Tekken CRT: Some Issues in Kazuya's Scaling

[Theglassman12]

Also if all you have is come here to stir things up like you always do

You're the last person to say this to anyone when you've been acting up towards any staff members and make random conspiracy theories out the ass, need I remind you that you've already gotten a warning with this behavior not that long ago, keep it up and you will be reported again.

 

[Antvasima]

Can everybody who are bickering here stop doing so, and try to be polite and respectful, so this situation does not deteriorate further, please.

 

[SamanPatou]

I believe we should at least consider the multiplier a possibility, we do it all the time after all. And again, does anyone know someone who understands spoken japanese?
Edit: I just remembered I know someone who does irl, so I'm asking her.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I believe we should at least consider the multiplier a possibility, we do it all the time after all. And again, does anyone know someone who understands spoken japanese?
Edit: I just remembered I know someone who does irl, so I'm asking her.

For one, I don't think the whataboutism works here. And even then, if the multipliers you're mentioning are like this one, I'd like to know which ones these are so I can advocate for their removal as well. I wouldn't even consider this multiplier a possibility.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Wouldn't cellular compounds that are ten times stronger imply a body that is ten times stronger?

I think this is the best argument for the multplier (assuming the translation was accurate), though it wouldn't neccessarily apply to speed.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Wouldn't cellular compounds that are ten times stronger imply a body that is ten times stronger?

I think this is the best argument for the multplier (assuming the translation was accurate), though it wouldn't neccessarily apply to speed.

Cellular compounds would just be one part of what determines one's strength, no? That uncertainty is why we can't reason an AP multiplier from this

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The ammount of reaching to go against genetic improvements not being a physical boost is beyond sad, we literally ignore the biological fact beings are all made up of cells which make up your body, with organs, skin, muscles and all that

Cellular compounds includes cells of the muscles becoming way more robust or even better then previously, which goes into increased strength for physicality, quicker tightening of said muscles along less use of energy that can make you faster with the speed, also their structure getting more resilient which means they can endure impacts greater then before

Experiments with cells have been brought up well before the movie in the series, to make devil humans for military use or mix your genes with others of incredible power to achieve levels past your previous state, let alone Kazuya stomping on Jin that damn easy while they tell you the devil gene gives a tenfold multiplier in the instance

How much are we beating around the idea its not a physical boost? Especially not for speed, it needs evidence that a certain statistic isnt going up with the rest of them, like Trunks buffed saiyan form clearly showing dura/AP go up but at the cost of being slower

 

[CloverDragon03]

Did I ever say it was not a physical boost? Correct Answer: No, I did not. It clearly is. It's just not a 10x one, for 2 reasons:

1. Cellular compounds are just one facet of all this
2. It's about said cellular compounds being 10x stronger than a normal human, not being 10x stronger than a previous form

You keep strawmanning me, beating around the bush with context that means nothing toward the actual multiplier number, and not actually addressing the problems at hand, instead resulting to petty insults. I won't entertain this discussion further if that's what this will amount to. Simple as

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You are the only one beating around the bush with your constant repeat of "its not x10 cuz yes", if the devil gene gives a boost in power under what interpretations is the x10 not reffering to that

"Just one facet of all this" under what proof? Like it or not you simply ignore the sheer fact cells enhacements improve physicals in the series overall, you have literally no argument around that then simply trying to make it like its not counting physicals for no reasons other then your opinion, nowhere says or implies physicals arent part of it

Again with this reaching, as if normal humans means strictly those who dont fight in tournaments, the human fighters are literally no different in any aspect, your only argument is simply that "they got superhuman feats" which is hardly any proof given fiction definition of normal for them is unlike ours, Jin literally says after losing their devil power they are just mere humans without it and guess what definitions or meanings of words say

"The phrase "mere human being" is a correct and usable expression in written English. It can be used to describe someone who is considered ordinary or unremarkable"

You are incredibly boring and tiring talk with it, with the repeating of irrelevancy and for the last time Kazuya vs Jin at the moment of the statement proves stats superiority, the claims it is not related is simply ignorance, there is no reason to assume either to be unrelated matters

 

[SamanPatou]

I've waited a while before replying because I was waiting my japanese friend's answer. She'll send me the sentence in characters soon, in the meanwhile she translated the statement as:

“Is this the real form of the Devil Factor?”
“It instantly activates the cells within the body.”
"The Devil Factor, a power that activates dozens of times more energy than an ordinary person.”

For one, I don't think the whataboutism works here. And even then, if the multipliers you're mentioning are like this one, I'd like to know which ones these are so I can advocate for their removal as well. I wouldn't even consider this multiplier a possibility.

Here I wasn't referring to multipliers specifically, but rather this than aren't straight up confirmed but leave room for the possibility of them being valid.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't think I follow. Our strictness on multipliers doesn't leave room for something to "possibly" be one. It either is or it isn't, because they're required to be stated multipliers to prior stats.

And this translation falls into the same problem as multiplying off of an ordinary person rather than off of the user's previous statistics.

 

[SamanPatou]

I might ask bother her better on the specifics of "ordinary person", but now it refers to energy, not cellular comunpound. Assuming it refers to "ordinary human" as a 10-B person and not "normal human with super strength" that is the norm in Tekken, what do we have to assume? That the Devil Gene makes you 9-C?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I might ask bother her better on the specifics of "ordinary person", but now it refers to energy, not cellular comunpound. Assuming it refers to "ordinary human" as a 10-B person and not "normal human with super strength" that is the norm in Tekken, what do we have to assume? That the Devil Gene makes you 9-C?

Wasn't it stated that Kazuya views literally everyone without a Devil Gene as a normal human?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Wasn't it stated that Kazuya views literally everyone without a Devil Gene as a normal human?

This statement isn't from Kazuya's PoV tho

I might ask bother her better on the specifics of "ordinary person", but now it refers to energy, not cellular comunpound. Assuming it refers to "ordinary human" as a 10-B person and not "normal human with super strength" that is the norm in Tekken, what do we have to assume? That the Devil Gene makes you 9-C?

I mean it just supports the fact that the Devil Gene makes a normal human superhuman - as has been shown many times. Keep in mind, too, that the way this is applied is incredibly arbitrary. That is, it's only applied to Super Devil Kazuya and up

Edit: Also, there's a clear contradiction in this translation given and the localization to begin with.

 

[SamanPatou]

This statement isn't from Kazuya's PoV tho

I mean it just supports the fact that the Devil Gene makes a normal human superhuman - as has been shown many times. Keep in mind, too, that the way this is applied is incredibly arbitrary. That is, it's only applied to Super Devil Kazuya and up

Well, by definition all humans not having the devil gene are regular humans, as they can't sprout wings, horns, additional eyes etc..., the verse doesn't make a clear distinction between average bystanders and fighters showcasing superhuman feats, they are just called humans.
Even in T8 when Kazuya and Jin erase each other's Devil Gene they call themselves regular humans, despite being superhumans anyway.

Whether it's applied to Super Devil Kazuya or not, in my view it still has to be accounted for.

Edit: Also, there's a clear contradiction in this translation given and the localization to begin with.

Well, we always look up at the original japanese material to solve dubious questions about localizations, which often take liberties with important details. One of the most infamous was Akuma's Raging Demon which switches from Death Manip to Soul Manip between the jp and eng version.
Without doxxing my friend, I can say she is japanese from Tokyo and to provide further proof without sharing screenshots I've asked her to type me the original text, so to have solid evidences not based on my word. She spends little time online, so she'll probably reply me tomorrow, but I wanted to bring the news forward in advance.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Even in that case, you'd be multiplying off of 7-A characters, which doesn't change any scaling at all. It absolutely doesn't make Super Devil Kazuya 10x stronger than Devil Kazuya like it does now. And then speed's just completely off the table

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Either you prove it doesnt boost speed or stop assuming with unsupported headcanons, Jin couldnt land any hit or dodge from him until he got to his own form that humbled Kazuya

And for the Nth time, reliance from an inaccurate rating of the base form to justify its not reliable to multiply from isnt helping you in any case, you scale top tiers from a bottom of the low tier feat

 

[CloverDragon03]

Either you prove it doesnt boost speed or stop assuming with unsupported headcanons, Jin couldnt land any hit or dodge from him until he got to his own form that humbled Kazuya

This doesn't prove a 10x speed boost, it just shows there's a speed boost to some unknown degree. Even the most generous interpretation would give a 10x strength increase and that's it (and even then, the way it's currently applied is very faulty; why is it multiplying by 10x from another devil form?)

And for the Nth time, reliance from an inaccurate rating of the base form to justify its not reliable to multiply from isnt helping you in any case, you scale top tiers from a bottom of the low tier feat

The 7-A scaling is what's currently accepted. Therefore, that's what I'll be using, because this thread is not an avenue to try and change that. It's that simple

 

[BlackDarkness679]

This doesn't prove a 10x speed boost, it just shows there's a speed boost to some unknown degree. Even the most generous interpretation would give a 10x strength increase and that's it (and even then, the way it's currently applied is very faulty; why is it multiplying by 10x from another devil form?)

Do you even remotely read the stuff you write before sending them? It said x10 and shows physical superiority overall in the scene, you cant seem to understand the devil gene literally says a multiplier over that scene

Unknown boost my foot, even now you just ignore over and over and you say you dont like being known as a lowballer and such, you clearlydont help your case in the slightest the way you debate here and acting on that

Once again, either you prove speed isnt included or dont talk things you have no idea on, is that simple

The 7-A scaling is what's currently accepted. Therefore, that's what I'll be using, because this thread is not an avenue to try and change that. It's that simple

And i simply do not care if that was accepted, its not accurate indexing of their base form, i go by the games and other media they have, which shows far better scaling and feats then going from upscaling of a much lower character then them and a rating in which a low tier in the verse stands at, you know 0 of the series and go by what you have in front of you to argue about it

 

[Antvasima]

Saman makes sense to me here.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Do you even remotely read the stuff you write before sending them? It said x10 and shows physical superiority overall in the scene, you cant seem to understand the devil gene literally says a multiplier over that scene

Unknown boost my foot, even now you just ignore over and over and you say you dont like being known as a lowballer and such, you clearlydont help your case in the slightest the way you debate here and acting on that

Once again, either you prove speed isnt included or dont talk things you have no idea on, is that simple

You're just repeating yourself over and over while spewing whatever insults or accusations you can think of. None of this even implies that there is a 10x speed boost. We need that to be stated, and even the most generous interpretation of the statement only suggests an AP boost - not a speed boost.

And i simply do not care if that was accepted, its not accurate indexing of their base form, i go by the games and other media they have, which shows far better scaling and feats then going from upscaling of a much lower character then them and a rating in which a low tier in the verse stands at, you know 0 of the series and go by what you have in front of you to argue about it

Sorry to say, but you kinda have to care, because that's what we'll be going off of unless something changes. You can't just use your own personal scaling if that's not accepted

Saman makes sense to me here.

Even still, if we want to say the Devil Gene is multiplying energy by dozens of times from a normal human - then we'd still need to remove the FTL ratings, because the statement suggests nothing about speed.

We'd also need to remove it from Super Devil Kazuya's justification, because that's a haphazard application of the multiplier. This is because the multiplier would be multiplying off of 7-A human characters, which hardly changes scaling considering the devil forms are High 6-A as is. Right now, it's multiplying off of another devil form, which goes completely against what the multiplier suggests

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You're just repeating yourself over and over while spewing whatever insults or accusations you can think of. None of this even implies that there is a 10x speed boost. We need that to be stated, and even the most generous interpretation of the statement only suggests an AP boost - not a speed boost.

Either you prove speed isnt part of the boost or simply shut up, also from the translation above, energy in the body now doesnt affect your speed? You just dig yourself over this debate for the worst

You keep saying nothing proves it as speed boost and your only argument is to the scene at hand is "hurr durr unknown speed", how many times will you repeat these low quality arguments? Which nobody agrees with you on, you are boring and tiring

Also cut your victim card, you werent insulted once and actual insults are things like "dumbass" , "idiot" etc, you werent called anything of sort, you are literally one of the most sensible people seen on the internet who takes anything said to him as an insult and victimizes himself over

Accusations which you try to frame as out of nowhere and uncalled for are justified, you lowball and ignore any sirt of argument against you, just repeating like a broken record and choose to insert what you believe ignoring the rest and not just me, all others who tell you arent cooking here at all

Sorry to say, but you kinda have to care, because that's what we'll be going off of unless something changes. You can't just use your own personal scaling if that's not accepted

"Personal scaling", its not my personal scaling its the actual scaling in the series, which once again i will repeat, you dont know anything at all and im not obliged to care of it or take it seriously just cuz its there

Especially when you try to justify against the multiplier cuz of 7-A and High 6-A, with former as wrong, you scale them off a lower character performing the feat, as if thats suppose to be the limit of the higher ones

The suggestion by Saman with base forms being backscaled from multiplier was one of the best suggestions heard so far

Even still, if we want to say the Devil Gene is multiplying energy by dozens of times from a normal human - then we'd still need to remove the FTL ratings, because the statement suggests nothing about speed.

UES exists and says no to you, the devil gene clearly is stated it boosts by that ammount and you try to say it doesnt when it does and tells that in front of your eyes, FTL doesnt go anywhere

We'd also need to remove it from Super Devil Kazuya's justification, because that's a haphazard application of the multiplier. This is because the multiplier would be multiplying off of 7-A human characters, which hardly changes scaling considering the devil forms are High 6-A as is. Right now, it's multiplying off of another devil form, which goes completely against what the multiplier suggests

Yeah no, only change happening is that the Super Devil form isnt where the multiplier starts from, it aint getting yeeted as a whole

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I will come up with the only solution as of now, till its tackled much later in a better way, with the following:

The devil gene is told in both the translation from Saman and the one curently had in the profiles that it increases by a certain ammount, 10 or dozens (dozen is 12 numerically, the plural would suggest minimum 24) respectively

Since the issues on the tier difference from base form to devil form is constantly brought up, a middle ground is the following, devil amps, which is the user still being in base form but uses the devil gene power while remaining in that state, we seen it several times done, Jin vs Azazel in Tekken 6, Jin vs Heihachi and Ogre/True Ogre in Tekken Bloodline and Kazuya vs Heihachi in Tekken 7 and even in Tekken 8 with Jin vs Hwoarang and Reina

Both Jin and Kazuya turned the tides of the fights once they had the amps used and their opponents were unable to keep up with them like before or were clearly outmatched at that point, as such the tier will be 7-A, [insert multiplied rating from base] with devil amps and as such the multiplier is in use and fixes the issue on the Super Devil form being above Devil form from that

 

[Antvasima]

Even still, if we want to say the Devil Gene is multiplying energy by dozens of times from a normal human - then we'd still need to remove the FTL ratings, because the statement suggests nothing about speed.

We'd also need to remove it from Super Devil Kazuya's justification, because that's a haphazard application of the multiplier. This is because the multiplier would be multiplying off of 7-A human characters, which hardly changes scaling considering the devil forms are High 6-A as is. Right now, it's multiplying off of another devil form, which goes completely against what the multiplier suggests

@SamanPatou

What do you think?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Either you prove speed isnt part of the boost or simply shut up, also from the translation above, energy in the body now doesnt affect your speed? You just dig yourself over this debate for the worst

Energy is used as a measure of AP (take the units of Joules, for instance). There is a speed increase, but nothing suggests it's by 10x. We cannot reach that conclusion, and I won't shut up just because you say I should, because I strongly believe in the accuracy of this

You keep saying nothing proves it as speed boost and your only argument is to the scene at hand is "hurr durr unknown speed", how many times will you repeat these low quality arguments? Which nobody agrees with you on, you are boring and tiring

"Which nobody agrees with you on" and that's why 3 evaluating staff agree with the revision, right?

Boosts to AP don't automatically equate to the same boost in speed unless it's stated that speed was boosted by the same amount. Multiplying energy by dozens of times compared to a normal human suggests an AP boost from where the humans scale, but "energy" isn't equivalent to speed. Take kinetic energy for instance. A 12x boost to KE comes from a much lower boost to speed. So while we can say there's a boost to speed from what we're shown, we can't exactly say it's the same boost to speed as it is to AP.

(Also yes, I'm more convinced of the multiplier to AP being legit with what Saman brought forward, but I just don't think the way it's applied is consistent with what the Devil Gene amp is)

Also cut your victim card, you werent insulted once and actual insults are things like "dumbass" , "idiot" etc, you werent called anything of sort, you are literally one of the most sensible people seen on the internet who takes anything said to him as an insult and victimizes himself over

I don't need to be directly called anything like that to point out the fact that you're being hostile as a result of me disagreeing with you. It's not too much to ask to have a civil discussion

Accusations which you try to frame as out of nowhere and uncalled for are justified, you lowball and ignore any sirt of argument against you, just repeating like a broken record and choose to insert what you believe ignoring the rest and not just me, all others who tell you arent cooking here at all

Regardless of how you feel, that has no place in this thread. If you feel THAT strongly about it, I encourage you to take it up with HR

"Personal scaling", its not my personal scaling its the actual scaling in the series, which once again i will repeat, you dont know anything at all and im not obliged to care of it or take it seriously just cuz its there

Especially when you try to justify against the multiplier cuz of 7-A and High 6-A, with former as wrong, you scale them off a lower character performing the feat, as if thats suppose to be the limit of the higher ones

There's no such thing as "the actual scaling" with how subjective power scaling is. If you take issue with the 7-A scaling, you're more than welcome to make a thread to change that. But in this current moment, we're arguing from that, because that's not what's being revised. You're on VSBW, so you argue based on VSBW ratings unless you're trying to change them, which this thread is not for

The suggestion by Saman with base forms being backscaled from multiplier was one of the best suggestions heard so far

Based on the current scaling, I can't agree with that because you're going from scaling to a 7-A feat to scaling to High 6-A without a new feat. Not to mention, backscaling off of a "dozens of" multiplier gets tricky because it could be any number of dozens when you're trying to backscale, whereas with upscaling there's a conservative minimum (that being at least 24x). It's very tricky to backscale when the multiplier isn't specific

UES exists and says no to you, the devil gene clearly is stated it boosts by that ammount and you try to say it doesnt when it does and tells that in front of your eyes, FTL doesnt go anywhere

UES doesn't automatically make it the same multiplier to speed. It needs to specifically also multiply speed by that same amount

Yeah no, only change happening is that the Super Devil form isnt where the multiplier starts from, it aint getting yeeted as a whole

I agree with changing how the multiplier is applied now, yes.

I will come up with the only solution as of now, till its tackled much later in a better way, with the following:

The devil gene is told in both the translation from Saman and the one curently had in the profiles that it increases by a certain ammount, 10 or dozens (dozen is 12 numerically, the plural would suggest minimum 24) respectively

Since the issues on the tier difference from base form to devil form is constantly brought up, a middle ground is the following, devil amps, which is the user still being in base form but uses the devil gene power while remaining in that state, we seen it several times done, Jin vs Azazel in Tekken 6, Jin vs Heihachi and Ogre/True Ogre in Tekken Bloodline and Kazuya vs Heihachi in Tekken 7 and even in Tekken 8 with Jin vs Hwoarang and Reina

Both Jin and Kazuya turned the tides of the fights once they had the amps used and their opponents were unable to keep up with them like before or were clearly outmatched at that point, as such the tier will be 7-A, [insert multiplied rating from base] with devil amps and as such the multiplier is in use and fixes the issue on the Super Devil form being above Devil form from that

Honestly, if this is a thing (I'm taking your word for it, but I don't know Tekken lore as well so scans would help), I'd be happy with this suggestion. With the current scaling, it'd be something like: "7-A, 6-C with the Devil Gene"

 

[Antvasima]

I will come up with the only solution as of now, till its tackled much later in a better way, with the following:

The devil gene is told in both the translation from Saman and the one curently had in the profiles that it increases by a certain ammount, 10 or dozens (dozen is 12 numerically, the plural would suggest minimum 24) respectively

Since the issues on the tier difference from base form to devil form is constantly brought up, a middle ground is the following, devil amps, which is the user still being in base form but uses the devil gene power while remaining in that state, we seen it several times done, Jin vs Azazel in Tekken 6, Jin vs Heihachi and Ogre/True Ogre in Tekken Bloodline and Kazuya vs Heihachi in Tekken 7 and even in Tekken 8 with Jin vs Hwoarang and Reina

Both Jin and Kazuya turned the tides of the fights once they had the amps used and their opponents were unable to keep up with them like before or were clearly outmatched at that point, as such the tier will be 7-A, [insert multiplied rating from base] with devil amps and as such the multiplier is in use and fixes the issue on the Super Devil form being above Devil form from that

@SamanPatou

We need your evaluation for this as well.

 

[Mephistus]

Wasn't it stated that Kazuya views literally everyone without a Devil Gene as a normal human?

Tekken 6 Prologue
"Jin Kazama is an individual under the control of Devil Gene.

His power has gone beyond that of a regular human being, and rivals that of a demon."

Contextually, I can get behind the AP multiplier .

Speed multiplier needs to be accounted for in a different way than the statement or just labelled as higher, unless specifics are given, I'm fine with that part being downgraded thus far.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Bump (can't really engage but just wanna make sure this doesn't die)

 

[CloverDragon03]

Honestly, if this is a thing (I'm taking your word for it, but I don't know Tekken lore as well so scans would help), I'd be happy with this suggestion. With the current scaling, it'd be something like: "7-A, 6-C with the Devil Gene"

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @Catzlaflame @Antvasima @SamanPatou Calling you guys since you've commented on this thread. What do you think of this proposal? Bear in mind, though, that the speed will still be downgraded from FTL due to a lack of proof of the Devil Gene providing the same multiplier to speed

 

[Antvasima]

I will wait to see what the others think.

 

[Theglassman12]

If the Devil gene does have an in canon multiplier with strength, then sure looks good to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[SamanPatou]

Apologies to everyone, I've been busy irl and I also traveled to France for a few days.
While we are at it, I'm leaving here the japanese sentence for everyone to translate at please:
これがデビル因子の正体？
体内細胞を瞬時に活性化。
常人の数十倍のエネルギーを発動する力、デビル因子。

I haven't really grasped BlackDarkness's proposal, as I'm not sure to which form he refers too. You mean instances of them tapping into devil power without physically transforming into their devil forms?

Because as of now, we are at an impasse: Devil Forms and comparable characters (Akuma, Super Heihachi...) must necessarily scale to a minimum of High 6-A because of Devil Jin's feat. You might argue this Devil Jin is stronger than the Devil Jin from previous games, such as Tekken 3, but at the same time very little time passes from each game, save for the huge timeskip at the beginning.

Backscaling the Devil Gene would make the characters High 6-A regardless, even if we go by a /24 (following the minimum interpretation from the dozens of times). I see the incredulity and kinda feel it too, but we also have to remember these characters already upscale from the 7-A ones by a wide margin, and so far it was used for a lack of higher feats. Collecting instances of them (Base Jin, Base Kazuya, Heihachi...) proving themselves consistently above the 7-A characters would already help.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't believe characters with feats topping at 7-A should be backscaling to High 6-A, no. All you're saying is well and good, but that's a massive gap

 

[SamanPatou]

I know, but right now the characters who would become High 6-A (without multiplier) already upscale from the one who did the 7-A feat (Jack-X iirc, one of them anyway) and those on its level.

 

[CloverDragon03]

That doesn't really matter. It's not such an upscale that warrants these characters being millions of times stronger than them

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Apologies to everyone, I've been busy irl and I also traveled to France for a few days.
While we are at it, I'm leaving here the japanese sentence for everyone to translate at please:
これがデビル因子の正体？
体内細胞を瞬時に活性化。
常人の数十倍のエネルギーを発動する力、デビル因子。

I used deepl just to check up real quick, its not any different from the one given above earlier by that friend of yours

I haven't really grasped BlackDarkness's proposal, as I'm not sure to which form he refers too. You mean instances of them tapping into devil power without physically transforming into their devil forms?

Yes, which i pointed where they occured

Because as of now, we are at an impasse: Devil Forms and comparable characters (Akuma, Super Heihachi...) must necessarily scale to a minimum of High 6-A because of Devil Jin's feat. You might argue this Devil Jin is stronger than the Devil Jin from previous games, such as Tekken 3, but at the same time very little time passes from each game, save for the huge timeskip at the beginning.

Shin Akuma and Ascended Heihachi are scaling to the Super Devil forms, which are clearly above regular Devil forms that are at High 6-A at it stands now, if not obvious by the fact, Akuma and Heihachi never used their highest points to the regular ones unlike with the Super ones

Tekken 3 till Tekken 8 is a 3 years gap in the timeline 2 being only between 3rd and 4th game, with no indication of power increase, besides clearly obvious ones as Paul who are seen and shown to be the case

Backscaling the Devil Gene would make the characters High 6-A regardless, even if we go by a /24 (following the minimum interpretation from the dozens of times). I see the incredulity and kinda feel it too, but we also have to remember these characters already upscale from the 7-A ones by a wide margin, and so far it was used for a lack of higher feats. Collecting instances of them (Base Jin, Base Kazuya, Heihachi...) proving themselves consistently above the 7-A characters would already help.

Since in this thread that isnt a topic of discussion as stated by OP and im gonna go over it in the future i had no more desire to talk over it under these circumstances, hence why i suggested the middle ground which solves this CRT issue at hand

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I don't believe characters with feats topping at 7-A should be backscaling to High 6-A, no. All you're saying is well and good, but that's a massive gap

I will say only this on the following comment to clarify overall to others, the feat in question is from a mid tier, which is also downplayed, as its not 7-A at best

Mishimas are top tiers and even when they arent in their best shape, they still one shot several of these mid tier as they became mass produced later, even their successor still get one shot by lesser characters then top tiers easily

So this claim of topping at 7-A is wrong and the constant reply of "they are rated as such on the wiki" is no proof of support, changes happen often to profiles across all verses, as its not the top tiers best, its the mid tiers best and even that isnt accurately rated in actuality, regardless of it changed from before

 

[CloverDragon03]

I only have what's currently accepted to go off of. I'm not at all against a CRT that upgrades higher tier characters. There would be a precedent, given that they're one-shotting the Jack-6's. Though, I don't agree that the 7-A+ calc is downplayed. It's about as concrete as it gets