought non canon before means that the events there happened not to mention if they integrate things from it to the canon too like Jaycee

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

you cant insult and be condescending to someone and then whine like a toddler when a person starts cursing, that's not how it works buddy. I didnt start shit, how delusional are you?

How does Dragonuv finding azazel contradict Jin killing him? Do you think Jin took Azazel with him? Dragonuv didnt capture Azazel, all he did was find its dead body. Why do you think Raven isnt in T7? We see Dragonuv and Raven's interaction only in Dragonov and Raven's ending.

Tag 1 and Tag 2 do have stories, and lol, now you're contradicting yourself, if they have no story then how is anything from Tag 1 or 2 supposed to be canon to T7? What do you think those flashbacks are a part of?

If there is no story in Tag 1 & 2, then how the **** is the story of Tag 1 or Tag 2 supposed to be canon to Tekken 7? You are not making any sense. If they are "what ifs" then guess what, THEY ARE NOT CANON. Do you know what "canon" means?

JayCee first appeared in Tag 2, yes, so what? Does that make every event in Tag 2 canon? No it doesnt, again, for the same reason Z isnt canon to Dragon Ball Super, even though Super has flashbacks from Z.

Learn what an analogy is, I never said Dragon Ball canoncity is the same as Tekken's. Read my analogy again.

And you're telling me that I'm acting like a jerk, even though you are the one who started insulting me for no reason? Are you being for real?

 

[Antvasima]

Can both of you please calm down and handle this discussion in a more respectful manner please?

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

sure

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with AKM Sama and Antvasima, everyone needs to stop attacking each other, if it persists, we may need to take action.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The only thing the tag games have are openings and endings, there is no story mode at all in these, what contradictions you gonna have from them huh?


Never said all endings in them are canon, as much as not all endings in the main games are either, not hard to see which are fine for use and which arent, in T7 they shows few scenes from the tag games that they have, as well as they do for the main games the same in the flashbacks, meaning tag 1 and 2 are part of the canon (with what can be counted for the series), if you cant even understand that i dont have anything else to how stubborn you are on this head canon of yours


Kage, Gill, Akuma appeared in SF5 as DLC with their own story in this installment, you will claim them non canon cuz they are DLC? Julia story says her deal in T7, as much any character in the game, its no different from Paul, Bob or Yoshimitsu story in the game, Anna story ties with Nina, you will say its non canon too just cuz she was added later as new content?


DLC=/=non canon and guest characters(except Akuma) are never considered canon, they are guests for a reason, they dont change or have any deal with the series they get in, not only you compare two entirely different things(a legacy character and guest one) you also insist strictly on your own personal opinion that she shouldnt count just cuz you say so


What ifs are the characters that arent present during the intervals of games or which are dead, clearly you didnt read at all, even then, Ogre ending in tag 2 shows him causing destruction what its contradicting here?it doesnt say he is alive beyond T3 or affects anything in the lore its just him destroying stuff there, thats all in it, no different then Feng ending in T6 where he destroys a ball of lava, it affects anything?No


The temple crumbled down after the Jin killed Azazel, Dragunov in his ending shows the temple still intact, also whats proof to say his body was still intact afterwards?None at all, his ending implies he beat him which didnt happen and Raven when he arrives and finds Jin body, there is no temple anymore, you will tell me he somehow got to Dragunov after there is nothing left? In T7 we even see Raven with Jin body there in the story nowhere implies he got hurt by Dragunov

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I talked with the knowledgable members of the series, told them the deal with this, if they agree with all this and asked Ant here too if its all good


You just come here start to speak agressively, use curse words like f***ing and what not, use Cap Locks for more agressive talk and you started this, all i told you from start is dont talk if you dont know what was discussed comments ago and that i had it with users that just come to point something they think its wrong and then they dont return after, where i was rude or insulted you there huh?You started and you keep continuing

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

Endings are a story, every game before Tekken 4 only had openings and endings, are you saying every game before Tekken 4 didnt have a story ???? No ending in Tekken Tag are canon, a few flashbacks being present in T7 does not make the game canon, when the appearance of several characters make 0 sense and is never explained at any point. If Kage, Gill and Akuma dont have any mention in the story mode of SF5 then their appearance is non canon, yes.

Julia is only mentioned on the Tekken website, never in the game, same with every other non-canon DLC character. Ogre is dead before Tekken Tag 2, anything he does in Tekken Tag 2 is a contradiction to Tekken 3. His ending is non-canon as well. It was stated Jin killed Ogre back in Tekken 4 and in Tekken 6, yet he appears in Tag 2?.

Feng didnt die in Tekken 5 or 6, so since his ending and his appearance doesnt contradict anything, it's fine to apply the feat + his T5 ending was mentioned in T6.


Antvasima said that he agrees with me, after I presented to him my reasoning for not having Tekken Tag as canon. You were the one insulting me after I made my first post https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3729859#127

Why do I need to return after? You are not makign any sense

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Same debunked arguments, from now on i will preted you dont exist, you are a waste of time and stubborn individual


Also the website is official one with news and what not, a story is a story wheter in the game or not


His tag 2 ending i explained already, you just ignored it im not gonna repeat again


Your opinion on the flashbacks ammounts to 0, tag games had no story in it, most of the story in the main games were in the old manuals tag has none


You insulted after, dont try to lie and pretend you didnt


There is no rule a character needs to appear in the story mode, made up head canon rules dont apply cuz you say so, literally no one will agree with you if you said these 3 characters in SF are non canon cuz you claim so


Only one with no sense is you, think all you want, you wont change anything

 

[BlackDarkness679]

@Ant

One thing for you, as you did this in other threads too, i know you probably wont remember all threads in which you are present and what was discussed in each, but please dont just say yes to every little thing pro or counter pro for everything, same thing you did for Matthew in DMC threads were you said yes to all his stuff while others proved his arguments null or when he was the only one against the revisions


None of things @dootinmyhouse said to you have any relevance or proves him right, as these things were adressed and discussed long ago, all he does is bringing old stuff


Tag 2 is refferenced in the main story and to one of his characters it says a thing that only in tag 2 it existed, that shows the game at least is part of canon with certain things

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

you have yet to explain to me why we should accept Tag 2 as canon despite all the dozens of continuity errors it has, such as Ogre + Jun being boss characters in Tag 2 despite being dead for years before the game . You are claiming T7 using flashbacks from Tag 1+2 means both games are canon, yet DBZ anime isnt canon to DBS anime despite also using flashbacks from the Z anime. How do they differ?

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

Saying tag games dont have a story, only opening and endings is the same as saying T1,T2 & T3 dont have a story because they too only have opening and endings. This obiovusly is not the case.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

DBZ anime shows what manga shown too, whats so hard to understand?It didnt show anything the manga hadnt, it shown the fights with Vegeta, Frieza, Cell and Buu recap of the Z series how is this counter proof?

Ogre and Jun as bosses dont mean anything, any game has bosses, also i said this a lot and so Harada, Jun isnt dead

It has no errors....STOP using made up stuff! The dead/missing characters are just what ifs there and there is no story for why a tag tournament happens or anything either

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Talking to a wall here, simply just gonna pretend you arent here, your beyond ridiculous with your non sense and head canon

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

So the Z anime isnt canon because it doesnt show stuff the manga didnt? Did you forget about Gregory? Gregory never appeared in the manga, only in the DBZ anime, yet he also appears in Dragon Ball Super. So by your logic, that would make the Z anime canon to Super, yet it isnt. Kazuya , the narrator and Heihachi all state in several games that Kazuya did not appear in any tournament from Tekken 2- Tekken 4, meaning he could not had entered Tekken Tag 1, it doesnt matter if a 1 second flashback shows otherwise. Tekken Tag Tournament is never once mentioned in any other Tekken game, yet you want me to believe that the tournament did take place?? You're right, the dead/missing characters are what ifs, but so is Jack 6's endings and everyone else's because the entire Tekken Tag game is a what if.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

oh yeah forgot to ask, care to show when Tekken Tag's canoncity was brought up a long time ago? Because you keep mentioning it, yet dont link the thread.

 

[Antvasima]

@BlackDarkness

You need to make a serious effort to immediately stop with the insults. Doorinmyhouse is currently trying to get you banned and has people agreeing with him. If you continue, you will likely be removed. This goes for your future behaviour as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody experienced summarise the arguments here?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

@BlackDarkness

You need to make a serious effort to immediately stop with the insults. Doorinmyhouse is currently trying to get you banned and has people agreeing with him. If you continue, you will likely be removed. This goes for your future behaviour as well.

What insults have i said after AKM or anyone? In none of them after i said any insults, also is it gonna ignored what he says in his?

 

[Antvasima]

You made some (in my opinion not particularly severe) insults to Doorinmyhouse, and also have a previous warning. As I said, you need to shape up quickly or other staff members might ban you.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I dont see any insults after AKM told me or the others, but anyway, not gonna take that guy seriously here anymore after all his popr attempts ar denying

Also i told you a bit above about the deal with tag Ant, all he says against it has no relevance and others knowledgable already said yes including you before he came here

 

[Antvasima]

Well, just try to keep a polite tone to stay out of trouble, both here and in other threads.

Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, a summary would be appreciated here.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Tekken 7 story shows flashbacks of previous events from games (which includes tag and tag 2), meaning they are considered part of canon with some of its stuff, not saying literally everything in them is canon, since even in the main games not everything is either, but at least they are acknowledged of existing


The tag games have no story so they dont add anything contradictory, they got only openings and endings, Dark649 which is one of knowledgable members of this series that worked the most has it in his blog he made of the verse, things from both tag games counted for canon, the tag 1 opening and some tag 2 endings if i remember


A character in Tekken 7 in her story its said a thing that only in tag 2 it exists, more to support of the tag game existing in the series for its canon


The guy only counters are missing or dead characters appearing in these, yet nowhere says they are back in canon, they are added there as what ifs, which other fighters do too in their games, plus we ignore most games endings even from the canon titles as some are what ifs


Thats why i proposed way back in this thread for the tag games to be considered part of canon and the endings that dont contradict anything and are fine should be used

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I tried to keep it as short as i can