Tekken: Ghost from the past additions (P&A and resistances)

[BlackDarkness679]

As title says, no Tekken 8 stuff, thats gonna be a separate matter for later time, plus most stuff in that game just cements a couple of haxes presented here

Spoiler: Haxes for Mishimas/Devil Gene users

• Energy Manipulation and Durability Negation (used his ki to punch Heihachi to the chest all the way outside of his back with it, causing his heart to eventually stop beating)

• Energy Projection, Ice Manipulation and Fire Manipulation (can shoot lasers from their forehead, scales from Azazel and Jin, where the former can set others on fire with lasers, while the latter shown the capability of igniting fire out of his attacks, as well as freezing people in place)

• Electricity Manipulation, Paralysis and Limited Power Nullification (Mishimas can generate electricity, which was used before to stun people, they can also nullify energy based attacks like ki as well with it)

• Telekinesis (they can directly knock out, lift and choke people with it, blow things up from the inside, essentially negating durability and even toss out a meteor at them)

• Soul Absorption (Devil Gene users can absorb someone soul and add it to their own power)

• Dream Manipulation (taunted Jin in his mind when he was unconscious)

• Aura (Mishimas can generate auras out of their body)

• Forcefield Creation (can generate a barrier to shield from physical and energy based attacks)

• Enhanced Senses (scales from Jin, whom can sense other beings or energies, including somebody power and emotions)

• Immortality (Type 3) and Regeneration (Mid, scales from Jin, whom regenerated from getting gunned down and shot in the head and also from Azazel, whom can grow back limbs, even most of his head too)

• Possession (part of his devil was about to possess Jin unborn body)

• Wind Manipulation (scales from Jin, capable of generating gusts of wind this powerful)

• Shockwave Generation (Devil Gene users displayed the capability to generate shockwaves several times)

• Flight (can fly and levitate)

• Limited Technology Manipulation (Devil Gene users can affect robot beings with their lasers)

• Limited Invulnerability (can become invulnerable for a short moment against attacks, likely scales from Azazel as he got the same power as well)

• Healing (displayed the capability to heal his health when normally during battle or when charging)

• Invisibility (shown the ability to become invisible)

• Intangibility (Type 4, can phase through others like a ghost)

• Teleportation (teleports over short distances)

• Non-Physical Interaction (capable of punching Shin Akuma, even when he was going intangible)

• Self-Sustenance (Type 1) (didnt need air when in outer space)

Spoiler: Azazel stuff

-Higher-Dimensional Existence (stated that he exists on a higher plane of existence, above earthly laws and that filling the world with negative energy was gonna give him physical form)


-Paralysis and Fear Inducement and possibly Matter Manipulation (can paralyze an individual movements with one of his moves, his appearance can overwhelm those who see it and has the power to reduce beings to ashes, it also shown to be able to frighten others with his appearance)


-Large Size (Type 1, taller then about all characters in the series, many of whom are over 2 meters tall, like the bears)


-Summoning and Limited Durability Negation (capable of summoning boulders of crystal and scarabs, with the former he can still harm an opponent even when they are blocking attacks, with other normal moves not being able to do the same from him)


-Telepathy (spoke to Jin in his mind to fill the world with negative energy, he displayed this ability to others as well)


-Light Generation (can glow and generate blinding light)


-Magma Manipulation (caused a geologically impossible event to have magma start erupting throughout the vicinity of a village)


-Non-Corporeal (he was awakened in spirit form and then had to gain a physical form, also survived supposed death after his body was destroyed, but his spirit remained)


Limited Invulnerability (can make himself invulnerable to physical attacks for a short amount of time, even in the middle of his attacks)


-Flight (can fly and levitate)


-Corruption (Type 2, the dark purplish orb inside him can infect someone with the Devil Gene)


-Death Manipulation (characters who destroyed his body end up dying shortly after)

Spoiler: Resistances for Mishimas/Devil Gene users

• Electricity Manipulation (Mishimas dont seem to be affected by the electricity they generate or from natural lighting)

• Possession (were able to overcome the Devil Gene from controlling their mind and body)

• Soul Manipulation (scales from Heihachi, whom managed to resist Ogre absorbing his soul despite likely taking it from other fighters and died, as well as scaling from Jin, for still having the devil gene when Ogre tried the same on him and resisted having his Devil Gene taken away by Kazuya himself)

• Death Manipulation (scales from Heihachi, whom survived the raging demon by sheer durability from Akuma, as well as Jin, whom didnt die after killing Azazel and destroying his body in order to end him, which brings death to others who do so)

• Fear Inducement and possibly Matter Manipulation (scales from Lars and Jin, whom were being unaffected by Azazel appearance which can overwhelm those who see it and has the power to reduce beings to ashes and also shown to be able to frighten others with his appearance)

• Fire Manipulation (scales from Heihachi, whom was able to resist Jinpachi aura for quite a while till it was too much to handle it)

• Heat Manipulation (can resist heat from lava nearby, his body even survived a fall in lava, also scales from Jin, whom is capable of fighting Jinpachi in a volcanic like environment)

• Smoke Manipulation (arent bothered by the toxic smoke emanated from a volcano)

• Radiation Manipulation (scaling from Heihachi and Lars, whom have resisted Jacks, self destruction, with the Jacks running on Plutonium)

I will try in the following days to do for other characters as well here all their haxes, the above were easier as they share for the most part among themselves the same things and there are more of them

Agrees: DarkDragonMedeus (Staff), Shadow-Ragna, NaruRiasUzumaki

Disagrees:

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks fairly solid.

 

[Shadow-Ragna]

Looks solid and agree to it.

 

[NaruRiasUzumaki]

I agree with OP's stated.

 

[Theglassman12]

Existing on a higher plane than earthly laws sounds more like Type 4 Acausality than Higher Dimensional Existence since the laws of the human world just don’t apply to him.

Matter hax for Azazel doesn’t really tell me much beyond him having the power to reduce people to ashes, which can just be a result of his high AP rather than actual hax there.

Limited duraneg for the boulders doesn’t make any sense when it’s treated as still damaging them, so it’s just a stronger hit that they can’t block without getting hurt.

The rest looks fine.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Matter hax for Azazel doesn’t really tell me much beyond him having the power to reduce people to ashes, which can just be a result of his high AP rather than actual hax there.

Assumptions with no showing to be relating to his AP, especially when characters on par or surpassing him, dont show the power to hit so hard they turn to ash anything

Limited duraneg for the boulders doesn’t make any sense when it’s treated as still damaging them, so it’s just a stronger hit that they can’t block without getting hurt.

Another assumption with no basis, chip dmg in a game doesnt mean its just a stronger attack, guarding is meant to prevent dmg from any attack as long as you guardian against it, a move who bypasses that is simply negating all that

 

[Theglassman12]

Can you actually prove that this is a very specific ability he can do instead of assuming that’s the case? The burden of proof is on you that he can control matter to turn someone into ashes.

So you’re using the game mechanics of blocking taking no damage as evidence? Yeah no still not gonna agree with this as that’s not how abilities work.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Can you actually prove that this is a very specific ability he can do instead of assuming that’s the case? The burden of proof is on you that he can control matter to turn someone into ashes.

Under what premise it should be assumed its AP related when even fodders like soldiers are still in one piece from attacks of the strongest characters, with kill intention, it literally says its a power in the description

So you’re using the game mechanics of blocking taking no damage as evidence? Yeah no still not gonna agree with this as that’s not how abilities work.

Game mechanics....a better excuse wasnt possible to come up with? Under what premise a move that hurts you regardless of your guard is just a stronger hit when it comes to a video game character

 

[Theglassman12]

Because of it not remotely being elaborated as a specific ability like how Thanos’ snap in the MCU specifically disintegrates the target into ashes as oppose to it being an AOE nuke? That’s common sense.

A better reasoning couldn’t be possible to come up with for durability negation either? Again this entire argument stems from “blocking makes you take no damage”, which ignoring that this only stems from the gameplay itself and not any lore statements, yes this can be chalked up to the character being able to hit harder than the other characters if they take damage despite blocking.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Because of it not remotely being elaborated as a specific ability like how Thanos’ snap in the MCU specifically disintegrates the target into ashes as oppose to it being an AOE nuke? That’s common sense.

He has no AoE thing physically, also nobody assumes with a character stated they turn others into ash is AP related, you need visual proof you can do that with AP, which doesnt exist in verse, especially characters beyond his league

A better reasoning couldn’t be possible to come up with for durability negation either? Again this entire argument stems from “blocking makes you take no damage”, which ignoring that this only stems from the gameplay itself and not any lore statements, yes this can be chalked up to the character being able to hit harder than the other characters if they take damage despite blocking.

Its non sensical head canon, which has nothing to do with AP, especially since dura neg from other characters performed in the lore are now currently displayed in gameplay as doing chip dmg, which supports the fact its actual dura neg

 

[Theglassman12]

again, gonna need proof for these two being an actual thing in the story beyond some vague wording and game mechanics. If this is all the reasoning there is then I’m disagreeing with both of these abilities outright.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Isn't reducing people to ash should be deconstruction instead of matter manipulation?

I'm neutral about dura neg for the boulders per theglassman12's post, but the rest look fine to me.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

again, gonna need proof for these two being an actual thing in the story beyond some vague wording and game mechanics. If this is all the reasoning there is then I’m disagreeing with both of these abilities outright.

Its always nice to see you being incredibly stubborn and ignoring stuff to keep repeating the same old argument proven wrong

I dont need to prove anything else for something that literally says to have a power to reduce to ash someone, if it was via AP as you claim, it would have been displayed, yet surprise, its not the case

You clearly didnt even read what i said on this one, dura neg from cutscenes/story is implemented in gameplay now, done by doing that move as able to perform cheap dmg

Im not going to agree with unfounded reasonings against these two when they have no good basis

 

[Theglassman12]

And no elaboration on how someone being reduced to ashes remotely works. The lack of elaboration doesn’t help your case whatsoever

 

[BlackDarkness679]

And no elaboration on how someone being reduced to ashes remotely works. The lack of elaboration doesn’t help your case whatsoever

Dunno what elaboration is needed on a description saying their appearance frightens and has power to reduce to ash somebody

You act like the head canon of being AP is more logical yet that requires visual proof which is non existent and lacking

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

looks good

 

[Theglassman12]

The elaboration on it being an actual ability like how Thanos’ snap is as opposed to something very vague in of itself. If you can’t prove that at all then my point still stands so provide the context

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Went to get 2 quick translations on the phrase

"It has the power to burn any being to ashes."

"It has the power to turn all existence into ashes."

You still wanna wrongly assume its AP now? For your info anyway, i put is as a possibly in the P&A

 

[Theglassman12]

You do realize that first translation proves my point that it has nothing to do with Matter hax right? Burning someone to ashes is just the fire being strong enough to burn people away.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Yeah lets ignore how the rest say its matter hax, im getting tired of your constant stonewalling

 

[Theglassman12]

the rest also didn’t see the alternate translation of it saying it burns people to ashes, the fact you’re just appealing to popularity at this point doesn’t convince of your arguments, especially when you have like 1 staff approval atm for everything on the OP.

 

[Armorchompy]

I agree with glassman on the points of contention.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

saying it burns people to ashes

Same word which the translations tells other words like "reduce", "pulverize", "dissolve", "fade", but do tell how fire can remotely do that at all, you just stonewall, a habit you do on any CRT

 

[BlackDarkness679]

And quick google search disagrees with you as well

"It is impossible to burn the corpse of an adult to a state of only homogeneous ash not only on the fire, but also in special crematorium chambers"

 

[Theglassman12]

@BlackDarkness679 Ah yes, I’m the one stonewalling and not you, the person who refuses to elaborate on your point and expect anyone who disagrees to be stonewalling, right. Bring a better argument if you don’t want me to “stonewall” like you claim I am.

It’s almost like fire in fiction can be a lot stronger than the ones we see in real life, again not an argument for matter hax.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

It’s almost like fire in fiction can be a lot stronger than the ones we see in real life, again not an argument for matter hax.

Which needs proof it can do that, which none in the OP shown has

This exists, the character in question absorbed Azazel into himself

Grind: "reduce (something) to small particles"

But no....its clearly just stronk fire manip....it cant possibly be matter hax....

 

[Theglassman12]

Again, need elaboration on if he’s being literal about this as opposed to this being a metaphorical way of saying “I’ll beat you into a pulp”.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You claim you dont stonewall, yet you do this very thing as pointed out earlier, as you do on blazblue and kingdom hearts the same card pulled and i bet more others if i were to check

"Its via AP", "its fire manip", "its not literal", all your arguments throughout this thread, im tired of your assumptions and stonewall, you think just cuz you got staff role you cant be absolutely wrong?

The bio states its matter hax from his mere presence, character who absorbs him states he will do something which by definition points at matter hax, im not gonna take part in a back and forth with someone incredibly stubborn prolonging for no reason

An admin, higher ranking then you as staff, took part in more threads for this series then you did and agreed with all from here, not hard to tell which is holding more weight here

 

[Theglassman12]

So asking for evidence is me stonewalling, gotcha, good to know your definition of stonewalling isn’t the same as mine.

Are you actually going to bring scans to prove your point or are you just going to complain? Also I’ve never said I’m 100% correct so don’t put words into my mouth.

Yeah where does it say that his presence has matter hax? You wanna send that scan over because I don’t recall seeing anything like that.

Gotta love how you’re pulling an Appeal to Authority here right after you’re complaining to me about how I act like I’m always right just because I’m a staff member. I don’t care how many threads he partakes in, and staff position doesn’t matter when it comes to CRTs like this, Thread Mods and Admins have equal voting rights to these.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

So asking for evidence is me stonewalling, gotcha, good to know your definition of stonewalling isn’t the same as mine.

Evidence already handed and you come up with excuses left and right and no, stonewall in the sense of prolonging things for no reason, with other users saying the same thing about you

Are you actually going to bring scans to prove your point or are you just going to complain? Also I’ve never said I’m 100% correct so don’t put words into my mouth.

The very fact you continue this proves the point you try denying

Yeah where does it say that his presence has matter hax? You wanna send that scan over because I don’t recall seeing anything like that.

Nth time you dont read something and ignore, its in the OP, but given you wont bother to look up as always

"Its appearance overwhelms anyone who sees it, and it has the power to reduce any being to ashes."

 

[Theglassman12]

Ah yes, so applying standards is just me making excuses, perfect logic right there.

Yeah the scan that talks about the two feats as separate things entirely, not helping your case here and it burning people to ashes isn’t matter hax in the slightest, let alone deconstruction.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Ah yes, so applying standards is just me making excuses, perfect logic right there.

You dont apply anything, besides your personal opinion, not standards, miss me with all these donuts you try to sell here

Yeah the scan that talks about the two feats as separate things entirely, not helping your case here and it burning people to ashes isn’t matter hax in the slightest, let alone deconstruction.

"Its appearance overwhelms anyone who sees it, and it has the power to reduce any being to ashes."

Still waiting to see how long it takes you to read something and not be wrong as always, we have been over this above, words like pulverize or dissolve dont fall under fire manipulation, comprehend it

I stated earlier im not entertaining this clear stonewall from a staff with bad reputation among users

 

[Theglassman12]

The fact you’re resorting to bringing up some dumb drama about me (which is likely taking things out of context knowing my experience with this) tells me you don’t have an argument anymore, so I’ll consider this discussion over and call some staff members over at this point.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Maverick_Zero_X @Planck69 @UchihaSlayer96 your inputs here would be appreciated

 

[Armorchompy]

I stated earlier im not entertaining this clear stonewall from a staff with bad reputation among users

I will remind you that you have a whole two warnings for awful behavior in threads, whereas he has none. And I will warn you that you have acted in an unacceptable manner in this thread. You can do whatever you want with that information.

 

[Planck69]

You dont apply anything, besides your personal opinion, not standards, miss me with all these donuts you try to sell here

"Its appearance overwhelms anyone who sees it, and it has the power to reduce any being to ashes."

Still waiting to see how long it takes you to read something and not be wrong as always, we have been over this above, words like pulverize or dissolve dont fall under fire manipulation, comprehend it

I stated earlier im not entertaining this clear stonewall from a staff with bad reputation among users

We don't automatically assume this to be matter manipulation or deconstruction whatsoever, the burden of proof is on you to prove this. Glassman is right here and you're the one being wilfully obtuse and hostile in this thread. Do check your behaviour.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Reducing someone to ashes isn't inherently Matter Hax without further context, no. We don't grant that ability for such a statement alone, so I'm with Glass on that.

As for the limited dura neg, yeah, definite no on that one. Attacks causing chip damage when the opponent is blocking is a thing in fighting games in general, and not once has limited dura neg been granted for that. It's a game mechanic.

Also yeah, replace the Higher-Dimensional Existence with Type 4 Acausality. The latter seems to fit more, and the former requires far more evidence than just a simple "is on a higher plane of existence" statement. Being above the laws of the world fits Type 4 Acausality more

The rest seems okay. Also, chill on the attitude, seriously. It's not that serious.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

On second thought, I will admit to skimming. Burning to ashes is not on par with atomization or something and thus not matter hax. Just Heat manipulation. I also agree Type 4 Acausalitry makes more sense.

 

[Theglassman12]

So yeah, 3 thread mods, 1 admin and a calc member unanimously agrees that it’s not Matter hax, so everything we accept you can apply to the pages.

 

[KLOL506]

Dunno what elaboration is needed on a description saying their appearance frightens and has power to reduce to ash somebody

You act like the head canon of being AP is more logical yet that requires visual proof which is non existent and lacking

You need that shit to be at the molecular level to be remotely considered dura neg, normally speaking.

And even then, the description implies it to be a feat of... well... brute force, and not a side effect of some hax. So uh... yeah, no way this is dura neg. It explicitly needs to be stated to be a hax thing and not brute force.